Stories from the Sales Frontlines

nyccarguy · August 2013

My 2 main concerns about the Wrangler are 1. The price & 2. The Soft Top

There are quite a few options on the Wrangler's list that can bring its MSRP way north of $35K really fast.

Part of the allure of the Wrangler is that it is a convertible. Now when my Dad & I go to baseball games & my jeep would be parked on the streets of the Bronx for the better part of 4 hours, am I going to worry about my side windows being slashed open?

isellhondas · August 2013

Our son's has the removable hardtop. It's nice he can just pull off the front half easily. The rear half takes two people and some time.

He found on Craigslist a slightly used temporary softtop that actually fits and looks great. I think he paid 200.00 for it.

From what I hear, parking ANYTHING for four hours in the Bronx is risky.

From what I hear used Wranglers especially the four doors are bringing CRAZY money.

abacomike · August 2013

complaints it was proof that at least some of the establishments monitor what is being said about their food and service. I would expect that owners and managers at non-franchise restaurants would be much more sensitive and likely to respond than the corporate drones at franchises like the one where Mike recently ate with his grandson.

Gogi, you are correct, as usual! I sent the corporate headquarters 2 emails about my horrible experience and never have received a response from them. Never again will I ever set foot in one of their restaurants. If corporate won't respond, how can one expect the local establishment to improve its quality of food and service. IMHO, I'd rather spend $50.00 more at Morton's or Ruth's Christ and be assured of not only a good meal, but outstanding service as well.

Their prices were moderate, not cheap. For three people, the bill was $65.00. At one of the better restaurants I listed, it would have been $115 and well with it!

tjc78 · August 2013

I wish I could eat for three at Ruth's Chris for 115. Last time the wife and I went, the bill was over 200. :sick:

bwia · August 2013

I wish I could eat for three at Ruth's Chris for 115.

Talk about high prices. Last summer at Davio's (near Foxboro Stadium) I spent $340 for dinner for two adults and two children. My ten-year old grand daughter thought I wasted my money because the food was quite ordinary and the portions were small. Live and learn.

robr2 · August 2013

At places like Davio's, you are paying for the atmosphere and ambiance and for the bragging rights of saying you paid $340 for dinner. Last year I dropped $200 for two at Beacon Grille in Woburn.

You also pay for all the build out. Seasons 52 is opening a new location in my town. It's a high end seafood restaurant. The project to convert a former Border's Book Store is $4.2 million per the building dept.

It's owned by Darden's which also has Capital Grille and Eddie V's in it's high end portfolio to compliment their bread and butter Red Lobster and Olive Garden chains. I'm sure the quality of food is better at the high end chains, but one has to imagine that their ability to buy in bulk means the food cost isn't as high as it is for a single restaurant.

abacomike · August 2013

I wish I could eat for three at Ruth's Chris for 115. Last time the wife and I went, the bill was over 200.

Yes, but we don't order drinks and we usually order 2 sides, no dessert. We go out to an ice cream place near the restaurant for dessert. So, we can eat for 3 for about $40 a person, but if you add wine, a cocktail and dessert, it's going to run what you paid for 2 without tip.

roadburner · August 2013

My 2 main concerns about the Wrangler are 1. The price & 2. The Soft Top

You can get a CPO 2012 Sahara for under $30k in my neck of the woods. As for the soft top, I believe that you can still order the dual top option- although that means you need to have someplace to store the hardtop...

With all due respect to isell, my family doesn't find the ride of my 1999 TJ to be bad at all(and my wife and I are both in our mid-fifties).
Some of you may recall that I bought the Wrangler in 2002 to use in a contested election campaign as a parade car- I fully planned to sell it as soon as the election was over, as I had heard all the terrible ride/uncomfortable seats/weak HVAC stories. However, come November we all loved the Jeep and I sold my 1993 Pathfinder SE instead. 11 years later we all still love it- and I have three people wanting to buy it if I ever decide to flip it. The only reason I'd get rid of it would be to replace it with a JK Wrangler Rubicon with the high-zoot sound system and heated seats...

bwia · August 2013

Seasons 52 is opening a new location in my town. It's a high end seafood restaurant.

Looks interesting. I have an anniversary coming up on 9/11 so I might give the Chestnut Hill location a try. I checked out their menu, and guess what, no prices shown. Hmm! is that an indication of really high prices or is it too déclassée to show prices on menus of upscale food emporiums?

roadburner · August 2013

Saturday I was helping wash up some dishes and noticed that the hot water was HOT- as in 190 degrees! One of the thermostats was stuck. I turned off the hot water heater at the breaker box and called my plumber. Without asking he told me he could come over the following afternoon. So yesterday(Sunday) he arrived as promised, replaced both the upper and lower t-stat(they aren't that expensive, and if one dies the other is probably not far behind), tested both elements and pronounced the system good to go.

Any guesses on the total bill(parts and labor)?

robr2 · August 2013

I checked out their menu, and guess what, no prices shown.

It's probably because seafood is priced daily. It's probably similar to Capital Grille. I'd plan on $75 per person with one drink each.

imidazol97 · August 2013

$400

robr2 · August 2013

Any guesses on the total bill(parts and labor)?

I'll guess $325 - $225 labor (3 hours portal to portal) and $100 for parts.

shehab · August 2013

I just saw this car posted in CL. I am wondering what problems it may have at this age. Thanks.

Shehab

cdnpinhead · August 2013

Under $100.

bwia · August 2013

Any guesses on the total bill(parts and labor)?

I'd say $250, with the following price break-down.

Service call.......$120
1 hour labor...... 80
Parts................ 50

Kirstie_H · August 2013

Probably a multitude of problems. A minivan of that age and mileage is unlikely to be a good buy, at any price.

No one can say for sure, because it really depends on what has already been done to repair and maintain the vehicle, but unless the transmission has been replaced recently, and possibly the engine, I would run away from that vehicle.

nyccarguy · August 2013

There's actually a few YouTube videos of people who remove the hard top with only one person. It involves rigging 6 or 8 ratcheting tie downs and anchoring them into the ceiling of your garage. Take the front 2 freedom panels off, take the bolts out if the hard top, unplug the rear wiper, and start ratcheting until the top is 8" off of the frame & drive away.

There is a company out there called best top that actually makes replacement soft tops for Jeeps. Apparently the OEM soft tops last about 5 years.

The Bronx isn't nearly as bad as it used to be back in the '70s, '80s, & '90s. In the 10 plus years I've been a Yankees season ticket holder, I've never had anything g happen to my car while parked for a ball game. This includes my precious Prelude during the height of its engine's popularity. Now thieves & street racers are more interested in the CRV Motors.

Used 4 door Wranglers (unlimited) are priced insanely high. I recently read an article that showed the top cars that hold their value best after 5 years. The CRV, The Wrangler, The Tacoma, & The FJ Cruiser were 4 of the cars on the list.

nyccarguy · August 2013

The only reason I'd get rid of it would be to replace it with a JK Wrangler Rubicon with the high-zoot sound system and heated seats...

That's a $40K check you are going to write which could also buy you a very nice Boxster S:)

I guess I could look into CPO Saharas to meet my price point :confuse: Let me take a look while I'm eating lunch!

gogiboy · August 2013

"I don't know what criteria you used, but I came up with about $1000 difference, excluding any incentives. EX-L and 2014 Titanium."

Explorer--

I simply went from the Honda dealership to the Ford dealerships as they are across the street from each other in my town. Ford had two Titanium Pkg Ford Escapes and both were $36.5-$38K. It was a Sunday and I'm not in the market so I don't know about incentives. The highest CRV-L I saw was $32 or $32.5K. I only looked at the window stickers.

It's possible that the Escapes had some dealer add-ons, I don't remember. I guess what floored me wasn't so much that the Fords were so high, but just the steady creep upward of what used to be $20-$22K vehicles. It used to be that if you were pushing $40K you were in the near luxury category for a lot of cars/trucks/SUVs and would certainly be looking at a loaded mid-size SUV.

Obviously the good times have returned for dealer and buyer based on current sales. Avg. sales price for cars sold in June was over $31K.

Gogiboy

gogiboy · August 2013

I might have mentioned this before, but in my middle class neighborhood there are 25 houses. We have 6 Jeep Wranglers ranging from a rebuilt 1980 or 81 up to at least three that are no more than three years old. Two, possibly three, were bought new in the last 1 1/2 years. All of the owners are male and all are around my age (mid-50s) with the exception of one fellow who is in his 40s. The most recent arrival is another four-door with fancy wheels. It doesn't appear that any are ever taken off road and one of the newest ones has a sparkling candy apple red paint job, which to me doesn't seem very Jeep-like. The owner babies it like a pampered child. In his case it replaced a nearly new Avalanche.

I'm not sure what this says--if anything--other than there are a lot of early-middle to middle aged men who like Jeep Wranglers. On campus there are dozens, but most are older models and many have oversize wheels/tires so I would characterize those as a different demographic.

Gogiboy

robr2 · August 2013

Ford had two Titanium Pkg Ford Escapes and both were $36.5-$38K. It was a Sunday and I'm not in the market so I don't know about incentives. The highest CRV-L I saw was $32 or $32.5K. I only looked at the window stickers.

At that price, the Escapes are Titaniums with AWD, the 2.0 EcoBoost, the panorama sunroof, BLIS, HID's, power liftgate and the Sync/Nav system. None of those items are available on the CR-V so you really can't compare just by looking at the high end trims.

Ford has been working very hard to bring up the level of equipment, technology, and luxury in their compact offerings in an effort to improve the profitability of what have always been low margin vehicles. Compare a Focus to a Civic or Corolla to see what is offered.

nyccarguy · August 2013

Maybe a Wrangler is the "new" mid life crisis car for the 21st century. Corvettes are sooooooo 1980s anyway (Sarcasm - anybody who knows me knows I'd drive a C6 corvette in a heart beat). I am approaching "the big 4 - 0" in about 2 1/2 years anyway...

Used Unlimited '12 prices are crazy close to pricing of new 2013s. I think I could do a Sport S with a few options and keep the MSRP under $35K. A dealer near me has a Dune Clearcoat (Beige) with U Connect, Dual Tops, Seat Mounted Side Air Bags, Automatic, Alpine Radio, Sirius, & Destination for $34,455 MSRP. Sounds like I could live with that:)

roadburner · August 2013

That's a $40K check you are going to write which could also buy you a very nice Boxster S

My local Jeep dealer had a CPO 2012 equipped as I described for $29K. But I would rather keep my TJ for the time being.

verdugo · August 2013

However, sales from June to July 2013 fell by -(6.4%) yet the press is jubilant about this outcome.

That's because July has traditionally been a lower volume month than June. That is true in the good years as in the bad years.

verdugo · August 2013

Wrangler owners wave at each other as they pass.

In town, I don't get many waves -- probably 10%.

But up in Lake Tahoe, I get close to 70%.

:shades:

isellhondas · August 2013

I just spent two hours with my son cleaning up his Wrangler after his day in the woods yesterday. He took a lot of photos and I can tell you, I'm damm glad I wasn't in it this time.

It's a matter of time.....

isellhondas · August 2013

I'm surprised the FJ made that list.

We had two traded in that had less than 1000 miles on them.

Reason in both cases was due to horrific rear visibility!

isellhondas · August 2013

Well, the CRV's are AWD too. I'm not sure what the Eco Boost part means but our 2013 CRV has more than enough power. We have a large sunroof, may not a "panorama" sunroof but certainly big enough to please us on the rare occasions when we open it. I have no idea what BLIS is.

We don't have HID's but they can be added aftermarket for not a lot of money.

No Sync (whatever that is?) but NAVI is available as an option.

No power liftgate....I don't know how we manage...would be nice I suppose?

Honda tries to keep prices down by not adding equipment that the majority of buyers have little use for. As demand for these items increase, they are added and the prices go up.

I do agree, Ford is building some great new cars but MAN, do they charge for them!

explorerx4 · August 2013

Improved safety and fuel economy ratings have their price.
Our 2004 Escape which had everything except towing package listed for about 28,500. Our new Escape, which probably has everything listed for 37,500.
In addition to what Robr2 mentioned, I'll pile on a few more features, from looking at the sticker for my wife's 2013 Escape. Larger wheels, roof rack with cross bars, push button start, remote start, keypad entry, 110v outlet, ambient lighting.
Of course, all these features may or may not matter to a prospective buyer, but they are there.

oldfarmer50 · August 2013

Was this gas or electric? I replaced the lower element in my electric heater for 20 bucks recently. To have someone show up probably costs $100 plus parts.

isellhondas · August 2013

No, in most cases they wouldn't matter so why pay for them?

Larger wheels are nice I suppose but unnecessary. For those who have a use for a roof rack that's a good thing. Most people (me) have no use so why pay for it.

to me, push button start is of zero value. I mean WHY?? My 1952 Chevy had a starter button! Remote start? Most people could care less. keypad entry? Again, WHY? 110 outlet most people would never use and "ambient" lighting whatever that is?

Soon we will have 100,000 dollar Escapes loaded with useless options the majority of buyers have no use for.

roadburner · August 2013

Electric- everybody have their guesses in?

imidazol97 · August 2013

>Electric- everybody have their guesses in?

Guesses in. Hope I did better than I did in Saturday's Superlotto drawing. :sick:

roadburner · August 2013

The bill for upper and lower t-stsat replacement on my electric hot water heater was...(drum roll)...

$123.00!!!
Parts: $38.00
Labor: $95.00

explorerx4 · August 2013

Acura buyers value technology and convenience features more than the school marm CR-V buyers. That's why I said a high end Escape is better compared to Acura.

stickguy · August 2013

drive a CR-V and RDX back to back. There is a world of difference.

explorerx4 · August 2013

That's exactly my point.

robr2 · August 2013

I'm not sure what the Eco Boost part means...

That's Ford's turbo engine - extra power with better fuel economy.

I have no idea what BLIS is.

Blind Spot Information System - warns the driver via visual cues in the mirrors that a car in it the blind spots.

We don't have HID's but they can be added aftermarket for not a lot of money.

I'd rather have a factory designed system then some jury rigged aftermarket attempt that'll run a few hundred $$$

No Sync (whatever that is?) but NAVI is available as an option.

Sync is Ford's infotainment system - designed to appeal to technophiles and younger buyers.

No power liftgate....I don't know how we manage...would be nice I suppose?

The Escape's can be operated with a sweep of the foot under the bumper - makes life easy when your arms are full.

Honda tries to keep prices down by not adding equipment that the majority of buyers have little use for.

But one can get a much lower spec Escape - they start at about $22K and when equipped similarly are very competitive price wise.

I do agree, Ford is building some great new cars but MAN, do they charge for them!

As ex said, the higher spec units are targeted more at Acura which is a brand that likes to tout tech.

Heck, there's been a Honda in my driveway since 1991. They are great cars but right now they lack something - they've become more appliance like in the past 10 years. As I noted before, my Dad has a 2013 CR-V. It's a perfectly fine car but a little boring and IMHO, homely. Doesn't make it a bad car - just not what I'm looking for.

explorerx4 · August 2013

My sister lives in a rural area, but her husband drives a BMW 5 and she a Prius V.
They just bought a 14 year old F150.
While they were away for a few days, some friends appropriately decorated their house.
The best part was replacing some pictures with stuffed deer heads.
Pretty awesome prank.
A friend replaced their totaled seven year old Jetta with a new GLI model.

jayrider · August 2013

Local plumber company wanted $810 to change out a garbage disposal. Base model. I said no of course and had it done $175 including a better unit. It took 15 minutes. Of course all the old ladies living alone make up the bulk of their business.

nyccarguy · August 2013

That's a 2 Door Wrangler (JKR), right? Not an Unlimited.

nyccarguy · August 2013

isellhondas · August 2013

A lot of the "school marm" CRV buyers are simply more prudent on how they spend their money. The "must have" trivial options are of little value to them.

Funny, when I was in the business the people who had the most money and the best credit were usually the ones who were the most conservative.

I like a well equipped car too but a lot of these "important" options are of zero value to me. A push button starter tops that list. Again, WHY?

isellhondas · August 2013

I agree. The RDX is far from being a "glorified CRV" as some people call them.

Nothing there for me that would warrant spending the extra money.

isellhondas · August 2013

Ok, thanks for the information.

Personally I don't need a turbo. They can be troublesome and I think our CRV has adequate power without the complexity of a turbo.

BLIS - Would he helpful I suppose but I have somehow managed without it.

Sync - I've heard it's complicated. I'm neither a "younger" or a tecno and I don't feel like learning something I don't care about.

Power liftgate...Seems like a trouble prone gimmick but cool at the same time.

To each his/her own. My only point was all of these "extras" that we have managed to survive without are blowing prices through the roofs. Some people are buying cars they can't afford just to be ahead of the curve.

nyccarguy · August 2013

It's a matter of time... Before he starts modifying his Jeep?

Edmunds recently had a 2 Door Wrangler Sport as part of their long term fleet. Usually they put vehicles through a 20,000 mile test. They put well over 30,000 miles on it before the test was up.

nyccarguy · August 2013

It was actually the top of the list. FJ Cruisers are worth approximately 65% of their original value after 5 years. I was shocked at that too as I never thought they were anything special. Mega-Gigantic Blind Spots indeed.

roadburner · August 2013

Exactly- I don't need a four door, and the JKR is even shorter and more off-road capable than my TJ.

A few years ago my wife hinted that we really didn't need the Wrangler and that we should probably sell it. That winter we had a storm that dropped almost 5" of snow and 1" of ice , dropping fifteen or so trees across the road to our house. Thanks to the Lord and Jeep engineers we were able to bypass all but two of the trees by cutting across a snowy/icy/muddy cornfield in my trusty TJ. Our power was off for over fourteen hours so the Jeep allowed us to reach civilization and obtain hot coffee and Mexican food for lunch.
After that my beautiful bride never again suggested selling the Wrangler...

isellhondas · August 2013

Modifying?

Already done to some extent. Original tires weren't good enough so they were upgraded at great expense. HID headlights...not Mickey Mouse either...high intensity fogs that are so bright I can't believe them.

And, of course, a winch in front.

****SIGH****

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