Stories from the Sales Frontlines

sterlingdog · April 2011

Sounds good. Just make sure that the test stain covers a big enough area for you to really visualize the end result. If you do new cabinets, don't forget the roll out shelves and the Lazy Susans. They are just wonderful features. Good luck.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

LOL! I didn't follow any of the recommendations here either. The research drove me crazy---too many pros and cons for each brand.

Richard

robr2 · April 2011

Just as important:

european hinges
soft close drawers
full extension drawers
soft close doors

sterlingdog · April 2011

No, you didn't. Your emails were about car warranties---much appreciated. It doesn't matter. I would never have worked on the dishwasher. I'm lucky if I can push the correct button.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

You're so right. I love the full extension drawers.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

We have a Rolls/Bentley dealer just 90 minutes from us---in Greensboro, NC. Bring me a Rolls back and i'll have it maintianed.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

I'm glad that you had such a good experience and got a replacement free. That's wonderful. I wasn't as fortunate one month after the warranty ended. They essentially told me that the problem was mine. This was our second Kenmore that wasn't worth a crap. Never again. Then again, the Frigidaire may be as bad. One never knows.

You've had four dishwashers in that house since 1998?! That's one every three years! At least my sorry Kenmore lasted five years. Actually, it still works. It just stopped cleaning dishes. :confuse: :sick:

Richard

imidazol97 · April 2011

>would never have worked on the dishwasher.

I'm sorry. But I recall thinking about that at the time. It's only a couple of layers of stuff at the bottom and the parts literally snap out. But I recall thinking if I had one many years old, that I might not be as eager to dig into it and would instead select a new one. I really like the engineering for repairability of the Whirlpool products.

Friends had bought Whirlpool Cabrio washer when they were first out. We bought a few years later. His had a noise during spin cycle and I used forums and diagrams to diagnose as a bearing supporting the whole moving basket, Theirs is about 7 years old with several loads done each and every day. It wore and a few have a bearing get noisy. I told him to price a new one at Lowes with all their sales. I gave him the number for their Lowes while we were on the phone. He called. The list price for washer was $999; Lowes typically sells below that, I believe. But it was on sale for 2 more days at $599. Do you pay $275 for the whole outer tub with the bearing built in plus two service calls for someone to replace the whole plastic outer drum, or do you pay $599 for a newer model with more features, etc...? Of course, he bought the new one the next day and kept the old one to put in the basement as a second washer after he gets around to snapping it apart and repairing it for the kids to use in the basement.

sterlingdog · April 2011

We were actually prepared to purchase a Whirlpool dishwasher. We had one years ago that was great. When we looked at the new Whirlpool, the flatware basket in the door was very small. My wife said that it just wouldn't do because we use so much flatware with cooking and serving. The Frigidaire has the largest flatware basket of any dishwasher. Hope that is a good sign.

Thanks for the thought, though it's a done deal. They deliver on Monday. We got a good price on it at Lowe's...$100 off regular price.

Richard

nyccarguy · April 2011

If you are renovating your master bathroom & need advice about which fixtures (faucet & shower body) to use or not use (Kohler), don't hesitate to ask.

jmonroe · April 2011

I wonder if the Kenmore washer was made by Whirlpool.

Yes, the dishwasher was made by Whirlpool and it had the highest consumer rating of all their dishwashers but I must have gotten a lemon, or did I.

imid, being a DIYer, youll appreciate this.

Before I called back to talk to the Sears regional appliance sales manager, I was preparing myself for doing the repair myself. I called a local independent appliance and service center to see if they had the control unit. While Im talking to this very experienced repair guy he says, I dont think its the control unit. I think its the touch panel but Im not positive. It could be either one. The down side is once you buy it (either one) its yours. I dont have that problem since if one doesnt fix the problem I replace the other unit. Ive seen this happen before and Ive used a, warm not hot, hair dryer to go over the face of the touch panel for a couple minutes to get rid of the moisture that could be causing the problem. Its worth a try. I said, that really works? :surprise: Its a sealed touch panel, where does the moisture go? He said, out the back where it got in to begin with.

I left early from work that day and when I got home, after I called the Sears manager and got the good news about them replacing the bad dishwasher, I tried the hair dryer thingy. It worked. :confuse: When Mrs. jmonroe got home I showed her that the dishwasher was now working, just like new. Just to have some fun I told her to use the hair dryer if it ever acted up again. I get this look like HUH then she said, and you buy that flimsy fix? :mad:

Man, do they get touchy when a dishwasher goes on the blink. Now I know not to play games when that happens.

Like Ive said before, there are two dishwashers in our house, one is quiet and the other makes noise.

jmonroe

stickguy · April 2011

Oh, an expert! You will be sorry you offered my man.

I am interested in replacing the gigantic soaking tub with an acre of decking with a stand alone taller (soaking) tub. Not an old fashioned claw foot, but a more modern version of that. Any suggestions, and rough pricing?

also, what do you recommend for a shower pan/enclosure that is the best combination of cost and function (I expect to tile, so it may just be the base, but is there anything interesting with wall systems these days?)

I am sure to have more questions later!

stickguy · April 2011

The place i stopped at had really nice cabinets. thick plywood wides, full extension soft close glides, all the goodies. And i really would love some of the neat features (pull out drawers, etc).

But, just like when I shop for cars, it will come down to lust vs. $.

robr2 · April 2011

If you are renovating your master bathroom & need advice about which fixtures (faucet & shower body) to use or not use (Kohler), don't hesitate to ask.

Are you in the business?

robr2 · April 2011

I am interested in replacing the gigantic soaking tub with an acre of decking with a stand alone taller (soaking) tub. Not an old fashioned claw foot, but a more modern version of that. Any suggestions, and rough pricing?

There are some nice free standing soakers out there in more modern styles. I don't want to get punished for solicitating but the brand my company reps will run between $6,000 and $14,500.

also, what do you recommend for a shower pan/enclosure that is the best combination of cost and function

Get a basic acrylic pan or build your own using Schluter products. Personally, I'd go with an linear drain system and skip the pan.

stickguy · April 2011

thanks. I assume a linear system is when the drain is a slot at the back edge of the shower? I have seen that, and it looks neat.

14K for a tub? My heart just skipped a beat. Might be Richard's zip code, but not mine! If you can't get one at a reasonable price (it is just a tall bath tub!) the old beast will just stay, with new tile on the deck.

jmonroe · April 2011

has anyone had experience with re-staining kitchen cabinets?

Years ago I did my share of woodworking and to completely remove stain to change the color is almost impossible to get it done like fresh wood. Especially, with raised panel doors in a kitchen and having so many of them. Itll be a tough job to get it to match the way you want it to look.
Id consider replacing the doors and just concentrating on the flat rails and stiles on the cabinet box. At least then you have a chance with a belt sander but you will have dust EVERYWHERE, believe me, even with a good belt sander with a dust collection bag and a vacuum attachment.

Painting is probably the least expensive way to go but Im not a fan of painted kitchen cabinets because they require too much care to prevent chipping. I have had a little success with painting cabinets but you have to put at least two coats of a clear water varnish (water varnish so the color doesnt yellow) and lightly sand between coats after painting. Three coats are best but youll be living, full time, in that kitchen to get it done right with paint if youre the one that will be doing it. Dont let anyone tell you that the paint they use wont chip because they havent made that paint yet.

they are just very dated looking (a washed/pickled oak finish that was popular in the early 90s), with an almost pink tinge.

Thats the finish we have and when we moved back to the Burgh in 97 Mrs. j wanted that color since she liked it so much from when we built a house in SC in 92 that had that finish. When we did the counter tops and appliances in January 2010, I thought shed be tired of looking at that finish for all those years but for some reason she kept saying to everybody, Im not getting rid of a color that I still like (way to go girl, saved me gobs of bucks with that decision

). The Black granite top and stainless appliances are a perfect contrast for that light pickled oak finish.

Come over at any time and Ill show you.

jmonroe

robr2 · April 2011

I assume a linear system is when the drain is a slot at the back edge of the shower?

Correct. You can install it anywhere in the shower are but most put it across the opening. Great for modern styling and for barrier free systems.

14K for a tub?

It's a really, really nice tub.

stickguy · April 2011

I am not touching these babies. I am considering painting my bathroom vanity, but that is already painted so not a big deal. And if I screw it up, I get to rip it out and put in a new vanity!

I am still waiting to hear back from the painter with a price quote, and I have a kitchen designer coming tomorrow to do a sketch and estimate. And if he ever shows up, a contractor to do an install estimate.

I will compare that vs. the restain option, and if redo is too much and the stain is more than I want to risk, we will do the bathroom instead!

much, mush easier to buy a car than do all this work. It is like you have to beg people to come out and take 10's of thousands of your $!

mako1a · April 2011

I am interested in replacing the gigantic soaking tub

I hear ya. This house came with the same thing.

A tub so large that the water heater runs out before the tub is full.

I'd like to replace it with a smaller jacuzzi and a bidet,

but I'm afraid they'll mess up the perfect tile job already in place.

stickguy · April 2011

for 14K, it needs to come with something in it that I best not mention on a family forum.

in 13 years, we have used to giant tub we have maybe 5 times. mostly we dust it every so often. I would not even have it, but was told to keep one for resale.

robr2 · April 2011

I'd like to replace it with a smaller jacuzzi

Please note that Jacuzzi TM is a trademark name. Apollo Management LP likes to remind us of that. The proper term is whirlpool tub.

a bidet

Bidets are pretty rare but people who have them, love them. An option is a Washlet from Toto - it's a replacement seat with air and water built in.

driver100 · April 2011

We have a Rolls/Bentley dealer just 90 minutes from us---in Greensboro, NC. Bring me a Rolls back and i'll have it maintianed.

The guy who wouldn't drive 60 minutes to the Mercedes dealer :sick:

mako1a · April 2011

Please note that Jacuzzi TM is a trademark name.

OK, I'll take a whirlpool tub and a washlet.

Just get this waste of space garden tub out of here.

Or maybe one of those side opener sit down old folks bath units.

driver100 · April 2011

potatoe famine
So he's not only Canadian but a Republican to boot!

OK, Ok, you say potayto I say potahtoe.

Anyway, I was writing in a seedy internet place..one euro per hour....with hardly any light and a space bar that only works if you slam it twice. Potatoe should have been potato but when it is more than one it becomes potatoes.

But what has this got to do with Republicans or Dan Quail.

In Dublin we saw nice americans yesterday who said no matter what Obama does the nay sayers say he is wrong. Today we saw Americans who said Obama was visiting Ireland soon and he is always traveling and not doing enough at home.

I am staying neutral, it's just a vacation.

jmonroe · April 2011

It is like you have to beg people to come out and take 10's of thousands of your $!

Now you know why, if at all possible, I do things myself.

I can screw it up at least as good as they can and it doesn't cost me nearly as much.

jmonroe

stickguy · April 2011

I believe in that theory, to the extent I have the tools and basic knowledge required. simple but time consuming is my specialty. I also never pay anyone to paint interior.

got my stain quote back. not bad. $925 complete. It is a pretty big kitchen (10 uppers, 12 lowers, a desk, bathroom vanity, and a few assorted side panels).

need to verify if that assume I am taking the doors and hardware off or they will do it!

I do want to replace the hardware and hinges anyway if I keep this set of cabinets, so that labor has to happen anyway.

will decide which way to go once I meet with the kitchen designer and contractor, but staining is gonna save a whole boatload of money, that likely gets redirected right into the master bath.

tjc78 · April 2011

I can tell you that 925 will buy you maybe three cabinets. My kitchen is very small (4 lowers, and 5 uppers) and the cabinet bill was 3300. This wasn't for anything super fancy (plywood sides, white finish, soft close full extend drawers). That price includes some crown molding for the tops (that we are on the fence about even installing so it is sitting in the boxes in the basement).

sterlingdog · April 2011

Yes, I would be very interested in knowing what fixtures (faucet & shower body) that you recommend. With your experience, you should know.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

"Are you in the business?"

He is a third generation plumbing business owner. I have to figure that he is a walking text book on bath and kitchen fixtures.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

"Might be Richard's zip code..."

Not this Richard. I enjoy nice things, but a $14K bath tub would be at the bottom of my list, and probably not even on my list.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

Whether to paint kitchen cabinets depends on the style home that you own. If it's Victorian, Tudor, or Old Cape Cod---all with some age, then they can really look nice. When we owned an 1890 Victorian, we painted them for the look. In a newer home, I wouldn't recommend it. You are correct about the stain. It's very hard to achieve a fresh, new look with previously stained cabinets. I've seen it done a few times, but it takes many hours of sanding, staining, sanding, and staining, etc. It's not for the DIYs; it takes a real professional finisher to make it right.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

We had a whirlpool tub in the upstairs bath in our last house. We had that house for three years and used the tub perhaps twice. Three months after we sold the house, the new owners heard a loud crash in the middle of the night. The whirlpool tub had a long standing leak that we knew nothing about. The leak rotted the floor and finally the tub came crashing through the ceiling to the family roon floor below. Naturally, the new owner sued his house inspector for damages. The owner did win a sizeable settlement.

Three months after that, the house began sinking. It reached the point that the owners couldn't open the patio doors. It grew worse until the bottom step to the front door disappeared beneath the earth. The walls began to get bad cracks and the kitchen and bathrooms suffered severe cracks in all of the floor tiles. One morning there was a loud moaning noise. The oversized two car garage sank over a foot. Finally, a geologist was called in to survey the problem. An underground stream leading to the creek beside our house had decided to reactivate itself. The stream ran under the house. Who knew? The cost of repair: $30K to jack up the house and do repairs; $20K to block off the stream and redirect it; $50K to repair walls ,put in new tile flooring, repair wiring and plumbing, etc. There's nothing like having to get a $100K second mortgage.

The worst tragedy came six months later. The poor owner lost his job due to down sizing. He and his wife just walked away from the house. Three years later, the house is still on the market. Everyone has heard the stories and no one will touch it. Of our 14 houses, it was our favorite---absolutely beautiful home in every way. We felt so sorry for the young couple and their three teenage children. They returned to Michigan to live with his parents. If we hadn't decided to retire and move away, we would have been faced with this terrible problem. Life works in very strange ways.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

"The guy who wouldn't drive 60 minutes to the Mercedes dealer."

You are correct. I wouldn't drive 60 minutes to have the oil changed in a Mercedes. I WOULD drive 90 minutes to have the oil changed in a Rolls Royce. As I see it, there is just no comparison.

My father used to smoke nothing but Camel cigarettes. He agreed with the slogan "Walk a mile for a Camel".

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

"But what has this got to do with Republicans or Dan Quail."

That would be "Quayle" followed by a question mark. Republican Dan Quayle, on a visit to an elementary school, corrected a child by telling him to add an "e"---as you did. Unfortunately, the media was there to tape this. Though I always found Dan Quayle to be a decent guy, he was forever making a faux pas of some sort in public.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

"I can screw it up at least as good as they can..."

I can screw it up worse than they can. Now I need a new wireless router. I'll buy it but I sure as hell won't plug it in myself. :P

Richard

stickguy · April 2011

I just hooked up a new one yesterday. It was exceptionally easy to do. the instructions are pictograms, and the plugs/wires are color coded. And if you have one in place already, you skip half the steps!

plug in wires and power plug in the order instructed, and at the end, put in a CD, click "ok", and you are done.

oh, you do have to enter a network name and access password, but a smart guy like you ca probably handle that!

I got a netgear (model 6400) and it has been great so far.

stickguy · April 2011

once I get the estimates to do a full gut job, and my heart stops palpitating, I may give the stain job a shot. It is not that much of an investment so if we hate it, can always replace them anyway. So, probably worth a shot.

and the current color is pretty grungy, and we really need a new floor, and i won't put that in if I don't plan to keep the cabinets as long as the house.

nyccarguy · April 2011

Like Richard said, I am in the plumbing supply business. I'm actually 4th generation.

Brand power is amazing. Kohler products are gorgeous, but they are expensive garbage. Back in the day Kohler used to make very high quality, long lasting products. Nowadays they spend most of their money on marketing & pretty.

imidazol97 · April 2011

>The leak rotted the floor and finally the tub came crashing through the ceiling to the family roon floor below.

That sounds like the animations of what can happen due to structure problems on Holmes on Homes, an HGTV show on Sunday nights. It's my Saturday Night Live substitute. I love that show. Mike Holmes is always amazed at what's behind the surface when he tears into repairing something simple: it becomes difficult.

I like the show even more since I tore into my most recent home ~~demolition~~ , errr, I mean remodeling. Our family room has a fireplace with brick over that whole width of the room up to a mantle which stretchs the whole width. Above that was paneling to the ceiling. I always liked the paneling but decided, after a decade or so of my wife's urging, to remove paneling and paint the wallboard to match the rest of the room.

I tore into the paneling and there was indeed drywall behind. I got to the middle of the wall and there was naked brick from the fireplace's flue with no drywall. The drywall had been torn away, probably to chase a leak. Of course the leak would have been from the crown on top or at the roof contact with the brick of the chimney--not in the family room level. But they hadn't put the drywall back. A day long project had just turned into a week.

So I asked my long time friend from KY who had been in the remodeling business to come help me patch in the large drywall piece. He also brought and left his power sander with vacuum for me to smooth the drywall compound. He applied an initial special compound and then I did two more leveling coats of standard compound. He also left me a power planer and sander to resurface the large wood mantle timber.

A friend in need is a friend indeed.

imidazol97 · April 2011

>It is not that much of an investment so if we hate it, can always replace them anyway. So, probably worth a shot.

Take your kitchen layout to a good designer and see what extra features and special cabinet types he/she can add into your current layout. Our designer gained us lots of extra cabinet space to enlarge storage compared to the original design of the home.

Then after seeing what extra features are available, you might want to make the big step now. My wife loves the rollout shelves in certain cabinets, the extra vertical slot for storing cookie trays and other narrow equipment, and the glass doors on some of the overhead cabinets.

We too looked at painting the original, quality upgraded cabinets that were in the house when built. But decided to go full redo. I tore everything out, replumbed the sink to move it over a couple of feet and upgraded and moved my electrical for the stove, microwave, refrigerator adding undercabinet and above cabinet lighting controlled by a wall switch.

roadburner · April 2011

The house we live in was built by my parents in 1974; the builders were first rate, but it needed updating. We started with the kitchen- tearing out all the cabinets and knocking down the load bearing wall between the kitchen and family room. It was a lot of work, but at least I was able to upgrade my home theater to 7.1 and run decent wiring to each wall-mounted speaker.

tallman1 · April 2011

I'll buy it but I sure as hell won't plug it in myself.

I don't think plugging in is your problem... it's unplugging that gets you into trouble.

driver100 · April 2011

Though I always found Dan Quayle to be a decent guy, he was forever making a faux pas of some sort in public.

Well, I don't always make faux pas in public....just sometimes.

driver100 · April 2011

It grew worse until the bottom step to the front door disappeared beneath the earth. The walls began to get bad cracks and the kitchen and bathrooms suffered severe cracks in all of the floor tiles.

Remind me, no matter how beautiful it might be, never to buy a used house or a car from you. The houses seem to self destruct, and the cars either fall apart or have mud and dog c---- all over them. :P

By the way, how is the new little dog doing...did he get house trained and has he settled down?

graphicguy · April 2011

I travel a lot, for both business and pleasure. As such, I rent a lot of cars. I can honestly say that over the course of probably the last 5 years, the change in quality and engineering in the American models, as well as the foreign budget models (thinking Kia and Hyundai) has been dramatic.

Probably the rental that stands out most was a Kia Soul which I rented about 5-6 months ago. I see new ones advertised in the newspaper routinely for $12K (discounted). So, they're about the least expensive cars I've seen currently. The quality of the materials, while not Honda or Cadillac grade, was certainly more than I had any expectation it would be. Plus, being a rental with over 10K miles on the odo, it was still rattle free. It handled relatively well, drove smooth, and was rather "zippy". In all, if I needed a cheap runabout, I would actually consider buying one.

On the opposite end of that spectrum, I just finished turning in as a rental.....a Chevy Impala. This example was almost new (less than 4K miles). As soon as I shut the front door (which sounded like "tin can slammed against tin can", literally, I knew this was not going to be a good experience.

Message to the General, if you're truly trying to build better cars, start right here....your Impala. Tell the accountants to take a month off while you re-engineer it and buy parts to use with it. You'll be doing yourself a huge favor.

While I'm certain that it's a base model, as rental companies tend to buy those to rent, it was clear that maybe if Chevy would have invested, or I dunno, maybe another $20 upgrading materials, the experience would have been much better. Dials and buttons wallowed in their slots. There was absolutely no sense they were engineered, manufactured or installed correctly (probably because they weren't).

Understand that my previous Tahoe had a very similar center stack, and that it cost probably 2.5x-3x more than the Impala, so I was relatively familiar with the controls, but these seemed inordinately complex and confusing (this coming from an Acura owner, to boot). Would it have cost that much more money to make the power windows one touch down/up? Especially for Chevy's flagship sedan?

Did they actually test drive this vehicle before telling their dealers this was a good car? It took minute steering corrections to a whole new level.....steering was disconcerting, to the point where it was a chore to keep the car in its lane. It wasn't the tires (although those could have been improved too). It was the way they engineered the suspension.

In fairness, the car was quiet inside (when it wasn't rattling). And, the engine was smooth. It had a lot of room. That's where it starts and ends, though. I could say the same thing about the $12K Kia, which I'd prefer over the Impala.....by a large margin.

End of rant short of that will be the very last Impala I will ever rent. Even with huge discounts, I can't see anyone actually liking this car enough to buy it. Guess I'm wrong, and obviously in the minority. There are a lot of them on the road. Maybe they're all rentals.

sterlingdog · April 2011

"...how is the new little dog doing..."

I suppose that you have noticed that I never mention the dog. The new (a year old) little (now at 60 pounds) has been a great disappointment. I say this coming from two people who love dogs very much. Coco finally got house trained---took forever. That is the extent of his successful training. We spent eight weeks in puppy school---total disaster; he learned nothing and resisted all training. His jumping, biting, and licking is terrible. He spent two weeks with a special trainer who had experience with difficult dogs. She said that he was the most stubborn and strong willed dog that she had ever seen. No good results there. You can't even pet him or enjoy him. We have given up. He is on the adoption list with the agency where we bought him. i feed him each morning and he goes out to our large back yard for the day. He has destroyed the back yard---deep holes dug all over the yard, flowers ruined, shrubs torn apart, etc. He ate the cable wires attached to the house and dug up the irrigation wires. I had the irrigation wires encased in PVC pipes, and moved the cable wires to a new location. We bring him in at dinner time. He eats, plays with only one toy that he likes, and goes to bed for the night. That's the routine. If we go out of town, the boarding place can't wait for us to pick him up when we return. Our vet believes that there is a real psychological problem with Coco. It's been a tough and sad experience. Perhaps it is us at our age, but we've always had success with dogs. After this, I doubt that we will ever get another one. When and if he gets adopted, we will have a major bill to get the back yard back in place. We can't take him out in public. It takes too much strength to control him on the leash. We would never have him put down. We'll just have to find the right person who will adopt him.

Richard

sterlingdog · April 2011

LOL! You may have a point there.

Richard

tjc78 · April 2011

Message to the General, if you're truly trying to build better cars, start right here....your Impala.

In all fairness the Impala is one of the last cars of the "old GM" It is based on an old platform (W body circa 1988) and uses pushrod V6s. It is largely a rental/fleet unit. It isn't a particularly bad car, but the smaller Malibu surpasses it in many ways. It will be phased out soon, from what I have read.

604doc · April 2011

While in Nebraska last week, my rental car was a Ford Fusion SEL.

It was actually a very nice car. It had all the bells and whistles except leather, and it was a bit anemic, so I assume it had a 4 cylinder engine.

It had Sirius radio activated, which I have in my own car, so that was a nice bonus. I didn't play around with the Ford Sync system very much, but getting my phone to couple with the bluetooth was quick and easy. I didn't upload my phone book for obvious reasons, so I never made a call, but did receive a few. Worked really well.

The ride was a little soft for my taste, but the steering felt just right, not too loose, and not too twitchy.

The dual climate control worked well, although I didn't see a switch that would allow the driver to control both sides at once. It may have been there though.

The interior was nice. Fit and finish was good, and the plastic on the dash and door panels, etc., were soft and seemed to be decent quality.

If I was in the market for a sedan, I would seriously consider one of these. I saw one that said "sport" on the back, so I assume they make one with firmer suspension and a 6 cylinder.

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