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  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Say you're number 1. You have more than 50% of the market.

    1. Get complacent. Save money by reusing the same old technologies.

    2. Give the unions all they ask for. Don't push back, you can afford it. You're number 1.

    3. Get conservative in your styling. It's selling, right?

    4. Raise profits even higher by saving money on interiors, switchgear. Squeeze your suppliers.

    5. If big SUVs are selling well, focus on those. The car market doesn't make much money. Don't upgrade the cars, it's too hard to compete. Make more big vehicles. Make big profits.

    6. Don't waste time on new technologies. Let somebody else play with that hybrid crap.

    7. If market share begins to falter, chase trends. If somebody else comes out with retro designs, do it too. Just wait a few years to make sure the concept sells well. Then take a few more years to design and put out the product.

    8. If sales are falling and Wall Street is worried, tell them your next models are going to be home runs. If those models end up striking out, then the next models will be home runs.

    9. Have a lot of divisions. Spend your money here. Don't waste it on new technologies or quality interiors. Use the same old hardware, put lots of different bodies and taillights on the same engines and frames. It's more efficient that way.

    10. Buy some foreign brands. This adds to your divisions. Slowly shut down their designs. Rebadge your own hardware in these new divisions.

    11. If sales continue to fall, your PR department knows that the next models will be the big home runs.

    12. If other companies are successful with hybrids, react quickly (see "chase market trends"). Find the cheapest way possible to create your own hybrids. Put a battery charger on a truck and call it a hybrid. Put a big generator on a small SUV and call it a hybrid.

    13. If your sales continue to fall, make sure everybody knows that the new models coming out next year are going to be home runs.

    14. Keep the factories busy. Sell lots of cheap cars to fleets.

    15. If sales continue to fall, discount your product. Make sure you maintain some market share by adding rebates.

    16. Make sure advertising appeals to the construction worker, the midwest patriot. Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick? It's the Heartbeat of America.

    17. If sales continue to fall, remember that the next new models are going to reverse the trend.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    SAAB was bought for their turbo engine technology, is what I heard. Hummmmm? Honda Civic has 197HP without a turbo out of a four banger. Who needs, or wants turbo. I don't. The car itself may be good. Never drove one, nor considered one. Don't think too many people even place this SAAB on the list to try out.

    Come to think of it, I don't see as many new Volvos around the area here. Poor ol' Ford. They improved the Jaguar and they are selling less. They bought Volvo, and I think it is not profitable, though I may be wrong. Buying SAAB seemed like a strange move. Only buying into Fiat would seem stranger. I guess Yugo is no longer available to buy.

    Loren
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    18. Continue to reward top executives regardless of performace since "cutting executive pay could trigger a talent drain at a time when the automaker needs to marshal all of its resources."

    PS: I did not make this up. These are the exact words from GM vice chairman minimum Bob.
  • gteegtee Member Posts: 179
    You are right in every thing you say. What I don't understand is why we American consumers should continue to purchase Domestic cars. There are just so many better alternatives on the market. This whole domestic car issue is beginning to sound like a soap opera.
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    There was a time when this platform sold more than 30,000 units a month of Devilles, LeSabres, Bonnevilles, Park Avenues and Auroras. The DeVille itself was easily touching 10,000 units a month and the LeSabre reached 15,000 units at some point. Now it's only the DTS, slightly above 5,000 units a month, and the Lucerne, yet to see how it will do. So for sure this platform is not as profitable as it used to be. If it can't make it above 10,000 units a month, it might as well get discounnected. The Sigma platforms sells better than that.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    The good news for GM is that Fiat (despite the previous bad news) is recovering.

    So it's possible for a company to dominate its home market, become complacent, get slaughtered by an influx of imports, but shrink and focus and finally project a profitable year.

    For those who don't know, Italy's market was protected by the government until recently due to EU regulations. The unions had it good, Fiat had it good... everyone had it good except the consumers. From what friends there tell me, they wavered before defecting to foreign brands, but Fiat had fallen so far that buying Italian was just too much of a personal sacrifice. Fiat was months away from bankruptcy before GM gave it a lifeline, which they used mainly on one single core product, the new Punto. It's a hit. The new Panda (low end volume car) came out a year or two ago and they did a good job with it too. Somehow they've managed effective alliances with a couple of companies that have led to a good product or two.

    The fun stuff like the Barchetta haven't been changed for years, so they're old and outdated, and they won't be touched until the important stuff is taken care of. It took a lot of sacrifice, because they had so little time for the turnaround, but it's working out. But even if they make great products, they're not going to grow much in the next decade or two. It's too late to change that.

    GM's management seems to be way too optimistic to go into crisis mode anytime soon, and that scares me.
  • ford4lifeford4life Member Posts: 6
    have any seen the new 2007 Tahoe ??? n if u have wat do u think??? i saw them today and honestly i wasnt impressed. and im a big GM fan.. n i wasnt impressed one bit. :(
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Merc needs .9L more displacement to produce the same output as Lexus. Did the germans outsource those vaunted pushrod engines from GM for the S by any chance?

    I hope you aren't serious. The only outsourcing that was done was by Lexus for their styling for the last 15 or so years!

    M
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    And those billions GM gave it didn't hurt either, now did it ;)

    And how is Fiat's good fortune good for GM :confuse:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    > I though it was very telling when Bob Lutz(head of the GM "house without style") said publicly that neither he or any GM managers should take a pay cut. His logic was it takes high price talent to pull a company out of a tail spin.

    Maybe he thinks only those who caused a problem know how to unravel it?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Lutz was hired to fix the problem. The current problems at GM were caused by whoever prior to Lutz. A number of pre-Lutz management have left. I am not saying that Lutz is making a postive difference, but he did the Solstice, not a bad vehicle. The Lacrosse, Lucerne, DTS, etc. are not pure Lutz creations although he did have a major impact on the final production version.
  • veligerveliger Member Posts: 30
    The styling is astonishing, both in and out, there's a choice of a 192HP Hybrid or a 268HP!!! V6 with a SIX speed auto, and lots of other goodies.

    How long have you worked for Toyota??

    The words "Astonishing" and "Toyota Styling" have never been mentioned in the same sentence before you just posted them. The new Camry looks a lot better than the last one, but it's still bland, derivative and ordinary. It is sure to remain a favorite for elderly women, chunky forty-something single mom's and rental car companies everywhere. ;)
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    As I see it, the Lucerne and DTS are the same car/platform with different styling. The platform is the old Aurora or G-body with some upgrades and is a very modern stiff stucture. To sell much over 100,000 units, more than one division needs to sell this platform I think. Putting the Lucerne and DTS into production did not require much in the way of development costs as the platform is 10 years old. Some enhancement of the platform has been done, and styling the new bodies required some expenditures, but the overall cost of putting them into production is not high. This gives them a few years to develop the RWD platform, which was the aborted Zeta platform. Now, if the Zeta moves forward, it will probably be for the GTO, Camaro and midsize sedan platform. A large sedan platform will need to be developed in addition.

    A RWD DTS_deVille platform will differ from the STS in that it will have a larger rear seat area. The STS does not have a lot of rear seat legroom, as is the case with most sport sedans. I don't know that the sigma platform is designed to be larger than the STS. One thing for sure is that the sigma factory is designed to produce about 150,000 units annually. Currently the CTS+STS+SRX production is more than 100,000. Adding a DTS to this would limit production to a much smaller number than the current sales rate is.
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    Lutz's finger prints are all over the GTO, the go-fast Pontiac that don't sell. He also must have had his hand in the bland new Impala,the G6,Cobalt,the new Buicks,and the over hyped re-do of the full sized SUV's and trucks. None of these count as "home runs" by any measure. He's paid a salary that assumes he'll hit home runs.He's hasn't. Maybe he's over the hill and his ego won't acknowlege this , or maybe the GM corporate structure broke him down? Either way, he has not produced the hits. Bill C.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    Is the Lucerne on the G (H) platform? Who can link to somewhere that's shown.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,282
    I'm not a Toyota guy. I've never owned one and don't work for them but that new Camry is a good looking car! With trim levels and drivetrain configurations, the G6/Impala/Lacrose/Malibu (what else) will not be able to compete with that. The Camry is a home run. Lutz's creations are not. The Camry is the type of mass market car that would get GM buzz again.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The 2007 Camry interior looks good, but the exterior reminds me of an Avalon with an ugly front end? Did Toyota steal the design for a mid-90s Sonata?
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    You are kidding? The H platform died with the 1999 model year. The 2000 model year saw the Bonneville, DeVille and LeSabre move to the Aurora (G) platform. There were three basic wheelbases, but one platform. The G platform is a version of the older K platform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_K_platform
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    on the platforms: http://www.gminsidenews.com/index.php?page=platform
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    veliger: The new Camry looks a lot better than the last one, but it's still bland, derivative and ordinary. It is sure to remain a favorite for elderly women, chunky forty-something single mom's and rental car companies everywhere.

    A GM dealer criticizing the Toyota Camry for being dull, appealing to unglamorous customers and relying too much on rental car companies to boost sales?

    What's next?

    Jennifer Lopez criticizing someone for marrying too often?

    Hugh Hefner criticizing someone for being too promiscuous?

    Donald Trump criticizing someone for a lack of humility?

    The mind reels at the mere thought...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >You are kidding? The H platform died with the 1999 model year.

    Not sure about the 'kidding,' but here is the reason I was confused about 2000+ being an "H" designation...

    http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=&Mfg=GMC&Make=BUI&Model=LESA&Year=2- 003&Category=&Keyword=&Module=&mscsid=LA6FD881X0S49KFMNC66HGFD5UAV5D3D

    In the first item for purchase if says
    "2003 Buick Lesabre Hb-Platform Service Manual
    Price: $135.00 In Stock
    (English, Paper, GMP03HB)"

    Note the 'Hb.' The Bonneville carries 'Hp'; DTS, KS; STS, AS.

    Thanks for explaining.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    How long have you worked for Toyota??

    I WISH I worked for Toyota. Not too many companies are as well managed as Toyota, very few are as innovative, and even fewer are actually bringing jobs to the U.S.

    I'm stuck in an (unnamed) American corporation that thrives on layoffs, outsourcing, undeserved executive bonuses, poor employee morale, and ever escalating management stupidity.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I'm stuck in an (unnamed) American corporation that thrives on layoffs, outsourcing, undeserved executive bonuses, poor employee morale, and ever escalating management stupidity.

    Sounds like Rome is burning
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    The 1995-1996 was the best looking Camry. The 1997-2001 was bland and inoffensive looking. The 02-06 was just a styling mess. The new one it just doesn't match up well: the front end looks like a Mazda 6 and the back end looks like the current ES300/ES330. I admit Toyota offers a good packaged car but their styling aside from the 1997 4 Runner, 98-99 Avalon, 2000 Celica or 2001 RAV 4 hasn't done anything for me. The TC has gotten its share of younger buyers but is it going to be enough to stop its high average age buyer? I don't know about that.
  • baltomanbaltoman Member Posts: 43
    For me the biggest issue with Toyota styling, including the new Camry, is that many Toyota models are starting to look alike. The styling even crosses over into the Lexus line
    at the (for Lexus) lower end.

    I like cars and I know cars. And when a 20K car and a 50K car look so similar you have to look at the name plate, it quickly loses my interest. The Asian brands are too generic for my taste.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Hondas are going to look more and more like Acuras. I saw a sneak peek at the next Accord. Aside from an inexplicably busy grille, the car looks very much like a current Acura. Good for Honda, bad for Acura.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "For me the biggest issue with Toyota styling, including the new Camry, is that many Toyota models are starting to look alike."

    I haven't liked Toyota's styling theme since the 02 Camry. Toyota's looked ok in the 90's.

    "I like cars and I know cars. And when a 20K car and a 50K car look so similar you have to look at the name plate, it quickly loses my interest.I like cars and I know cars. And when a 20K car and a 50K car look so similar you have to look at the name plate, it quickly loses my interest.

    What 50K car looks like a 20K car?

    "The Asian brands are too generic for my taste."

    What so you mean generic? The Mazda 6 is generic? The RX-8? The Altima? The TL? Maybe in the 1980's I could agree with you but not now. I don't think the Domestics are much better at styling cars better than the Japanese. Even the new Civic Coupe blows away any domestic compact in terms of looks. VW/Audi once had an edge 5 years ago on the rest of the industry but since their cars have blown up size with the new generation Passat and Jetta they don't look as sharp as they used too.

    Look at the Domestics cars and their styling since the early 90's between Pontiac's overstyling and Ford use of too many oval shapes of their cars in the late 90's their styling was not much better than the Japanese in the 90's. Only Chrysler styled the only good looking domestic cars in the 90's. Mazda for a Japanese brand had good styled cars back in the 90's with the Millenia and 93-97 MX-3. Honda/Acura had the Legend and the Integra back in the 90's. Mitsubishi had the Diamante and the Eclipse back in the 90's. I don't get why people say Asian brands are generic. The only desireable domestic brand for me is Chrysler and Ford is getting there but has more work to do in my opinion. GM=they ain;t worth my time for the most part but there are exceptions. I wouldn't have even looked at a Ford in the 90's except the 94-98 Mustang.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Hondas are going to look more and more like Acuras. I saw a sneak peek at the next Accord. Aside from an inexplicably busy grille, the car looks very much like a current Acura. Good for Honda, bad for Acura."

    Honda's have looked like Acura's forever not started to look like. GM does a worse thing and rebadges the same car 2 times over.
  • gteegtee Member Posts: 179
    I'm stuck in an (unnamed) American corporation that thrives on layoffs, outsourcing, undeserved executive bonuses, poor employee morale, and ever escalating management stupidity.

    It sounds like you work for GM :P
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    Well the one thing that I will say about the Asians (and even the European makes) is although they may have bland styling, at least they don't have many truly ugly cars. Vehicles like the Buick LaCrosse, Pontiac Aztek, Ford Taurus and many other duds are something that the neighborhood dogs bark at when they drive by.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I understand your confusion. You are a long time poster here, and GM bodies have been discussed extensively before. I have never liked the letter designations though, as they only group a set of cars together and do not identify a platform. So I have always said the Aurora platform when I was discussing the 1995 FWD platform used for the 95 Aurora and Riviera. In 1997 the Buick Park Avenue was moved to this platform with some upgrades. In 1998 the Seville moved onto this platform with a shorter wheelbase. I think that the Seville was also upgraded from the Park Avenue version. In 2000 the Bonneville and LeSabre was moved onto the same wheelbase as the Seville, but I think that they got a lighter weight version of the platform. The 2000 Deville got a longer wheelbase version and was probably similar to the Seville for refinement.

    So, what I am getting at is that the 95 Aurora platform was developed into 3 distinct grades of refinement. I think the old B & C body names were GM's way of lumping similar body designs into a set of manuals for repair purposes. However, the letters do not mean much regarding a platform. The Park Avenue up to 1985 was RWD, from 1985 to 1990 it was a first generation FWD platform. In 1991 the Park Avenue was restyled and I think the platform was upgraded some. From 1997 forward, the Park Avenue was on the 95 Aurora platform. I do not know if any of these platforms had a name other than C-body and then G-body.
  • baltomanbaltoman Member Posts: 43
    What so you mean generic?

    I'm not sure that is a complete sentence, but we'll leave that issue for another forum.

    What I mean by generic was probably best expressed by my business friend who said:
    "They all look like jelly beans. You can have cheap little jelly beans. Or big expensive jelly beans. But they look like jelly beans. Boring".

    If you like the repetitive jelly bean look of Toyota products, then that is your privilege. Certainly there are some worse looking cars. And certainly some better.

    Jelly beans are fine - but not for my personal vehicle.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Well the one thing that I will say about the Asians (and even the European makes) is although they may have bland styling, at least they don't have many truly ugly cars.

    Huh?

    Honda Ridgeline. Honda Element. Toyota Yaris. Toyota Echo. Toyota LandCruiser. The Scion XB. This forthcoming Toyota FJ thing. Nissan 350Z. Nissan Versa. Fiat Multipla. Almost every one of the Kei cars deemed even by the Japanese too ugly to export to the US. Renault Megane. That square Benz truck that Dodge imports as a Swift. The Bangle Butt BMW 7 and 5 Series.

    These are all butt ugly cars. And this is only off the top of my head.
  • martianmartian Member Posts: 220
    a pretty good looking car! By then end of the line (2004) they had gotten pretty much all of the bugs out, and the version with the 3.5 liter engine was quite reliable.
    Again, the shame of GM-just when they get a product right, they kill the line. I was looking for a late-model Aurora, ans they were hard to find..imagine how much money GM would have saved if they just kept the Aurora going as a Buick! :blush:
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    I've never owned one and don't work for them but that new Camry is a good looking car!

    Agreed. Avalon and Prius look good also as do many Lexi.

    Last Aurora was nice looking. Too bad it could not have been saved and then evolved, if not Olds name, in some other GM division.

    GM is doing better than in recent past and has some nice styled cars, but still too many such as Malibu, Monte Carlo, Aveo, Lucerne, Grand Prix, GTO, that are not.

    Ford, Chrysler and GM do have a number of cars with good styling. Europeans, such as Audi and VW, are going backwards in styling. As example, latest issue of Automobile has picture of Audi A8, with drooping mouth tongue-out front end with heavy vertical bars. Not much they could add to add more grossness except perhaps mount a set of steer horns on front of hood. Maybe Audi thinks that ugly is in and "bland" and "elegance" are passe. Another example of gross is big Mercedes S sedan with dramatized front and rear fender lines, kind of like a Mitsubishi SUV.
  • squeaksqueak Member Posts: 1
    I doubt it! The quality is not getting better.Another thing,i was comparing the silverado and f150 on edmunds, and ford rated and tested better and i dont see where gm is slashing sticker prices??? Anyone have more info on the price slashing,atleast on the trucks.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Well, the RX-8 and Mini aren't jellybeans, nosiree. It's definately possible if you have the desire and get the hell out of the way of the artists and designers and let them do what they fell is best.

    The FJ is a great example - virutally identical to the concept model. Toyota has a Wrangler and Xterra killer on its hands. The RX-8 is, well, it's a $30K car for $25K if you haggle that blows away most of the competition in driving and looks. And, no, it's not a true sportscar like the 350Z, despite its looks. It's a coupe looking sports sedan that does 90% of that the Z does. Heh.

    So there are good examples.

    The easy way to pick a winner? If it can be rented, pass on it. Every last car built for fleets is a compromise-designed jellybean. Just say no to fleet models and you'll be fine.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,282
    "the shame of GM-just when they get a product right, they kill the line"

    The shame of it is that they put cars out thinking that they've got a couple of years to get it right.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    "And how is Fiat's good fortune good for GM"

    That basically, it's possible for a company to run itself into the ground in its home market, but save itself before dying completely.
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    Lutz's finger prints are all over the GTO
    Slapping Grand Am front-end on Holden Murano was Bob's brilliant idea. It single handedly kick started neo-muscle car resurgence of 00s;)
  • kodenamekodename Member Posts: 141
    "It single handedly kick started neo-muscle car resurgence of 00s;)"

    HUH?...the GTO?...Not even close.(maybe your joking?)

    With January and February traditionally slow sales months, it seems like GM is going way overboard advertising on prime time TV. Tonight (Sunday) it seemed like all the major networks were airing those "Chevy sells more cars than any other brand" ads, along with the "we've lowered prices on all our models" ads. Is that a wise choice of spending ad dollars? I'm asking because who else runs an extensive ad program during what is actually the slowest time of the year? If results are what counts(we all know they are) I guess the January-February sales figures will tell the tale. Bill C.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yeah, I know. Funny how the GTO is not a bad car, yet it meet a certain fate the way it was introduced. Why did they not drop one of the loser divisions, and add Holdens as imports, perhaps sold through Saturn. Yeah, no Pontiac nose required. And no, the GTO was not an Australian car. The car is OK, but not the nameplate and marketing ( price ). The Corvette engine belongs on Corvettes. A good Holden selling with a V8 at under $30K, as an import may be a good thing. Should be sold alongside the Opel line.

    A muscles car is more like the Mustang, which is to cram a large engine in an existing car, and add some sporty theme to it. The Holden car won't sell well in the $35K plus range, as there are too many others to choose from.

    Maybe Mr. Lutz should have re-introduced the 2000 Camaro SS. Now that is a muscular car. Maybe Bob will do something brilliant and amaze one and all ! Is he suppose to be that good? Taking GM designs out of the doldrums is a rather lofty task indeed. How long has the old boy been at GM during this latest effort with this company?

    Loren
  • sensaisensai Member Posts: 129
    The Corvette engine belongs on Corvettes. A good Holden selling with a V8 at under $30K, as an import may be a good thing.

    Wait, so getting a 400hp Corvette engine on the current GTO/Holden for just over 30k is a bad thing :confuse:
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    Maybe Bob will do something brilliant and amaze one and all !
    If Bob resigns before getting fired will amaze us all.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The muscle cars of the early 60's started with the GTO, which was then a midsize car with a performance tuned full sized car engine. The Mustang was Ford's idea for a cheap coupe with flashy styling. It was not a Muscle car, but did offer a small V8 as an option. I do not recall if the big V8 was an option on the first Mustang's or not. GM introduced the Firebird and Camaro to compete with the Mustang and they were similar cars with a six standard and a small V8 optional. I think that they probably started the big V8 option.

    The current GTO is a basic Holden product as sold in Australia, including the "Corvette" engine. The Monaro's changes to make it a GTO are the Pontiac grill and other modifications to meet US standards. The Corvette engine was already standard.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Not quite. The Holden Monaro comes with the 5.7L LS1 from the late Camaro as the top-end optional engine (thus the 2004 GTO also had it). The 2005 GTO got the Corvette's 6.0L LS2 to boost sales, but if you want the LS2 in Australia you have to go to HSV (Holden Special Vehicles- a semi-affiliated performance house, sorta like AMG before MB took them in).
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    Early Mustangs had a 260 or 265 v8. Then 1967 had a 289 v8 and in that period a Shelby version had larger motors and were available in limited quantities. Then it was off the races. The Camaroes in 1968 had a 350 cu in motor.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    While the tuning may be slightly different, the 5.7 Holden engine is very similar to the Corvette V8. It is true that Holden is still using the 5.7 instead of the 6.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The early Mustangs had only a small block V8. I think that the Camaro also started with a small block V8 as an option. At some point the big block V8s were available.

    Someone has dropped a V8 into the Solstice.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    For 64-64 the 260 was the Mustang's 8 and a six was available. In 66 the 289 was offered. In 1967 the 390 was available. In 1968 the 428 was available and in 1969 the Boss 429 was available.

    For the Camaro 1967 was the first year with the largest motor the 396 and the 302 was in a Z-28. In 1969 the 425 was available in certain versions.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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