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Comments
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Audis also FWD/AWD transferse platforms, and nobody seems to mind?
You're only half wrong. They are FWD/AWD but the engine is actually mounted longitudinally, not transversely (which causes its own set of problems but helps with front/rear weight distribution).
And Audi sends torque to the rear and to all 4 wheels most of the time as opposed to the current Ford system that sends power to the front most of the time.
I expect Lincolns new vehicles to behave much like Audi and that's a good thing.
I'm talking dollars not Euros. BTW, the $31K 125 is E33K which translates to over $48K so at that price it's not really going to be an economy model.
My Nephew has informed me that no Bimmer one series is FWD.
And this is important why? I think we all know none of the current BMW's are FWD.
BMW's main reason for adding FWD models is volume based. The EU is imposing stricter emission standards. Without low emission, high volume product to offset their larger vehicles, they wouldn't be able to compete.
The Ford Modeo's British price is north of 26K LBs.
Actually the Mondeo runs from UK18K to UK30.5K. Again I don't see how the price of a Mondeo in the UK will affect the price of a FWD BMW in the US.
You really believe that a Mini Cooper is a better handler than a BMW 750il?
Yes I do.
That's exactly what I meant - they send power to the rear all the time as opposed to the current Ford system that only sends power to the rear when it senses or anticipates wheelspin. I didn't mean that Audi sends ALL of the power to the rear - that would negate AWD.
The Ford system is an in-house design that replaced the old Haldex based Volvo system. Ford's system allows the torque to be split electronically instead of being controlled by a mechanical clutch, therefore Ford can send (reportedly) up to 97% of the torque to the rear with a software command.
I have no idea what your rant about pricing and company names was about.
That's not a problem on mid-size and larger vehicles. The problem is how to get the power from the rear of the engine to the front wheels. It causes problems in packaging and front clip design. Audi has done extensive engineering to get around the problem.
With a proper balanced AWD system the only detriment to a transverse engine is weight distribution. AWD eliminates torque steer.
Who knows? Lincoln could still rise (but not with heavily revised current models only). The MKZ sounds like a clean sheet design. There is the proposed Lincoln Escape-based model, which if done well, could outsell the Cadillac SRX (as good as its sales have been, it has design problems that will only become more apparent with time). But nothing else new is proposed for the next year or two.
Meanwhile, Chrysler has doubled it sales (and all four Chrysler Group brands are up), Mercedes, Volkswagen and Audi sales continue to increase, and plebeian companies like Hyundai are horning in on the limited near luxury and luxury markets...plus all cars are just getting better, year by year.
Ford doesn't have to fix Lincoln overnight because the mainstream brand is very profitable.
They start by taking the current platforms and giving them 100% unique sheetmetal so they won't be mistaken for a Ford; give them unique powertrains and luxury features to compete with the other luxury brands. Use AWD and ecoboost for high performance. And extend this to multiple vehicles (7).
Once they do that AND they've improved the dealership experience AND they've had time to sort out their global RWD vehicles, I believe you'll see some RWD lincoln performance vehicles.
There are rumblings of a mustang and/or Falcon based RWD vehicle being available soon along with some type of hybrid performance model but no confirmation yet.
This is a long term rebuilding plan as opposed to a quick fix. The MKZ will be the best indication of the future direction.
The MKS is a lame duck. The D4 car platform (including Taurus) is supposed to be replaced by a longer, possibly wider large car platform built off CD4 (MKZ, Fusion). D4 will most likely stay for CUVs only.
Patience.
My understanding is that BMW is going to really muddy the waters. In 2014, they will introduce the 1 series GT - a FWD five door crossover/coupe in the same vein as the 5 series GT. The current RWD 2 door coupe and convertible will carry one as part of the 1 series. IIRC, the long term plan is to have a full line of FWD/X Drive 1 series with the RWD becoming the 2 series.
What problems are those??
IMHO, the new Escape/Kuga would be too small to compete against the SRX. What Lincoln needs is a better MKX to compete with Cadillac.
The most important thing in this segment for most buyers is styling. Cadillac is kicking it with art & science.
“He is pushing them in a totally different direction,” said Rebecca Lindland, an analyst with the research firm IHS Automotive, who got a sneak preview. “I almost fell over when I saw it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/02/business/ford-seeks-to-glamorize-lincoln-vehic- les.html?_r=3&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1322800312-GSNxz5G7sd8O7DSUKSm5ug&pagewanted=- all
Lexus survives on ES and RX sales - not LS or GS sales.
I think Lincoln does deserve and will eventually get a RWD platform - but they don't need one to turn the brand around and be a solid player in the luxury game.
E.g. - what if the new MKZ comes with AWD with a more constant rear torque split and 400 hp with electronic suspension control, a retractable glass roof and all the new doo-dads PLUS drop-dead styling? Are you going to say it can't be successful because it shares a platform?
LS, GS and IS sales are very small by comparison.
And what makes a platform? In the case of the MKZ the only thing it ends up sharing with the Fusion and Mondeo may be the floor pan.
BTW, there is no conceptual difference between Buick (or Ford) having three sizes of sedans (Lacrosse, Regal, Verano), and Mercedes, BMW and Audi having three sizes. Buick of course is not in their league...more like Acura or Chrysler (which is missing a credible compact). Even though Lincoln only has a midsize (MKZ) and "full-size" (barely...MKS), they likely need a sedan above the MKS in size and price to complete their sedan line. It would be a long time, if ever, for the marketplace to accept the Audi formula in the Lincoln line. Cadillac is heading in that direction though, with the forthcoming ATS to be added in below the CTS.
The Kuga platform could potentially provide Lincoln with a vehicle that might compete better with the SRX than the MKX does. The SRX is narrower than the MKX, and it does not have impressive interior room, given its dimensions. As for the SRX, it is styled well, but sight lines are pretty bad. A friend of mine was looking to trade his MKX, and test drove the SRX among others. Although he has owned more GM vehicles than anything else, he only drove it a block before knowing it did not have the refined feel he was looking for. He bought an Audi Q5 instead.
Silly Lincoln - how could they possibly be looking for sales?
Listen - I understand what YOU want but Lincoln can't really afford to do a one-off low volume supercar right now. Maybe in 3-4 years when they fix everything else.
Now, as for recent sales, if only in the last 10-12 years they had been fortunate enough to employ anyone with some clout, who actually had a clue where the luxury market was headed...
I think it's going to surprise a lot of people.
Ford has been outselling Chevrolet now for several years, but Chevy still makes huge sales regardless. Camaro continues to outsell Mustang, and the Cruze has managed to find a bigger audience, even though it is not as good as the Focus. Even as Ford is about to introduce a new Fusion, a new, well-reviewed Malibu will be right across the street. Add to that solid growth in Buick, Cadillac and GMC, and GM as it recovers, slowly grows much bigger than FoMoCo. Ford now realizes its biggest threat is not Toyota, but once again, GM. Time has passed and the temporary advantage Ford had by not accepting any bailout becomes overshadowed by such relatively small things as the irritating MyFord Touch, and the jerky Focus dual clutch transmission.
Things change fast in this industry, but a particular make has a long road in a stiff headwind when almost the entire product line must be remade in order to be competitive. Ford needs a profitable, luxury brand for the long haul. They unfortunately went from having way too many to manage well, to having for all intents and purposes none. Lincoln must be re-built, or buy another brand that will fill that role.
Maybe the vaporware period is nearing an end.
Who knows, maybe within 15 years of when the last RWD vehicle was introduced by Lincoln, another will be.
Or not.
I disagree about your denigration of the MyFord/LincolnTouch. I have one in my 2012 Explorer. Sure, it took a couple of days to get used to it, but I'm 58, and did so easily and quickly. Once I did, I find it brilliant, easy to work and so much less irritating than an I-drive like BMW, Acura and now Mercedes is using. No scrolling, all touch screen. Makes me wonder if it's simply beyond the intelligence of the average driver (my bet actually), or if people just don't take the time to familiarize themselves with it's miriad possibilities and features. HVAC and Sound is still operable by buttons on the wheel, as well as the dash. Navigation is accessible through Touch, but it always is, unless you need to scroll and push like Chrysler does, ridiculous. And Bluetooth is amazingly easy to use and program. Easier than any other car I have had, including my Lexus.
Seriously, I don't get it. Or, maybe I do.....
I also put my daughter's entire iTunes library on a 8 gb usb stick with iTunes Export freeware - works great and no need to plug/unplug the iphone.
Of course I noticed the owner's guide in the glovebox had never been opened and I'm sure they didn't spend more than a few minutes trying to figure it out but you can't blame Ford for that.
The new MFT version does seem to be even simpler to use, FWIW.
There's a big difference there - Cadillac took the time to make the SRX look different than the Equinox. Put them side by side and they don't share much in terms of body panels.
The MKX isn't anything more than a rebadge with minor fascia changes. It's more obvious when you walk into a combined Lincoln/Ford dealer.
Why bother? Why not just stream the iPhone over the bluetooth and have the most up to date library?
With this setup she can browse the library just like on the iPod app on the iPhone or use voice control (which is the idea).
Only takes a few minutes to update the usb stick to add a song.
Once again, platforms can be shared between a quality mainstream model and an upscale one, but the MKX shares the entire greenhouse and doors and all dimensions with the Edge. The Edge is a great vehicle, but to have to pay that much more for an Edge with lipstick and pearls doesn't work so well for most folks, as buying an SRX that shares nothing obvious with the Equinox (or 9-4X). This was the same problem with the current MKZ in relation to the Fusion. Had Ford not introduced the very good MKZ Hybrid, MKZ sales would be even worse than they are.
Now, granted, differentiation alone will not result in more success. The Taurus and MKS are differentiated in a myriad of ways. But the MKS is a bland car in a field of very good ones. The Flex and MKT are almost completely differentiated (who would ever think they were related if you didn't know?), but both Ford and Lincoln screwed up with those dumbed down, focused-grouped to death, awkward designs. Which is too bad, because the Flex, especially in Ecoboost trim, is a terrific vehicle. A higher percentage of Flex owners would buy one again than any other large or luxury SUV/CUV.
So no, the SRX is not simply an Equinox with angles. And you hit the nail on the head when you say it is great looking. That alone can sometimes sell a car. In addition, it looks like it is worth what you paid for it. It is not however without faults and Ford could easily benchmark their Lincoln higher than the SRX, but so far, they have not done so. I suspect plans are in the works though. It will probably take two full design turnovers of Lincoln's fleet to bring them back to competitiveness. I am crossing my fingers that the 2013 MKZ will begin to do for Lincoln what the CTS did for Cadillac.
Cost them 4 billion dollars? I sure hope not.
(I kid, I kid)
What I did say, and mean is, that Cadillac, who became pretty competitive with the German Brands by dumping their GM clones and engineering all new platforms with RWD, or AWD with an RWD orientation. Now, they are replacing an ugly (looked like a hearse to me), but well handling RWD SUV with a Chevy based, FWD SUV, offered (once again) in many flavors, and sadly, in Cadillac clothes too. Never said it shared even so much as a windshield with the Equinox, just a platform and power train. I know it's been tweaked, but it's still an Equinox under there, and most customers are fooled into thinking it's as good as the CTS. It's not. Much better looking is all. Yet, nobody talks about it. I think it's a backward step.
The new XTS (?) I get confused.... replaces the DTS, which is old enough to vote, and the STS, a larger CTS and my personal favorite, with another overpowered for FWD land yacht. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE big cars, just not those with Torque steer. Another replacement of a well engineered RWD 7 series competitor (STS) with a Lucerne/DTS redo. Another backward step. I'm surprised, but I guess Lutz being gone is now being felt, although he wasn't the genesis for the CTS design anyway. In fact, he hated the angular look of Cadillac when he took over, but sales converted him, we liked it.
Yes, Cadillac does a better job of disguising their shared platforms than Ford has, at least in the past. I'm just saying that Car & Driver never has a problem with the Chevy underneath. Nobody does. Yet, Ford is continually criticized for the same thing. Nobody seems to mind the Escalade being a Tahoe under there, with a larger engine, a different front clip and taillights.
For decades, it's been ok, since the Oldsmobuicks of the 80s, (which I happened to really like at the time). All I'm saying is Cadillac is moving backwards from their former direction.
Rebuttal (of course)?
But the fact remains that the SRX shares very little with the Equinox (part of the floor pan and other odds and ends) and shares a whole lot more with the Saab, which it does not look like. The Equinox and Terrain share a lot more with one another, even if they have completely different body panels and interiors. Although you don't respect the SRX, and that is fine, it did hit a sweet spot of the market that the MKX has been unable to do. That had nothing to do with Car and Driver's influence, whatever that is. The XTS, styled as it is, and based on the already very successful Lacrosse, is quite likely to sell better than the MKS, even given that you don't want a FWD based AWD car. The XTS will not exhibit torque steer as it will use the same method of eliminating it that GM has introduced to its Buick line. Your criticism of the Escalade is well taken, but let's point out that unlike the Navigator, it does have a more powerful engine than the comparable Chevy, and unlike the Navigator, they did differentiate every single body panel, and differentiated the greenhouse a bit more by giving it unique rear doors from Chevy as well. In any event, that formula worked better than what Lincoln chose to do. Is it enough? Of course not, as Escalade sales have fallen as well...just not as much as the Navigator's.
Given how far GM had fallen, Ford is now acknowledging that they represent a threat, because since their collapse, they have been able to come back with many successful models across their various divisions. In particular, Cadillac although held back somewhat by the unpopularity of the old DTS and STS, offers the CTS family (second gen sedan, wagon and coupe) which is doing well and well-regarded. The upcoming rwd ATS has gotten some preliminary good press, and Cadillac, unlike Lincoln, has already announced that a rwd flagship is coming for sure. XTS is stopgap, but it will also do well with Cadillac's traditional customers who have not all died yet. The Escalade is slated to be replaced with something more relevant soon.
I don't care for Cadillacs myself. I drove the CTS (before buying my Volvo S60) and I didn't particularly like it. But I had to acknowledge I liked it better than the MKZ. I was even interested in the MKZ hybrid (even though it doesn't offer AWD, which was one of my wants), but I couldn't get past the bland exterior and interior.
It is easy to take pot shots at GM, but somehow they have bounced back. Ford had a chance to overtake them, and Ford has now been able to outsell Chevy. Still, Chevy sells a lot of cars. What Ford didn't have and still doesn't have, is a Buick or a Cadillac. Until they get one like one of those (or like Lexus or Audi or Infiniti), sales are not going to continue to grow as they have. When I watch TV, it seems that every other commercial is a Ford commercial right now, and a lot of them are for the F150, still their bread and butter ("Where can I get one of these?").
Over the next year, Cadillac is positioned to compete in the market a bit better, because the CTS family is already here, the ATS and XTS are right around the corner, and a new Escalade, plus at least one more new model will be out in another year. Lincoln will have a new and pretty MKZ, a new small crossover (but not as soon as the MKZ which won't even be here until later next year), some buffed up current models (MKS, MKT, including an Ecoboost Navigator with some minor styling tweaks), and nothing else in that same time. It is way better than what they offer this year, but still does not rise to what Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. already have on hand, and Cadillac will have in about a year's time.
I do wish them well, but if there is still a culture of "it's better to have fewer but profitable sales with ok models, than spend and borrow like a crack whore to get the top of the food chain," the bottom line may continue to look good, but Lincoln won't acquire that je ne sais quoi that makes a car owner proud.
No question, and no argument, Lincoln has been neglected horribly. Bill Ford doesn't, and never liked Lincoln, and let it languish after Nasser was canned. Mulally has realized with the divestiture of everything else Ford had except Ford, they need it, but without the government bailout, he had to manage within his own capital restraints to save the company. But we know all of this.
You're right - Lincoln isn't close to winning me back, and may never do so. Once you've experienced the Lexus feel, it's hard to go back. Plus, as you say, the cache of Lincoln is gone. May be recoverable, we'll see. Cadillac did it, I guess Lincoln could too. Really, all I said is, the SRX is a fraud, not a real Cadillac, to me. But, Cadillac doesn't make a Lexus either, IMO. So no danger of going their either. I had Cadillacs in the past, starting with an 83 Fleetwood, 85 little Fleetwood, 87 Sixty Special, 90 Fleetwood. After so many issues, I tried a 92 Lincoln, and was hooked until 05. Oddly, I still have some feelings for Lincoln and hope for their success. But I don't know if I'll ever own one again.
This the luxury car a Lincoln should be: