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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    She said she would drop by today to chat, but I was busy. Maybe I'll seek her out tomorrow and ask.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    edited October 2010
    smart is going to sell a rebadged Nissan hatchback in the US in about a year. Supposed to be something "like a Versa", the rendering looks like a restyled K13 March/Micra.

    image
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2010
    Update: my friend had the Fiesta for 7 days when it would not go into reverse and eventually stalled in the middle of the street. She had to get it towed to the dealer. Not good.

    First they said it was some wiring that got too hot and was damaged.

    They changed that but it didn't help, the computer was fried.

    They changed that and it still didn't help, so now they are replacing the entire transmission.

    They gave her a loaner for now (Sentra), but she's had the loaner longer than she's had the car, and she's still making payments. Bummer.

    She went to meet the GM of the dealer today, and I advised her to ask for either a new car, or at the very least a 100k mile warranty on the transmission once it's totally sorted out. The dealer told her there is one other similar case in NM.

    Thing is - it does not yet qualify as a lemon, because she only took it to the dealer once (even though they're on the 3rd fix).
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    The Ford dealer gave her a Nissan Sentra loaner? What happens if she likes that better than the Fiesta? Very interesting situation, keep us updated.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Minor Update: she met with the GM, they showed her the brand-spankin' new trans.

    She's being offered a 100k powertrain warranty, too.

    So looks like Ford is stepping up. Hopefully this is a minor hiccup, and not a common issue, and she'll keep the warranty as a bonus when this is all sorted out.

    She's still in the rental, though.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    edited October 2010
    According to this article, the total labor cost to build an Aveo is less than $500. Despite the cost being low, GM has an agreement with the union to bring in low-cost workers to make the overall labor cost for an Aveo even lower, so they can be built in the U.S beginning next year:

    Small cars, smaller wages: A precedent?

    Automotive News -- October 11, 2010

    DETROIT -- To lure a low-profit small car to the United States, the UAW agreed to staff about 40 percent of a Michigan assembly plant with workers who earn $14 an hour -- half the regular UAW wage.

    So is this a practice that will spread to other assembly plants, further lowering wages in the industry but making U.S.-made vehicles more competitive?

    ........General Motors Co. and the UAW revealed terms of the lower-wage agreement last week for GM's Orion Township (Mich.) Assembly Plant. That's where GM will build the next subcompact Chevrolet Aveo and a new Buick compact called the Verano. The current Aveo is assembled in South Korea.

    Cole said small cars' low stickers can't offset the cost of a traditional $28 an hour wage in Detroit 3 U.S. assembly plants. That's why, for example, Ford Motor Co. is building the Ford Fiesta subcompact in Mexico and Chrysler Group plans to build the Fiat 500 subcompact there starting in December.

    "I do believe this agreement sets the stage for dealing with small-car plants a little differently," Cole said.

    Manufacturing consultant Ron Harbour says the lower-wage workers will generate modest production-cost savings for GM.

    His math: The lower-wage workers will account for 40 percent of the work force, or 8 hours of the 20 or so needed to assemble a car at Lake Orion. With lower-wage workers earning $14 less per hour, that's $112 per car. The savings will be slightly higher, because benefits will be lower for some of the lower-wage workers, he says.

    .........Bragman, a senior analyst with IHS Automotive, said that was the price of bringing to the United States a small car that normally would have been built in a low-cost country such as Mexico. GM ranks Mexico as low-cost, meaning it pays workers less than $15 an hour in combined wages and benefits.


    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101011/OEM01/310119914/1424- -

    I wonder if the currency squeeze and the sheer cost of building a subcompact will collide in the next few years with the low sticker price Americans expect subcompacts to have, eventually squeezing them out of the market.

    I sure hope not! Toyota reduces importation of the Yaris because the Corolla sells for very little more and is built in North America. Honda does the same with the Fit, because of the Civic. Nissan builds in Mexico, and except for this unusual GM experiment all the "domestics" build their small cars in Mexico or elsewhere. VW keeps saying it can't make the case to bring the Polo here because of cost/price ratio, and they already build the Jetta/Golf in Mexico.

    And I find that all of the automakers do a poor job of overseeing quality control on their products built in Mexico, so they are always significantly worse. It is one thing that gives me pause about looking at a Fiesta, actually. The same-platform Mazda2 seems like a better bet, built as it is in Japan. But how long can Mazda afford to do that?

    My hope remains that there is a gradual shift away from midsize to compact in the U.S. - they are running neck and neck now - and that subcompacts see a boost from that trend. If they were much higher volume than they are today, I think that automakers would be more willing to sell subs here, because narrower profit margins are OK if the volume is up.

    Fingers crossed......

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited October 2010
    and being sold as a Dodge. It's called the Alfa Romeo Giulietta. Apparently Alfa Romeo is owned by Fiat and since Dodge is basically owned now by Fiat, too, and the Caliber has been a flop, Dodge needs an influx of small cars to sell in the U.S. And according to autobloggreen.com, this Alfa Romeo is going to be badged and sold in the U.S. as a Dodge. Whoo-hoo! I like it.

    And Elko, NV, has a Dodge dealer. So if the 2012 Scion FR-S comes as only a Scion to the U.S., the closest Scion dealer to me is some 192 miles away, but Dale White Motors of Elko, NV, sells both Toyota's and Dodge's. This car is FWD and is great in the snow, which also fits Elko's harsh winters. In fact, the car is great fun in the snow. The Scion FR-S is RWD, not as good in the snow. My '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS is also FWD and should be fine in the snow as well.

    image

    I configured one on the main Alfa Romeo website, getting a manual transmission, Bose stereo, foglights, 17" turbine wheels with 225/45 R17 tires, black leather seats, red stitching on the seats and the steering wheel and gear knob, rear spoiler, cruise control, dual zone automatic climate control, power front windows, front armrest with storage compartment, side skirts, sports dials with white illumination, 6 airbags, ABS w/EBD, Alfa code immobilizer and alarm system, Vehicle Dynamic Control (ABS+ASR+Brake Assistant) with hill holder & electronic Q2, aluminum kickplates, sport pedals, dark brushed aluminum trim inserts, darkened headlights and 40 mpg. This is a 5-speed manual transmission and the car's engine is a 120hp 4-cyl. Wow.

    It does take a little getting used to that weird grille shape but that's done already. I like it!

    Hey, alltorque, tell me this. The main website gave me the price in British pounds, if I recognize the symbol they used. The website address of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta is this, if you want to check it out.

    http://www.alfagiulietta.com/Default.aspx#/spot

    Configuring the Giulietta just the way I've described will run me 21,995 in what I believe is a British pound symbol. What does that translate to in US dollars, might I ask?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    edited October 2010
    NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!! Putting a Dodge badge on that is wrong on every conceivable level. :cry:

    Aaaaaaarrrrgggghhhhh. Sacrilege. :sick:

    Please tell me it's a joke. :confuse:
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited October 2010
    this is truth, man. Here's where I found it.

    http://green.autoblog.com/2010/10/30/report-chrysler-planning-fiat-based-40-mpg-- - - - - - - dodge-caliber-replac/

    The Dodge Giulietta will be built at the Belvidere, IL, Chrysler plant.

    According to numerous reports, the Alfa Romeo Giulietta will serve as the foundation for a 2011 successor for the aging, lackluster Dodge Caliber. USA Today cites Sergio Marchionne, chief executive officer of Fiat and Chrysler, with throwing out the words that stirred up a slew of reports. The Detroit Free Press adds more fuel to the story by indicating that this new model, based on Fiat's C-EVO platform, will hit 40 miles per gallon and possibly even resemble the Giulietta in its final form.

    Jeff Schuster, J.D. Power and Associates' director of global forecasting, points to the possibility that Dodge may not be the only brand to receive this upcoming 40-mpg model. Schuster believes that Chrysler could get a version, and, are you ready for this, the mighty Jeep brand might as well. Suppliers and consultants familiar with the project say that the vehicle will roll off the lines at Chrysler's Belvidere, IL plant late next year. Yesterday, Chrysler formally announced that it will invest $600 million to retool its Belvidere plant. Reports claim that this retooling will ready the site for production of a new generation of Fiat-based, fuel-efficient vehicles.


    What does 21,995 in British pounds come out to in USD, alltorque, roughly?

    FWI's W, everybody, I have already read up on this before, about a month ago. This is reality, it is going to happen, and the small town in NE Nevada I live in is going to get this car at a local dealer, and I like it. I like it a lot!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    At today's exchange rate, 21,995 GBP equates to 32,275.58 USD.

    However, when comparing prices in the UK and US, they are roughly equal. A car that sells for 25,000 quid in the UK will sell for approximately $25,000 in the US.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited October 2010
    translated, you're saying the Alfa Romeo Giulietta configured as I have configured it will sell for $21,995 in USD. Right? I mean, AFAYK.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited October 2010
    image

    This is really happening, car nuts. This Italian-made sports car is coming to America to be sold as a Dodge! Do your research and check it out. And I think this car would be a better replacement for the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS for me. I will pursue this car like Brian Bosworth as an Oklahoma Sooner chasing down a running back.

    I've decided I like the funky grille design.

    image
    A silver Alfa Romeo Giulietta from the back in a city in Europe...duh!

    Dig that little scoop spoiler on the back.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited October 2010
    Giulietta I think you'll enjoy.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/road-tests/alfa-romeo-giulietta- - - - - -1953429.html

    This new Giulietta comes only as a five-door hatchback, but like other recent Alfas with rear passenger doors, it disguises them by concealing the handles. The handsome 156 was the first Alfa to do this, and the Giulietta also reprises the way that car's waistline ridge fades out and reappears half way along the flank. Apart from this, the horizontal tail lights and the way the front grille "shield" is slightly recessed, the Giulietta, from £21,000, looks like a bigger, more grown-up Alfa Mito.

    Right. Is it a proper Alfa? Currently no other car uses the same structure and suspension, which is a good start. The top Quadriofoglio Verde (QV) model uses a unique engine, which generates an impressive 235bhp from its 1.8 litres thanks to turbocharging and very clever valve timing. The two more modest petrol engines are both of 1.4 litres and, again, turbocharged; they are fine examples of today's downsizing trend, with 120bhp or, in the intriguing MultiAir version with electro-hydraulically-operated inlet valves, 170bhp with very low CO2 output. There are 1.6 and 2.0-litre diesels too. The QV is the fastest, obviously, but don't expect the sharp responses of a hot hatchback. It's good, but emotions aren't stirred quite enough. In an Alfa, that matters.

    The 120bhp Giulietta goes rather better than you might expect, but the Giulietta that tells us that a modern Alfa can truly be a proper Alfa, is the 170bhp MultiAir. In this car it all comes together: lots of energy from a crisp, sonorous engine right across the rev range, an ability to soak up bumps and humps, and – joy! – it dives keenly into corners, steers with precision and transparency and flicks joyfully from one bend to the next. It's lighter in the nose and on its feet than the QV, and the more entertaining for that.

    With fingers lightly crossed, because it was tried on Alfa's test tracks and not British roads, I'd say the Giulietta MultiAir represents a proper return to the form an Alfa should have. To drive, it's the best Alfa in years. Fed up with obvious Germans? Here's the answer.


    This isn't your father's Alfa Romeo Giulietta. Mah-vel-ous. I'm all excited. Really.

    image

    Experts! Where are they allowing you to get in the back door? It's gone, the handles to the back doors, fully completely. Does the person driving have to flick a switch to let passengers in the back in?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited October 2010
    of the 2012 Doge Giulietta. Or what is on the way to Dodge from Alfa Romeo soon. Sooner than you might think. That is.

    image

    image

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,434
    looks like they took a volvo c30, and stuck an Alfa grill and new taillights on it.

    gotta be better than a caliber though!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    You won't have to worry about the Alfa grille. Or, probably 2/3 of the nifty options..

    I think the rear door handles are probably hidden in the window frame area..

    Also, it probably won't sell well in the US... (see Saturn Astra)

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    My guess is that part that looks like a rear quarter window might be where the door handle is?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited October 2010
    the door handle is up high and hidden under a little lip by the window.

    The two more modest petrol engines are both of 1.4 litres and, again, turbocharged; they are fine examples of today's downsizing trend, with 120bhp or, in the intriguing MultiAir version with electro-hydraulically-operated inlet valves, 170bhp with very low CO2 output. There are 1.6 and 2.0-litre diesels too. The QV is the fastest, obviously, but don't expect the sharp responses of a hot hatchback. It's good, but emotions aren't stirred quite enough. In an Alfa, that matters.

    It is coming here for sure, the Alfa grille will be Dodge-ified, the car still interests me. It is getting pretty decent reviews in the UK, whom I respect for car reviews much more than American car reviews. Can you say Ford pick-em-up truck, for example? How much good can you find in a Ford pickup truck?

    Right. Is it a proper Alfa? Currently no other car uses the same structure and suspension, which is a good start. The top Quadriofoglio Verde (QV) model uses a unique engine, which generates an impressive 235bhp from its 1.8 litres thanks to turbocharging and very clever valve timing. The two more modest petrol engines are both of 1.4 litres and, again, turbocharged; they are fine examples of today's downsizing trend, with 120bhp or, in the intriguing MultiAir version with electro-hydraulically-operated inlet valves, 170bhp with very low CO2 output. There are 1.6 and 2.0-litre diesels too. The QV is the fastest, obviously, but don't expect the sharp responses of a hot hatchback. It's good, but emotions aren't stirred quite enough. In an Alfa, that matters.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/road-tests/alfa-romeo-giulietta- - - - - - - -1953429.html

    image

    A video review of interest can be found here from 5th Gear Web TV.

    http://blog.webridestv.com/2010/08/driven-by-others-alfa-romeo-giulietta/

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,434
    Well, if that is a 5 door, I don't care if it has a Dodge badge on it, I will be out to look at it as soon as it shows up. And I guarantee there is not another Dodge you can say that about.

    When exactly is that expected?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like it too, though don't expect it to have Caliber price levels.

    They may pitch it against the Mini Cooper.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    They may pitch it against the Mini Cooper.

    It will be interesting to see how Chrysler / Fiat will market this ... they may try to compete with the new 2012 Focus, or, as noted above, they may look to position it as a 'premium' car and price to compete with MINI.

    The second scenario may work better with the Fiat badge .. I don't see folks cross shopping a $23K MINI against a .... Dodge with a similar price point.

    Also, is Chrysler planning on building this in NA someplace? If not, the exchange rates will kill them if they import it from Italy. Much like the Astra coming from Belgium, GM, couldn't price it competitively. The Focus will be built in Mexico, IIRC.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    the car is going to be built at Chrysler's Belvidere, IL, plant sometime in 2011. Earlier than not, I haven't been able to garner any hard evidence of what a finished business product for sale will look like. They now have me enthralled. I was in a pursuit of a 2012 Scion FR-S, but after seeing this car and how it drives (0-60 in 7.8 seconds is plenty quick for me) and handles and how it looks, I am now in chase after this baby.

    image

    Looks good in white. My first new Dodge? Right now it's looking like a very strong possibility. I've already done the research for you, but I encourage you ta do it fer yer own silly self. The best reviews are from the land of the UK, these people are the ones that like myself love smaller cars. They drive smaller cars, they know smaller cars. You've all heard that the Europeans need smaller cars because of the narrow European streets and such? Truedat smack baby.

    The second scenario may work better with the Fiat badge .. I don't see folks cross shopping a $23K MINI against a .... Dodge with a similar price point.

    michael, you're right. But it's not because the Alfa Romeo Giulietta is not a great rig, it's because the American people are so headstrong over big pick-em-up trucks that they don't know any better.

    The competitors for the Giulietta are the VW Golf, Ford Focus and even the VW Jetta. This car is small but not insignificantly small. Alfa Romeo is offering a few 4-cyl.'s with it, one that is getting the writers giddy like a schoolgirl crush is the 170hp TurboMultiAir from Fiat. Dodge needs to bring the Giulietta over with the 170 horsepower TurboAir. It is supposed to deliver fuel individually to the ports that are selected by the ECU to need it in just that instant. This car will get the elusive 40mpg, folks. One review said that they got 49mpg in their test driving session.

    Until a competent all-electric car comes up I have officially switched my craving for a 2012 Scion FR-S to one of these. And in the shade of white above would be twice as nice. Doesn't this car look hot in white? Red is good, too, for this car. Love red cars like Sammy Hager loves red.

    Like I said, the Veloce model of Alfa Romeo Giulietta comes fully equipped with all the Bluetooth stuff, foglights, red stitching on black leather interior, gearknob and steering wheel, on and on. I went to the Alfa Romeo Giulietta main site to configure a Giulietta fer meh-self. Came to $21,995 British pounds. Translate that to a Dodge-ified Giulietta? Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps $21,995 is more than Americans would want to pay for this car. I would pay it happily, though. The 6-speed is said to work smoothly and competently, too. Here's an excerpt from an article I have read, to get the UK "feel" for the car.

    Could it be love at first sight? Meet the stunning Alfa Romeo Giulietta – an all-new Ford Focus-rivalling five-door hatch which replaces the ageing 147. And Auto Express was the first behind the wheel, to see if the newcomer can live up to its classic namesake from the Fifties.

    Designers have once again drawn from the 8C Competizione supercar’s DNA, so if the MiTo supermini isn’t your cup of tea, then you’re unlikely to fall for the Giulietta, either. But it’s definitely a striking piece of design, aimed at those looking to stand out from the usual VW Golf and Ford Focus crowd.

    A bold grille uses the classic Alfa shield design, while both the head and tail-lights employ LEDs to create an upmarket look. Our model was fitted with the optional Sports(here's the Veloce stuff I was talking about) pack, which adds bigger 17-inch wheels, side skirts and darker headlamp surrounds, plus slightly firmer suspension settings. A hidden handle for the rear doors gives the car a sportier three-door look, too. The luxurious cabin outclasses that of the Vauxhall Astra, while only the Golf can match it for quality of materials.

    A row of toggle switches lifted from the 8C gives a sense of occasion, and the fact that the Giulietta is aimed at families is emphasised by the open layout of the dash rather than a driver-oriented design. With the back seats in place, the 350-litre luggage space matches the Golf’s.

    There are a few surprises, too. Specify sat-nav and the pop-up screen comes pre-loaded with both a visual G-meter and a race car-inspired display showing throttle input and turbo boost. Under the skin, the Giulietta sits on the Fiat Group’s new Compact platform. A sophisticated multi-link rear suspension set-up makes extensive use of aluminium – something Alfa claims saves 10kg over its competitors.

    Back to my own comments on the beautiful new Dodge.

    This car has more strongly captured me than Toyota has with their new Scion FR-S. This Dodge Alfa Romeo Giulietta has more of what I'm looking for, and really, what I already have in my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. So I am going to be really hard to please, here, I don't need a new car. I am trusting in Dodge to not water this pup down such that I must drop it like a Hines Ward pass from Ben Rothelschild.

    I encourage you to look up pictures of the LED taillights while you're doing your research, all of you all interested in this beautiful new Alfa Romeo. I really didn't like that grille of the old Alfa like this one is based on from the 50's, but now it looks so cool to me. I'd love one of the older ones. Only finding one in cherry shape might be tough. Price? I really dunno what it might be priced at. I'll get back to you on that, if I can pull myself away from all the research being done on this car. Hey, Dodge, you wanna sell more of these cars? Offer a 10 year and 100,000 mile Warranty! Incidentally, I just read on one of the UK car websites that Dodge is seriously considering bringing the Giulietta over in it's exact same form that I show you above in white! I kid you not. The point of contention from Alfa Romeo purists is gonna be the Alfa grille. Dogge designers would be wise to carefully design that of their own validity, that is, showing respect to the Italians that designed the original grille for the Alfa Romeo Giulietta. It is beautifully mixed in to this new Giulietta's design and I for one would really love it to stay put. Fully. Completely. Only that probably won't happen, nor can it happen per the international laws of automotive copywriting, eh?
    :blush:

    Or can it happen? This just in from my research. Chrysler may get one of these Giulietta's and also Jeep may get one. What? Found it in my research! :shades:

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  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Looks nice - but I'd like it much more if it becomes available with a turbodiesel option. E10 fuel is bad enough but if we have to go to E15, then I'll replace the fleet with diesels - and this would be a nice one to get a tdi-like powerplant.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    at the Alfa Romeo Giulietta's 6-speed shifter.

    image

    That puppy just looks like an invitation to rowing there, don't it?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I hope if Dodge brings it they'll keep it like that, and just charge a higher price, rather than water it down in to a pathetic rental car, a shell of its former self.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    looks awesome to me. It would certainly be bucking Dodge tradition to do that, to charge more. By charging more, juice, do you mean something like $22,995 or words to that type of effect? If they offered a Alfa Romeo Veloce 5-door hatch outfitted like I have described I would pay up to about $24,000 for it here in Nevada. It is really fun to watch the UK reviewers take this car out for a spin, Alfa Romeo has done a great job with it. One reviewer called it the best Alfa Romeo in the last 25 years and another reviewer called it the best Alfa Romeo in their 100 year history.

    I have even read a review from a credible source that says that Dodge intends to keep the car very similar, in body shape at least, to the one I have been describing. What I don't know is how the mechanicals and interior and options will be played out by Dodge. I think we're probably looking at something around $22,995 for a premium hatch like the Veloce. Really would be surprised to see them price it any higher than that or it won't sell. It will probably price closer to $21,000 and unfortunately offer less than the Veloce, too, but I'm gonna be positive about this car, it is a positive little energy burster, that it is. The 6-speed gearshifter looks like a fun operation in this car.

    The following information helps explain the reason that the Guilietta is being chosen by Sergio Marchionne as the Dodge Caliber replacement here for the States.

    However, the next question centers around the drivetrain of this 2012 Dodge compact based on the 2010 Alfa Romeo Giulietta. Fiat plans to acquire a 15% higher stake in the Chrysler Group but one of the stipulations is that Chrysler has to offer at least one vehicle that offers 40mpg or better. Dodge and Chrysler have nothing to fulfill that requirement right now but the Alfa Romeo Giulietta in the European market has five engines that offer 40mpg or better and two of those offer better than 50mpg. The bad news is that three of those five engines (and the two 50+mpg engines) are diesels and the US market isn’t as diesel-friendly as consumers in Europe, so we are less likely to see an oil-burning 2012 Dodge compact.

    The good news is that the other two engines are both 1.4L MultiAir 4-cylinders and when the 2011 Fiat 500 reaches dealerships later this year it will be powered by a 1.4L MultiAir engine that is built in Dundee, Michigan. The 2010 Alfa Romeo Giulietta powered by the 1.4L MultiAir I4 offers 168 horsepower and 180lb-ft of torque while yielding 40mpg with a manual transmission and 45mpg with the twin clutch (automatic) transmission.

    http://www.huliq.com/10281/2012-dodge-compact-be-based-alfa-romeo-giulietta

    A source who asked to remain unnamed with Chrysler told me that over the past few months, the engine and transmission testing people at Chrysler’s test facilities have been logging major hours, testing a variety of these new Fiat engines. The engines being developed and tested could very likely be the engines that will help the 2012 Dodge compact based on the 2010 Alfa Romeo Giulietta reach the 40mpg rating needed for Fiat to invest more money in the Chrysler Group


    There's that 168hp (I've been calling it 170hp from articles I've read but it is 168hp) MultiAir I have my eyes on with a 6-speed shifter to row gearing for it.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    A metal shift knob? No, thanks. Not unless I lived in the far south. :shades:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    You wouldn't want one there, either.... metal gets hot!

    I like leather, though wood and plastic seem to do the trick, as well...

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    image

    Every time I see this pic it gets me all excited to want ta jump in and drive. These interior materials are very Mitsu Lancer-like. Nothing extraordinarily fancy but enough to look good and get the job done. A car is not defined by it's interior, it's defined by it's value, looks, reliability and performance. That according to iluvmysephia1, so you know you can trust it's validity. Once the Pomeranian and Chow Chow jump in a few times you can call off all the cameras and show for the new car's interior, anyway...right? I thought so. Right.

    If we can pick and choose options to fine minutia, I would pass on the NAV package. Not necessary. I would value a decent stereo over a NAV pak, any day of the week. Including Sunday.

    And this jumping back in from the Autobloggreen article.

    Jeff Schuster, J.D. Power and Associates' director of global forecasting, points to the possibility that Dodge may not be the only brand to receive this upcoming 40-mpg model. Schuster believes that Chrysler could get a version, and, are you ready for this, the mighty Jeep brand might as well. Suppliers and consultants familiar with the project say that the vehicle will roll off the lines at Chrysler's Belvidere, IL plant late next year. Yesterday, Chrysler formally announced that it will invest $600 million to retool its Belvidere plant. Reports claim that this retooling will ready the site for production of a new generation of Fiat-based, fuel-efficient vehicles.

    Automotive sweetness and spice and everything nice. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    You wouldn't want one there, either.... metal gets hot!

    Aluminum does, titanium not so much. I use a cloth glove on those really hot or cold days.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    good advice. I was thinking that I had read that Alfa Romeo offered a leather-wrapped gearknob but going back there I saw on the most loaded-up performance model they hinted at a leather-wrapped gearknob but didn't show any pictures of it. And that wouldn't be the model I would buy, anyway, so your advice of wearing a glove on really hot or cold days is as sound as a pound. :blush:

    And I don't know if it's titanium or aluminum or what have you, have to look further in to that.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    But iluv......Front Wheel Drive? Really? You are throwing over the R(ight)WD FR-S for this Italian FWDer?

    And BTW, I don't think this thing is a subcompact, it's Astra-sized. Not much different from Golf, Matrix, etc, and very definitely compact, not sub.

    Now it is supposedly only 3 months until a completely DIFFERENT flavor of sub is available from the Italians - the 500. I want to see it. But I'm disappointed they are going to wait a whole extra year to launch the Abarth. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,591
    But I'm disappointed they are going to wait a whole extra year to launch the Abarth.

    Add another year after that before the sticker no longer has the dreaded ADM... :sick:

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    a subcompact or a compact. I just know this secluded NE Nevada mountain town has a Toyota/Chrysler dealer in one, and so even if the FT-86 goes to Scion, and I have to drive 229 miles to Boise to see that, the local dealer will carry the Dodge/Alfa Romeo Giulietta.

    I watched some video on YouTube and on the main Alfa Romeo Giulietta website of the Giulietta running through snow and it looked so very at home with it. The RWD Toyota FT-86 would drive worse in the snow, and everybody around here is warning me that snow is in the works for 5 odd months around here, coming right up.

    Plus, I'm hooked on that bodystyle of the Giulietta and it's LED taillights, etc. The '08 Lancer GTS wouldn't be a slouch to just hang on to, either, for that matter.

    Watch the Giulietta pound through the icy snow on this YouTube video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJPtcLc4GQY&feature=player_embedded

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    2011 Dodge Alfa Romeo Giulietta, iluv wouldn't have much ta pick from if he gets a wild, tangy hair and decides to trade in the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS for one of these Italian true racecar cars. :D

    image

    And since ya only go around once, I've already decided I want to pursue a Dodge Giulietta like Gary Payton pursued Michael Jordan in the 1996 NBA Finals.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    for the American version, LOL! :-)

    Fiat Americanizes its 500 -- complete with cupholders

    The Fiat 500 subcompact may be Italian through and through, but the U.S. version that arrives in dealerships late this year will cater to American tastes.

    The American car will have a more powerful engine than the European version, a slightly softer ride and -- most important -- more substantial, American-style cupholders.

    Nearly 27 years after leaving the United States, Fiat returns at the Los Angeles Auto Show this week with the 500. The U.S. car will have the same 1.4-liter engine as Europe but will add MultiAir, a Fiat engine-breathing system that the company says improves power 10 percent and cuts emissions 10 percent.

    The engine will be teamed with a new six-speed automatic or six-speed manual transmission. The North American version also will have new bumpers and body cladding and a slightly softer suspension. In the cabin, there's a new center console with American-style cupholders.

    ...........
    Fiat has not issued performance numbers or specifications. Based on comparisons with the European version, Automotive News estimates the 500 will average 40 mpg city and highway.

    The 500 will be manufactured in Chrysler Group's plant in Toluca, Mexico. Dealers will get their first cars in December, and the 500 will go on sale in January. The market launch is scheduled for March.

    The 500 will be sold in about 165 stores


    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101115/OEM03/311159963/1427-

    They're going to call the Fiat showrooms "Fiat Studios" or something. Why do they ALWAYS have to soften the ride of good European cars?????? Are American hind ends really that tender? I have to admit, I'm kinda glad they are going to have center consoles with cupholders though. ;-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    They had to soften the ride quality so the BIG GULPs and Slurpees in the cupholders don't spill all over the center console and seats.

    An Italian-engineered Fiat being built in a Mexican Chrysler facility....if they manage to pull off actually building a competitive, high quality car that sells well, I will be truly impressed....amazed, even! I mean, this is the company that was saved by the lowly K-car....looking back, I'm not sure how that car saved their butt. It was a testament to just how horrrible GM and Ford products were in that segment in the early 80s....
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Why do they ALWAYS have to soften the ride of good European cars??????

    American roads are rougher, as a rule.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Bingo. They have tighter curves with better pavement compared to our open, often crumbling, interstates.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'd rather ride a bike in any US city versus the cobbles in Rome. The cobbles look great, but even walking can be dicey at times.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    edited November 2010
    The main reason I suspect are dirt roads. There are hundreds of thousands of miles of dirt and gravel roads in the U.S. while virtually none exist in Europe any more. Of course they have to soften the ride to sell well over here.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I dunno - I love dirt roads but I have to search them out, and I'm living in a very rural area.

    I've heard that suspensions and tires were beefed up for sales to Mexico, and with all the topos and rough roads down there, I could see Fiat or VW tweaking their cars to soften the ride. But not so much for the US. Are the potholes in the Northeast corridor still eating whole cars?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They some times also add half an inch of ground clearance as well. This leaves SUV-sized wheel gaps in cars like the first-year Golf V.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Yes, I think the ride hight changes sometimes are caused by US bumper regs.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    we're getting the 2,400-pound Fat Elvis version of the 500.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Sure does. :-(

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited November 2010
    they advertise 4 2011 Fiesta's for sale. Three hatchbacks with automatic transmissions and one sedan with a 5-speed manual transmission. I went there tonight after they were closed to take a look. The three hatchbacks were there but not the sedan. I'd be interested in test driving the 5-speed blue sedan. It is listing for only $13,990 after $500 customer cash back. Has all the standard equipment and very few options, has A/C and old-school roll-em-up-yerself windows. The most important option it does have is a single CD-changer with mp3 player. No center armrest, I'd love to test drive it just to see if I could get along without the Lancer's center storage armrest combo. I love that and if I bought the blue 5-speed Ford Fiesta sedan built in Cuautitlan, Mexico, I would look in to installing one of those aftermarket, if it could be fit in there somehow. Ford puts various plug-in outlets there now. They light up with "ambient" lighting the cupholders at night, which I like, and they light up the footrest area, too, in your choice of some ten different colors. Of course, I'd go on the dashboard configurator and choose blue to go along with the exterior color. Ford calls the interior color charcoal black with "light stone."

    No need to worry about losing your gas cap with your 2011 Fiesta, the new Fiesta's don't have gas caps. You just aim, shoot and pull the gas pump back out when you're done. Nice feature, not a deal-breaker for the positive but kind of nice. The Fiesta is getting pretty good reviews from the car sites so far, nice handling and a "nibble-fix" mechanism to counteract minor steering foibles that corrects itself automatically as you drive with it's electrically-assisted steering system.

    Apparently both the sedan and hatch are fun to drive and hold to corners pretty well with the Macpherson struts and sway bar built in in the front. I've spent hours reading the various reviews today and apparently the 2011 Ford Fiesta is also the safest subcompact of them all, too.

    I'll have to call and ask them where the blue 5-speed sedan is they are advertising on their website. They have several new Focii, Fusion's and some Taurus', though not many. As this is pickup country Gallagher Ford's saleslots are dominated by Ford F-150's and the other various truck offerings. There's even a long flexfuel white passenger van out there, parked right by the three automatic Fiesta's.

    image

    Where's yer blue 5-speed sedan, dudes? I did the math the other night and 56% of all cars and SUV's I've owned have been Fo-Mo-Co rigs. This little 5-speed sedan is the one out there at my hometown Ford dealer that could bring me back to owning a domestic car once again. I like that the dealer is in Elko, close by and there to help if I need them. To service my Mitsubishi at a real Mitsu dealer I need to go to Boise, about 229 miles north on the Mountain City Highway. Not very convenient. The Fiesta with it's FWD would handle the occasional snowstorm well, but so would our 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. So we'll see. I don't know how this new credit crisis would treat my current situation, either, but I'm currently paying the Lancer off with monthly payments that go on and on, so why should Ford care if I just switch to Ford Motor Credit? With tighter lending practices it would be interesting to go check it out at least and then just walk away with my Lancer GTS if it doesn't work out. Mrs. iluvmysephia would want some splaning done, too, but this one is intriguing me in a large way right now. I'll get back to ya all.

    I'm all giddy with excitement right now, let's see if it lasts. I was right about the Suzuki Kizashi sedan for 2010, loved the test drive of one, but Courtesy Imports of Henderson, NV, didn't like how my dealing habits treated them. They were hungry as bearcats to make a deal with me, but they wouldn't "deal." Oh well.

    Might want to see how Gallagher Ford of Elko, NV, likes to play in the automotive sandbox with me. For only $13,990 with $500 Ford consumer cash back I'm being pulled mysteriously towards the dealer by some strange automotive car nutopian force. I'm getting myself all flushed with excitement as I type this out. Must stop. Ayye-yii-yiii! :shades:

    This blue Fiesta sedan reminds me most of my 1997 Ford Escort sedan, in metallic grape color. That car was so boring to drive, though, and prompted me to trade it in on the 1999 Kia Sephia, the one that sparked my Edmunds.com nickname. From what I've read the new Ford Fiesta sedans and hatches are not at all boring to drive. Big difference in the magnetistic attraction I'm being affected by there.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    the new Fiesta's don't have gas caps

    Really? What does that look like? Some sort of spring-loaded plug in the filler neck?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Yep, looks like this:
    image

    It concerns me a little that they use it on cars with fillerdoors that don't have to be released inside, although no real difference than having a cap in that situation, I guess...
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