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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    " Interest rate money"?

    Honda isn't into banking, they are into selling cars. At today's miniscule interest rates, it's pretty hard to give a "special" rate in the first place.

    Honda has great leases because of their wonderful resale values.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Pathetic.

    It even makes me question my Christian values...WHY??
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    Poor kids and families.

    I just read that the shooter first shot his Mom in his classroom (who was a teacher.) Most of the dead kids were in her classroom.



    So very sad.


    It sounds like, from piecing this all together, the shooter first killed his mother at her home and then went yo the school and killed all those kids and teachers/principal. Details are still sketchy, but I'll bet something happened at the school.

    When I was a school principal, what happened in Connecticut was my worst fear as a principal. I remember being snowed in during a blizzard at school, but I had dismissed the children early so they all got home safely. Then my school was identified by the state as an emergency center for stranded truckers and commuters. Luckily we had plenty of food on our cafeteria and kitchen.

    Another time one of the school buses that transported my kids to my school was in an accident and I raced to the scene on my car to help evacuate the injured children.

    Big responsibility - running a large elementary school like I did with over 900 students.

    My prayers are with those poor parents - good God - why kill innocent children?

    2021 Genesis G90

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    edited December 2012
    To be fair, I read rob's email, not yours.

    Using driverlogic101, you must have read this one that you are replying to.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    My prayers are with those poor parents - good God - why kill innocent children?

    To be famous - or infamous - in death.

    Not sure if everyone knows, but my wife works for a small school district close to where we live. She runs the Early Childhood programs (preschool and full-day child care) and is responsible for over 200 children ages 1 through 5 at two different locations.

    The district holds safety meetings all the time, but when someone is determined, they will find a way into the building. After Columbine, every school district in Colorado was forced to develop a safety program.

    We both grieve for the families who have lost loved ones today.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    That guy was seriously cold blooded.
    From what I understand he had 3 hand guns and around 100 rounds were fired.
    That means he had to reload.
    A lady at work lives in Newtown and has a young daughter.
    She wasn't at work today.
    I went over to her desk because everyone has pictures of their kids at their desk.
    Her daughter looks like she is elementary school age in the pictures, although a few years beyond Kindergarten.
    The town probably has multiple elementary schools, too.
    My own kind of grown up daughter is staying with one of her fellow graduated college friends in Newtown tonight. :sick:
    They are heading to NYC for the day tomorrow.
    The building I work in shares space with an elementary school and when I left work, I saw a group of kids and their teacher outside.
    It must have been an evacuation drill.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    isell,
    This is when you need to lean on those values.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    We both grieve for the families who have lost loved ones today.

    I have been in meetings today, didn't hear about this until I just turned on the news.

    Unbelievable and sad! I can't think of anything to say, you can't begin to explain or rationalize such a terrible tragedy.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    edited December 2012
    That guy was seriously cold blooded. From what I understand he had 3 hand guns and around 100 rounds were fired.

    I am a firm supporter of the right to bare arms as guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. However, if this psycho had no guns and still wanted to kill all those kids, he would have to use a blade - would have had to get up close to his intended victims and kill each, one at a time, and get blood all over himself. That, I believe would have been a deterrent to the massacre. But when you use guns, it is a distant and impersonal act and, in a way, protects the killer from getting his hands and body bloody. He could have built a bomb and detonated it at the school, but two or three semi-automatic handguns is faster and requires less skill or time to implement.

    Since he used 9mm handguns and supposedly did not use an automatic rifle or AK47 type weapon, how does society prevent these mass murders without usurping that constitutional right? The answer is, YOU CAN'T! You can not prevent massacres like this anymore than you can prevent tornadoes or hurricanes.

    So, I guess we have to endure these massacres every few years or months. People kill people (and little children), guns don't. Unfortunately, it's easier with guns!!!

    I am quite upset about today's events and I apologize for bringing this up now, but my frustration and my grief is overwhelming right now and just had to let off a little steam! This hit close to home as a former school administrator - I hate guns, and I hate people who kill children with guns!!!

    2021 Genesis G90

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    YOU CAN'T! You can not prevent massacres like this anymore than you can prevent tornadoes or hurricanes.

    You can't prevent these awful events from happening. But, I think you can cut back on them to some degree with the proper laws in place.

    After the slaughter at the theatre earlier this year, someone wrote a letter to the editor in a newspaper here. He explained that in Germany, if you have a handgun, it is locked up at a local police station. If you want to use it it is take out of storage and you are handed the gun once you sign for it. Of course it has to be used only for practice on a range, and it gets returned within a certain time limit.

    I think it makes sense to have a system like that. The fact some kid can steal some guns from his mother, and do this shouldn't happen.

    Personally, I could live my life quite well if civilians didn't have guns, unless strictly controlled. I think, if you are caught carrying a gun it should be an automatic 10 year penitentiary term. I know you nice people in the US think owning a gun is a right........I think the time has come to think about that one.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    Mike, This was basically a terrorist attack.
    There is no way to make sense of it, other than to know that the same person won't do it again.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    Mike, This was basically a terrorist attack.
    There is no way to make sense of it, other than to know that the same person won't do it again.


    The very worst experiences I ever had as a public school principal was having to attend funerals of children who attended my school. It was heartbreaking!

    A 10 year old boy who was on one of my 5th grade classes, was murdered in a field by a teenage boy who had raped him. At the funeral home, the parents had an open casket - just took my breath away - seeing this young boy whose family was quite close to me, as we're all my children in my school, laying there like a cherub - lifeless.

    I attended many funerals of my kids who died on the operating table or of leukemia or of hepatitis - just babies who never had a true taste of life. I can imagine (yes I can as I've experienced this firsthand) what these wakes and funerals are going to be like. It is such an awful thing to see one of your children laying in a coffin - it's truly horrible. Innocent babes whose lives were taken from them for absolutely NO REASON! It's too bad the killer was only able to die once - he should have had to die once for each and every child whose life he took.

    I don't care if he was insane - he should suffer on hell for eternity!

    2021 Genesis G90

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    You can't prevent these awful events from happening. But, I think you can cut back on them to some degree with the proper laws in place.

    We are bombarded by images of violence and sex 24 hrs a day... t.v, magazines, radio, video games, environment. Violence is glorified. Society is unlikely to change what it has built. Build more prisons. Violent offenders do not get probation.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    there are also plenty of laws. People just don't pay attention to a lot of them.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Just a heads-up; when you start hearing talk about "semi-automatic" weapons, all it means is every time you pull the trigger the gun fires once. A typical semi-auto handgun uses a magazine that contains 10-15 rounds. A revolver also fires one shot per trigger pull but it only holds six rounds. In a situation where the shooter is not taking return fire he can drop just as many targets with a revolver and a speed loader.
    As for high-capacity magazines, 15 is about the limit for a handgun if you want it to fire reliably. Again, with no incoming fire, the magazine capacity is essentially irrelevant. My 9mm has a 15 round mag loaded with Winchester jacketed subsonics. If I can't eliminate a threat with 15 rounds of those puppies I'm probably dealing with a T-1 or worse.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • ronsteveronsteve Member Posts: 1,190
    Looks an awful lot like the new Ford Fusion. Then again, the interior and driving dynamics of the last Fusion (had one as a rental on an island with no SL higher than 50mph) screamed "old man's car" to me.
    2015 Acura RDX AWD / 2013 VW Jetta 2.5SE
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    Looks an awful lot like the new Ford Fusion

    I agree, that new Avalon looks like a less chunky new Fusion. It's pleasant enough, but nothing really new, looks about the same as 100s of other cars.

    I have had a base Fusion rental and that was what I would call efficient. Gets you from A to B with minimal comfort and style, but, gets the job done.

    I also rented a top of the line Fusion (about 3 years ago) with black leather seats, with the stitching. Also a 4 cylinder but it was very satisfactory. For a car in that price range I would have considered it if that is what I was looking for.

    The Avalon....I guess if dependability and comfort are more important to you than driving pleasure and dynamics of driving a well engineered car, then it would probably be a good choice. I guess the old Avalon was a glorified Camry, not sure if the new one is a very different car.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    I guess the old Avalon was a glorified Camry, not sure if the new one is a very different car.

    The new Avalon is marketed as a "Sports Luxury" sedan rather than as a traditional cushy-ride upscale sedan. It is intended to compete (sic) with the BMW 5 series and sedans of that ilk. Going after a younger demographic is probably the right strategy in the long-term. Buick, Cadillac, and Lincoln has done it so why not Toyota.

    If seniors insist on a softer and more floaty ride there is always the Lexus ES and LS or even the upcoming Chevy Impala.
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    edited December 2012
    You can't prevent these awful events from happening. But, I think you can cut back on them to some degree with the proper laws in place.

    Mass murder seems to be a uniquely American phenomenon. Although there have been instances of mass murders in other countries it does not occur with nearly the frequency as is experienced in the US.

    One major contributing factor is mental illness. In an effort to reduce public budgets many states (if not all) de-institutionalized mental illness, close many mental health facilities and threw these helpless people on the streets. Now, we have a new underclass--the homeless.

    What is required is a better way to identify mentally unstable individuals, at the earliest age possible--perhaps at the kindergarten stage. If these folks are deemed to be a threat to themselves and society they should be institutionalized and not left to disrupt school activities or roam the streets. Budgets be dammed we need a safer America.

    Meanwhile, we should all continue to pray for the innocent children whose lives were cut short by this violent and deranged man. May their souls rest in eternal peace. For the grieving families our thoughts and prayers are with you.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Although there have been instances of mass murders in other countries

    I heard that there were a number of people hacked and sliced in China, was it 20?, the knives and machettes were used. Only here, would this be turned into an antigun tirade and anti computer game tirade by the very media who ignored Benghazi.

    As to the kid doing this, he reportedly had Asperger's Syndrome. If the media reporting is not wrong again, I know of a family who adopted a kid with this and some other problems. He has no feelings of empathy for other people and their feelings or pain. He is mean and rough with other kids and he's only in middle school now. I picture this as being a related problem to that lack of connection to other people.

    I see this as being a conflict between the mother and son over something. And the media has reported she was a teacher in the building and I've heard that she was not. Wrong again?

    All terribly sad and heart-breakingly tragic. Awful. But it's not a national movement. Perhaps if the public wants to fund the mental hospitals they closed through the last 15 years or so. Perhaps if the public wants to allow people such as the son to be placed in treatment and the public protected from him before he goes bezerk. But the last I recalled the public and media wanted to protect the rights of the mentally ill and demanded they not be locked away... Hmmmmm.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    But the last I recalled the public and media wanted to protect the rights of the mentally ill and demanded they not be locked away... Hmmmmm.

    The ACLU was behind a lot of that- filing actions to stop states from "institutionalizing" the mentally ill. In Kentucky a unanimous jury verdict is required to find someone lacks the capacity to manage their personal and/or financial affairs- even if their attorney, doctor, and an unbiased team of medical and metal health professionals all agree that the person is incompetent...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    Private, so no dealer involved. Painless. Prior owner even brought it to my house, gave me all his stuff, signed the title, took the money and his plates and left. About as easy as it can be.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,562
    "...people in the US think owing a gun is a right..."

    They don't just think, it is a right in the US.

    Laws have to be made to restrict use of any dangerous object but you can't pass laws that will control the devils in people's minds.

    Outlawing spoons won't stop people from getting fat.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    The new Fusion looks absolutely awful and the new Avalon isn't that much better. What are these company's thinking? I would think they have focus groups or something early on to get some kind of public feedback on these designs. The last generation of both of these cars looked so much better but that's a personal opinion and yeah I know, everyone has one! But if I did have to buy one, I'd go with the Avalon hands down. Something tells me that sales of both of these cars won't be so great this year. Will be interested to see how many they do sell.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    edited December 2012
    Something tells me that sales of both of these cars won't be so great this year. Will be interested to see how many they do sell.

    Au contraire ...

    Just came back from New England's largest Toyota dealership. I was hoping to see the 2013 Avalon up close and personal but not a single copy was in the showroom or on the lot.

    According to a sales manager the Avalon is selling like hot cakes and they sell them sight unseen. If this experience is any indication of the Avalon's desirability then Toyota has a hit on its hands.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    I heard that there were a number of people hacked and sliced in China, was it 20?,

    Yes, and there have been mass murderers in Russia and Europe etc. The U.S. has the most gun mass murder killings, and though you U.S. citizens have the right to bear arms......I think that has to be reviewed. I know the arguements, guns don't kill people, people kill people. But, they can do it a lot faster and easier with a gun.

    I could maybe see one shot pistols being permitted for self defense maybe. But, I said it before, and I will say it again, if you are a citizen caught carrying a gun you should get 10 years in prison. If you are a farmer or a hunter, you can carry a gun in the proper areas (on your property or in the woods or wherever one carries on these activities).

    Yes, there are mentally ill people out on the streets and they can easily obtain a gun. Yes, they should be in an institution where they will get care, but, they shouldn't be able to obtain a mail order gun, or take one from their mothers dresser.

    Civilized people should not have to walk around with a gun.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    According to a sales manager the Avalon is selling like hot cakes and

    I have never heard a sales manager say, The new ---------- is selling off as slow as molasses, I hope sales pick up soon.

    Seems the Avalon is aimed at Camry people who want to move up. Definitely better handling and firmir ride. May be a fine car, I just don't know why they would use that grill.
    image

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    May be a fine car, I just don't know why they would use that grill.

    Because it appeals to younger buyers. By the way, I believe the chief designer for the new Avalon is all but 27 years old. Guys age 60+ are increasing becoming redundant in the eyes of the GenX and GenY demographic.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    and though you U.S. citizens have the right to bear arms......I think that has to be reviewed.

    And although you Canadian citizens have the right of free speech...I think that has to be reviewed.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,286
    It sounds like, from piecing this all together, the shooter first killed his mother at her home and then went yo the school and killed all those kids and teachers/principal. Details are still sketchy, but I'll bet something happened at the school.

    Yes, at the time they were saying something else.

    Totally screwed up. :sick:
  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    edited December 2012
    Yes, at the time they were saying something else.

    From what I have heard, the young man had Aspergers syndrome which accompanies AD/HD in some cases. My grandson has this condition which is extremely difficult to deal with. He gets easily frustrated and is not aware of consequences of his actions. He acts out, at times, and is almost impossible to understand most of the time. He is in Special Education and many children like this do not lead normal lives because of the language block.

    When I heard of the possible ailments that shooter suffered from, one begins to piece together what happened. People with Aspergers and AD/HD have severe learning disabilities. They act impulsively with little, if any emotion and cannot logically array the consequences of their actions - or said another way - they act out of unknown stimuli and often do not understand right from wrong.

    If I get on the phone with him (he is 7 years old), I can only understand a few words out of every sentence he speaks. Imagine how frustrating it is for a child to not understand what people are saying and also why people around him don't understand what he is trying to communicate. It is a severe language disorder accompanied by a severe behavior disorder. It is extremely rough on the family of those children.

    I still believe there was something about his mother being an educator - that his mother paid more attention to her students than she did to him - or at least he perceived it that way. I really am only guessing.

    But if he suffered from what my poor little grandson suffers from (and remember there are varying degrees of the syndrome affecting no two children the same way), then one can conceivably see what happened was as a result of brain damage (learning disabilities) can result in as regards behavior after years and years of frustration on his part.

    Could this have been prevented? I really don't know!!!

    2021 Genesis G90

  • abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,255
    From what I have heard, the young man had Aspergers syndrome which accompanies AD/HD in some cases

    This brain damage is either caused by genetics or can be caused at birth by a lack of oxygen. My grandson was rushed back to the hospital 5 days after birth with high fever and breathing difficulty. They believe this occurred post-natal, not pre-natal (genetic).

    My other grandson suffers as a result of the younger grandson causing so much disturbance and commotion at home all the time.

    It's not a pretty picture - and if this shooter grew up in a similar environment, one can begin to understand what happened. Why it happened will probably never be determined because the shooter is dead and only he has the answers to those questions.

    It's just a pity that innocent people and children had to suffer because of this young man's inabilities to be rational and understand the consequences of this awful massacre.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    And although you Canadian citizens have the right of free speech...I think that has to be reviewed.

    The Canadians already have- and free speech isn't doing so well:
    Gagging Us Softly

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,562
    "...that grill..."

    Woah! This is the first time seeing it and I have to say it is the ugliest thing since the Aztek. What were they thinking?

    30 years from now people with collect them for the weird styling but for now, yuck! :(

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    designer for the new Avalon is all but 27 years old. Guys age 60+ are increasing becoming redundant

    They have the right idea for sure. This 60+ consumer isn't one bit interested in that car, so they must have targeted it to the right market.

    All the car makers are trying to develop unusual distinctive front ends. That front end looks like a Camry that ran into a Mazda.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    edited December 2012
    y Mark Steyn

    Mark Steyn is a genius. I would say "free speech" in Canada is about the same as it is in the USA. We are grappling with how to control hate speech and issues like that....but, very much like the USA, we are a free democratic country, and can pretty much say what we want, if it doesn't promote hatred.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    edited December 2012
    And although you Canadian citizens have the right of free speech...I think that has to be reviewed.

    OK..........talking about speech.........what exactly are you trying to say?

    Also, take a look at this chart;
    Deaths by guns per 100000 people

    What do you think that means? The U.S. is number 11 just below some countries that are out of control with over 25 deaths per 100,000. U.S. has 9 per 100K, Canada 4.78, the U.K. .25. I don't know the answer, but do you think gun controls or lack thereof could be a factor?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    it is the ugliest thing since the Aztek.

    I think they are thinking if older people hate it, younger people will love it.

    Many years ago, when our youngest daughter was about 14, she would ask me if I liked one of the songs she recorded. If I said I didn't like it, she knew it was a good song, and, if I did like it, she decided it wasn't very good.

    When I buy books for the business I like books with the good old fashioned covers like the ones on the Hardy Boys. The kids don't like those, they like dark scarry titles with weird shapes and colors. If I choose covers I hate they will love them.

    The Avalon is designed for under 25 year olds.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    edited December 2012
    Laws have to be made to restrict use of any dangerous object but you can't pass laws that will control the devils in people's minds.

    Very true, but check out these statistics for 2011. Some people think I shouldn't comment....I guess only American citizens have free speech (even though I am a property owner in the USA).

    So, let me know what these statistics mean;

    Country Population Total Deaths by Firearms
    USA ........................315 M ..............................8775
    Canada ......................35 M...............................170
    UK...............................62 M................................58

    What accounts for the difference?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,562
    "...if it doesn't promote hate..."

    Sounds nice until your political opponents decide that hate means disagreeing with them. :(

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,562
    "...some think I shouldn't comment..."

    The nice thing about the US is that anyone can think anything they want but nobody can stop you. :)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >have free speech (even though I am a property owner in the USA).

    If I thought a country had it wrong on guns and crazy people, I certainly wouldn't want to own property there and spend time there vacationing. It's gotta be so dangerous.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    What accounts for the difference?

    Civility of society and self respect.

    We Americans have become so obsessed with ourselves that we've forgotten we are part of a society that needs to work together to do the right things.

    My priest said during his homily this weekend that we need to do 3 things:

    get out of the house instead of sitting there watching television

    do something good for someone else - volunteer, coach, let a pedestrian cross in front of you

    slow down and remember that you only have one shot on this earth.

    BTW - IMHO, the right to bear arms was based on musket technology. Our forefathers probably had no idea that someday "arms" would include weapons able to mow down 2 dozen people in a matter of seconds. They expected the constitution to be a fluid document and that perhaps it's time to review what really constitutes "arms" for personal protection.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    If I thought a country had it wrong on guns and crazy people, I certainly wouldn't want to own property there and spend time there vacationing. It's gotta be so dangerous.

    You can't have a logical discussion with people who are polarized and already have the excuses made up.

    Why not try to explain those statistics, instead of making comments like that, they don't help to solve the problem.

    FYI, I bought a home there because I love it in Florida and I love the USA. It would be even better if you didn't have so many senseless killings.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    BTW - IMHO, the right to bear arms was based on musket technology.

    I think you have a good point, sometimes laws make sense when they are made, but as technology changes our laws have to keep up. It was a lot different in the days when those laws were enacted, they made sense. There were enemies who could kill you with a bow and arrow, and there wasn't a police force.

    I think a society that wants to advance has to be flexible with it's laws. We lived on a remote area for several years, and we had a rifle. The reason being, if bad guys drive up the 1/4 mile drive, break in, and theyhave weapons, we could be killed and robbed and no one would know.

    There's a lot of idiots and mentally ill people driving cars (road rage), guns are even more lethal.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,562
    "...based on musket technology..."

    If you read other period documents like the Federalist Papers you see that the people who came up with the 2nd amendment were more worried about giving citizens the means to resist oppressive government. Naturally as government weaponry changed so would the citizen's.

    That delicate balance between individual rights vs.societal protection is tough to judge. I don't own any guns but I'd hate to lose that right.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    it is interesting that the government implementing strict gun laws is actually the exact opposite of what the amendment intends.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,562
    edited December 2012
    "...there wasn't a police force..."

    The police can't stop a determined assailant from getting at you. They can take a report later and maybe even catch the criminal but if there is a chance someone will come kicking down the door, you have to save yourself.

    BTW, I recommend a pistol grip Mossberg shotgun loaded with birdshot. Will discourage even a maniac but won't shoot through the wall and take out your neighbor like a rifle.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    I think you have a good point, sometimes laws make sense when they are made, but as technology changes our laws have to keep up.

    I believe the "right to bear arms" was put into place to keep government from seizing all power and becoming a totalitarian state. It didn't have anything to do with protection of self or family. It was to keep the nation "free" of an oppressive government.

    That said, any gun control laws wouldnt pass, wouldn't work... and if they did they couldn't be enforced. Too many guns already. Too many holes in our borders for gun smugglers.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Sounds nice until your political opponents decide that hate means disagreeing with them.

    Precisely.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

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