What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

nippononly · March 2010

Doesn't matter - they would be a blast! Do you think they could keep it under $18K? I assume they would be built in Mexico.

ateixeira · March 2010

I don't think so.

It would slot below the GTI, not not below the Golf.

The GTI is $24k, so I bet they would have to cut some costs just to keep it at $19,999.

bumpy · April 2010

is going to be a FWD smart with a third seat and a CVT. No manual in sight.

ateixeira · April 2010

Price? MPG? Not yet I suppose?

stever · April 2010

Don't remember seeing a price.

"It's front-wheel drive, powered by a 1.3-liter, 90-horsepower engine and should get around 38 mpg on the highway."

Note in the comments that people wonder who would want to drive it on the highway - so, what's the city mpg? 34?

2011 Scion iQ: A Smarter Smart? (Inside Line)

ateixeira · April 2010

If they price it right it will kill the ForTwo in terms of sales.

I just hope they don't do this:

Base price: $9999
Wheels: $1000
Tires: $500
A/C: $800
Mirrors: $500
etc.

plekto · April 2010

I think that's a typo - is should get that combined and easily get in the 40-45mpg range highway.

alltorque · April 2010

? MPG? Not yet I suppose?

Over here in UK it's known as the Toyota iQ.............no Scion brand here.

The 1.0 ltr / 67bhp minimotor gives an average of 65.7mpg, (Imperial), which looks like circa 55mpg US. Retail price starts at £9974.

The 97bhp version shows 58.7mpg, (Imperial), or 49mpg US and retails from £11260. In both cases an Auto 'box is shown as a £1000 option.

Hope that helps.

bumpy · April 2010

I bet it's dumbed-down for the EPA. The smart can actually get 50 mpg highway in the real world, but the EPA says 41.

ateixeira · April 2010

That seems high but I know that US prices are always lower.

nippononly · April 2010

and hey, even at the base price you get the standard "world's first" rear window curtain airbag! :-)

I'm sure this thing will hit 50 mpg on the highway, but without a manual there won't be one in my driveway. This is exactly what I feared would happen to all the manuals in the lower-priced Japanese models - phased out in favor of the damn motorboating CVT.

The iQ looks pretty cool the way they have it set up in Europe, but here it will be just one more ultra-cheap Toyota where everything costs extra and most of the best features will be entirely unavailable. Typical Toyota.

By contrast, I was reading a bit more about the Mazda2 today, which sounds very interesting, and will be here this summer. The Touring trim is expected to sell starting at $16K and will include everything I would want including ESC and all the safety stuff as well as cruise, keyless, power package etc.

I think the subcompact field is about to balloon so much that micros like the ForTwo and the iQ will not be able to gain any traction, just because of their price.

stever · April 2010

And I thought driving the Alcan back when it was all gravel in a Bug was bad (I've done the Dempster, but that was in the summer).

Ice Road Truckin in a Smart ForTwo (Wired)

explorerx4 · April 2010

the old taurus has a wider feel than a fusion, but the fusion feels taller.

explorerx4 · April 2010

i'm over 6 feet and can fit in front or back of my 07 fusion without changing the front seat position. it is one of the reasons i bought it.
i'm a little confused since this is about subcompacts.
i could not fit in the back seat of the focus i traded in for the fusion.

ateixeira · April 2010

Fusion is very roomy, wider inside than it looks outside, too.

ateixeira · April 2010

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100406/OEM/100409931/1193

The new Smart ForFour?

nippononly · April 2010

A rebadged Twingo? It had better have the same price as the ForTwo, or even less. Way too much competition in the subcompact arena in the U.S. 12 months from now for this to make it.

ateixeira · April 2010

The article hinted future Smarts may share that platform, so yes, basically.

fezo · April 2010

The Smart has to be the most misnamed vehicle in history!

ghulet · April 2010

.....I was thinking that yesterday. I just can't imagine, unless parking or otherwise not taking up space is your ONLY priority, why anyone would buy a Smart ForTwo, frankly. Saw one yesterday (yellow, with male in driver's seat, female shotgun) with a white top. Ick. They're no cheaper and use no less fuel than your average cheapo car (base Yaris, Fit or Versas), they just can't hold more than two people, nor any luggage.

snakeweasel · April 2010

Actually they do use less fuel than any other car except hybrids. And as a second commuter car how many seats and how much space do you need?

ateixeira · April 2010

Premium fuel offsets a lot of that advantage, though.

ghulet · April 2010

....I still can't imagine one if you have kids or do much highway travelling, even as a second car. And as a second/train car, I can think of better options (something used). And while I'm aware that they're rated at 41mpg highway, I think most tests (magazines, etc.) have shown that it doesn't do nearly what it claims (though that's not unique to Smart, of course). I guess I just don't like them, though if I were single, lived somewhere like NYC or SF, where parking is next to impossible, they make a lot more sense.

ateixeira · April 2010

I have a Miata, not as a 2nd car, but actually as a 3rd car (in a 2-driver family).

It's too impractical for me to have a 2 seater as my only car, even if my wife has another car.

Even with just 2 of us, last night we went to the grocery store and had to limit the amount of stuff we got. No space!

A lot of times I have to pick up the kids, wife is busy, so I drop the Miata off and home and take my minivan.

kyfdx · April 2010

Get rid of of one of those kids! You'll save money, in any number of ways..

snakeweasel · April 2010

There still is an advantage and it is still good. Also as prices rise the difference between premium and regular percentage wise will shrink.

snakeweasel · April 2010

I can't remember anytime when both me and the wife had to have more than two seats in our car at the same time. Even when we had kids, a little foresight would be needed but not two sedans.

explorerx4 · April 2010

guess you never had kids that played sports or had a birthday party away from the house. we also have a pretty big extended family. that's our normal.

ghulet · April 2010

While, as a sorta-single guy in the city, I don't regularly have a bunch of people in my car, but....tell ya what, I'm not willing to give up two or three seating positions to (ostensibly) save 5-10 mpg, sorry. And my extended family, just on Mom's side=still two grandparents, eight aunts and uncles, 24 cousins and I don't know how many second cousins. Plus lotsa friends, and occasionally we want to carpool to go out, or they or I need rides. MUST have seats, I guess is what I'm sayin'.

nippononly · April 2010

the ForTwo makes a lot of sense, I think. I would use a 2-seater for my commute car. But it won't be a Smart unless they put a manual transmission in it sometime in the future.

ateixeira · April 2010

Can you turn off the front passenger air bag in a Smart?

If so at least you could take one kid in a pinch.

The Miata has that and I've used it.

bumpy · April 2010

The passenger seat has a weight sensor in it. I've set the seat belt chime off a few times stacking water bottles and such in it.

bumpy · April 2010

I'm a bit surprised that no one yet has made a kit to retrofit the smart transmission to a full manual. I don't think it would be especially difficult; biggest problem might be having the shift pattern backwards or something.

ingvar · April 2010

BMW 135i is a perfect commute car. Easy to park in a city and perfect performance and fun to drive. It has only 1 disadvantage - price.

ateixeira · April 2010

The back seat is also tiny.

2+2 is probably better than just 2 seats, I suppose. In a pinch I could pick up both kids.

I looked at a 128i convertible but it would have cost $10 grand more than a Miata, and the back seat is tight even for my kids (ages 10 and 7):

PS That front seat is not all the way back, far from it

nippononly · April 2010

The 135i gets about 24 mpg, which is absolutely unacceptable to me in a commute car.

I bet it's a blast as a weekend car though. :-)

ateixeira · April 2010

Is the 128i any better?

Both on premium, too.

My Miata gets about 27-28mpg. Premium is recommended but not required.

nippononly · April 2010

My guess is the 128i is a couple of points better than the 135, but I may have been a couple of points optimistic in saying the 135i would make 24 mpg as a commute car.

I wouldn't use a Miata as a commute car either, but if I could only fit in it properly, it would make the perfect weekend car! :-)

ghulet · April 2010

plus, other than us gearhead-types, who the hell is gonna buy a $35k BMW as a 'commuter' or 'second' car (unless it's in a movie, and they also have the bucks to buy one for their teenager, too, while they're at it)? Nobody.

I know I'm being a hater, but also the fact that the Smart doesn't even offer a real manual trans is strike one, two and three for me. Let's say I can go out and buy a Versa, Aveo, Fit or Yaris (none of which I'm in love with, but still) with a proper manual trans, A/C, power windows/locks and a basic stereo for $15k or less (which is certainly possible) versus spending the same on a ForTwo, why wouldn't I? Again, unless the amount of space it takes up is the most important thing, I don't get it. The fact that they're totally geeky-looking doesn't help my opinion, and I don't even care about those things, usually. But I care a lot less if I don't have a payment book.

lilengineerboy · April 2010

The tiny Toyota is cute to me (Aygo? Igo? you know the one I mean), as is the Mazda2. The Fiesta looks like a 2/3rds scale real car, although its basically the same size as the 5dr Focus of a few years ago. I don't really like the idea of any of them (for different reasons) in my life right now (especially in Michigan), but if I was back in Santa Barbara, a Mini convertible would be mighty nice.
There are a fleet of Fiat 500s that I see regularly on I94 (all have "m" manufacturer plates), and I don't know if that is going to be a hot ticket or not. I don't see any Smarts (occasionally I see one around Ann Arbor, always a diesel with Canadian plates).

kyfdx · April 2010

My lease is up in July... and, my son just got his first car...that seats five..

So, if I need to take a bunch of his friends somewhere, then we'll just take his car..

I'm actually considering a MINI, as well... At least that way, there are a couple of emergency seats.. Even considered a two-seater, but can't really afford the one I want........

As far as MPG? Filled up my wife's 260hp X3 tonight.. over 22 mpg on the last tankful. I think a 128i is rated for 28 mpg highway.. No doubts that it could do that, easy..

ateixeira · April 2010

Just remove the dead pedal, there's more room than you think. You can also put spacers to move the gas pedal back a bit.

I modified my dead pedal to sit about 1/2" farther back, but the gas pedal is unmodified. Some owners go extreme and actually cut part of the bottom of the gas pedal off and move it back a full inch. It's crazy. :surprise:

scwmcan · April 2010

As I now own a smart as a commuter car , I will agree that it is not for everyone, I got mine because I went from no commute to 60 miles one way. Of course being in canada I went for a used diesel instead of the gas model (I have to agree the fuel savings for the gas model don't out weigh the disadvantages of the car). For me going from a Mazda 3 sport to the diesel smart my fuel went from $100/week to less that $50 per week) so for me it made sense. Of course we stillhave another Mazda 3 for when we need a bigger car. The smart handles my half highway half backroads commute very well, and thee have been no times that I feel unsafe or underpowered with the car (as a matter of fact I still manage to out acellerate 90% of traffic on town,) even with the even lower powered diesel. So no it may not be for you but in some trims at least it makes sense for some peoplke.
Scott

lilengineerboy · April 2010

I went for a used diesel instead of the gas model

Uh, yeah. That is kind of the point. We don't have the diesel in the USA so for most people, its not so "Smart."

nippononly · April 2010

I think a 128i is rated for 28 mpg highway.. No doubts that it could do that, easy

Well sure, OK, so it would probably do about 25 mpg in the commute, maybe 26, because of all the daily cold starts. Which means one might hope for 23 or 24 in the 135i. But of course, as mentioned above, most people including me do not have $35K for their commute or second car (and for me 24 and 26 are both unacceptable mpg numbers for my commute car).....right now the best choice for a commute car that is also a driver's car is the Golf TDI. Great mileage, at least reasonably fun to drive. But it costs $24K, so price is once again a killer for me for a commute car. Which leaves me with the Fit or the Mini (and the price is edging on killing the Mini for me as well).

So I have high hopes for all the models coming out this year: Mazda2, Fiesta, CRZ, Fiat 500, Nissan Juke, heck perhaps the Toyota iQ, there has to be SOMETHING there that will up the game of the subcompacts. And wouldn't it just be a TREAT if VW brought the Polo TDI here....

kyfdx · April 2010

My Impreza is rated 27 highway.... and, I think you know how I do with that..

So, I think I could actually average 28 mpg on my commute.. I can live with that... Just think of all the fun I'll have!

kyfdx · April 2010

Stopped by the MINI dealership today.... getting the bug..

26/34 for an -S-

28/37 for a base Cooper...

explorerx4 · April 2010

years ago, my wife drove a mini and wanted one, but practicality ruled, so she bought an escape. i spent some time building my dream 'mini' and even more time playing that racing game they had.

iluvmysephia1 · April 2010

that Charlize Theron did all of her own stunt-driving in the Mini-Mobile (the old one and the new world order Mini) in the movie with Mark Wahlberg and Edward Norton called 'The Italian Job.' I liked the movie so much that I bought it.

The makers of the movie wanted to go underground the city of Los Angeles. The city of LA made things rough on them. They "made" them turn all 18 of the Mini-Coopers made by BMW in to all-electric propulsion Mini-Coopers. Couldn't have rigs that were that combustible in underground LA. The movie is quite entertaining and the scenes with the Mini-Coopers are ever-so-cool to view. I recommend ya get yer copy of 'The Italian Job' for yer viewing enjoyment if you at all like the BMW Mini-Cooper. You'll be glad ya did.

plekto · April 2010

My Impreza is rated 27 highway.... and, I think you know how I do with that..

And my Dad's Park Avenue is rated at 29 highway... It's 3800lbs, no less.

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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