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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Maybe Fiat knew they wouldn't be that good, and that's why the MSRP is lower than expected. ;)
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    30/38 isn't so horrible, though you would expect it to be a little higher. I wonder why there's a 5mpg difference between the Euro and U.S. spec versions.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Imperial gallons? :confuse:
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Nope - the figures I posted previously were converted from U.K. to U.S. figures. (U.K. highway is over 50mpg in their measurements)

    5mpg is huge. Different transmission and gearing ratios might explain a bit of it, but I suspect that it's 300-400lbs heavier as well. You don't loose 5mpg any other way.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    edited January 2011
    Umm, 30/38 for the stick is better than ANYTHING on the road now powered only by gasoline, except the Smart car (and the 500 runs on regular, not premium like the Smart).

    If you throw in the hybrids, nothing will handle like this or be fun to drive like this, except the CRZ, which is rated 31/37, which I call a wash.

    30/38 is really quite encouraging, actually, IMO.

    As for the automatic, well 27/34 is MOST unimpressive, it's true, but then look at similarly-engined cars currently available: the Mazda2 making the same power is rated 27/33 with the auto (although that is an old-school 4-speed), as is the Fit with the manual shift function the 500 has.

    Fiesta is rated 29/38 with the auto but it's not shiftable and it's slower than DIRT.

    Bottom line: when the automakers gear these small cars to accelerate rapidly and be "sporty" with the automatic, fuel economy suffers every time.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,938
    I agree.... a MINI is 28/37... so, not bad...

    I'll disagree about the significance of mileage ratings once you top 30 mpg..

    If I spend $300/mo. on gas, and get 20 mpg, moving to 30 mpg saves me $100/mo.. To save another $100/mo., I'd have to get 60 mpg....

    So.. higher is better.... but, not once I have to sacrifice driveability, fun, features, etc...

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  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I wonder why there's a 5mpg difference between the Euro and U.S. spec versions.

    Different testing regimens, plus the US version is probably detuned for emissions and crappy gas.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    If I spend $300/mo. on gas, and get 20 mpg, moving to 30 mpg saves me $100/mo.. To save another $100/mo., I'd have to get 60 mpg....

    And to save ANOTHER $100/mo, beyond the 60 mpg... you would have to get infinite miles per gallon. Unless...

    Unless the price of fuel increases or your miles driven goes up.

    At low fuel prices and/or low driving levels, fuel mileage has little economic impact. But as fuel prices increase, (and you KNOW that they will), fuel economy becomes increasingly important. :shades:
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,938
    But as fuel prices increase, (and you KNOW that they will), fuel economy becomes increasingly important.


    By then, I'll be ready for another car! ;)

    I've been averaging right around 26 mpg.... I can live with that... I'd like to do better, but not willing to give up fun or utility for it.. I do like MINIs, though...

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    40 is the new 30. Elantra, Cruze Eco, and a Fiesta model all manage that number.

    All Elantras do, too, manual or auto. I realize it's a sedan and won't exactly compete with a 500, but fuel misers may still cross-shop them.
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Checked one out at the Philly Auto Show, and gotta say, I'm impressed.

    It had the longest lines of any car at the auto show, longer than any Porsche, for instance.

    I loved it. Loads of personality. Cheap plastics, but great design. And the ergonomics are better than a MINI.

    The price is right, so expect to see lines at dealers and maybe even markups until demand dies down a bit.
  • alltorquealltorque Posts: 535
    edited February 2011
    Glad to see that the baby Fiat is getting attention - it has quite a following here in the UK, and the rest of Europe. In my opinion it makes the MINI look rather bloated and bland. The 500 is a great little car. The Abarth 500 is just fun on 4 wheels and the Abarth 500 EssEss is plain mental; think original Mini Cooper S sort of fun.

    Think the 5mpg delta between EU and USA mpg figures is probably down to different test regimes. The EU test cycles provide very optimistic figures which virtually no-one ever achieves - unless they have a very light right foot. General motoring press feeling is that the EU figures overstate economy by up to 8% in the worst case.

    Purely for interest I've just looked at my average mpg for the past 48000 miles. If I convert from mpUKg to mpUSg I arrive at a figure of 30.09 and the figure is actual fuel used as I log every fill-up and mileometer reading. I'm quite happy with that as I'm driving an '06 Volvo S60 D5 with the 6-spd Geartronic 'box. Apologies for wandering off topic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2011
    We're not off topic, there is nothing wrong with a 500 Abarth subcompact. ;)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited February 2011
    and feeling like just sticking with my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS I see one of these on the net and get warm and fuzzly feelings deep down inside.

    image

    I am now in Kellogg, ID, home of Dave Smith Motors. Who or what is Dave Smith Motors? Google them. They are the world's highest volume Chrysler dealer and the U.S.'s 3rd largest volume seller of GM's. Kellogg, ID, my new home, has a whopping population of 2,167!

    Maybe I'll start hanging out there when Chrysler builds their version of the 2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta and sends them to Idaho. That is a plan, because I will get the best Mopar deal anywhere in the Pacific Northwest.

    image
    2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    Th real question, iluv, is when will Ford get serious and offer us a Fiesta SVT like the Fiesta RS in Europe (with a 6-speed manual of course!)?

    Is there any hope??!!

    I can't wait to get me a 500 Abarth to try out.....

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited February 2011
    how do you like one of these?

    image
    Ford Focus EV

    I still may trade for a 2011 Ford Fiesta 5-speed manual, hatch or sedan. I can't seem to get the cool looking car out of my head. See fintail, I like European cars! After all, the NA Fiesta design is from the European-designed Ford Fiesta bodystyle. I just have a feeling I'd have a ball with it's stick in this Idaho panhandle snow.

    I finally scored a job in the Pacific NW, only it's the inland Pacific NW. Only 311 miles from Seattle, and I'm staying put and paying bills here till the day I perish. This whirlwind tour of the western chunk of the U.S. has come to an end. Time to pop in ZZ Top's 'Mexican Blackbird', make myself a tall Margarita and start scheming to get my new Fiesta. :P

    It's pining at me like a ticking timeclock.

    image
    2011 Ford Fiesta S sedan

    I think it is every bit the car the '65 Ford Mustang was for Ford. I know, different era, but like the '65 Stang, this car was carefully planned out and attention to detail is evident in its design from front to back.

    I may just get a hatchback, if the right car at the right time comes along. It may be a few years down the road until I get one.

    Or see if Mitsubishi is still going to build the hybrid Lancer GTS like they mentioned a couple of years ago. If they do, that may indeed be my next new car.

    Or see what Chrysler decides to do about building their version of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta. If they do build it I'll have it coming right here to Kellogg, ID, and tell ya what, if they give it a long Warranty I might just bite. If it's gonna be this [non-permissible content removed]-footing 5 year and 60,000 mile crap then I'm staying away like Roger Earl would from a Justin Bieber concert.

    Lake City Ford of Coeur d' Alene, ID, has 9 Fiesta's in stock. 3 are sedans, 6 are hatches and only one of the sedans is manual-trannied. It is tuxedo black metallic and is priced around $16,600 before tax and license.

    They also have a hatchback priced at around $16,600 before t&l that is red and a stick. If I went there Saturday to deal that would be the one I'd pick. Too hot to handle, baby, hotter than any Pittsburgh Stealer QB that gets so boozed up on Super Bowl week that he doesn't know his receivers from a hole in the ground. Have to go with the Pack this weekend, Pittsburgh is alway a loss-leader in my book. Bunch of whiny dorks, that they are.

    I'd rather watch Bab-wa Waa Waa sit around and talk about her surgeries than watch a Super Bowl with the Pittsburgh Stealers involved. What is the U.S. coming to?

    Super Bowl 40 was Seattle's to lose and the bought-off referees valued their pocketbooks more than the integrity of the game. Or the NFL front office orchestrated the whole thing for the almighty Yankee greenback, or a consortium of those two plus some important Lost Wages bookies all got together for a cluster of insane fun. At the better team's expense.

    I really should totally boycott the NFL entirely.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,064
    glad you made it back to the PNW. You working in Spokane now?

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,309
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, inquiring minds. You really did wind up in Kellogg eh?

    Some nice country up that way. Plenty close enough to take whatever you wind up with over Highway 12. Over and over again. :-)

    I think the whole town of Kellogg would have disappeared without Dave Smith. Sounds like he has cars stashed in empty lots all over town.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited February 2011
    this man does new GM cars so well I'm thinking of giving up healthcare work ta sell cars. There's more know-it-alls in healthcare than there are Matt Lauer's on the Today show. I'm here in Kellogg, ID, and if they want every last penny of mine they can sure have it. I've found my home, this place is gorgeous. The corporate tards running American business have beat me silly....I'm dun-faooorrr. Take it all, you morons. I'm never movin' again, this insecure nation of has-be-gone's have taken their toll on me. You're right. Right.

    Yes, we must buy an American car. You're right. I have Dave Smith of Kellogg, ID, right here in my backyard to vouch for you.

    I've found my New World Order Home. We drove over to Coeur d' Alene today and it was beautiful. Who needs the spoils of Seattle when you can have the beautiful panhandle of Idaho.

    I'm dun runnin', boys. Oh, do take one more of my dimes, you stupid low-life greedy American know-it-alls. Cowards.

    I'm home. Never again will I move and if Pittsburgh's Stealers win again I'll eat my Mitsubishi, panel by panel. Circuit by circuit.

    Someone stole the guts of America. Ask the stupid Boeing upper management when Airbus scared them. Idiots.

    I'm moving to Norway. This country is full of stupid sell-outs and cowards.

    I'll stay and give my corporate life to the know-it-all, greedy, stumpheads that run American business. I'm outta here as soon as I can leave. The greedy dorks have ruined America and if the lesson Captain Smith of the Titanic wasn't enough learnin' for you then you're not worth savin'.

    Put ZZ Top's 'Mexican Blackbird' on and hand me another Margarita. The greedy have ruined this once proud country. Have your reward in full so stupid slobs. I'm taking the first train out of this country. And never coming back.

    Watch him. He's crazy. Ewwww. Better have Donald Trump speak some truth in to him. :sick:

    Now I understand my Dad so much more fully. The money loving know-it-alls that run this country will rot so nicely in hell. Be gone with you all. ;)

    And if you think I'm kidding I invite you over to Kellogg, ID, to talk face-to-face with me. Dad was a very, very smart hombre.

    Tighten the Arizona border walls, Barack. It will do us all good.

    If American business executives had some bal*& it would do us some real good. Instead they wimp out and lay off people by the thousands. I give up. Take my money, you stupid ill-willed incompetent morons. You win.

    We all lose.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,309
    Chill and drive down to White Bird, hit the dirt roads going west up into Hells Canyon. Miles of one lane, thousands of switchbacks, steep drop-offs, elk and unlimited vistas. Amazing place to tool around in. Take extra food and water for when you get lost. :shades:

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited February 2011
    my memory still works! In 1981 on one of our Boeing vacations I drove us down the hill heading south from north of the city of Boise. We went down what is it Whitebird Hill, too. It would've made a great nighttime picture, the view we had of Boise. Gorgeous! I'll take my Jeep Grand Cherokee bought from Dave Smith Motors and head on down there. That is a sharp looking SUV. I was on a rant that would rival one of Gord Downie's of The Tragically Hip last night. Sorry about that, steve. You would be right to ban my last post there if you saw fit and I'd be an idiot to get mad about that. The large audience listening was captive, and, well, you know! Courage, my word, that's right, it doesn't matter. I wish The Tragically Hip would play Spokane this year. Robin Trower is still penned in to play The Knitting Factory in Spokane on March 10th, 2011. Maybe I'll go hear him play, he's phenomenal on that toned-up Stratacaster. Just awesome.

    You're right, Idaho is gorgeous. Are you and your wife still over in the UP of Michigan? Also gorgeous country. I was going on and on to my wife about corporate America and the dorks that run it to her for a while last night while we were seeing the City of Coeur d' Alene. That city has more thrift stores per capita than any city I have ever seen! I saw one nice looking CD shop (ma and pa type) and I found a Hasting's store, too! Whoo-hooo!

    For those of you who don't have a Hasting's near you...they are a great CD/book/and one of the best magazine stores I've ever seen. We will be making so many trips to Coeur D' Alene it would make your head spin. Fortunately Fourth of July Pass was clear last night. The locals on city-data. com have been telling me for months online to watch out. My son had a real scary event happen to him while trailing our U-Haul truck in our '08 Lancer GTS. I was first in line and as we were going up Lookout Pass heading towards Idaho his headlights disappeared.

    "Oh-oh."

    "What?"

    "I don't see his headlights anymore!"

    Trouble was I couldn't stop or we would've started slipping down the pass back in to Montana!

    "I can't help him, honey...if I try to then we're both stuck!" The look on my wife's face was one of sheer horror. It was comparable to the look on my face if I were forced to watch Barbra Walters non-stop on TV for 44 hours.

    "Oh, s&^%, someone turn this TV off or turn my face and ears away from it!"

    I mean, if that woman were to ever interview me I would have to excuse myself to use the restroom and then run down 99 flights of stairs and out in to the busy NYC sidewalk and never come back. Funny thing is, I think she thinks she's good...what's more, I think she thinks we think she's good, too! :sick:

    Anyhoo, the boy was all right. He told us the Lancer GTS spun around completely once. He looked behind him and a semi was coming at him but stopped. It was right near the top of the pass and a sign that warned of 4 miles of nasty ice spots ahead.

    "I hope you have some good life insurance on me and good car insurance" first words out of his mouth. He says what saved him from hitting the guardrail was how slow he was driving. I was going about 35-40 mph at the time.

    I think I'll heed the locals warning about 4th of July Pass and its perils, too. There is somebody's serious money flowing through the City of Coeur d' Alene. Nice town with lots of good stores and a cool, hip downtown.

    Lately, my mind has been telling me "what's wrong with this subcompact, buster!"

    image
    2011 Ford Fiesta hatchback in Sunlit Orange

    Sunlit orange? Try Mustard Yellow. There's a red one of these for sale at Lake City Ford in Coeur d' Alene as I type this message out. It is priced at $16,660 and it is in 5-speeds. Now, if Bank of America will pay me back my portion of the BO gift we all gave them a couple a years ago I'll take my son over there and pick my Fiesta up and give him the Lancer GTS! Come on, equalize this money situation out, Uncle Sam. How about holding off building 80 times the amount of fighter jets and aircraft carriers and other types of weapons of mass destruction and give the average taxpayers a break? Oopps...here I go again.

    No, we're done moving. I'm home. This panhandle of Idaho is drop-dead gorgeous and the people are friendly here as well. What a double kisser of goodness! :D

    It has been my personal goal to come home to the Pacific NW for about 3 years now, ever since a know-it-all CEO came to the small hospital in SE Arizona that I worked at. Once he hired his "gun" a foreign know-it-all doctor, the place went downhill like a fine U.S. skier at the Olympics. So it's done. I'm home! Whoo-hooooooooooooooooo!

    I feel like I did when I bought our '08 Lancer GTS, only this place will pay us back several-fold. And that is one way you know you're truly back home.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited February 2011
    is how Kellogg has looked for the week and a half we've been here.

    image
    Kellogg, ID, typical winter shot

    But this is how Coeur d' Alene, ID, looked yesterday to us. Only we were waaaay doooooown theeeeeeeere. Boop.

    image
    Coeur d' Alene, ID, on a typical sunny summer day

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,005
    edited February 2011
    I can see myself retiring to that kind of area...I spent a big of my childhood east of the mountains, and I know the place. My dad retired to the Blue Mountain area of SW WA near Idaho.

    Heck, I could deal with the place now if it actually had living wage private sector jobs.

    Indeed, if there's a hell, our corporate and political masters will inhabit their own hot level :shades:
  • man, I have never agreed with you more on a subject. The corporate sellouts and their selfish "I'll have my way and go with your money" is so disgusting and nauseating it defies explanation.

    I landed a good paying job in the medical industry in tiny Kellogg because I went to school and obtained a degree in healthcare, but this New World Order spinoff of Clinton, the NAFTA free trade agreement is nothing but a sellout to appease the Corporate Gods. And they still couldn't pull it off! They needed BO to bail them out.

    The fact that these dorks can charge us $3.00 to use a non-bank bankcard is so stupid I shudder with udder delight.

    The grey suits at The Boeing Company can rot in a fiery hell for all I care. I feel sorry for anyone still stuck in that place. Hopefully you're not there, fintail. :sick:

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,005
    There's a large group of suits in this country who deserve a one way field trip to a guillotine exhibition.

    I work in a place with endless hordes of overpaid empty suit sycophants, but it isn't the Lazy B ;)

    NAFTA will go down as a grave mistake. One needs only to look at the socio-economic spectrum since it was enacted.

    So when are you buying that FT86? :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    So when are you buying that FT86?

    Only 9 months until it is available! :-) :-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited February 2011
    I'll be stickin' with the '08 Lancer GTS as we decide which bills to pay and which ones to not. :blush:

    When other people don't pay their bills it's hard to pay yours. This whole thing is getting riduculous and it's so messy, this money thing. The more people get overly concerned about money the more common decency goes the way of the Studebaker. I'm choosin' to treat people right and throwing the Corporate Dork-Gods out with the bathwater.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,005
    Or when the corporate cowards get bailed out by the taxpayer...why shouldn't you get the same treatment? :shades:

    The best car is a paid off car.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited February 2011
    amen to that. Coeur d'Alene, ID, was awash with people walking their dogs today. We checked out the local Hasting's store and I got a quick glimpse at a new compact coming from Ford that sort of has my eye.

    image
    2012 Ford Focus ST

    A 5-speed in this color would be hot and fresh. Love that color!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

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