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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

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Comments

  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ok, just showed this picture of the 07 Nav to my wife. Asked for her reaction. She said, "Oh, is that the new Escalade"? This must be where the focus groups took them, but the more I look at it, the worse I like it. Where is the trademark waterfall grille? Is this the new look of Lincoln? Can't imagine a town car with this grille. OTOH, the New Mark Z (aka Zephyr) has an eggcrate grille too, so this must be the new look of Lincoln. How sad.
    Can you tell I'm greatly disappointed? Anybody listening out there? Scooter, got a pic of the interior? I'd love to see what they cheapened in there.....
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    image

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  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Wife:
    "That looks classy, but in a over-the-top way. Is that a Cadillac or something? I really like it"

    7 year old son:
    "That looks like the Expedition, but fancy"
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,168
    Those gauges look very 70s, IMO. And that front end is very pimpy, I chuckled when I first saw the pic
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    ...And the seats have a baggy, square stitched pattern, like the one's in the '77 Continental my Grandparents had.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    of similarities to the old Continentals here, including the instrument cluster that, if I recall correctly, resembles the about 70 Continental. All the center stack of controls are the same as a Ford 500, Fusion, etc. That doesn't impress me. Glad they stayed with the theme, but clearly, they cheaped out, the class is now lacking. I knew they'd have to change the interior, as this truck is based on the F-150, and the past one was not, it was unique.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    ANT @ Ford tells me the Hurricane Engine hasn't been cancelled at all. He says, like with any storm, you never know when it's going to strike. So potentially, it could show up in the Navigator someday, making it competitive in the power department. Or not....I don't know. But ANT would know.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "I knew they'd have to change the interior, as this truck is based on the F-150, and the past one was not, it was unique."

    Sorry, it's not based on THIS F-150.
    The body shell is still the same one used for the last 10 years.
    That's why they use that foot wide piece of plastic on the bottom of the doors - to hide the 1997 F-150 body lines.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Ok, state your source, scooter - because my source who works for Ford in design, said (and I owned 2 of them) my 03 Navigator's interior would not fit into the new 07 Navigator - because the size changed when it became based upon the new F-150 body. This is why the Mark LT didn't get the Navigator interior. So, what's up? :confuse:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    What's up is you are getting a mixed message.

    The 07 Navigator has some of the front end frame modifications used under the F150. This modified architecture will be used going forward until something even better supercedes it.

    And as stated many times before, it does have a new front clip, new interior trim, new transmission, and new tailgate. The body shell itself has not been modified since 1998 (when it was based on the 1997 F150), except for some stiffening...which may have changed some interior trim mounting points.

    The same doors, windshield and sideglass remain since 1998(the rear sideglass was very slightly modified along with the changed liftgate in 2003). That is not to say it is the same vehicle as a 1998, but the cowl, A and B pillars, etc., have been recycled longer what occurs with most SUVs.

    Look at it this way...I think for most people, it is easier to see the same body shell sharing when comparing the 2005 Explorer and the 2006. However, the differences between the 2006 and 2007 Navs are comparable to the 05 to 06 Explorer changes. Explorer received a completely new front clip, new interior trim, new tailgate, chassis stiffening, more sound deadening, a new transmission, some different exterior trim details...plus a stronger V8 (which the Nav unfortunately is not getting).
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    The new Navigator is NOT "based upon the new F-150 body."

    Neither is the Expedition.
    The F-150 (and it's clone Mark LT) was all new in 2004

    Are you really saying a 2003 Navigator is a completely different vehicle than the 2007???

    The Expedition was heavily freshened for 2003 but is still the same body shell going back to 97.
    That's why they can't use the same interior - the SUV's are completely different from the trucks.
    The trucks are new, the SUV's are the old body.
    As I said before - ask yourself-why do they use that slab of plastic down the side of Exp and Nav? Open your door and look at the body line contours on the edge of the door-see the 10 year old body lines peeking out from under that plastic mask? Why is that there? -To hide the 1997 F-150 body lines.

    That false frugality also explains why Ford's SUV's and Ranger have lost their one-time truck leadership.

    The Ranger dates back to 1982 and the Exp/Nav to 1997. and the Explorer goes back to about a 1983 Bronco II and is using the same 4-door body as when they came out around 1990.
    It's like someone who keeps adding on to their old house, maybe the add-ons are nice, but it still is just a bigger and fancier old house.

    Ford invested in an all-new Mustang and F150 how are they selling?
    What about the Navigator or Ranger?
    See a trend?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I love that instrument panel! That should be in the Town Car, not wasted on another stupid SUV. It would be better if the "silver" was real brushed aluminum instead of that Nissanesque silver-painted plastic. The front end again is nice but wasted on an SUV.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I love that instrument panel!"

    You're kidding, right?

    Those gauges remind me of the control panel on my mom's GE double-oven, ca. 1974. Or a Westbend alarm clock, I'm not sure which....
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Easiest to read determines the best instrument panel and it doesn't make any difference if the panel looks like an old electric range or anything else "old". Old is not a bad thing. I once drove a TC with a clock having Roman numerals. That's not old, that's classic. Easy to read is what you need. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Although if you can do easy-to-read with class or great style or edginess or innovation, all the better.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "Old is not a bad thing. I once drove a TC with a clock having Roman numerals."

    That's because most Town Car buyers were around during the Roman Empire.

    Actually, I kind of like the square gauges, they remind me of Elvis-inspired sunglasses.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes, I think they are ok too. At least they are not everyone else's.

    However, the uninspired box in the middle between the tach and speedometer could have easily been more classy.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Easiest to read determines the best instrument panel..."

    Well, that's the thing. Those instruments are NOT easy to read.

    Problems -

    1. The tach/speedo needles are the same color as the markings on the gauges. No color contrast to help spot the needle at a very quick glance.

    2. The very long dashes between the numbers (on both the tach and speedo) make it that much more difficult to pick out where the needle is. Ideally, the needle length should be long enough (and the little divider dashes short enough) so that the indicator needle completely occludes the divider dashes).

    3. Why the big empty space between the gauges when either the tach/speedo could have been larger (increased legibility) or some secondary gauges placed there rather than being blocked by the upper portion of the steering wheel.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,168
    I'd be distracted by the pure 70s-ness of it all. Somewhere, a Continental is missing its cluster, and I'd be wondering where.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Could be dangerous, an angry pimp could come looking for his missing gauges...
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The backlit white analog guages with the red floating needles on my Navigator could not be easier to read in any conditions. I don't think you can possibly improve on them. Lexus has had them since 91, Lincoln put them in the Continentals in 95. The Navigator got them in 03, and I think EVERY LIncoln should have them. These look like Continentals of the 70's, and while nostalgic as the Mustang's are, they're not easier to read for anybody, and they could have put in the square dials if they wanted to remind us fogies about the old days, with the new technology within. These just look old and cheap.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yes got one for you. A 2007 Acura RDX ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Oh my Gawd Rorr-> :cry: <-laughter !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D that is the funniest thang I heard in awhile.

    Rocky
  • kirby2010kirby2010 Member Posts: 136
    My last car was a '94 SHO - and I miss it from time-to-time. I sold it and bought an Audi. In 2001 the was not much in the domestic market that was very exciting. I'd sure like to see Ford do something in the performance area, besides Mustang. I remember when the SHO was introduced in the late 80s. Lots of angst over a sedan outperforming the Mustang. These days Ford has got to step up to the sports sedan competition and 221 hp won't cut it. Does anyone see a performance sedan in Ford's future??
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I don't think we will be seeing any hot rod Lincolns any time soon. Ford can hardly crank out competitive mainstream engines fast enough, without worrying about V-type performance models.

    However, Fusion will soon have a Mazda-speed style model with a 4 cylinder stronger than the 3.5 liter 6. That will likely be a niche model like the SHO. (With the SHO, Ford first put the kabosh on reasonable sales by not offering an automatic option, and then totally screwed up the concept by not offering a MANUAL option on the 1996 replacement.) Now Ford has basically strangled the SVO/SVT division by killing/not replacing most models and promising more than what they can deliver.

    The 427 concept, even if only grafted to the Crown Vic chassis, would have sold well in this present market. It had the gangster look and proportions of the 300C (but definitely Ford heritage), along with the requisite hp. Or with a Lincoln grill, it could have been a cheap and cheeky replacement for the LS.

    Instead of the Forty Nine concept (which had a back seat and the potential option of 2 more doors), we got the two seater T-bird at $40,000. Now, how did any of the marketing people expect it to sell in big numbers in an already crowded and small market? The car would have much better been a Lincoln, where small production and high price would have been expected.

    Until Lincoln recovers, they could use creativity and boldness--the cojones to do weird and wonderful things cheaply with the products they already have. I've been in focus groups and what happens there is more for the Toyotas of the world, not struggling divisions hoping to grab some attention and untapped markets.
  • kirby2010kirby2010 Member Posts: 136
    Thanks Gregg - I appreciate your insight. You're right on target.

    I read this morning that Lincoln sales are now half those of Cadillac. But Lincoln has a response - they're renaming their car line with letters!! Next year the Zephyr will be the MKZ. How stupid is this. Two years ago Lincoln and Cadillac sales were nearly identical. Do they really think sales will go up with a name change. Who dreams this nonsense up. I bet some actuary did a study and sold this nonsense.

    What they need to do is drag an Audi A4 3.0 into the lab and park it side by side with the Zephyr and compare. 255 hp V-6 No! AWD? No!

    The market for American cars has been shirking - coincidentally with the population shift to the coasts. I'd be willing to bet in New England there are more BMWs, Audis, and MBs sold each year than all the Lincolns in the US. And if what's left of their market were driving distance to a foreign auto dealer there'd be no market left at all.

    Is anyone at Ford (or GM) paying attention?
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "I read this morning that Lincoln sales are now half those of Cadillac. But Lincoln has a response - they're renaming their car line with letters!! "

    Remember just a few years ago when Lincoln outsold Cadillac?

    Cadillac had a bunch of badge engineered and front wheel drive cars. Lincoln had the unique Continental, Mark 8, LS, Town Car and the Navigator which had a unique Lincoln-only engine?

    Now Lincoln has stopped advertising the TC and LS (Notice their TV ads don't even show these cars in the line-up?) and the badge engineered Zephyr, badge engineered Mark LT and the Navigator which is a nicely trimmed Expedition with the same engine?

    Isn't is sad, for Lincoln, the Escalade has an engine with 103 hp MORE than the Ford which gets 30% better MPG?

    It's really sad what they have done.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    Lincoln has never in its 83 years outsold Cadillac.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    Or its 88 years for that matter.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,328
    What I find interesting is that Henry Ford bought a troubled Lincoln from Henry Leland. Henry Leland led a group of inventors that forced Henry Ford out of the Henry Ford Company (renamed Cadillac).

    Its interesting how things work out.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Mercury failed when the Marauder didn't even turn out as good as the old 1994-96 Chevrolet Impala SS. Heck, I'd have purchased a Marauder if it equalled or exceeded it. Good thing I read the motor magazines before I bought it. Could you imagine a real hot-rod Lincoln Town Car? How about an LSVO? I could see a commercial where they show an LSVO racing against a Cadillac STS-V and beating it while Commander Cody's song plays in the background.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    The inter-relations in the early years are facinating. John and Horace Dodge were on the board at Ford while Dodge Bros. built parts for GM. Both Charles Nash and Walter Chrysler were president at Buick.

    The two Henry's sure had different idea's. Leland was a perfectionist and wanted to build the best at anycost (which is why he went under without GM's bean counters), while Ford wanted to build the cheapest product (cost wise) possible. Then Ford not only bought Lincoln but carried it for 30 years.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    Year 2000 sales figures:

    Lincoln MY 2000 Total:193,009(Cars: 155,086/Trucks:37,923)

    Cadillac MY 2000 Total:189,154(Cars: 165,808/Trucks:23,246)

    Also that year the Lincoln LS outsold the Lexus ES 300 51,000 to 41,000.
    How far they have fallen.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    Oh, right, my figures don't include trucks. My mistake.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    >Ford first put the kabosh on reasonable sales by not offering an automatic option, and then totally screwed up the concept by not offering a MANUAL option on the 1996 replacement.)<

    IIRC, when the first SHO came out, Ford didn't have an automatic that could handle the torque of that Yamaha engine yet, so the manual was all they could offer at first. Later, they beefed up the auto tranny to handle it. At that point, why they dropped the Manual was due to slow sales of that option. Just like with the Lincoln LS. The manual was deleted last year - just didn't sell enough of them to justify the EC.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Ford certainly needs to rework their advertising. I don't watch a lot of TV, but of what I do watch, Zephyr hasn't shown up very often. Their sales literature, for what is supposed to be an important car for Lincoln, is pretty cheesy.

    Where is Ford taking Lincoln? I don't think Ford knows what to do with Lincoln. They never really have. Not consistently, anyway. Not since Edsel Ford died.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Hello again, Texan. You are exactly right. Ford has screwed up in advertising their products for YEARS, DECADES even. The LS you are driving was never properly marketed, and has been totally abandoned after Jacque the Knife Nasser was axed. It was his car, and a damn good one, and with proper marketing, it could have possibly made Ford some money. But it's over-engineered for the price point, and there's no margin in it, which is why it's going away soon. I should steal one while I can - but they're too small for me. If Lincoln would make an LS in the 7-Series size, RWD, I'd still buy one.

    The Zephyr is kind of a turn off for me. If that's the direction Lincoln is going, I may have to stay in the Lexus club - after driving Lincolns for 15 years, happily.

    At the moment, it seems Ford is the honest brand. Mercury is the Woman's Ford, and Lincoln is the fancier Ford.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    "Lincoln is the fancier Ford"

    That's getting too true, and it's too bad. I'd rather see Mercury, not Lincoln, compete with Buick, and Lincoln compete with Caddy, like they should.

    As for Lexus, I'm enough of a contrarian that, despite their build quality and reliability, I just can't force myself to jump on the bandwagon! I think it's because someone I knew was always swooning over them, to the point of nausea - yup, I'm a contrarian.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Despite what I said above about being a contrarian regarding Lexus, I am looking forward to seeing the ES350. It will be on the list when it comes time to replace my wife's car (Volvo S70), as will whatver Lincoln has out then.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, it took me a long time to jump on the Lexus wagon as well, and if Lincoln built a large sedan that was a little nicer looking inside, with good A/C (meaning the Town Car isn't doing it for me anymore), I'd have one. Your LS has what I want in a Sedan, except a large back seat.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Agreed. I wish the trunk were deeper, too.
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    Fellow Lincoln Drivers...

    Peter Horbury was given a draft to come up with a modern idiom of Lincoln...all previous designs having been rejected. The Mark S shows all the signs of a low budget investment by Ford. It is based off the Volvo platform and the block is also a Volvo block. The "Z" is a Mazda6 based platform constructed at their low wage plant across the border. Tacking Mark S production onto the Ford-Mercury plant in Chicago will further marginalise the brand. Studebaker tried this with Packard in 1957 and it did not work. Zephry or Z might sell because it is $10,000 less than the car it replaced...but up market buyers have no where to go if they want a Lincoln. Ford Motor has spoken loudly: Go to Jaguar and Aston for the big money cars. Lincoln is relegated to what it was planned to be in 1952: competition for Buick and Oldsmobile. Now, of course, it is Infiniti, and Lexus. No longer a competitor against Cadillac, or BMW, or Mercedes-Benz. There may well remain a coterie of designers and executives that want to save Lincoln and bring it back to the forefront of the industry as a luxury marque...but they are making themselves scarce and their voice is not being heard. That this is so remains because all of the four previous Lincoln show cars were well received by the public and press, but NEVER built. Using production logistics and an excuse does not cut it---that is pablum for the public.

    The truth is that those individuals who have proposed expansion of Lincoln and investment in the marque have left Ford. Mr. Reitzle chief among them. The Chief Engineer for LS, one of the few women engineers in the industry, left Ford Motor and now works for Collins & Aikemen, supplier for the Zephyr. In short, from all I have been able to ascertain, William C. Ford Jr. simply disdains Lincoln and Continental and is adverse to investing large sums in the marque. With the closure of Wixom in 15 months, especially after the $113Mn offer by Governor Granholm to help keep the plant open, (not to mention offending the Governor), Mr. Ford is demonstrating with his corporate checkbook that he is killing Lincoln---relegating it to a sideline marque within the Ford Empire. The reason, I speculate, is quite simple: Continental Mark II was his father's division and project within Ford---one of the few post-war attempts by an American company to regain the high ground after 1945---and the Mark II failed within 30 months of introduction in 1955. Cancellation of that project deeply hurt William C. Ford Sr., and I think that young William C. Jr. is well aware of that fact...and does not want to suffer the same fate by investing in Continentals. Pure guesswork on my part, but I think that is an element, however remote, in the real world investments being made by Ford Motor today in Lincoln---or rather de-investment.

    Without the announcement of the construction of a new modern and exclusive plant for the marque...Lincoln is dying. It will be a remodelled Ford pick-up truck, and an upscale Ford chassis. Traditional American luxury buyers, and loyal Lincoln owners will not be satisfied for long with that. The sales will continue to drop. Conversely Chrysler 300 sales continue apace, and Imperial will take away customers that Lincoln had or might have earned---and we're talking numbers equal to what Town Car sells. Oddly enough given the double digit decreases in sales for Jaguar, despite the competence of the new Jaguar XK/Astons which are leaders in engineering in the industry, Ford will be hard pressed for cash for future luxury car investment---with $6Bn invested in Jaguar alone. Where will the money come from if the new Jaguars aren't accepted by the buying public? The fate of Lincoln, simply put, will not survive with cheaper market entrants and tarted up platforms. Ford Motor has to lead with a dash of arrogance and daring, and must find its place within Lincoln...but there are no champions of the brand within the walls of the Glass House. Lincoln has become "icing" on the cake, rather than a layer of the corporate cake at Ford.

    As for Mr. Leland not being able to "make it" without GM, that is not correct. Mr. Leland left GM to accept the call to build armaments for the war effort directly by the Secretary of War in the Wilson Cabinet, and Colonel House, the President's aide-de-camp. Leland---being a patriot---named Lincoln for the first President he had ever voted for in 1864. The U.S. Government awarded contracts to the newly established Lincoln Motor Company to build aero engines in 1917, as part of the Liberty Engine program. The end of the war in November 1918 found Lincoln with no customer, large debts, and the need to shift to motorcar production. The extensive development cost of the Model L coupled with "War-time Profits Tax" of $500K levied on Lincoln for its Liberty contracts, and a dip in the auto market in 1921 placed Lincoln into receivership by its creditors. There was nothing wrong with the L, but all manufacturers suffered from the post-1918 depression. Mr. Leland was approached by the DuPont family to bring Lincoln into GM, but Henry L. and Willfred could not see the efficacy of competing against their former company Cadillac---feeling that they wanted his engineering expertise and not Lincoln. Edsel Ford knew that Ford Motor could not survive without expansion into new markets, urging his father to purchase Lincoln.

    Henry Ford had previously bought a Rolls-Royce Ghost chassis and was inspired to one-up Mr. Royce. Thus Edsel became the head of the newly acquired Lincoln in February 1922, acquiring the company for $8Mn. Lincoln sales increased throughout the 1920's and Ford Motor continued to develop the L, K, KA, and KB chassis for the next two decades. It was the depression that killed the custom-built V12 Lincoln, leaving the marque to the cheaper Zephry-Continental Series and the small-block 292 V12. The Tjaarda based design remodelled by Bob Gregorie saved Lincoln and made profits for the marque. Why today's Zephyr is appropriately named and should remain so. Between 1937-1940 Lincoln sold only 212 of its K series chassis. The Continental saved Lincoln from being relegated to becoming a cheaper marque---why Edsel developed it. Likewise it saved Lincoln after 1945, when few new cars were available to the public, the manufacturers having to revamp their 1942 chassis.

    Lincoln and Continental have played a key role at Ford Motor, preventing the company from being relegated to a minor position in the market-place. But without a new factory, and new designs unique to the brand, Ford Motor will suffer that fate which Edsel prevented from happening during his tennure as 'President' of Ford. William C. Ford Jr. is making the mistakes today that his grandfather avoided more than seventy five years ago.

    DouglasR
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    An excellent and informative post, Douglas. Thanks. I have been an afficionado of Lincoln and Ford history for years. It's a fascinating story, Mr. Leland and his companies.

    I've driven Lincolns for 15 years. It hurts me deeply to see the brand ruined like this. :cry:
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    Soo, what part of that had Lincoln making it? I mean I'm a fan of Lelands work, but he wasn't willing to go cheap.
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    UM: Lincoln Motor in the start-up period 1919-1920 represented as many as 29,500 testing operations on all the component parts of the L chassis built at the Livonia Avenue Plant, the first of which rolled out of the factory doors September 14, 1920. Under the Leland's 2,957 chassis were built between September 1920 and the end of 1921, with an additional 150 chassis completed before the Ford buyout in February of 1922.

    Initial capitalisation of the company was $8Mn, with a subsequent bank loan of $4.25Mn which allowed Lincoln to proceed with operations beyond the start-up and development costs. During this time the U.S. Government hit Lincoln Motor with a tax bill of $5.4Mn. An additional bank loan secured during the latter half of 1921 of $500K was essentially consumed fighting the Government tax case. A second refinancing of the company was almost secured by Wilfred Leland, but the Government persisted hitting Lincoln Motor a third time with a reduced tax bill of $4.5Mn---a bill that Leland's and Lincoln Motor would never have to pay.

    Sales of cars were initially brisk considering it was a new marque, and Leland was trading on his reputation, but in the depression market of 1921 weren't enough to offset the costs engendered by the government's tax liability case. The dimming market caused cancellation of 30% of Lincoln's orders...coupled with the renewed tax claim against Lincoln Motor forced the company into receivership in November 1921. Other companies as Pierce Arrow and Cadillac suffered similar declines in sales of 44%, if not greater percentages by other marques. Leland and Lincoln Motor were still selling chassis, but without liquidity to keep operations going having to fight the Government Tax Case, and without subsequent refinancing as a result of that case, Henry L and Wilfred had not choice but to seek a receiver.

    With the change in ownership, Ford Motor paid out $4.018Mn in debts to creditors, and the prior tax bill was renegotiated with the U.S. Government...at a substantially lower amount. Ford Motor, therefore had the same $12.5Mn invested in Lincoln that the Leland's had. Initial orders made Lincoln Motor a sound propasition, but the shift in the market and the Government tax case destroyed the liquidity of the company, through no fault of the Leland's or the quality of the L Lincoln chassis.

    Production doubled once Edsel Ford took the reigns of Lincoln, increasing to 5,512 in 1923 and remaining at a consistent 7,500 plus chassis per year through the decade until 1930. The publicity surrounding the Ford Motor acquisition and its expansion up-market was a shrewd move and with the weight of Ford behind Lincoln caused a surge in sales...often to the detriment of its competitors. The Leland's and Lincoln Motor were solvent from the start...but could not fight an immediate change in the marketplace coupled with an unexpected liability as a new stand-alone entrant in the marketplace with a new dealer network.

    Today we have the opposite problem: Lincoln sits astride the Ford Empire with minimal capital investment forthcoming, yet with plenty of waiting customers and a dealer-base. There is simply no new up-market chassis for Lincoln to sell....

    DouglasR

    (Source: Sixty years of Lincoln MotorCar, Thomas E. Bonsall, Bookman Publishing, Baltimore Maryland; Personal Recollections, Frank Lesnick, Lincoln Motor Co. 1921-2)
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Douglas, I really enjoy reading your posts. They are informative. I'm sad to say I don't think you're wrong in your pessimism. Ford seems to treat Lincoln as an unwelcome step-child. It pains me to say that, considering how much I've enjoyed my LS, my first Lincoln, thus far.
  • gepfundgepfund Member Posts: 1
    I'm not sure what many of you have agaist Ford. Lincoln will always be a Ford. They make them. Deal with it. I happen to believe that the Zephyr is a great car and a great first step to make Lincoln more viable for younger people. Yes the Zephyr is not your father's lincoln nor was it meant to be. It was meant to attract younger buyers into the show room and it worked cause I drove it and traded in my X-type for it. I predict it will be a big seller for Lincoln. I think they are making a mistake changing the name however to a MKZ or Mark z. I think that is rather stupid.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    LOts of us don't get the name change, and abandonment of the heritage names. I'm sure some marketing guru told Bill that Letters were the new way to go - everybody does it.....
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    "Deal with it." I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one don't have a problem with Lincoln being a division of Ford, just as I don't have a problem with Jaguar and Volvo being divisions of Ford or with Cadillac and Saab being divisions of GM.

    However, GM seems to have a plan for Cadillac. Unique design theme; better job of differentiating their models from the other GM models whose platforms they share; better job of marketing; better job of defining Cadillac's mission. Ford, on the other hand, does not seem to have a plan for Lincoln. No design theme between the models (note radically different theme between the cars and trucks, and between the cars - Zephyr vs concept MKS). Lincoln used to be an attempt at directly competing with Cadillac. It's not, now, and that's the problem I have with Ford. Making Lincoln "luxury for the blue jeans set" is an abandonment of what Lincoln was intended to be.

    As for the Zephyr, I agree with gepfund. I like the design, size, drive. I don't understand the bias against the bumper not being flush, or some of the other gripes mentioned on the Zephyr forum. A lot of the design gripes are a matter of taste. And, not everyone needs or wants tons of horsepower and performance driving. Some of us just like a comfortable, competent ride. Besides, it's not just about horsepower, but also about torque and how the transmission makes use of the horsepower and torque. My albeit limited test drive left me thinking there's more than sufficient oomph. I think the Zephyr could be a real hit for Lincoln, if it's marketed and supported. However, Lincoln (Ford) has a history of abandoning successful cars, like the LS.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Why ? Buick LaCrosse SUPER :shades:

    Rocky
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