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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,289
    edited July 2013
    Europe's favorite car colors:

    If I'm not mistaken the pie chart colors look identical to the BMW logo. Coincidence or good marketing?
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    You suggested the unethical/ dishonest practice of bait and switch to the original poster,

    I'll explain one more time the way I see it;
    First a new car: There is no reason to charge more for a new car that you order depending on the color you order. They all cost the same.

    A new or used car on the lot, that is in demand and short on supply. Personally, I would have a problem charging more based on color, although it is not nice it is not immoral. If I was the customer I would probably just find out the price of a regular color car and order one...expecting to pay the lowest price possible for that model.

    If the dealer is going to play games by selling the car for more based on color I would like to know how much of a premium I am paying for that color. Yes, I would see how much the other color is first and then switch in the end. Do you think dealers are completely up front about everything? I have bought 3 cars in the last 2 years and dealt with 4 dealers, I would say one was honest...the others all played games. I would be a complete fool not to try to find out how much I was being overcharged because of the color of the car. I could then make a much better decision whether I should order from the factory or try another dealer or look for a dealer trying to move that particular color car.

    Bait and switch may not be nice, but it isn't unethical. Lots of businesses do it. Lunch from $5....do you think you are going to come out paying $5?
    I saw a Corvette and painted on the door was LEASE ME FOR $270 and in small print "bi-weekly". You go to Best Buy to buy their 50" TV for $450 and find the picture is so dull and fuzzy you end up buying the $600 model.

    Everyone has to defend themselves, so yes, I would do what I have to in order to get the best price possible....the dealer isn't looking out for me.

    Let's say I go to the dealer and I like the Harvest Gold color that no one is buying. Do you think he is going to say, "That car has been sitting there for 8 months everyone hates the color so you can have a $300 discount"?

    I don't think I am being dishonest one bit....I am making an informed choice and I am doing my homework by finding out how much I am being gouged for choosing a particular color. If you just want to accept what a dealer or salesperson tells you then that is up to you...like I say, if I had done that I would be out $22000 over the last 2 years.

    Hope that is clear.

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    edited July 2013
    If I'm not mistaken the pie chart colors look identical to the BMW logo.

    lol...I think you are on to something bwia;

    image

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    You indeed are... the master... of... senseless debate!
    Amen to that.
    I'm done. We need Richard to shame driver into behaving like he usually does.


    Please see 2 posts above.

    Most people lie on average 4 times a day....so all you perfect people should think about that.

    I don't consider seeking out the price of the undesireable car to be dishonest or a lie. If there is a big enough difference in price I may choose that car. I am just getting all the facts, then we will sit down and negotiate.

    I'll tell the salesman I want to pay the same price for the red car as the sick green car. He'll come down a bit, I may go up a bit. The whole negotiation process is a series of game playing lies. He has to talk to his manager, he can't possibly sell at that price, there are no incentives at this time (when there are), you need mop n glo and seat protection and tire insurance etc.

    Lets not start making moral judgements about what's right and wrong unless you lead the perfect life. Have you ever had to negotiate the price of a car? I guess when the BMW dealer told me my wifes 2008 335 was only worth $20000 because the used car manager said they can buy them at the auction for that price (and I knew the book value was $25000) that you would just accept his word. Yes, I actually looked up the value before taking the car in...that's about as dishonest as negotiating a price on the sick green car before switching to red.

    I am just saying, yes, I get as many facts in place that I can...I want to be informed and I am playing against professionals, so I will use any legitimate tactic I can to protect myself.

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,448
    Kirstie....you're kidding right? No way anyone here has a car that gets dirty.....EVER! :P

    Craig....I think the "Gold Acrua" predates 2001, as that's the year my former spouse and I split. I should know this, but did Acura make a Legend Coupe? I know the gold car we looked at was a coupe. Maybe I'm "misremembering" the actual model, however.

    I'm one of the ones who really thinks car colors are boring. I'll do anything to find a color that's less than what the majority buy. I do not like silver. Of course, my last two cars were black over tan. And my current one, white over black. Pretty boring, but I had little choice.

    Please bring back colors like "plum crazy". ;)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,538
    Most people lie on average 4 times a day

    Since I don't lie, you must be lying 8 times a day ;) :P

    Disclaimer: This was a joke

    Seriously now, I heard on the radio a few weeks ago an interview with a sociologist regarding the whole process of lying and petty office theft. The results were more than interesting. In short, when given an opportunity, people succumb to lying or grabbing unearned money really quickly. Basically, when the gain is immediate and perceived risk of being caught very small, people have tendency to take advantage of that small crack.

    However, very small changes in the process, call them weak gates (simple obvious signals that you are crossing the line significant enforcement), drop the percentage very significantly. For example, a picture with eyes looking at the people reduces incidents of office food theft in the kitchen by some amazing percentage. It's just like the old saying, doors and locks are not really there to keep crooks out, they are to help honest people stay honest.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,411
    The 2nd generation Legend did come in a (very large) coupe. pretty cool car, and way overengineered.

    Acura is very boring now. My wife loved the RDX, but hated the colors (and it was almost enough to squash the sale). Ended up with the dark gray, which does look good. But nothing else was vaguely interesting. She wanted blue. Nope. black, gray, silver (various varieties) and a metallic tan. Boring and bland. MDX came in blue.

    she is still mad we got rid of her dark purple Voyager ("dark iris pearl"), a very dark plum type color. Very sharp. Nothing like it today though!

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    Basically, when the gain is immediate and perceived risk of being caught very small, people have tendency to take advantage of that small crack.

    Interesting post, and there is a lot of information on the net about lying or bending the truth.

    Funny, people get all hyper if you do a bit of a fake about what car you really want to buy, but nothing is wrong if a President lies about his exploits, and an ex-governor who emails questionable pictures of himself thinks he should be forgiven because he made a little mistake, and lets not get into the whole priest thing.............................

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    edited July 2013
    GG...this is a 2nd (1990 to 1995) generation Acura Legend Coupe, and it looks like it is sandy-gold color;
    image

    You can learn all you ever wanted to know about Acura Legends at;
    Acura Legend

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,538
    edited July 2013
    I think it's the other way around. People tend to rant about private indiscretions of the officials (and their policies as well, btw), especially from opposing party, but justify their own issues as "small", "insignificant", "everybody does it", "I work hard", "They stole from me, so I just got even", etc. They also are willing to quickly forgive or justify their own tribe (party) much quicker and easier than the opposing one, even when in fact they had been obviously betrayed, both in policies and in private life. The fact that the other guy is "worse", is enough of the catalyst to overlook any objections.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • mako1amako1a VirginiaPosts: 1,763
    Please bring back colors like "plum crazy"

    Good one. How about Tangerine in that new flat shiny finish.

    Bad economy...dull colors. GG, we need to talk before you get yourself married again.

    I used to think Dodge used over the top colors, but it got people motivated and eventually looked normal.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2006 Silverado 2500 LT HD, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,763
    Please bring back colors like "plum crazy".

    Dodge did exactly that:

    image

    image

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,864
    " With all due respect, you have absolutely no idea how the law of supply and demand works"

    No, he doesn't and I will try no longer to explain this simple concept to him.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    edited July 2013
    Originally you stated... work out a deal for green, then ask for the red. Which if a high demand color, would be a different deal. What you just posted, for the most part, seems o.k. I just think that once you make a deal on a car, you shouldn't go back and and try to change the terms or conditions.

    Edited: I do enjoy that term "King of Senseless Debate" you came up with. Very funny. Mind if I use that in my next book? :P
  • gogiboygogiboy Posts: 732
    "I'm one of the ones who really thinks car colors are boring. I'll do anything to find a color that's less than what the majority buy. I do not like silver."

    GG--

    As an artist I'm really enjoying this discussion. Most all of us have preferences and even though I try to be broad in my tastes my preferred colors are the greens and blues--at least for cars, especially the more grayed-out greens and blues. For those of you who know art, it's hard to beat those Maxfield Parrish teal blue skies--like before sunset on a cool clear day. My mom just got a Camry last year and it's a nice fairly vibrant, mid-saturation blue hue. She likes it because it's easy to find in the parking lot. At 82 with mild catarracts, that means something when you go to scan a sea of silver, gray, white and black minnows populating the automotive landscape.

    Strange then, that the three cars we own are white, black and silver. The silver on the Scion is forgettable and BORING! The white on my Mazda was an up-charge (sparkly mica in the paint or some such nonsense) as it was on our previous Rav4 (bought used so no extra cost). I have to say that I would not buy a dark car (despite my black MR2) here in OK with 300 days of punishing sunshine per year unless I could keep my car garaged or under a UV resistant cover.

    Seldom do I see a gray or silver that leaves an impression although the 91-93 MR2s came in a beautiful blueish gray. Some of the greens are quite garish (Isell: remember the 94 or so Civic Del sol green?) that do not improve with age. Same goes for some of the golds. I think the nicest blue I ever saw was on a Bentley convertible idling next to me in traffic. Those saturated purple cars should be an affront to anyone, even those suffering from mild color blindness. Orange?! Fogetta 'bout it. Yellow should be on school buses or at the track. The current Porsche Boxter has changed my view about gold as they have a rather subdued gold that oozes understated elegance. It's in marked contrast to the garish greenish-gold found on the special "Release" edition Scion xB a couple of years ago--no matter how easy it might be to find in a parking lot.

    I'm hoping for something with a bit more "classy sizzle" (if that's not an oxymoron) in our next car color. I saw a nice dark metallic blue WRX wagon in a lot in MI. Alas, that would be a far better car in the cloudy skies of MI than in the brilliant sun of OK.

    Gogiboy
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,020
    edited July 2013
    Stick to your guns driver. Buying or selling a car is a dog eat dog business. If you want to over pay for a car just walk into any dealership and take their first offer. It will usually be a $1,000 or more below wholesale for your trade and MSRP plus whatever they can tack on for their car. This is the way they are taught. If they don't do this they might get fired or at least suffer a severe talking to.

    The salesperson will love you for buying like this. They will tell everyone what a great guy you are, one of his best customers, etc. and greet you warmly every time you walk into the dealership in the future.

    If you object to giving your money away in this fashion, you become known as a "flake" or a "grinder". These names are meant to be derogatory, but in my mind they are terms of respect.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,305
    I do enjoy that term "King of Senseless Debate". . .

    KSD

    Works for me.

    There are a couple of princes as well.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,411
    Jip, if you are just negotiating price and don't have it written down and signed, you don't have a deal. So it is not "bait and switch", just a negotiating technique. Both cars are sitting there, and if the dealer values one higher, they won't sell it for the same price. so you can take the 2nd choice color or go home. Unless of course they are fine with the price, because they don't care about color!

    also, just because a certain color is in short supply, does not mean it is worth more. heck, it might be super hard to sell (like Isell's aztec gold), so they don't get ordered. I honestly don't think there are that many people so fixated on a certain color that they walk instead of getting a different choice. Certainly not enough of them for a dealer to let a done deal walk out the door over it.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    "King of Senseless Debate" you came up with. Very funny. Mind if I use that in my next book?

    It's yours....my manager will be around with a contract, I'd watch the small print (if yuou use the quote in any publication it will cost $2000)

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    Buying or selling a car is a dog eat dog business. If you want to over pay for a car just walk into any dealership and take their first offer.

    That says it all in two simple sentences. It's just negotiating and you got to be as sharp as possible.....you are up against pros who are doing this every day.

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • verdugoverdugo Posts: 2,016
    Bait and switch may not be nice, but it isn't unethical.

    You had zero credibility left with me, but that took you into negative territory.
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,289
    ...Both cars are sitting there, and if the dealer values one higher, they won't sell it for the same price. so you can take the 2nd choice color or go home. Unless of course they are fine with the price, because they don't care about color!

    I am wading into this discussion with trepidation, but here goes.

    Price discrimination or price differentiation exists when sales of identical goods or services are transacted at different prices from the same provider. (Wikipedia)

    Price discrimination allows a company to earn higher profits than standard pricing because it allows firms to capture every last dollar of revenue available from each of its customers. While perfect price discrimination is illegal, when the optimal price is set for every customer, imperfect price discrimination exists. For example, movie theaters usually charge three different prices for a show. The prices target various age groups, including youth, adults and seniors. The prices fluctuate with the expected income of each age bracket, with the highest charge going to the adult population. (Investopedia)

    So this brings an interesting question, if the cars are different colors it can be argued that they are different enough to charge a different price---and that is okay. If on the other hand the cars are considered to be identical, then it is illegal to price discriminate under the Sherman Antitrust Act, the Clayton Act, and by the Robinson-Patman Act. Not sure which one applies here but, if I remember correctly from my old Economics class, I believe it is the Robinson-Patman Act.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    You had zero credibility left with me, but that took you into negative territory.

    I guess you are saying I haven't lost much then anyway. :P

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    then it is illegal to price discriminate under the Sherman Antitrust Act, the Clayton Act, and by the Robinson-Patman Act. Not sure which one applies here but, if I remember correctly from my old Economics class, I believe it is the Robinson-Patman Act.

    Wow, loved the analysis of the situation. You can't charge more for a color if the two cars cost the same to make. You can charge more if they appeal to different income levels. So seniors could pay less for black, white and silver, and they tend to like tan. Students pay less for red and British Racing Green and Yellow, and adults earning the most pay extra for gray, maroon and blue....that solves the problem.

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Jip, if you are just negotiating price and don't have it written down and signed, you don't have a deal.

    Well, maybe. When you initial or agree to a price, and the salesman comes back and says,"deal" , that's a verbal contract. And then you say , hold on, I want a different color, well that could be a problem. True, the vast majority of the time it shouldn't be a problem. But, not a "negotiating technique" I would use.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,864
    Yes, I remember the green Del Sols.

    We called them Kermit Green.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,411
    the sticker is the same. If you want to pay 1 price, that is a different story.

    but, in this case, different colors are absolutely different products. The example that started this clearly stated that, since they would only take one color.

    dealers negotiate, but that is not price discrimination. Every deal is different, inventories, day of the month, etc. change the dynamics too.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,633
    DETROIT -- The Chevrolet Impala, long the standard-bearer for mediocre cars from Detroit, has made an amazing turnaround. A completely reworked version of the full-size car has taken Consumer Reports magazine's top spot for all sedans, deposing German and Japanese cars for the first time in at least 20 years.

    The new version, which began arriving in showrooms in April, scored 95 out of 100 points in the magazine's testing to get an "Excellent" rating. Only two cars have earned higher scores, the electric Tesla Model S, which starts at $62,400, and the BMW 135i coupe with a base price of $39,300.

    Read more: CTV Impala Tops CR

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,289
    edited July 2013
    The Impala, he said, is competitive with cars that cost $20,000 more such as the Audi A6 and Lexus LS460L. Only high-performance models from Germany and Japan handle better, he said.

    Not surprised! Hey *Driver does it come in aubergine, my favorite color?

    From the very first time I saw the Impala in January at the auto show I was impressed and commented that the Impala should be branded as a Cadillac or Buick. However, someone responded that the XTS and LaCrosse are different versions of the same car. That may be so but the new Impala looks and feels elegant and substantial. I just wished the same could be said of the Malibu.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,448
    GG, we need to talk before you get yourself married again.

    mako.....As if you're the only person who's told me that..... :P ;)

    Where were you when I needed you? :P

    Taking me a breather. My sisters are trying to "fix me up". My friends are trying to fix me up. My business colleagues are trying to fix me up. It really irritates them all that I'm "out there" alone (but not lonely).

    With my son grown and out on his own, and no one I'm responsible to/for, I go where I want, anytime I want, with whomever I want, or not at all. Kind of liking that right now.

    RB....THAT'S the color I'm talking about....plum crazy. I want more of those.

    driver...that's the car, although I thought the "gold" color was brighter....or, perhaps it's my memory that's faded and not the car.
This discussion has been closed.