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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    ...the guys who took the admittedly provocative and polarizing MKT Concept and turned it into the MKT. In trying to tone the concept down, they ended up with a dowdy station wagon with a controversial grill.

    http://www.conceptcarpictures.org/cars-L/pics/lincoln.mkt.concept.625.jpg
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    For once I agree 100%. Neither one is exciting. Can't wait to see what Max has in store for the other Lincolns.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    MK5, not sure what year that would have been,

    The Mark V way predated the Taurus by 11 years, circa 75. It was a Panther platform, about 22 ft long, and just gorgeous for the day. A true luxury car, Eldorado competition, soft, cushy, opulent, square but with a forward stance. 460 V8, 7 mpg, miserable acceleration - but enviable at any setting or event. :shades:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    There were no Mark models that shared anything with the Taurus. The 1988-94 Continental was based on the Taurus, but shared no interior or exterior styling with the Ford. It was noticeably roomier than the Taurus as well. The 1995-2002 Continental was also based on Taurus architecture, but with a slightly different wheelbase, more interior room, and huge front and rear overhangs.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,311
    edited January 2013
    I've driven and ridden in a '96 Continental, and I like it. It's not a Lexus LS or Mercedes E-Class, to be sure, but it's nice nonetheless. I'd take one over, say, a Cadillac DeVille or STS, or a Buick Park Avenue.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Not that there is anything wrong with your assessment, but if more people had agreed with you, the car would not have been discontinued in 2002 with no replacement.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,311
    Yeah, true. I knew mine was a minority view. In one way cars are like people. You may like someone that most people don't, or dislike a popular person.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    You could argue the LS was the Continental replacement. Although the Continental/Town Car crowd hated the LS with its firm bucket seats and smaller interior.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    edited January 2013
    The LS was out more than 2 years before the Continental was killed. It was the "small" Lincoln. The Continental was the "middle size" Lincoln, kind of like the STS was for Cadillac. The STS lasted longer, but that genre of car (too big to be a sports sedan but too small to appeal as much to the Town Car/DTS crowd) withered away as tastes changed. Still, the Continental was a success for Lincoln for a long time. Had they updated it with the times, it might still be for sale. I suppose one could argue that the MKS is the new Continental. However, it is too tall and not stylish enough to carry that water.
  • keystonecarfankeystonecarfan Posts: 181
    edited January 2013
    The Mark V was built on the old full-size platform. Lincoln didn't switch to the Panther platform for the Marks (the Mark VI) and the "standard" Continental Town Car/Coupe until the 1980 model year.
  • It's not only too tall, it's also too narrow. The taillights and trunk lid design accentuate these traits. If the next MKS is as big an improvement over the current one as the 2013 MKZ is over its predecessor, Lincoln will have a winner. Until then, I'll definitely pass on the MKS.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,198
    I thought the LS bore too much resemblance to a contemporary Mitsubishi and the "LS" moniker a rip-off of Lexus.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    edited January 2013
    Actually, the MKS is wider than the 2002 Continental, which did not seem narrow at all. It was a big car, even then. The other weird thing...cars are often able to carve out more legroom by being taller (explains why subcompacts are often so tall), like the MKS. However, the 2000 era Continental was shorter in height than not only the MKS--by a lot--but also 2 inches shorter than the 2013 MKZ! Not as wide either.

    So the 2000 era Continental was not a bulky block of a vehicle, even if it did have enormous overhangs--that contributed nothing to interior room. Still, it had way more interior room, and more rear legroom on a significantly shorter wheelbase than either the MKS or new MKZ. Somehow Lincoln has lost track of how to style a luxury sedan that doesn't look like a block, and at the same time make it really roomy. What is up with that?
  • toomanyfumestoomanyfumes S.E. Wisconsin Posts: 904
    I've noticed the resemblance of the LS to Mitsubishi Galants and Diamanté also. While not striking, I thought the LS was a clean design that has held up well. My '05 with the '06 sport wheels and metallic red paint was a sharp car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The 1995-2002 Continental was also based on Taurus architecture, but with a slightly different wheelbase, more interior room,

    Au Contrare, Gregg: Having owned both, you are incorrect on the interior room - the 2005 on Continental was much smaller inside than the previous model, particulary in the rear seat. It was ultra tech and ultra luxury, ultra powerful with the In Tech V8, but all the room went into the trunk, not the cabin. The limosine roofline the pre 95 had, was gone, and so was the headroom and legroom.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    I'm not saying the 1995 did not give up rear legroom, compared to the 1994. What I was saying is that if you chopped off the ridiculous overhangs that were the style then, this Continental car with a wheelbase of 109 inches offered more interior room (with a lower roof and less width) than the 2013 MKZ does with a wheelbase of over 112".

    I hate that Ford has forgotten how to carve out interior room. This is a usual complaint about the subcompact class Fiesta, the compact class Focus, the midsize Fusion and MKZ, and the "large" class MKS. It is not as if the styling is so cool and so far better than rivals that making the interiors smaller is worth it (like with the Aston Martin Rapide, to use an extreme example).
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    What do all those cars have in common? European platforms. Rumor is CD4 (Fusion/MKZ/Mondeo) is based mostly on the old EUCD Mondeo platform.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,254
    I hate that Ford has forgotten how to carve out interior room

    That is a major complaint I have with Ford products. The new Explorer is atrocious for it's size and the Taurus is just plain pathetic in the interior dimensions and room aspect. I think this is one area where they could learn from GM. Sit in a traverse and then an Explorer. Heck, even Toyota trumps the Explorer big time in this area.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    Explorer, Taurus, Flex, MKT and MKS are all derived from a Volvo platform and all suffer the same problems with interior room and a very high beltline. The next generation should fix that when they all switch to a CD4 variant (2013 Fusion/Mondeo/MKZ).
  • e_net_ridere_net_rider Posts: 1,380
    The LS is still a bit of a head turner. As to resemblance's, there are only so many ways you can build a vehicle without breaking the rules necessary for a quality vehicle. If oil prices go high and stay long enough to support major body changes, you will see everything go aerodynamic. As it is, prices shoot high and most people start dumping trucks/large SUV for small fuel efficient. Fuel prices drop and they get tired of riding in a sardine can, they start buying bigger vehicles. Because of lag to change production, about half the time it seems what is on the lot is out of sync with what buyer's want.
    Even luxury cars are effected. Some buyer's can afford anything, including $10 gas, but that is a very limited market, and about half of them want to stay with the style. Hence such horrible creations as a Cadillac Cimaron (Chevy Citation) and a Lincoln that was on a Ford Granada.
    I personally look at TCO, total cost of ownership, when making a purchase. Insurance is one variable that should be looked at closely. Surprisingly, the insurance for a new 11 Lacrosse loaded was no more than what it was for an 09 Malibu LT2. I was told the main reason was safety. Yet I pay a little more for a year older 10 MKS, mostly base.
    I certainly have not popped those chrome strips on the roof, but they do break the roof lines. Somehow GM found a way to get rid of those trim pieces on Lacrosse, maybe better welding. That narrow channel existed, but it's paint was a flawless as any smooth surface.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,198
    You mean the Versailles?

    image
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    edited February 2013
    Lincoln sold less than 4,200 cars in January. Even Volvo outsold Lincoln again.

    Most dealers are still waiting for the "2013" MKZ. There is no rhyme or reason for not calling it a 2014, and skipping the 2013 model year...except it is too late to do that now. From here though, there is no way but up (or out).

    And here comes an explanation from the Detroit News:

    "Lincoln sold 453 MKZs, down 73 percent compared to last January. Ken Czubay, Ford vice president, U.S. marketing, sales and service, said Ford is taking extra time to comb over all-new MKZ sedans, the first of four all-new products for Lincoln over the next four years. As a result, Lincoln will not have a full-stock of MKZ sedans until early April."

    Just wow.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    At least the Versailles got its own roof line after the first year or two.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    It was based on the Granada, which I believe was based on the Maverick frame, but it was luxurious and looked like a lincoln, at least in the front. I sort of liked 'em anyway.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,106
    I think if we could somehow erase the Granada and Monarch from our collective memory, that Versailles would be much better remembered today. I think it's actually a nice looking car, especially in that color scheme. But, the second you park a Granada next to it, it's so blatantly obvious that they're the same car.

    I feel the same way about the Zephyr, or Mark Z, or whatever they call it these days. It actually looks nice, but the second you see a Fusion, the magic is gone.

    Oh, and I know this is gonna date me, but I caught a Lincoln commercial on tv last nite, one where a black early 90's Town Car is driving across the desert plain, gets hit with a cgi fireball, and emerges as some new Lincoln. I made a comment about how that's exactly what's wrong with Lincoln...the Town Car was actually nice and luxurious, while that new thing just doesn't look like a luxury car. Well, one of my friends said "That's because you're old!", and another one said "You like that Town Car because it looks like something out of the 70's!"

    So, maybe I'm out of touch? :P
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    And when you park a Cadillac SRX next to a Chevy Equinox, it is obvious they are the same under there. And when you park a number of Acuras next to the Hondas, you get the same feeling. And when you park an Escalade next to a Tahoe.....and on and on. But it seems only the Fords get that knock.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,106
    Oh trust me, I'm not too fond of those badge-jobs, either. I was just pointing out Lincoln-specific examples since this is a Lincoln forum.

    In defense of Lincoln though, I always thought they did a fairly good job with the Navigator. It doesn't come off nearly as badge-engineered, IMO, as the Escalade does. And even if I didn't know the SRX was based on the Equinox, I think I'd still have problems calling it a Caddy.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    That said, it's looking like the similarities are over in the new Lincolns. The new Z looks NOTHING like a Fusion, nor does it share an inch of sheet metal or glass with it. The S & T already are that way so the Z was the last one to get unique bodies. They are promising to keep that trend going. As for the Navigator, (I owned a 99 and an 03) I loved them until the 07 Remington shaver front end ensued. Never have warmed up to that, or the 62 F-150 instrument panel inside, and didn't buy one. They've been promising a new Navigator for years now, and it keeps getting set back so that the current model is old enough to vote now.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    The new Navigator was waiting for the new F150 because it can't support a bespoke platform with current and future volumes. I expect it and the Expy to share the F150 platform and some engines but have a totally unique interior and exterior and drivetrains.

    The MKZ doesn't have any new engines because they aren't ready yet.

    BTW - Lincoln just took 3rd place behind Lexus and Porsche in the JD Power 2013 VDS. This measures problems with 2010 model year vehicles.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Actually, the Z does share the windshield and front door glass. That's not much and not very noticeable, but it is still too much, given that most brands do not do this anymore. By the way even though the Equinox and SRX do share some underpinnings, they share less than you seem to think. The Chevy in the GMC Terrain are exactly the same underneath.
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