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2007 and newer Lincoln Navigators
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Comments
I don't think it is wise to tone anything down, when it is coming up against the chrome-laden Escalade.
The Lincoln is still using the same body shell as when they were introduced 9 years ago.
I disagree, scooter - 1: The Navigator was thoroughly "refreshed" for 03. A couple of door panels that came over is irrelevant - the truck was remodeled with an independent rear suspension and 3rd row seats unrivaled in the industry today, certainly not rivaled by Cadillac's "you pull em out and stow them somewhere" seats. The Lincoln's powerfold completely into the floor making it flat. In addition the Lincoln got a 4valve OHC engine in 00, something Cadillac hasn't yet achieved either. Technology in the Cadillac is negligable compared to Lincoln. Lincoln had cooled front seats and park assist in 02.
Let's go over the Bruthalade for a minute. I happened to take a thorough test drive in an 07 just yesterday. GM laughed their heads off at the Navigator in 97 when it debuted as a 98 model - but the darn thing sold so they hurried and put a wreath and crest on a Denali, and sold it as a Cadillac in 00 - for one year. There were no 01's. Meantime, they were reskinning that Denali, the frame and architecture by the way on that go back to 1988. Anyway, in 02 it comes out looking hot. But still had a Chevy Truck dash and interior by and large, with some plood leather and vinyl. That, my friend is not a complete refresh, it's a reskin. It remained in that low tech condition until 07 when it was remodeled to a GMT900 platform, and admittedly, I was impressed with the new one. So, it has had one reskin and one remodel. The Navigator had a remodel, and for 07, a reskin. Sounds the same to me. The Navigator still out techs the Cadillac though.
What did I like about the Escalade. Power from the new pushrod, old fashioned 6.2L engine. IT's a beast, alright. Much better than the 06 was. Interior, it's not unique to the Cadillac still, it's just like a Tahoe with better plood. Still a fault with the Slade. However, it's a nice one. FINALLY, GM has a touch screen Navigation (Which Ford has had since 00). It's DVD driven. Seats are great - they always were. If you get the ESV, it's nice, the regular one is still a little tight in the back. I'd buy one, frankly, it's so nice looking, if only they could figure out how to get that 3rd seat right. A full remodel is needed again, already.
However, The Slade has had 3 complete body changes. Everything: windshield, all glass, A, B and C pillars, every single body panel and all interior pieces. Like Toyota always does when it issues a redesign.
Is it meaningful? Depends on what you want, but the average Joe isn't going to look at a 2002 Nav and a 03 and see much more than a yearly update, even though they are significantly different underneath. The 99 and the 07 still use the same windshield, same door glass, same door panels, same A, B, C pillars (the tailgate area was altered) and essentially all the same mounting points for the few new panels. That's one reason why fewer and fewer people take notice of them.
The 07 grill was an attempt to differentiate, but to most eyes it looks like they put a different grill on the same vehicle. It looks like the yearly updates Detroit used to do years ago on every model, between thorough re-designs. It is one of the ways Ford tried to cut corners, and now they are living with the result: even more market share loss.
Now, I don't like the departure from a "Lincoln look" with the traditional waterfall grill. That's a huge mistake for the Navi and the MKX. You'd think Lincoln would have learned that, going down the road of "no one knows what a Lincoln's supposed to look like" in the 50's, but considering it on a stand-alone basis, I liked the "in your face" grill. I like the taillights. I even like the center stack. (I never understood the purpose of a lid over the radio controls. Maybe over the auto climate controls, but not the radio.) Ignoring the previous gen's classy electrolum instruments, I even liked the retro gauges.
I'll never buy one of these behemoths, of any ilk, foreign or domestic, but if I were to, I'd seriously consider the Navi.
There. I can't believe I wrote that.
Crow is a dish that is best served cold........ :sick:
My opinion is not much different. Though I do think the front end might grow on me, I find the instrument panel to have no redeeming qualities. Ugly black plastic for the vents - blech. Guages from a 78 Ford Granada? Blech. Center stack with cheap looking wood? Ugh. Really just a travesty when compared with what was in the truck. I'll bet they did it because they saved maybe $50.00 per vehicle It definitely is NOT a selling feature of the new one.
The new center wood I saw was a light brown -- the center stack, to me, seemed more "substantial" and richer than the silver, plasticky stack on the '03 I once owned. Tapping on the center console produced a nice "thunk".
I was never a big fan of the fold-down plastic lid, nor of the brushed aluminum look of the earlier Nav center stack. In my opinion it looked nice, but not too elegant.
The jury is still out for me on this new look. I can say this, it does look better with repeated viewing.
The things is, I am trying to CONVINCE myself to like the redesign because I like the suv in general.
Having to convince myself I like it is NOT a good thing. A successful redesign in my mind would've had me drooling for a new Navigator at first sight.
The biggest factor for me will be how the new truck drives. HP and oomph was fine for me in the '03 but the noise-vibration-harshness attributes while on the freeway was below par in my truck.
I want a buttery smooth and ultra quiet ride --don't know if the new NAV (or ANY large SUV) can give me that, though.
Any test-drivers out there care to comment on the ride?
1. I like the exterior design. The power running boards and the chrome strip down the side is a bit high on the cheese factor but the exterior is not a show-stopper for me.
2. Interior: The blond wood is excellent. However, the interior plastic is of such poor quality that it defies explanation. It looks painted. The right side of the dash has a huge swath of it over the airbag and it's just hideous. I don't mind the throw-back gauges but they are hard to read.
3. Ride. Acceleration is adequate. Felt less stable at all speeds, with more vibration and wind noise, then the Yukon Denali I rode in. Wallows around like a pregnant dog.
4. Interior room. Second row was much better than the Denali. Third row was cramped but easy enter/exit. Fold-Away seat required a very high load level which seemed to diminish the interior space.
In general, fit and finished were far below what I would expect in a 59K SUV. I would buy a fully loaded Yukon Denali for 53K anytime over the Lincoln..
ok my impressions.
exterior: very nice i will rate it 10 out of 10. i have to say i did not like the beast when it first showed itself in april i do believe. ever angle of this suv is really nice. the rear bumper doesnt not have reverse sensors popping out unlike escalade. body lines are very nice. i own a 2007 escalade white diamond loaded $67,000(first one sold at the dealership) and i notice the front bumper lines and rear bumper lies pop out not noticable until you look close. navigator did a nice job. the power deploying boards are just awesome. i will have to have a lil complaint the mirrors are kinda small i wonder how the l version is going to do? the one i test drove was 58 grand nice compare to my 67 sticker price.
interior: words can not descrip the interior is so elegant in every way. comofortable in all seats and they are very comfy. the gear shift is a my favorite thing, makes it seem sporty to me. i love the center stack with wood, i love wood, but i wish lincoln would have put a bigger navigation screen like the escalade. i love the steering wheel with more controls than the escalade. also the steering wheels adjust tilt was a major plus. cadillac falling behind here. i love the navigation system was very easy to work with compared to my escalade. the only down about this was that the color of the navigation seemed blan without color caddy added color. one more little complaint with the navigation was it didnt have a reverse camera.
ride: ride was superior. it absorbed every bump nicely. driving this navigator really seemed like i was driving on clouds. with front and rear independent suspension mades it seems floating. steering was very adequate. i went on the freeway and was really really quiet inside. this navigator out does my escalade with ride quality by far shot. braking was good but thought it could be a little better. the escalade 22" make it a chore driving on highway over 65 mph always fixing the steering, the navi 20" handle very well. the audio system was great with 14 speakers and subwoofer made it sound so beautiful, may be a tad bit better that bose in the escalade. as for hp it was good not as good as escalade. escalade has great power and nice muffler sounds, but a gas guzzler. navigator in the long run is better, better towing compacity that escalade as well as payload. the third row according to my children was fantastic.
what i have to say it that lincoln a while back had a list of options listed to add to the navigator in near future and it went beyond technology. more than caddy and infiniti. and a 350+ hp. i talked to the dealership and he said there are more navi coming in 11-20-2006 really considering trading in my escalade in for one. but before i do i want to look at the blue navi. my escalade has 12000 miles a lot of traveling on it. my wife just got a new expedition el limited sandy white and it gorgoues jealous it turns more heads than my escalade. honestly i will trade in the escalade for either a black or blue one. will look tomorrow. will own the new navi for a lil bit then trade it in for l version.
I saw an 07 Navi on the road for the first time.
It looked "okay".
I liked the rear, the front still doesn't convince me, but it was just a quick glance.
The front rims could not be seen due to the blackish/reddish brake dust covering them.
I had a brake dust issue with my 03 Navi -- but I thought they would've addressed this issue by now.
I was cleaning the chrome rims every two days to keep them shiny -- a real pain.
It would be GREAT if lincoln would add front parking sensors and a rearview camera to the truck.
Maybe for '08?
Also, Navi '08 -- how are you able to trade in and out of lux vehicles so often? I get itchy for new toys often too, but the financial hit of making quick trades always puts a stop to my itch -- FAST. It's gotta be expensive to do that, no?
2. Smart key that lets you open doors with the FOB in your pocket
3. Rear Camera
4. Front-side parking sensors
5. Bluetooth cell phone hookup
Maybe for '08?
This is one of those "It seemed cool on the test-drive but now it drives me crazy" ideas.
As for the rest - fuggetaboutit. Bluetooth and rear camera should be there, but r u kidding? they would cost more than a buck a piece.
The key chain stays in my briefcase or in my wife's purse. To open the locked door I just pull on the handle. To start the car I just turn the knob -- no fuss looking for keys anymore.
At first it seemed like a "gee-whiz" useless gadget to me too -- but now that I am totally keyless I LOVE it.
I've even set up my house door (inside the garage) to open electronically using the homelink buttons in the car.
Same with the bluetooth, parking sensors, and rearview camera -- at first they seemed like unnecessary gadgets, now I feel strange when driving a car without them.
I hope these items get included in an options package in the future for those who want them.
I guess the keyless feature has a wow factor, but I'd take the ancient Ford keypad over the keyless. It's nice being able to leave the car running, but locked, when running in to the 7-11 for a cup of coffee, or leaving the keys in the car when going to the gym.
The only people who "dis" them have never owned a car with one.
This is another one of those things that Ford does better than everyone else but they don't advertise. Frustrating.
Rocky
Rocky
It's okay though...At least they didn't buy a Hyundai
Rocky
Here are the reasons given:
has a more features in that escalade. beside the rear view camera. the tilt steering wheel, power third row, temp controls on steering wheel, power deploying boards(saw an escalade with them it didnt seem to look right just have a chrome bar on bottom made it look tacky((they using lincoln idea with power deployin boards)). it is also roomier as well.
Styling is totally subjective. I'd buy an Expedition or Navigator over a Suburban or Escalade just based on the styling and a few features, not to mention X plan discounts.
In 2004 when I bought my Navigator, there was really no contest. The Nav had a much nicer interior (a big factor for me), the ride and handling are great in it etc.
Now, the dashboard of the Nav has been destroyed, IMHO, and the Escalade interior is much much better than before - and is now better than the Nav's IMHO. The 100 HP advantage is important but also the mpg is in the slade's favor these days, is it not? And although the front end of the Nav is growing on me, I prefer the styling of the Escalade now.
In addition, the rear view camera option beats the beeping radar that my Nav has and the temp control on the steering wheel, while nice, causes other radio control features to not be there.
I agree with Edmunds quote here: "the 2007 Cadillac Escalade excels. Like-priced competitors such as the Infiniti QX56 and Lincoln Navigator may edge it out in one area or another, but overall the Escalade is a superior vehicle. In our opinion, paying a lot more money for a Lexus LX 470 or Land Rover Range Rover is an exercise in diminishing returns."
With one last caveat: The Escalade has ONLY AWD. The Navigator has AWD plus true 4WD with low range. This is a HUGE plus for the Nav - IF you plan on off-road or even a lot of snow driving.
Rocky
Rocky
I'm not knocking the Escalade as much as I'm saying there are reasons why people prefer the Navigator that are every bit as valid as the reasons why you prefer the Escalade. To each his own.
But styling preference aside, the slade styling has the attribute of being fresher. This third generation is a big improvement over the first and even the second. The gator, however, looks too much like a first generation with a new grill, tailgate and bumpers. A bit stale.
I think that the escalade does have a styling advantage inside and out... that opinion was not the case for me on previous generations of these trucks.
Still, the fold flat third row is a MAJOR advantage for the Navi. Having an uneven cargo area due to the seats being folded is a PAIN.
I've gotta drive an escalade to see if the HP REALLY makes a big difference.
Overall I think the caddy made a more substantial improvement jump than did the Navi.
IMO, the escalade was an ugly mess prior to this generation's debut.
Now the two trucks are pretty much even......
exterior style
interior fit and finish
sound system
rear entertainment system ( I believe that the Slade loads DVD's in the dash, while the Navigator loads in the overhead console)
Ride
Do either of these trucks have bluetooth?
Unfortunately, if you want a folding 3rd row, you're stuck with the Armada/QX56 with it's awful reliability or the Durango/Aspen, which really doesn't have the goodies to compete in this league.
I started a full-sized luxury SUV thread but it died a quick death. I'm still considering the Slade vs. Navigator vs. Yukon Denali vs. LX470.
Huh? Ford invented the concept in 02 with the Explorer, and put it into the Expedition and Navigator in 03. Nissan cleverly copied it, and so has Dodge. Good idea. I'm surprised Toyota is taking so long to improve on it, but GM will never get it. Just bringing out the GMT900 line without it, is insanity. But, more horsepower will compensate, evidently.
Ford has always been the wagonmaster, with the best wagons first. Same with trucks. GM is an also ran in innovation these days. Not saying their trucks aren't good, they are. Just the last to get technology.
I believe neither the Slade or Gator have bluetooth yet.
Rocky
Sounds like a strange design to me.
Give me a current Lexus LX470 with the Navi's interior room and current third row set up and I'd pay WHATEVER they ask for the darned truck.
I still think Lincoln would be smart to offer a "geek" options package including all the goodies we've talked about here.
Any Ford insiders here care to comment if that'll be possible in the near future?
I agree with the comment about the LX470 replacement. An updated LX with same goodies that are in the current LS460 would be a dream come true. I guarantee we will be spending a pretty penny for one once it comes out. Hopefully, fall 2007 as a 2008 model.
"Overall, truck sales were down 13 percent, but the company's all-new, full-size sport utility vehicles (Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator) posted higher sales. Expedition sales were up 14 percent and Navigator sales were up 65 percent."
65 percent increase in sales?!?!? Either the '05's were selling really S-L-O-W-L-Y or the new model is a big hit -- at least initially. Perhaps a mixture of both?
heated washshield fluid was not a great advantage it didnt work to well. the steering wheel really forget about that feature it does not work at all, there was no heat coming from it at all. as for fuel the navigator gets better gas mielage and longer range on full tank. from experience of owning an 2007 slade now owning a 07 navigator. the intellbeams did not work all that well. when you coming to a big sign at night they will go back to low beam due to the reflect on the sign, the intellbeam needs improvements. the phone on the slade was a good feature but was hard to talk to and hard for the other person to understand conversation due to the exaust tone in the cabin. as for price range the navi is a great deal with more loaded features. also the navi can use regular graded while the escalade uses prem. navi is far better.