Toyota Highlander

dianne4toyota · March 2001

The "BE" is available but only for the Limited models out here. To clarify that, and the "VD" code cars are the problem, as they are very scarce in the great wilds of Southern CA!

But, 4WDs can alleviate the need for a "VD" car (the skid/trac extra) when there aren't another choice to be had. I know there will be "VD" and "heated seats" cars out there a bit more next month due to the ordering status of these, both in 4WDs and 2WDs as well. Patience may make you verrrrry virtuous!

Di

rubytuesday · March 2001

The tonneau cover is listed in the HL brochure as available with the Limited package but not under "additional options". It is also available with the Convenience Package (CQ) AND the Quick Order Package (QO) if you don't want all the expense of the Limited Package (LL). I could not find a code listing for the tonneau cover by itself, so that leads me to think you can't order it yet, but I agree with Drew that sooner or later it will be made available as a spare part. If you can wait, maybe it will come out as an option. The center console code seems to be CC. I think you would need to specify color (charcoal or ivory) and have a dealer install it - doesn't it bolt to the floor? Does anyone else have experience ordering the console?

Each market seems to have some differences, for instance I received a price for 4 floor mats, not the 5 mat set from my dealer. You need something for the cargo area, I don't have one yet. Actually the mats appear to come in different configuations and styles (if you can get the dealers to work with you on this) they are (as far as I know, Steve, Dianne - correct me if I'm wrong!): CF - Carpeted Front and Rear Mats (Dealer Installed Option); CFA - All Weather Front and Rear (Dealer Installed) and CM - Cargo Mat (Dealer Installed). I believe the Gulf States distributors use different codes (M5 for a 5-mat set, CR for the console). Has anyone found any after-market all-weather mats, or it's too soon to be looking?

grplavloff · March 2001

"Does anyone notice there is a bit of wind noise at highway speed? I can hear the wind noise brusing up against the winshield and along the windows around 65 MPH and higher ... "

Living on a planet with an atmosphere tends to do that to you.

pauleul · March 2001

Questions for Dianne (or anyone else who has the answers). Repeating the question from post #1199, does Toyota have a separate advertising fee which in NOT inclucded in the invoice charge. I have purchased Acura's, Explorers's, and GM products (always at $500 over invoice or less) and have never had to deal with the advertising as a separate issue. Isn't this just more BS from dealers trying to squeeze more dollars out of the deal?

Second question. Like many others, I don't like the light colored leather and want grey. Anyone know about what the going rate is to have aftermarket leather installed? Can the consumer do better going direct to the installer or does the dealer get protected so they can add on their markup.

svtcobraconv · March 2001

In regards to post #1199 and #1208... Went to the local Toyota dealer with invoice information last night. Dealer said "BTW, your invoice numbers are wrong. You need to tack on another $250 for the advertising fee."

Didn't matter though, he wouldn't budge from MSRP, so we quickly walked out anyway...

pauleul · March 2001

I've now heard 3 different stories regarding advertising fees.

1. $540
2. $250
3. 1.8% of base vehicle

Anyone else smell something fishy?

toyotawalt · March 2001

I don't remember seeing a fee on mine; I'll have to look. However, they definitely shouldn't be charging it; in part because that's part of the cost of doing business. But also, they aren't advertising the vehicle, at least not in my region (mid-Altlantic). They're advertising the Sequoia, the Camry and the Corolla, but not the Highlander.
People keep asking me if that's a 4Runner!

shl72953 · March 2001

Mine was $392. Manager said there was nothing he could do about it. I paid. So he either made $865 or $1257. Either way, I was satisfied with the price of the Limited HL.
Wally

svec7186 · March 2001

i've only shopped for hondas and toyotas with the understanding of invoice vs. msrp. dianne and other dealers explained it this way:
toyota usa breaks up the use into selling regions. each region has its own Advertising Fee (TDA) based on a % of the price of the car in question. ex. in the NE region i got and dealers invoice faxed to me. all prices matched www.kbb.com. the only difference was the TDA. for the 2 fax's i got the TDA was $420. the dealerships told me this fee is part of the dealers invoice and is NOT nagotiable. the only thing thats nagotoable is the sales fee between the dealers invoice and the msrp that goes into the pockets of the dealership and salesperson - any cash incentives from the manufacturor.
ex. in NY/NJ there are NO cash incentives at this time so the CAMRY, COROLLA is selling over invoice. in PA there are cash incentives and the CAMRY, COROLLA are selling bellow invoice.

hope this helps.

sotagear · March 2001

I was negotiating a lease deal with the fleet manager at a local bay area (N Ca) dealer a few days ago & he let me take off with the vehicle inquiry report on a V6 4x2 non-limited Highlander. Here's all the extras tacked on to their dealer invoice:
TDA (advertising fee?) - $432
Dealer Holdback - $501
Whsl. Financial Reserve - $250

jdlaw2 · March 2001

Drew, thanks for the article on fax blasting.

I had almost the exact same experience as the article's author. It was great! I had about 20 dealers competing for my business! I faxed my letter to 49 of the 52 dealers (fleet managers) in Florida. One exception to the authors view is that I had success when this vehicle was not widely availible. I did it at the end of Jan.

With several of those responses, the fleet manager faxed me a copy of their invoice. The only thing that resembled an advertising fee was the Southeast Toyota admin fee. Without looking (I am not by my files) I remeber the fee to be $325. Unfortuneatly it looks like the dealers in the souteast states are forced to pay this fee. If they have to pay it, then it will be passed on to us.

This is a lot like the Toyo Gaurd (rustproofing, VIN window etching, and upholstery protection). Southeast Toyota adds Toyo Gaurd at the port and passes these vehicles on to the dealers. Unless you order from the factory and ask to have this option left off, it will be a part of your vehicle and invoice price.

Jon

svtcobraconv · March 2001

A question for Dianne or other Toyota experts I've only "ordered" cars from US car companies in the past, and the factory built your car exactly as you ordered it. The dealer told me last night that Toyota doesn't work that way. With Toyota, you can request a certain configuration, and when that combination just happens to be built based on the existing factory pipeline, you can get that car. It might take a month or two, or it might take six months, or maybe never! I found this difficult to believe, especially with such advanced manufacturing processes as Toyota has. Is this reality?

drew_ · March 2001

Oops, the credit goes to my co-host, Steve, not me ;-)

Drew
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daltex · March 2001

You're correct. Toyota has a requisition system that allows dealers to input a vehicle with ONLY the options that a customer wants. IF Toyota accepts the requisition, they will send back a confirmation with the 30-day delivery window. Be aware that this process may take 30, 60, 90 days or more, but if there is a specific combination of options that you want, it can be done. Sure, it's a little more work for the salesperson (as opposed to making a sale TODAY!), but hopefully you'll own your HL for a very long time, so why not wait & get exactly what you want?

A question: Does anyone have any experience with any of the GULF STATES dealerships? (TX, LA, MS, etc.)

renov8r · March 2001

The dealer is a big fat evil LIAR!!!!

Run away and tell Toyota about the "Beige Sand" this dealer is tossing around!

As daltex says Toyota most certainly will accept custom orders. While delivery CAN take longer than for other means, there is also the possibility that it will be no slower than from a domestic based automaker.

My FIL wanted a Camry SE with everything except ABS & sunroof and at first some dealers were trying to steer him into "something on the lot or in the depot" but he stuck to his guns and about 40 days he got his car.

dianne4toyota · March 2001

TDA (Toyota Dealer Assoc) fees are different in different regions. In the Southern CA regional area I am in (LA Metro area) it's approx. 1.25% of the base invoice, but it's "capped" at $300 max. Dealers far south of me, in San Diego area, don't have a "cap" so it's more on more costly cars like HL, Landcruiser, and just about anything with a base cost of $25000 or more. Yes, it means that dealers in Northern CA, way-south southern CA, and even in east coast pay more for the same car I do. It's a "regional" thing. Nothing fishy about it. That's just the way it is.

By the same comparison, you may actually see a trend of people insisting that they went to a small out of the way dealer for a better deal, but that smaller out of the way country dealer also probably pays more for their cars too. One thing balances out the other.

For the fellow in Northern CA at MSRP, an example is that their dealer pays $432 TDA where mine is maxxed at $300. Means my car invoices for $132 cheaper to begin with. Before you say "lucky you", allow me to share with you the flip side of the coin: a dealer in a metro area, I have higher overhead, higher tax costs, higher expenses for employees and far higher costs of flooring and such because they expect me to take more cars and every single car they allocate me, regardless of how many I already have. At times, that $50 or $100 or even $150 a car seems to add up, but it's eatne up just as quickly on a Landcruiser I floor for 4 months in a not-so-great color that I already HAD one of. Flooring on a $52000 car is about 350 a month, and if it sits 4 months, well, you get the picture.

This is big business, and the accountants get to the bottom line quickly and quietly. It all washes out. Believe me.

Di

stever · March 2001

Click on Most Frequently Asked Questions and then drill down to FAQ #12 for Edmunds' take on ad fees. Remember that you can always negotiate an "out-the-door" price to avoid these little $350 surprises.

Steve
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dianne4toyota · March 2001

Anything, from the Echo to the mighty Landcruiser, CAN be built to order. Some faster than others. I have gotten "just the right Tundra or Sequoia" for someone in as little as 4 weeks (not a normal allocated truck, mind you) and some cars like order-built Echos or 4Runners (Japan-built) take 4 months' time. Solara convertibles, really never available in a 4cyl or a V6 "SE" with no extras, are a 3 month turnaround. A dealership with a knowledgeable and willing fleet person will be able to do anything. As long as you have patience.

Matter of fact, there is really only one car we make that I refuse to build order and that's a Landcruiser when someone wants no 3rd seat or rear a/c package. Why? It's a 5 month wait for those, and if something happens and the customer changes their mind, I am stuck with a pretty saleproof rig. The possible sale of the car with no rear seat/rear air isn't worth the risk of the customer not taking the car when it's ready almost half a year later. I am all for the customer but also have to protect the dealership on that one.

Most dealers are "in the moment" but there are those of us like Cliffy and me who are more focused on getting our people exactly what they want vs. stuffing a car down their throats becuase we think it's close enough.

Di

dianne4toyota · March 2001

How about "Partial credit" for being close.

On a special order, it's never a *maybe* 2 months, 4 weeks, 6 months, or maybe never.

There is proper process to go thru that ensures a car will be built. You will get exactly what you want, and in most cases, it's 4-6 weeks for USA or Canada-built Toyotas. Japan built cars are up to 16 weeks.

Lots of dealers do not like this process because it means tracking a car for weeks and months, and watching for it. Candidly, I don't like it either, because it means I have to babysit 20-30 build orders all the time, every day. There are times it takes me over an hour every single morning to carefully check my inventory to see where the sold units are in process, make sure they get the proper PIOs, that they are being built right with color combos requested, and that they don't land without me knowing about it. Would it be easier on me if I didn't have to do that? Oh yes. That's the double edged sword here. I wish I didn't have to, but I do it because people ask me to and because I offer it openly.

Di

pauleul · March 2001

Thanks for the TDA info. Do you know what the fees are in Oregon?

Any knowledge on the aftermarket leather question?

Are you familiar with any dealers within 100 miles of Portland OR. who are decent to work with? I'm one of those who orders and doesn't care how long it takes to get. Out of about 30 cars purchased in my life, at least half were factory order (American). I have generally found it much easier to get a good price that way. No flooring cost and on repeat orders from same dealer, we both know what to expect from each other and we usually do it all over the phone until the vehicle arrives. I offer what I consider a fair price and don't shop it when a dealer accepts my price. I only do no trade - no finance deals which doesn't excite dealers much since those are two more opportunities for them to make more $$$$$$.

drew_ · March 2001

"It is not known what inspired Neil to want to begin racing cars, but what IS known is about his love of cars. Neil Chirico, Road Test Editor for Edmunds.com is ready to answer your questions about the many cars that he has test-driven. Neil also brings you a wealth of knowledge concerning the many questions that you will have about vehicle service, having been in the trenches as a service advisor at the dealership level for many years. Don't miss having your questions answered by one of Edmunds best.

When:
Tues, March 13th (Tonight) at 5-6pm Pacific/8-9pm Eastern

Click on the link below to read more about/to enter the chat:
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/chiricochat031301.html

Drew
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grplavloff · March 2001

"toyota usa breaks up the use into selling regions. each region has its own Advertising Fee (TDA) based on a % of the price of the car in question. ex. ...."

etc, etc, ad naus.

Imagine you went for a job interview, and somewhere along the way you were asked "what kind of salary are you looking for ?" And you sat there and said "well, my daughter takes voice lessons, they cost $35 a week, and my son is in the midget football league, that's $20 a week and oh yeah, I'm paying off a coupla hundred a month on my Visa card...so, let's see, add that to what I need for food...."

These Toyota people have you coming and going. Why the heck should you care one iota about what dealer A is paying vs dealer B ??? What you need to get from them is their bottom line price and go with the best one. How they go about it is their problem, not yours. Once they convince you otherwise, you are lost.

bobincanada · March 2001

Has anyone asked for second row captain's chairs? My 91 Previa, with four captain's chairs, has comfort for four adults and can accomodate the length of skiis and poles for all four in the center channel. Our new vehicle must meet this criteria. I would prefer the HL but have seen no discussion on second row seating options. I know that the Sienna has the option but because the third row seats tumble forward, they block the center channel and therefore one must be removed. I have emailed Toyota but have not had any response.

pauleul · March 2001

I disagree. I expect you will almost always pay more if you simply ask dealer A and B what their best price is and then accept the lowest. First, I wouldn't know if the price was fair if I didn't know as much as possible about what their true cost for the vehicle was. Second, lets face it, they are there and in business for a reason - to make money. I have learned I can buy any vehicle I want for $500 over TRUE invoice cost. Sometimes that takes trying to deal with several dealers, sometimes it means waiting a few months. Sooner or later, there is always a dealer hungry enough to except that figure. Usually, the only time you can do better than that is when their are additional factory incentives. Sometimes, it is impossible for the consumer to find out just what they are. You can't do worse when you are armed with more knowledge. You can do much worse when you don't have a clue what you're doing. Worse yet, if you are willing to believe everything dealers tell you, you must be operating on less than 4 cylinders!

tonychrys · March 2001

"You can do much worse when you don't have a glue.."

Llloyd Bridges in Airplane!: "Damn, I picked a bad week to give up sniffing glue."

daltex · March 2001

Is anybody having success finding a 2WD with VSC? (Also, is anyone else in the TX-OK-LA area?)

pauleul · March 2001

Thanks Tony!

dianne4toyota · March 2001

You asked to have the TDA explained. I did so.

Don't like the answer? Dunno what to tell you. That's how things work. All I can say is that if you don't like the way Toyota Motors handles their invoices in Detroit, Seattle, or Los Angeles, then don't become a dealer there. Besides, truthfully, why should you be so concerned about what the invoice is. Be more concerned about the price you are paying. Not what a dealer pays.

tonychrys · March 2001

You're welcome! Just trying to lighten things up ;-)

dianne4toyota · March 2001

The issue has arisen here and in my email about the fact that a dealer who pays less will make a better deal. Woohoo, whatta can of worms! Now, this is always a matter of opinion on any and all cars, but it isn't always the case. A dealership's decision (sales manager, fleet manager) to take a specific deal at any given time is often subject to trade value and possibility of its resale, interest rate issues with lease or buy, one-way problems, and even down to the finance manager's ability to make a long-term warranty make sense, and sell it to you too.

I could type for HOURS on the things I have seen and heard and how I feel about this. I have folks checking with me all the time about their deals in their states, and asking for advice in regards to these things. I believe it's a privilege to be here as a recommended dealer/fleet manager by so many in this and other arenas that I do take the time to reply to everyone with as best advice as I feel suitable. When I ask someone where they are geographically, it's to get a feel for their market area, not to see if it's worthwhile to answer! I can't tell you what a 4WD ought to sell for unless I know if you are in Tennessee, Tallahasse, or Upstate NY!

To end this rambling on here of thoughts, I have to say it isn't always about 'what a dealer's invoice is' vs. the next. I know for a fact that I, in the past, have given someone $x. amount more for a trade-in because it was worth more here than in their own area. Same can go the other way as well. And, when someone comes to a dealer who's advertising loss-leaders to bring trafficv to the store and someone wants the car n the ad, do you think they offer them their 7.5% if it's financing available? Usually not. Consider that there are many components to a deal. TDA for the invocie on a Toyota is the least of your worries!

Di

709matwes · March 2001

Just picked up my Loaded Limited V6 AWD HL last night! Philly suburbs. Great Car for those of you still trying to decide. Purchased for 5% over invoice and about $2700 under MSRP, seemed like that was close to the best of deals others were getting on this message board so I took it. Thanks for everyones comments they helped me make my decision alot eaiser!

mcw317 · March 2001

I was expecting to pick up a Bluestone HL this weekend...but my dealer called and told me they have stopped production of this color!! Something about them not being happy with the quality of the paint....has anyone else heard this?? I love this color....but may have to choose a different one. What colors have you all bought? Anyone have the red one? Is it a dark red or bright red...are the colors close to what is in the brochure? Can you tell I'm beside myself!! I've seen 2 gold ones around town and heard there is a green one....I sure wanted to be the first Bluestone!!

The dealer said they may fix the "problem" with the quality of this color and start production on them again...but do I really want one in a color they have questioned??!!! He also said of course he has no idea of the time frame of this stoppage....AYYYYY!!!

rubytuesday · March 2001

My Limited HL has 2WD, with VSC. I've seen several units here on the dealer lot with the VSC (2WD) But, I'm in Hawaii. So, it is possible to get or find, but maybe not at a dealer near you. Just the allocated units sent here happened to have it or the dealer requested them. Since it doesn't snow here (except at Mauna Kea), I may never need it. I hope !

Bobincanada, I am not the expert on this but I don't think Toyota currently has a option for changing the rear seat on the HL to Captain's chairs. The seat has a 40/60 split and there would still be room for two people to sit if you folded down the 40% side. You can also get the roof rack to put the skis on.

dianne4toyota · March 2001

Bluestone stopped? Nah. More like the region where your dealer is stopped requesting them for whatever odd reason. It's my most popular color.

That CRAP (and it is CRAP) about paint quality is an excuse to sell you what they CAN obtain more easily. Logically, might I ask, if they are all painted in Japan and treated with clearcoat, why would ONE color have poor paint quality? That's a good one. Or, actually, it's one of the worst. Did his nose grow right afterwards?

Di

cliffy1 · March 2001

I take one day off and ya'll start asking all these juicy questions. Good thing Dianne was around to say precisely what I was going to say about TDA, orders, bluestone and a few other things.

dianne4toyota · March 2001

A day off? How'd ya get one of those?

:

GMTA?
DW

rrmcdonald · March 2001

I have a Sundown Red Pearl 2WD Limited with VSC (Tallahassee), so they are available in the SE region, at least. The Sundown Red is not a bright red, but more like a burnt red-only one in town and we like it. Our brochure had the color strip included and the color strip was right on. The picture of the red HL in the brochure is a little too red.

john_lise · March 2001

Is it worth getting extended warranty on a HL? Does anyone know any 4 runner owners who have had their vehicle for more than 5 years? Any serious repairs done? was it expensive? Is it worth speding $1500-$2000 now to save ???? later.

Diane...Cliff...any comments!!!

still a very happy owner of a black V6 AWD LTD,
John

cliffy1 · March 2001

All warranties are a gamble and most of what you are buying is peace of mind. Its like buying health insurance when you are young. You doubt you'll ever use it and it feels like a waste of money. If you ever *need* it, you're sure glad you have it.

I can't answer your question. It is up to you to decide how much you're willing to spend to know you can't have a major mechanical expense.

dianne4toyota · March 2001

How much for that warranty on HL? That's the only thing I question, because that $1500/2000 is what?

skyreb · March 2001

I think cliffy1 (#1243) said it all .... it is a gamble. I did not purchase the warranty, and quite frankly, with 1500 miles on my HL, the vehicle is earning my confidence that it would have been a waste of money. I really appreciate Toyota quality, and feel the HL is among the best of the best. I was reading a new review on MSN, and they certainly seem to have come to the same conclusion I have ..... the HL is a real winner.

Unrelated to warranty information, but I just returned from a 360 mile trip .... better than 23 mpg. I have never gotten below 21 mpg, so I am real pleased. I suspect come summer, my mileage will be in the 23-25 mpg range. That friends, is pretty darn good for a Unlimited, V6, AWD.

I hope everyone is enjoying theirs as much as I am.
Happy Motoring.

dniehus · March 2001

From John Lise's profile he's Canadian. Perhaps his $1500-2000 was in Canadian dollars. Otherwise, VERY high. Also he didn't indicate what plan he was pricing. The most expensive would be Platinum, 6 yr/100,000 miles. A Toyota dealer in Iowa is selling that plan for $900. Their website is: www.toyotawarranty.com Not sure if there is a problem with selling to Canadians. I presume the policy is good at all North American Toyota dealerships (perhaps not in Mexico???).

dniehus · March 2001

Would you mind sharing the name of the dealer? If preferred, you may send me an email (dniehus@erols.com) Thanks!

jblaze13 · March 2001

I have to hold the key a couple of seconds to get my Highlander to start. Is this a Toyota thing (obviously my first)?

gluiz · March 2001

I ended up getting the Platinum 6/75k for $1100. I know this is not the best deal but the I got one added benefit. I get a refund if I don't make a claim against it. Nobody really cares how much you pay if you end up using it and just regret wasting money if you don't use it. This way it really doesn't matter. BTW, yes I got it in writing.

gtalavera · March 2001

Does anyone know if Toyota will add fender flare similar to the 4runner on the highlander. It might add a different look to it. If anyone knows of an aftermarket that can fit the highlander with these fender trims let me know.

frankaart · March 2001

I AM LOOKING TO BUY A 2001 HIGHLANDER IN THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA AREA. V-6,MIL SILVER WITH GRY CLOTH. THE OPTIONS I WANT ARE: DR,SR,TO,AG,CQ,HE AND CF. I AM WILLING TO PAY NO MORE THEN $26,000.IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS GOTTEN A DEAL ON THIS MODEL EMAIL ME WITH THE PRICE AND DEALER YOU BOUGHT IT AT. MY EMAIL ADRESS IS FRANKAART@AOL.COM......ART

nathaniel1040 · March 2001

I have just looked at the HL at my local dealer and am waiting for him to call me back with a price. I am wondering if anyone in NC or the surrounding states could share what prices they have seen in relation to MSRP. Any information would be appreciated.

svtcobraconv · March 2001

I am probably way, way in the minority, but I would sure rather have a space saver spare than lugging around a full size wheel and tire as found in the Highlander. In my opinion, the space used for the full sized spare would be better utilized for a larger storage compartment.

Does Toyota offer a space saver that would fit the Highlander?

cliffy1 · March 2001

Very normal Toyota trait. I've even heard a theory as to why Toyota does this. It is to build pressure in some vapor recovery system related to the fuel lines. I have no idea what this actually means, but the consequence is that the engine takes 4 to 8 turns before it will fire.

Toyota Highlander

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