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cccompson · July 2007

I agree, aepheme. MSRP/lease payment is the surest way to calculate lease value.

aepheme · July 2007

For those who are interested: I was curious how much over invoice cars are going (in terms of TMV) for in the JD Powers "Premium CUV" Category. There are 14 cars in that category (and 2 in the "compact premium" category). All listed below are 2007 AWD 6 cyl versions:

1. Lexus GX470 - 7.7%
2. BMW X5 - 7.2%
3. BMW X3 - 6.6%
4. Acura MDX - 5.7%
5. Audi Q7 - 3.3%
6. Acura RDX - 3.0%
7. Lexus RX350 - 2.3%
8. Lincoln MKX - 1.4%
9. Volvo XC90 - 1.3%
10. Volkswagen Touareg - 1.2%
11. Volvo XC70 - 1.1%
12. Infiniti FX35 - 0.3%
13. Mercedes ML350 - NEG 0.5%
14. Mercedes R350 - NEG 1.2%
15. Cadillac SRX - NEG 3.4%
16. Saab 9-7X - NEG 12.1%

There are a number of reasons why a car's market value may vary from the invoice. The manufacturer could have a systematic pattern of marking their cars too high. The market conditions could be such that specific models aren't selling as well as expected. Or the car could be ill received by the customer base and difficult to sell... Or maybe there's just a temporary discount to encourage early sales.

Anyway, it's interesting to see. More data!

janda1 · July 2007

Great advice. my insurance company charges $39.00 a year for GAp.
Slimy checked with his "District Manager" and stated we do not need to take the Gap and they will apply the rebate anyway. Very nice. The finance rate is .7 percent for 36 months. The price I got was for the sentra SL with mats 18,200 minus $1000.00 in rebates. After tax ($300), and Doc fees (bogus) of $394.50, registration and tag fees $49.00 and $39.00. Out the door for $17989.50

PS car arrived but my wife found a paint defect on the right rear pillar. Sales Manager says that he would not let us by the car with that problem. He is now looking for a new one for us. Should be in in three days. Do you thik I should haggle the Doc fee or am I getting overly greedy?

dtownfb · July 2007

Assuming the price of the car includes the destination charge, you did pretty well. Not sure how much leverage you have since the ony thing you are waiting for is the actual delivery of the car. YOu can always ask. But it seems like you are happy with your current deal.

greanpea68 · July 2007

It would be just as easy for them to switch out the rear spoiler if the can't get another car.

janda1 · July 2007

Heard today they found a car 300 miles away and will be ready at noon tomorrow. Comes with a couple of extras,mouldings and wheel guards. Manager says no charge.
We shall see tomorrow how things turn out.

Also that deal did include delivery.

janda1 · July 2007

Good point Greenpea. Latest is they found a car 300 miles away with side mouldings which the sales manager says will be no charge. Supposed to be ready tomorrow.
SO far so good.
Thanks for the advice.

kyfdx · August 2007

Edmunds.com True Market Value® Deals of the Month

kyfdx · October 2007

..is advertising 2007 Infiniti G35 Coupes..

$37,295 MSRP

$29,995 Selling price

I know these are the outgoing body style, but that is a lot of car for $30K..

plekto · October 2007

Dodge has $6000 back on its Ram 1500s, which is also a silly amount off. And, of course, there's the aging Grand Marquis., which is also $6000 off on the 2007s.

jipster · October 2007

What local Infiniti dealer are you refering to kyfdx? I always wanted to drive the same kind of car kirstie does.

kyfdx · October 2007

Cincinnati...

Funny, though.. I know quite a few people that head to your local dealer to get better deals..

jipster · October 2007

Yup... The Sam Swope dealerships are the biggest in Louisville. I got a good price and service with the pre-owned Buick I bought.

chigirlintexas · December 2007

Last weekend, I leased a 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland from Grubbs Chrylser Jeep in Bedford (Dallas suburb). While it took a bit of negotiating, we got the price we wanted. There were virtually no vehicles in the entire metro area that had the color/features I wanted, but Grubbs happened to have one and we were able to make the deal. I would highly recommend them, as they treated us with respect, and though some haggling was necessary, I never felt that they were trying to pull one over on us.

Huffhines Jeep, in Plano, is another story. I shopped for a Liberty there last month, and both the salesman and his manager gave us that "sleaze-bag" feeling. They way underballed our trade, and though we had told them what we wanted to pay (armed with Edmund's TMV, invoice and a pre-calculation of what our lease payment should be), they kept telling us they were giving us a great deal, though it was nearly $200 over what we told them we were willing to pay. I ended up getting the JCG at $100 less than what Huffhines wanted for leasing a Liberty.

Bankston Jeep, in Frisco, didn't have the vehicle I wanted in stock, though it was listed in their online inventory. The sales guy, while pleasant enough, didn't know his stuff and we left without even trying to negotiate. He didn't know what was standard on the vehicle and though it has been a week since we visited the dealership, he never followed up with us.

FYI, I was able to negotiate and lease a Honda Accord a few years ago completely online. I figured out the value of my trade, the price I should pay for the car (including holdback), and then sent out emails to local dealerships who had the model/color I wanted, with the figures I had come up with and the payment I wanted. Lute Riley Honda in Richardson was first to respond, and I went in two days later, signed the paperwork, and drove home in the Accord. It was by far the best car-buying experience I've ever had. I would highly recommend them if you want to buy a Honda. Honda Cars of McKinney tried to sell my daughter a Civic LX but put in the paperwork that it was an EX....somehow, that must be illegal. We got them to rescind the deal and she ended up getting an Accord for the same price they were going to charge her for the Civic, but the sleaze factor was pretty evident.

Hope this information is helpful to anyone in the Dallas area shopping for a Jeep or Honda!

Kirstie_H · December 2007

Thanks! Posting your experience with the dealerships in our Dealership Ratings and Reviews section:
http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/drr/jump.html
increases the likelihood that shoppers in your area will see & take heed of your recommendations & warnings.

chigirlintexas · December 2007

Thanks, I wasn't sure where to post this info....I'll add it to the link you referenced.

occupant1 · December 2007

Agreed, Grubbs is a top-notch dealership. I'm also partial to Meador down on the south side of Fort Worth.

I will not under any circumstances recommend walking into Lute Riley Honda. Their internet department is fine, and even buying used through internet is good (internet used car prices are significantly below asking prices on the lot), but don't deal with anyone but internet there. They were featured on 20/20 a few years back for various types of scams and I worked there for a few weeks at that time, fall 2003.

This 19-year old kid came in with crutches saying he totaled his car, needed something to drive for $3500 cash ONLY. No financing because he did not have a job and wouldn't be able to work for a few more months while his hip healed. We had an older Accord coupe (93 I think) which he was very interested in. The sales manager refused to let me sell him that Accord and breathed fire upon me demanding he have his girlfriend co-sign on a loan for a $16K 2000 model Accord coupe. When the girlfriend refused, the manager wanted his parents to come in. They were deceased and the customer got very agitated. Then the manager asked about grandparents and the kid and his girl walked out.

I walked out right after them and told the kid to go down the street to the Toyota of Richardson lot where they had at least ten cars for $5K or less and he was able to buy a somewhat better 1994 Accord coupe for his $3500 cash, out the door. I quit that day and didn't look back on car sales for a while. Tried a Saturn dealer and found they no longer hold to traditional Saturn values and didn't even finish training there.

I drive a tow truck now and couldn't be happier. And I recommend my local new car dealers for darn near everything.

chigirlintexas · December 2007

Wow, that's unbelievably bad stuff about Lute Riley. I had heard some people had had problems with them, and of course, my experience was good but handled almost completely over the Internet and it was in 2004.

We encountered a Ford dealership that was just unbelievable--the sales manager sat behind his great big desk, with autographed pictures of celebrities covering the walls of his office (sports personalities, movie and TV stars, past presidents, etc.). Our seats, which faced him, were deliberately made such that we sat very low, barely reaching the top of his desk, and giving the illusion of the sales manager sitting on a throne, looking down on us, wielding his power. He was nothing but a sleazy good ol' boy, and he didn't even give us the courtesy of acknowledging that we had any intelligence or discernment when it came to evaluating a deal. We left and will never go back.

I hate having to go through the hassle it always takes to buy a new car. When I hear things like this, it makes me even more tense about the next time I'll have to go into a dealership. Thanks for sharing, it may prove to be helpful to many of us!

PS Which Honda dealership in DFW would you recommend? Which ones beside Lute Riley to stay away from?

sstriker · February 2008

Hello all.First a thanx to all for all of the helpful info I have gotten here..i have been lurking for to long.

I signed a lease deal tonight on an 08 Honda Odysey base model for 36 months 12k a year $258 a month sign & drive (Tax, Title ,Tags $1,000 and change extra)

I asked sales rep about what rebates i am eligble for and his jaw hit the floor....the slaesman at the adjacent desk couldnt help look in our direction over his shoulder to size me up....

Make a long story short he says the Rebate/Dealer cash is already built into the lease because it was a loss lead in deal...the money factor results in a 3% rate and it looks like its a decent deal..

I am just looking for some feedback on what you guys here may think of this deal....I really wanted that rebate but they were not giving it up.

$1,500 exterior damage waiver to with no junk fees other than Bank fee ($600.00) bult in to the numbers.

Thanks in advance for feedback...

cccompson · February 2008

There is no rebate as such but rather $1000 marketing incentive to dealers on Odyssey leases. You did fine - your numbers are somewhat better than a national lease offer on this model that Honda has been running.

sstriker · February 2008

Thanks for the reply cccompson....I figured I did good on this deal...of all the ads and research I have been doing this one popped out at me immediately...they tried the upsell but I just did not feel the options offered were worth what they wanted.

Thanks to edmunds & forums like this I know a good deal when I se one and have a much better negotiating edge.

The only mistake I made was not comparing invoice to msrp to see what they were basing their numbers on...msrp was
$24,409 but not bad.

Just wish they had my color...I may try to match the deal to find my color...I hate to do that but I dont want to look at a color in my driveway I am not crazy about.

Thanks agin all!

kyfdx · August 2008

Now that you can buy any GM for the employee price minus the rebate, what is the best deal out there?

One example: Saab 9-7X (TrailBlazer clone).
Base model MSRP approx. $42K.
Employee price minus rebate = just under $30K. (don't ask about the gas mileage.. :surprise: )

Got any others?

qbrozen · August 2008

Not sure GM has anything I'd want.

Maybe the Cobalt SS ... but does that even qualify?

Welll... OK, a Z06 appeals, but out of my pricerange and usability scale.

I'm hearing of deep discounts on the EX35.
Do you NEED something large?

kyfdx · August 2008

Oh... I wasn't really posting here to find something for me... Just wondering if anyone had spotted any real anomalies in the GM program..

The wife saw the EX35 when we were in Sarasota on vacation... "But, that isn't an SUV, it's a wagon".

Wagons and minivans are out... don't try to make sense of it..

imariquinn · August 2008

I thought that GM would be making some deals on the SUV's sitting on their lots, but I did not have much success...

Last Friday, I contact a Chevy dealer near me with 23 - 2008 Chevy Equinox SUV's on the lot. I was not picky with colors and was even looking at the base model with little to no upgrades. He gave me $1000 off MSRP of $23395 to $22393 as a SPECIAL INTERNET PRICE, then took off the $2500 rebate off for a total of $3500 off. I wrote back and he gave me a sob story of that is $42 above invoice, boo hoo.

I told him I wanted $18000 out the door, not picky in color and that I would buy today. He wrote back that if GM has an additional $3144 rebate coming out, he would call me...

Instead I went to the Nissan dealer down the street and purchased an 08 Quest S with drivers pkg & seat pkg (not just a base model). They only had 3 on the lot - with an MSRP of $28600 for $17100 (with a $3500 rebate).

Now, that is a company willing to make some deals (Nissan) ... GM was NOT!

This is just my experience...

guss · August 2008

I plan to take a look at the Malibu this weekend. They have not been discounted much, maybe about $500. With the employee pricing GM is taking $1700 off. Not alot but it is now more competitive.

I was also surprised the Aura Hybrid and Vue Hybrid were included. I thought they were selling well.

If you are looking for a Suv a Hummer H2 can be had for $12k off. Maybe double that and I could be interested.

jchan2 · August 2008

I know Infiniti is doing some serious discounting on EX35s, G35s, and M35/45s, pretty much anything except for the G37. Especially if you qualify for loyalty rebates like I do, you could walk out in an M35 for as much as $3K below invoice.

Quite attractive, but.. I'm in no need for a new luxury car right now. I will admit, though, the EX35 is one beautiful car, but the fuel economy on all the Infinitis is atrocious, and they all require Premium.

Today in the paper I saw the following deal:
Buy a 2008 Nissan Quest, Titan, Frontier, Xterra, or Pathfinder, and get a 2009 Nissan Versa 1.8S for free. The tag line was "Drive the Versa when you need to, and the Titan/Quest/Frontier/Xterra/Pathfinder when you want to"

Not a bad deal, really, but I'm sure this is all bait and switch.

On the GM Employee Pricing, I'm liking the deals on the Saab 9-3, but I'm biased because I like the cars. Nothing else is particularly attractive, though, especially when Nissan's doing some serious dealing.

corvette · August 2008

It should be the other way around: Buy a Versa, and get a Titan for free. :P

graphicguy · August 2008

It should be the other way around: Buy a Versa, and get a Titan for free.

Now, there's a marketing idea that would get some people in the door.

GM is making deals all over the place. I even saw an ad for something along the lines of $10K off a Tahoe hybrid. Saw some of the same big discounts on Corvettes. It makes me drool just a little bit.

kyfdx....I'm with you on the EX 35. I drove one when I was out shopping recently. Although I was impressed, I was left with the idea of "what's the point?" There really isn't enough room in it to even qualify as a wagon.

jchan2 · August 2008

I guess that's why it's being heavily discounted. Even the backseat is far smaller than that of a G35 (looking at the dimensions)

Combine that with a higher price, and you're destined to have a product that will be discounted heavily.

It's a very beautiful car, though, despite the lack of space, and it does seem more practical than a G35...

amorak · August 2008

Hi Everyone, greatings from your friends up North :shades:

My mum is looking to upgrade to something new from her current 2001 RAV4, which has about 120,000KM on it (~75K Mi).

Anyways, she is trying not to put out too much, and thankfuly these RAVs have a great resale value up here. Couple that with the common border we share with you guys and the knowledge available online, it is easy for us Canucks to buy a car down south (maybe Canadian dealers will stop gouging us if we speak with our wallets and buy down south...).

Anyways, long story short - What's the best deal in the 20k (USD, obviously) and below range for something with AWD?

I was thinking 2009 Ford Escape, if some serious rebate action opens up on that.
Otherwise the 2009 Vibe AWD looks good.

It has to be one of these makes (for warranty validity purposes on cross border sales):

- Ford
- GM
- Toyota
- Mazda
- VW
- Volvo
- Infiniti

Obviously I don't expect to find any $20K or below deals on a volvo or infiniti, but if you guys have seen any smoking deals on something form one of the above manufactures, I would appreciate the heads up!

I was also looking, and it seems like the Vue is on a pretty good discount, but its going to be well over $20K still for a decent unit.

$20K is about the price ceiling I am looking at.

kyfdx · August 2008

I'd go for the Vibe or the Matrix...

graphicguy · August 2008

I'd go for the Vibe or the Matrix...

I'd second that. Probably go with the Vibe for no other reason than it's a clone of the Matrix and GM is offering employee pricing on it.

jchan2 · August 2008

Do Nissan warranties not cross the border? I would imagine that if Infiniti warranties do then Nissan's will too.

I'd suggest another RAV4, perhaps? Or what about the Nissan Rogue (if the Nissan warranties cross the border)

I'd also second the Vibe/Matrix recommendation as well.

dtownfb · August 2008

If you are looking for a minivan, you should consider the Nissan Quest. The Quest board is reporting ridiculously low prices for the base and S models. Over $10k discounts.

imariquinn · August 2008

Not just the Quest (minivan), but the 2008 and 2008.5 TITAN, FRONTIERS, ARMADAS and PATHFINDERS are at least 10000 off MSRP, some are close to 40% off MSRP.

Some dealers are willing to deal, others are not. Find a dealer who has lots of inventory and start emailing them for OTD offers. Use the Edmunds TMV to find out the MSRPs with the options you want.

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