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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    edited June 2012
    Aren’t you the one that doesn’t want your bimmers when they are out of warranty?

    While I am one to certainly say any car make has its problems, I sure as heck wouldn't own one out of warranty. They can be very fussy and expensive. Many people on these boards have had very good luck with them, however, they have also had issues.

    The other night after dinner, my Fiance walked the car lots next the restaurant. It just happens to be three high line dealers in a row (Caddy, BMW and Lexus) Stick knows the place I'm sure.

    Anyway, while looking at the BMWs I just can't see what all the fuss is. I guess because I don't go for ultra precise handling, etc they don't do it for me. Then I get to the Lexus lot and I start to drool. Different strokes I guess.

    I was kind of indifferent at the Caddy dealer. The CTS coupe is stunning, but until the XTS comes out nothing that I'd "had to have" there.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • js06gvjs06gv Frisco, TXPosts: 181
    Correct, it just took a lot of effort compared to the butter smooth clutches one would find in the Japanese competition at the time. Clutch was improved for 92 and up, but not by much. Not sure why they were like that, unless a more heavy duty clutch was necessary to deal with the hp and torque of the engine. My Trans Am has an additional 100 hp over that SHO though, and the clutch is much lighter. However, we are talking about an 8 year newer vehicle and better technology.

    2014 Kia Optima SX Turbo, 2013 Ford F-150 King Ranch, 2011 Ford Mustang GT, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,736
    That's a nice red. To me, it's amazing the car ever got made at all.
    My wife and I had the first year models of the first 3 generations.
    There were some issues, but they were fun to drive.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,638
    Guess you had Mexican at On the Border? Since as far as I know nothing went in where Macaroni Grill used to be.

    I don't mind Lexus. My wife got interested in the RX but seems to have lost it quickly. thought it was odd looking, and expensive.

    the X3 is really nice overall though. But, BMWs are extremely expensive.

    Caddy is not on our radar. I really did not care that much for the new SRX.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,577
    edited June 2012
    As for the Blazer. I have a 99 S10 pickup (same thing as Blazer) and the interior is really bad. The recliner lever has broken off, the center console is loose as heck, the defroster vent has cracked in several pieces... but it can sit for a month and fire right up.

    I have to say that my 1999 Wrangler has held up extremely well; there's a small crack in one door panel, but other than that no real issues. No rust, everything works, and it has been dead nuts reliable. I recently cleaned it up inside and out and it looks brand new. My son wants to drive it since the 2002 has no A/C(oh the humanity...)

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    Yes, and Don Pablos is better, but we had a gift card so it was free! Nothing beats La Esperanza in Lindenwold if you are going Mexican.

    My Fiancé said the SRX was nice but she prefers the Enclave.

    RB,
    A woman at work has a similar vintage Jeep it looks to have held up well. My S10s air hasn't worked since I got it. I don't use it enough to justify fixing it.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,638
    I have been to OTB a couple times, but we go to Pablos quite often. Wednesday, $8.99 Fajita night! Though it might be $9.99 now...

    And we went to La Esperanza 2 weeks ago for my wifes Birthday. Very tasty. Especially the margarita.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    The ‘judge’ doesn’t seem to have a problem with his, so what’s your problem with yours?

    I trade in my bimmer after 4 years because it is a logical time for me to trade.
    Also, I like getting a new car every once in awhile...actually about every 3 years but I might as well ride out the warranty, so to speak.

    Most cars start needing things done to them after 4 years, and I don't have the time or patience to take it in for problems...I can use my time working or playing tennis, or reading, all things I like doing more than sitting in a waiting room.

    Also, there are tax implications. I can write off 30% the first year, 20% the second and then 10% a year after, so it is really best to get new cars while I am able to write off a big part of the cost.

    My wifes 2008 will be 5 years old when we trade hers in around November.
    No problem, we might have done it sooner but the AWD models won't be out until then. I could keep the bimmer for 10 years, but for all those reasons, I would rather do it after 4...I think that is the optimum time for me. If I did keep it longer I would keep it for 3 more years and get an extended warranty, then repairs wouldn't be a problem.

    BTW, 7 years is great, 42k miles, mmmmm, not so good!

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    edited June 2012
    Anyway, while looking at the BMWs I just can't see what all the fuss is. I guess because I don't go for ultra precise handling, etc they don't do it for me. Then I get to the Lexus lot and I start to drool. Different strokes I guess.

    Either you love the subtle differences of European cars or you just don't appreciate it. American cars are jazzier, more chrome, more color, fancier interior. European cars are more traditional, try to keep the classic design.
    Asian cars are a mixture of the two, and generally go to the extra jazzy when it comes to electronics, controls, and gadgets.

    That is general but my friend with the Blazer only gets American cars, yet he knows the difference. We saw a 1976 Ferrari at the cruise night. Notice those beautiful Italian styling! That's a 1976 car. Is there any American car built in 1976 that can compare. The Ferrari looks better than 95% of the cars on the road today.

    It's all subjective, but I am just trying to explain how once European cars get in your blood, it is hard for other cars to compare.

    image

    image

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    unless a more heavy duty clutch was necessary to deal with the hp and torque of the engine.

    Thanks for the explanation. I think that would explain it. I like a manual but the last thing I would want would be a really heavy clutch......

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    My wife and I had the first year models of the first 3 generations.

    I like those earlier Taurus's a lot more than the new one! I think if they brought those back they would sell a lot better than the new one too!

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    After my 1992 Chevy Beretta's slew of problems that started with power windows that wouldn't work when the rear defroster was on and ended with a camshaft loeb (the 2nd one from the top) wearing down after only 60,000 miles, I swore off GM cars for a long time.

    Fast forward to 2009 when my best friend trades in his wife's leased Infiniti (was going to be WAY over the miles) QX56 for a Chevrolet Tahoe LTZ because of the 0% financing for 72 months. He's an european car guy like me and just LOVES everything about his new Tahoe. I'm so impressed with his 2009 Tahoe, that I convince my Dad to order a 2010 LTZ Tahoe when the lease is up on his 2007 BMW X5 Sport Package (His 2nd X5). My friend's Tahoe had a problem with the Toruque converter at about 36K miles that was fixed. My Dad's 2010 NEVER WENT BACK TO THE DEALERSHIP FOR ANYTHING in the 2 years/50K miles he owned it. My Dad and my best friend BOTH bought new (leftover) 2011 LTZ Tahoes at the end of February of this year. They are both happy once again.

    All the domestics have turned things around since the dark days of the 80s and 90s.

    I am IN LOVE with the 2012 Wrangler Unlimited (4 door). 4 door, 4WD convertible is way cool. I see them all over the place around here. Everyone who has one absolutely LOVES it.

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    I had a 91 SHO, new. We drove it for about 40,000 miles. When you closed a door or the trunk, it sounded like a tin can. But once you were inside, I felt the car was very nice - quiet and very smooth on the highway. The interior was nice. It never rattled that I remembered, the doors just sounded tinny closing. All the plastic cladding on the outside was a pain to wash and/or wax.

    The clutch on the first year, the 89 I think, was undersized. I think Ford even recalled them and replaced what I think was a 6 inch plate with an 8 inch. By 91 it had the upgraded clutch. The thing had a cable clutch. When new, the clutch was pretty smooth. But as the car aged, the clutch got harder and harder. I never knew if it was the actual clutch needing replaced, or that cable. We sold it before fixing anything on the clutch.

    This was the first car where I bought an extended warranty. It came new with only a 1 year/12000 mile warranty. I think I paid $750 for 5 year/50000 miles warranty. Of course, the entire clutch was not covered. It think only about 1 thing required fixing, something in the front suspension or CV joint went bad, don't really remember. I do know I didn't 'use up' the $750. When I sold it, I strongly suggested the new owner spend the $50 to transfer the remaining year of the warranty to himself.

    The last year we owned it, drove it to New Jersey from the midwest. We ran into several traffic jams in the major cities and several interstate jams where the road was being worked on. The clutch was getting real stiff by then, and this trip wore me out. The clutch was the main reason I sold it.

    The 220 HP was pretty nice. I ran it to about 130MPH once and it wasn't topped out. C&D said it was worth about 138 and that seemed about right. Won't go into detail, but there was a Mustang involved. It would jump sideways with torque steer if you got on it at all from a stop or slow roll. You had to keep the RPM's up everywhere to get the thing to move. You did not want to attempt to pass in 5th gear. In western Kansas, I dropped it to 4th to pass even when I could see forever. When merging, you had to remember to drop down a couple of gears or you would chance getting run over. Without rpm's, the thing had no power. The intakes had a second set of butterfly valves that opened at about 3500 rpm. You could definitely tell when you hit this rpm. From there to redline at about 6500 (don't really remember), it was strong.

    Overall, it was a nice car. Toward the end, we test drove an automatic. Not sure, but the HP might have been even kicked up a little. The automatic just did not get the job done at all. With the 5 speed, it you kept your mind in it, you could get a gear that would make the car move, but the automatic seemed that there was nothing at all there.
  • mako1amako1a VirginiaPosts: 1,731
    there was a Mustang involved. Never mind the Mustang. It's just an old guy trying to re-create his youth. :shades:

    Good to hear from you again, Bolivar. Sounds like that car was a PITA.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2006 Silverado 2500 LT HD, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    . It never rattled that I remembered, the doors just sounded tinny closing.

    I enjoyed reading every word of your memories regarding that car. Sometimes you see an older car and your imagination makes it seem more perfect than what it was. I find this happens when you look at used cars....they look so nice and innocent when you see them on the outside, but who knows what faults lie under that unblemished but fixed up exterior?

    Although I like the idea of those old Taurus's, and though I think the design and the concept of the car would make it more enjoyable than owning a 2012 Taurus, I think I will pass as far as trying to find a good one.

    Very worthwhile post though....I got a real sense of what it must have been like owning and driving such a car.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    edited June 2012
    Driver,

    I had a 93 Taurus. It was a fully loaded LX model and had all the creature comforts of the SHO. It was a nice car for the time. I had bought it used as my second car in 1997. It had 50K on the clock. It was very comfortable, roomy and secure. I had the 3.8 V6 and it moved along just fine by the standards at the time.

    This is where the good stuff ended. I only bought one extended warranty in my life and on this car the warranty people probably lost a few bucks. Over the next 40K miles I racked up probably well in excess of 4-5K in repairs. The head gasket failed, numerous suspension problems, numerous electrical issues, etc. It was always something. It never stranded me, but by 100K it was pretty used up. It wasn't until later I learned the models with the smaller 3.0 V6 were much more reliable.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    I think some of you might find this discussion interesting:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f25b6b9

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 5,540
    I trade in my bimmer after 4 years because it is a logical time for me to trade. Also, I like getting a new car every once in awhile...actually about every 3 years but I might as well ride out the warranty, so to speak.

    Also, there are tax implications. I can write off 30% the first year, 20% the second and then 10% a year after, so it is really best to get new cars while I am able to write off a big part of the cost.


    Those are the reasons you should be citing for getting a new BMW not that you don’t want one because it is out of warranty. Your wanting a BMW solely because of it still being in warranty doesn’t convey much confidence in it, at least not to me. FWIW, I’m a lot jealous that I can’t get tax write offs for the cars that I buy. My personal opinion about tax write offs for cars would be you can get them but only for the run of the mill grocery getters. Anything beyond that is taking advantage of laws that were made as a result of lobbyists for big business.

    If I did keep it longer I would keep it for 3 more years and get an extended warranty, then repairs wouldn't be a problem.

    There you go again with the warranty thing. You gotta stop that.

    BTW, 7 years is great, 42k miles, mmmmm, not so good!

    I’ve already said that is bad, very bad, awful if you want my true feelings about it but until it blew up I had no concerns with it being out of the bumper to bumper warranty that it had for 5 years. However, I know now that their 100K mile power train warranty was worthless for me. If I listened to only you about BMW’s, I’d never own one. To me the mark of a car is its reliability after the warranty runs out. With that being the case, if I wanted an upscale reliable car out of warranty, Lexus would be at the top of my list. Heck, I’d even take my chances with another Hyundai Genesis given your confidence in out of warranty BMW’s.

    jmonroe

    '09 Genesis V8 and '12 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    if I wanted an upscale reliable car out of warranty, Lexus would be at the top of my list.

    Great minds think alike! I also wouldn't hesitate to own an Acura out of warranty either.

    Heck, I’d even take my chances with another Hyundai Genesis

    How has the old Genny been to you? I know I remember you having intermittent issues with the audio. I don't really miss mine, except for the fact that I would get asked about it constantly. No one cares about a Buick (although the valet guy the other night was raving about it).

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,362
    And you can say you knew me when...... I'll still remember you guys.....
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    if I wanted an upscale reliable car out of warranty, Lexus would be at the top of my list.

    Great minds think alike! I also wouldn't hesitate to own an Acura out of warranty either.


    Edmunds bought a '96 Lexus ES300 with 120K on the clock to use in their long term fleet. Currently being driven across country by one of their staffers. I think they paid around $3500 for it.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    edited June 2012
    It was always something. It never stranded me, but by 100K it was pretty used up.

    That model of the Taurus seemed to be the best one...they even used it as the car of the future in Robocop. They looked pretty advanced for their time.

    I drove the next edition, the uglified 1996 model. I was thinking of using the wagon model to haul around books. I test drove it and it was pretty dismal, boring...no handling characteristics, and cheap inside. I also had a rental that gave the same impression...uninspiring to be kind.

    They told me it wouldn't hold up carrying half a ton of books around...after it all, it is just a car with more space in the back.
    image

    Thank goodness, I paid a bit more a month to buy a Jeep, and it was a real workhorse, and had pretty good handling and a nice interior.

    So, tjc, was that your last Ford?

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,270
    >'96 Lexus ES300 with 120K

    But that's just a Camry with beads IIRC.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    So, tjc, was that your last Ford?

    I had a beater 79 Continental and then my "toy" 89 Town Car after that, but I guess as far as new cars yes.

    I still like Fords and certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy another one, at the moment nothing fits the bill for me. The new Taurus drives nice and is loaded with technology, but for it's exterior size is low on interior room. If I was shopping SUVs the Explorer would be near the top of the list.

    Heck I came back to GM after my complete disaster 98 Olds Eighty Eight, so its proof "time heals all wounds"

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    edited June 2012
    But that's just a Camry with beads IIRC.

    Yeah, but aren't most all cars that way?

    Camry = ES
    Tahoe = Escalade
    Crown Vic = Town Car
    Lucerne = DTS
    LaCrosse = upcoming XTS
    Equinox = SRX
    Honda CRV = RDX
    Focus = MKZ
    Taurus = MKS = Previous Generation Volvo S80

    I think you get the point. Many higher end cars share their roots in more basic examples of the platform.

    Lexus vehicles from the early to mid 90s are some of the best bullt cars in recent years, IMHO.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    My personal opinion about tax write offs for cars would be you can get them but only for the run of the mill grocery getters.

    I think the government is smart to let you use your car as an expense. People spend more that way, the manufacturers sell more, the taxes paid are greater, and having a good car or in some cases an expensive car increases business even more. When I got my first Jeep I was on unemplyment insurance, but I needed a car to start the business. If I couldn't write it off I wouldn't make anything and I couldn't chance starting a business. Because the Jeep could be written off we emply 15 people who have jobs and all pay taxes. It is a very clever idea to have created write offs.

    Your company really likes you working for them. If you made yourself a self employed consultant then you could write off your car too. You could claim repairs, fuel, insurance etc as expenses. It's a great system that helps our countries to be great.

    Don't let me influence you about buying a BMW. I don't think there are very many cars I would chance, unless I really had to-for financial reasons, for more than 60k miles and 3 or 4 year warranty. I know buying an extended warranty is probably going to be a losing proposition, but I would prefer to pay $3000 for 3 years coverage, rather than have a major transmission, engine, or computer problem. For me, it has little to do with whether the car is a BMW or a Toyota.

    Keep in mind too, I would rather risk driving the BMW, over having a bland car that is boring to drive...it is worth the risk to me. I have seen older BMWs and they probably hold up fine, I just don't want to get caught having major repairs. I'd rather pay $1000 a year and not get caught having to pay the big one!

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    And you can say you knew me when...... I'll still remember you guys.....

    Yeh, just remember the little people on your way to stardom. We're the ones who made it possible for you to become the Edmunds Star of the Month.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,196
    edited June 2012
    I still like Fords and certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy another one, at the moment nothing fits the bill for me.

    Asian and American cars are pretty close as far as reliability goes these days. So, it just depends on the actual car you prefer. I agree, your old Taurus should not influence your car buying decisions today.

    I looked inside a new Tuarus and found it pretty claustrophobic. Really dark inside with little tiny windows. I am a big fan of Fusions though - I think I am the only one around. The top of the line model is nicely designed and handles pretty nicely, and seats are comfortable, controls are positioned right, the whole car felt right to me. It isn't a luxury liner, but the Fusion gives excellent value for the price.

    Some day you have to tell us about the disasterous 98 Olds.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,662
    Jmonroe - check out the website an edmunds poster (who fezo bought his Solara from) mylexussucks.com

    He feels about as good about Lexus as you do about Hyundai.

    Powered By Honda2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,270
    >Yeah, but aren't most all cars that way?

    Of that I'm well aware.

    My thinking was the true toyota Lexus models have a lot more gimmicks to go bad and cost a pretty penny to repair or maintain than a run-of-the-mill Camry.
This discussion has been closed.