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Comments
"By combining our consumer research with trade-in data, we see a clear correlation between dependability and loyalty," said Sargent.
But looking at a couple of vehicles I'm familiar with, Lacrosse CXS and friends with Lucernne, I can't believe the ratings. Some of us are getting vehicles that don't measure up, and that brings into question the MKZ rating.
In order for Lincoln to be Lincoln again, they have to go out on the limb and build something like the Olds Aurora. Nothing like it. Unless you look at the Buick version which modified the body for a 4 door version. Totally different power-train with a 3.8 super-charged. After Olds died, the 4.0 V8 was used in Buick for a short time before moving to the bigger version of the Northstar.
I've already kicked the 13 MKS a bit. Let me add that stupid strap for trunk pull down. The build in handles each side of center are better. And I'd like to add air noise for my 2010. Only 28K miles. This is very disappointing that I'd start to hear outside noise so early on. It occurs from both driver and passenger side. I've looked the seals, both door and windows, over and don't spot an issue. It just seems to be typical Ford noise, poor design. With acoustic glass you'd think they might have stepped up the whole area. Add in that I'm now getting some buzz, low frequency, that occurs when bass notes are played, coming from driver door. Sort of like something is loose and vibrating with the low notes.
The reason why the MKZ has a few similar styling cues with the Mondeo/ Fusion cousins are because they all share platform hard points. At least that's what I was told from the person at the Lincoln exhibit. This allows for using a single platform to build all three vehicles in a manufacturing plant in Mexico. He said body parts are only interchangeable for platform sharing. I was informed this allows for supply and demand to determine production values for each vehicle with the least amount of manufacturing inputs . All of this I knew. It was just for my vindication that a Ford person explained to me the reason the MKZ has similar styling cues to its cheaper cousins.
Someone wrote that the Navigator presently has a bespoke platform. Presently it doesn't. It shares platforms with its obsolete Ford cousins. Lincoln will never have a bespoke platform. I am afraid the brand may never be popular with enough buyers to have one.
Yes - well, as you say (relating to the SRX and Equinoxious), "it is still too much, given that most brands do not do this anymore".
Glass vs. underpinnings.....? What Ford is guilty of doing in the past times 3, GM has done times 5, (Venture, Relay, Terraza, Montana, Silouette, & Traverse, Acadia, Outlook, Enclave, etc., ), but Ford gets taken to task for it far more.....
There are myriad examples from past decades of Ford doing this over and over. No different from GM, except that Ford has continued the practice longer. Ford saw fit in the past few years to use some of the same panels and glass between Fords and Lincolns, while GM stopped sharing the same body with Chevys and Cadillacs (other than the Escalade--but then Ford and Nissan and Volkswagen for examples do the same thing for cost reasons) several years ago.
My point, if I am allowed to have one, is that there is still some glass and panel sharing between the Fusion and MKZ, although it is greatly reduced and not noticeable to most eyes. However, all such sharing should be eliminated now, in order to separate Lincoln more from the better Fords. And this is the plan. It is just not accomplished yet.
BTW, the SRX does share some components with Equinox and Terrain. But the SRX is a combination of the current Theta, along with elements of the Epsilon 2 architecture, with some Lambda components (Buick Enclave et al) as well. This platform is sometimes also referred to as Theta-Epsilon. Theta Premium supports larger models than the standard platform. Thus the SRX is built on a premium midsize crossover architecture unique to Cadillac. The Terrain and the Chevrolet Equinox are built on the compact crossover architecture. If you see the Equinox and SRX parked together, you see the rooflines, doors, windows, lines and front and rear are completely unique...as it should be. They even have somewhat different wheelbases.
That is the type of differentiation that Ford is shooting for between the Escape and MKC. And from here on out with other models that share platforms to some extent.
GM has already turned that corner with their sedans. Although the Malibu and Regal share a platform, they share nothing in looks. Same with XTS, Lacrosse and the 2014 Impala. Or the Cruze and Verano.
This move toward differentiation started with the old GM. For example, the 2004-2008 Grand Prix, the 2005-2009 Lacrosse and the 2000-2005 and 2006-2013 Impalas all shared a platform, but they did not share greenhouses or other body panels. The same complete differentiation existed already with the Malibu of a couple generations ago and the now defunct Pontiac G5. GM made a host of errors, but moving toward brand differentiation was not one of them.
So no one is taking Ford to task for panel sharing, any more than when GM did. It is just that new Ford is not yet produced a completely differentiated Lincoln on a Ford platform. They soon will and they will do that with all new models going forward.
BTW - that's a Honda ad.
BTW, those who know the sad statistic about civil war deaths, but little of the surrounding history and context, will often make misguided or uninformed statements about one or more of the players. But this thread is about Lincoln Motor Company, not political history.
Come to think of it, I did see lots more Cadillacs growing up than Lincolns. :shades:
It sorta looked like an Edge, but I really was not sure, but the "Town Car" on the left side was unmistakeable...
MKT Town Car
"General Motors' luxury brand, which has long been in the chauffeur-car market but never had the success of Lincoln, has created a special fleet version of its new XTS sedan."
Cadillac fills hole in limo industry (Detroit Free Press)
Thanks - there were a couple of posts made by someone with a fake email address who didn't get the message after I removed the first one earlier today.
Please don't elaborate. As to deaths, I could have said Iwo Jima was a bad plan, or that there are far more killed in cars than by guns. And that would have been inconguous as well.
I do hope Lincoln Motor gets it act together. I am disappointed that I am starting to hear noise penetrating from around doors or window seals, on 2010 28K miles, and that seems to be a historic issue with many Ford platforms.
For example, look at the MB CLA-Class.
The limo companies will just have to start stretching their own rigs. There's plenty of long Hummer limos around and I've seen a stretched Suburban or two.
In reality, the Lincoln Town Car wasn't a town car at all. A true town car had an open driver compartment.
As for the MKT Town Car - it's marketing son...
Cadillac is offering versions of the XTS to the professional vehicle industry that are ready for extending. The XTS-L can be stretched up to 8", the XTS Limo can be stretched up to 80". There is also an XTS Hearse that can be converted.
Lincoln was named for Abraham Lincoln. Henry M. Leland, who founded Lincoln, greatly admired Abraham Lincoln. When he had the chance to start a new car company, he chose to name the firm after him.
There is a ton more (literally) engineering that goes into a Limo than a regular sedan - and the pre-production Limo has reinforced frames, extended cabling and wiring harnesses, bare interiors heavy duty components ready made for stretching, and warrantied by the manufacturer for such modification if done within the given parameters of the warranty. The base car is "prepared" for the stretch, as opposed to the normal Sedan sold to us. To my knowledge, Fiat/Chrysler doesn't offer a "Limo-ready" car for stretching. Ford is offering the MKT now, and some are being made - but I'm disappointed in them. They just don't look like a limo should to me. The old Town Car did. In fact, it looked better as a Limo (actually what it was DESIGNED to be) than a regular sedan to me.
GM is smart to try to take this market from Ford-if there was ever an opportunity - this would be it. The 300 would be a nice replacement as well, if it were engineered to be one. Someone ought to get in there, because I hear Lexus is preparing to offer the LS in Limo-ready form.
And the Ford brand continues to take up the slack for the company.
Later that day my wife and I got home and I parked in drive. I lock vehicle via the keypad which has been having an anomaly for quite a while now. That is it don't always work on first, second, third, or more tries, but does eventually.
A few hours later my wife noticed a window open which certainly was not so when I shut down. I went and checked. The driver door was unlocked and all four windows were fully down. WTF? Anybody have an idea what is going on?
I had crazy things happening with the 11 Lacrosse as well. On that one I was very suspicious that it had something to do with that GM system where they can send code to your vehicle, unauthorized code! You know they have the capability to unlock, start and stop, and likely much more via their system whether you subscribe or not.
Yesterday I clicked a couple of links to look at MKS options. Sadly I could not find the mileage rating for the ECO or even the power rating. With the number of buyers using internet for buying decisions, it is sad that such sites often have usuability issues. Add out-dated, erroneous, and fudged data, and brand loyalty fades.
It seems auto industry is following Boeing act of lieing about fuel usage so they can get a sale. Fortunately government regulations have an impact on fudging in auto industry.
It seems there has been the reduction of engine choices throughout the industry because of cost. I wonder if Ford/Lincoln are making best choices. A current engine that comes to mind is GM's 3.6L in a loaded 11 Lacrosse CXS. I have not seen a weight spec for my 10 MKS 3.7L FWD, but it was claimed the Lacrosse was ~4400 lbs. The MKS has more area on a front profile allowing for a little more drag.
The Lacrosse. My salesman told me he ran one to 148MPH. I can see that as possible because I was zooming past 130 when I let off. And it did not have much wind noise. And vehicle was very stable.
I would not try this with MKS because of stability and it just does not have near the power even though it was rated only a few horsepower apart. The following model year, over a year later from my build, GM significantly increased horsepower and CAFE numbers stayed the same.
The MKS 3.7, running similar speeds, gets about 2 MPG less on highway and similar in local driving.
I certainly have to suspect the powertrain, engine/tranny, as the main difference. There are definitely tecnological differences between the engines. GM had major issues with that engine in earlier models, especially timing chains. I have not heard of any longevity issues yet, although direct injection and the direct EGR via the exhaust valves would be a question in my mind. Simply because those are new developments, but also those who have been testing their used oil find high gasoline content. There are a number of threads concerning that issue and it seems to be common to engines using direct injection. I have not checked if ECOBoost engine has same finding. Perhaps they have found a way to compensate what certainly would have caused premature wearout a decade or more ago.
Will Lincoln find it's own powerplants?
Really? I went to Lincoln.com, clicked on MKS then Specifications and both the power and mileage ratings are right there.
Are you listening , Lincoln?
It should be mentioned that the RLX will be available with AWD later this year. The AWD version will also have more power. I hope the WSJ tests that model too, to see whether that will make the RLX more competitive with its German rivals. And, let's not forget Cadillac, which just introduced an all-new, larger CTS to take on the Germans.
As I read the WSJ review of the RLX I couldn't help but doubt whether Lincoln is going down the right path for a revival. Time will tell, but I don't think it is.
Ford is going down the only road it can afford with Lincoln. GM is spending billions and billions on Cadillac trying to "beat the Germans" with limited success.
Ford's plan for Lincoln is to start with unique sheetmetal and features, upgrade the dealership experience to be more Lexus like (this has only just begun and will take years), add unique powertrains (still in development), add higher volume luxury models (MKC e.g.) - all over the next few years.
THEN they can start considering unique platforms. Trying to develop a halo vehicle right now would only make the journalists and a very few customers happy.
Ford can afford to float Lincoln for a few years so they can afford to take their time and try to build the brand from the ground up.
The biggest problem Lincoln has right now is vehicles like the MKZ keep getting compared to Ford vehicles like the Fusion instead of the true competition like the A6, ES, etc.
E.g. - people complain about the 2.0EB being the base engine. Yet when you look at the Audi A6 and even the Jaguar XF - they both have the same 2.0L Turbo engine yet both produce less power than the MKZ and cost at least $10K more.
Judging by the number of people who have waited for ordered MKZs for 6 months or more the buying public likes this vehicle and they shouldn't have any trouble selling 40k-50k without the overhead of a totally new platform.
A brand is at a disadvantage when a buyer has to explain why he/she chose it. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus and even Cadillac don't require explaining, but Lincoln may in certain situations. Such a choice can put the buyer on the defensive with car enthusiasts. That's a head wind for Lincoln. Now, it's true that most luxury car buyers aren't enthusiasts, but enthusiasts exert a disproportionate influence on a brand's reputation and cache'.
Another head wind for Lincoln is that there's nothing special about it. It's not known for performance, styling safety or comfort; doesn't stand above its peers in reliability, and it has below average prestige and dealer service in its class.
I hope Lincoln overcomes these deficits because I'm a fan of domestic brands. I don't happen to own one now, but I've owned several in the past and would certainly consider one for my next purchase.
Well - I do agree about the lack of a "special quality" right now. I have felt for years, the Lincolns should have more power, larger engines (maybe not now, that's out of style), a consistent styling theme like Lincoln used to have with their former "Rolls-Royce" style grille - instantly identifyable to anybody. Until Lincoln Touch, Lincoln usually was 1 or 2 in the JD Power surveys, and Touch has killed Lincoln and Ford on the surveys. Overall though, Lincolns have consistently been very trouble free. Now, you mention Prestige - that's the saddest part of all. I drove Lincolns consistently from 1992-2006. When people saw you, or heard you had a Lincoln - they were impressed. That truly is now gone. The Navigator was the last vestige of respect, and it's been neglected so long now, it looks old enough to vote. Lincoln has become Ford's Buick.
I drove an MKS the other day. It's very comfy, power is great with the EgoBoost (I know, I mis-spelled that on purpose), handling is good, it's very quiet, cabin is nice - not gorgeous, but nice. For $30,000 less than my Lexus, it would be a good buy, and I could drive it without complaint. BUT, when asked what it was, and I had to say "It's a Lincoln, and boy, it's JUST LIKE A LEXUS, really, it is, just LIKE one......". Even I don't buy it. And that's half of what a luxury car buyer wants; street cred. Lincoln no longer has ANY!
From a former Cadillac owner, who drove them from 83-92, and left them out of disgust for what they had become - for the superior in every way Lincoln at that time, - then left Lincoln for Lexus in 06, it sure would be nice to see Lincoln do what Cadillac did and resurrect the brand. Opinions of Cadillac vary, but there is no harsher critic of GM than I am - and Cadillac has really re-established themselves as, at least, a premium, performance brand. Most models (cars at least), are a good value for the money now.
I think the way Ford is going they'll get there - hope they can catch the rest though, because they're not standing still either.
It all depends on whether you want accolades or sales and profits.
Are there really enough Lincoln dealers out there to have a decent dealer network???...if they make them an extension of a Ford dealer, that will be like attaching a Lexus dealer next to the Camrys...