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BMW 335i 2007+
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Comments
http://www.mschumacher.com/
Click the above link to read about another slush box driving sissy. I'm still inclined to think that he can brag about his various "sports cars".
tayl0rd: The SLK55 is automatic only. An SLK350 can be ordered with a 6-speed manual. As can the C class. Beyond that, forget it.
circlew: you conveniently forgot the fine print in the 911 Turbo comparison. Shaving 0.3 seconds off the 0-60 time in the Tiptronic requires the use of "launch assist". You put the car in gear, hold the brake pedal, floor the gas (the computer holds the rpms at redline) wait for the turbo's to spool up, and then release the brake. By the time you do all of that, I'm crossing the 1/4 mile marker in my 911S, let alone the Turbo 6-speed manual. "Launch assist" is a complete joke among Porsche enthusiasts. Who buys a 911 Turbo to act like a jackass at a stoplight? And you still have to get your opponent to wait while you go through that multi-step launch assist process in order to exhibit supreme jackassedness. Frankly, they can keep that 0.3 second 0-60 advantage that takes 10-20 seconds to achieve. Wait until Porsche comes out with a DSG before you even think of forecasting any slight threat to the 6-speed manual in Stuttgart. And, need I remind you, that a 415hp/300 ft.lb RWD 6-speed manual GT3 significantly beats a 480hp/505 ft.lb AWD 911 Turbo Tiptronic around Nurburgring. A metric that's a little more in line with what most people who buy Porsches consider important.
As for the BMW's SMG debacle in the M5 and M6, you also conveniently forgot to mention that the outcry was so loud over the poor performance that BMW reintroduced the 6-speed manual transmission in the M5. Some would say, too little, too late. Resale values on the previous generation (manual only) M5 have increased in the last year.
AMG is it's own animal. Who else puts 738 ft lbs of torque into a 2 seater (SL65) that weighs as much as our former Isuzu Trooper. Between you me and the walls, they seem to be catering to the ultimate, very rich, jackass imitators. But they do it so well, who am I to question them?
getz: A little definition help is in order. "Slush" = torque converter automatic. Mr. Schumacher does not, nor has he ever, driven a slushbox. The Ferrari F1 is a "sequential manual gearbox (SMG)" that does not have a torque converter. It replaces a foot activated clutch pedal with an electronically activated clutch linked to a thumb paddle. The advantage to Formula One drivers is that they can keep both hands on the wheel in 3+ g turns. Not exactly something a 335i or even 911 Turbo is capable of. If you think that BMW's automatic steptronic has anything in common with a Ferrari F1 SMG gearbox, you'd likely mistake me for Tiger Woods off the tee.
dan12: "As far as performance loss, if there is any, I'm sure I would more than make up for it by taking a driving class to teach me how to really drive." Probably true, but if you go to Porsche's or Skip Barber's driving schools, they only use manual transmissioned cars. Ouch.
Now have at me, but keep repeating, it's all in good spirit.
Taking the driver out of the shifting business is good business for the manufacturers. Even the very best modern shiftable automatic — VW/Audi's brilliant dual-clutch Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) — will keep the driver from doing anything that might harm the drivetrain. Why even mark the red line on a tachometer if the computers won't allow it to be exceeded anyhow?
Precise computer controls make meeting emissions and fuel-economy goals more straightforward; they can protect against driver behavior that can result in warranty claims, plus the market long ago showed it preferred automatics. And in raw performance, there is less and less measurable advantage for manual transmissions. Throw in the rise of computer-dependent hybrids and other technologies and it's hard to see how manual transmissions can long survive.
Sigh. Electronics promise a lot that's good for the future of personal transportation. But we're losing something valuable, too.
I am sure this will not be a complete death but it's getting harder to find the pure guys like yourself.
For me, it will be a balance. I plan to get a MT fun car when I want to drive for pleasure but desire the AT to make the commute.
Regards,
OW
For me, two reasons will make me decide. The shifting itself through the gearshift does not lend me to decide. Because I do track a second car (STi) and have always driven manuals, reason #1 is that the heel-and-toe/rev-matching fun will be sorely missed w/o a clutch pedal. This is an art that always gives me grins! Reason #2, only if I will for sure be commuting through heavy traffic daily, then would a good manu-matic (steptronic) be my option, but that's the only reason. Now, SMG on the other hand, once more perfected in 'daily-driver' cars, I will surely consider (but will still miss that heel-and-toe maneuver).
My .02 cents, of course.
I dont find myself to be clutch challenged, especially as my last 7 vehicles had 3 pedals, however if there have been any technological advances worthy of mentioning, it the progression in shift patterns/smoothness/rapidity of gear changes present in modern day automatics. To quote you "The advantage to Formula One drivers is that they can keep both hands on the wheel in 3+ g turns. Not exactly something a 335i or even 911 Turbo is capable of." The advantage of an autmated gear box is exactly as you state, to keep both hands on the wheel. This benefits you at every level, from autocross, to back road spirited driving.
If you enjoy stepping on a clutch, great, but realize that the performance gap that you percieve exist only in your mind.
-Getz
I think that's simply because BMW has tried/is trying to make it all but impossible to get an M5 with a proper manual transmission. Remember that BMW wasn't even going to offer a manual on the current M5 here, but potential owners protested and forced them to. BMW, in a passive-aggressive move, retaliated by crippling the proper manual equipped M5 with a NON-defeatable traction/stability control system; so there goes the performance. They're doing all they can to justify their horrid SMG.
You want a sports car or sport coupe, go buy one. But rowing around a 4,000 lb. 4-door in traffic doesn't make sense to me.
It's a very narrow niche of preference, a large 4-door manual transmission car. That combo has never been very successful.
I wouldn't buy a 528i with a stick either, but I would a 3 series coupe.
But, the old E39 M5 was just marginally bigger than a 3-series coupe.. From the driver's seat, you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference..
The current model is another matter... Plus, with a big old honking V-10, who needs gears?! :surprise:
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I do enjoy driving the twisty bits with it, but if I did not have to follow the mandate from SWMBO (and compromise) to get a car that can accommodate 2 baby seats, I'd be in some vintage of 911. If I did have a 911, then I may have been just as happy with an E55, automatic and all. :P
What propaganda have you been brainwashed by? The SMG in the E60 M5 is terrible. So bad, in fact, that it was U.S. enthusiasts that embarassed BMW into hastily developing a 6-speed manual version. I own a 2003 E39 M5 with nearly 50,000 miles and BMW could not get me to take a brand new E60 M5 SMG on an even trade. The high revving V10 engine is fantastic, the SMG transmission a complete embarassment to anyone that knows how to drive.
"I can seamelessly trasition into whatever gear I please. Whether it be in anticipation of an upcoming apex which leads into a sweeping turn, or the early stage of passing a tractor-trailer, I fail to see the downside.... If you enjoy stepping on a clutch, great, but realize that the performance gap that you percieve exist only in your mind."
If you "perceive" that you can do all that and that BMW's steptronic torque-converter automatic is as good as their 6-speed short throw manual, you have a far, far more creative imagination than habitat. Or a much lower standard of performance. Either way, that's just plain B.S.
Don't take my word for it. Take your automatic 335i to the BMW performance driving school and see how far behind a 6-speed you will be around a lap. If you can bribe them to let you on the track.
I'm not sure at what point you think "rowing" becomes annoying, but the E39 M5 vs. 3 series size distinction is a dubious one, at best. My 2003 E39 V8 M5 weighs less than 10% more than my nephew's 335i and 5% more than a 335ix. All of which weigh substantially less than a 2-seat SL55. the interior dimensional differences between an E39 M5 and current 3 series is nominal, at best. The number of so-called "sport" or "GT" vehicles that weigh as much or more than my M5 is appalling. And the 3-series has put on about 1,000 lbs since the first M3 debuted. Frankly, the fact that my M5 has a 6-speed manual makes it feel MORE nimble around town, and is certainly not a chore to drive.
A business associate of mine picked up an E55 a month after I got my M5, for an intial price of about $5,000 more. After 4+ years and nearly 50,000 miles, my M5 is would resell for at least $7-10,000 more than his E55 with 32k miles. There are a lot more people out there that are "enthusiastic" about a manual transmission only E39 M5 than an automatic only E55.
Being that my company holds dozens of patents and has helped pioneer state of the art microjet technology, I am hardly adverse to positive, performance enhancing engeering advances. I embrace them. But let's be clear, BMW's SMG doesn't make the grade. And their automatics don't come close. Convenience, maybe. Performance, absolutely not. Ferrari has the best SMG on the market, Porsche is working on what will likely be the best DSG. If BMW can get it's act together, perhaps they will produce something that will get me to give up the third pedal. But they certainly don't have anything today that fits that bill.
All they use is automatics, at least for the two day performance school. They said that they ended up replacing too many clutches, so they have been 100% auto for quite a while.
So - no bribes needed.
The IS-F is based on the rear-wheel-drive Lexus IS, which is equipped with a double-wishbone front and multi-link rear suspension. The IS-F engine is mated to the world’s first eight-speed "direct sport-shift" transmission. A new torque-converter lock-up control was developed that allows for a direct, crisp gear change through the constant lock-up of the torque converter in second through eighth gears.
In Drive mode, the IS-F transmission performs smoothly, and the torque converter allows for quick 0-60 acceleration in less than 4.9 seconds. The transmission also features a manual mode operated via a pair of paddles. Downshifts are accompanied by automated throttle blips to match engine RPM to vehicle speed. Heavy-duty Brembo brakes with 14.2-inch discs and six-piston calipers ensure all the power is kept under control. The IS-F features custom-designed 19-inch forged alloy wheels — with 225/40R19 sized rubber up front and 255/35R19 at the rear — as standard.
Lexus claims the IS-F can hit a top speed of over 185 mph but the Japanese-spec IS-F will be electronically limited to about 110 mph. Lexus failed to address why the IS-F is limited to such a low speed as the car will undoubtedly be able to hit that speed in the 1/4 mile.
Seems to me the future "sports" cars will receive AT's that are progressivley more competent. Chevy is working on a 2-clutcher for the 2012 'Vette.
Regards,
OW
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/13548/tested-2007-bmw-335i-coupe-auto- matic.html
"Maybe BMW got bored of hearing the same thing over and over again, because suddenly we had to come up with new words to describe the 3: controversially styled, technologically overwrought, and now this: quicker with the automatic.
Fantastic as an Automatic
Yes, the 335i’s ZF-sourced six-speed automatic is among the world’s very best transmissions, and we can’t heap enough praise on it. Responsive and quick to act, it is the perfect autobox for this kind of car. In normal automatic mode, shifts are virtually invisible, but the character changes dramatically when prompted. Deputy editor Dave VanderWerp says, “Full-throttle downshifts are quite severe, but to me, that’s fine when I’m pushing the pedal all the way to the floor. The automatic generally does a single multigear kickdown instead of stopping off at other ratios along the way.” We also noted snappy rev-matching throttle blips when downshifting using the manumatic function (or paddles), and in the sport-shift mode, it eagerly takes the liberty of automatically downshifting during braking to set you higher in the meat of the power band whenever your right foot returns to the other pedal."
Exhibit B: Regarding the 6speed M5
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12144/2007-audi-s6-vs-2007-bmw-m5-vs-200- 7-mercedes-benz-e63-amg.html
"Would you be surprised to hear that this doesn’t have a positive effect on acceleration? Or lap times on the Streets of Willow? Or making a hot exit from a slow corner? Of course you wouldn’t. Because that’s precisely what happens. This M5 was a half-second slower to 60 mph than the SMG version we tested in January 2006 — 4.7 versus 4.2 — and a half-second slower through the quarter-mile: 13.0 seconds at 114 mph versus 12.5 at 118. DSC also inhibited lane-change performance (60.8 mph versus 65.6) and skidpad results (0.83 lateral g versus 0.89)."
Both articles seem to refute the claim that MTs significantly outperform ATs, and with the rapidity of technological evolution, how far out can the virtual extinction of the third pedal be. I have yet to try the audi dsg, however, I have a feeling that it may speed the inevitable demise of MTs in performance vehicles.
-Getz
Things have changed in the past 5 years, many offers auto as an option - a complete reverse of what we have here.
I drove my first automatic when I moved to the US some years ago. While I like manual better for certain reasons, I enjoy AT for convenience. An SMG would be ideal, but Steptronic will do...
I actually like luxury and really good handling, it just depends on the car. In the case of the 3, I decided to go for the go-kart feel. It's super smooth on good roads, but does get bumpy when the roads are in bad shape. Since you had the 330 SP, you will know exactly what I mean.
Good luck.
Dan
Again, only from my experience with the previous generation 5-series, "comfort" and "sport" were two very different seats. The comfort had multiple adjustments and was more "soft" for lack of a better term. The sport seats were more Recaro like in design and side bolstering, both in the seat and shoulders. Overweight people would love the comfort seats, but would have a tough time fitting into the sport seats.
And when you think about it, it makes sense. The whole point of a sport seat is to cradle the driver behind the wheel. The Comfort seat has way more adjustability for cradling which means it would actually make a better sport seat than the Sport seat. Or you could just look at it as a highly adjustable sport seat.
Sorry, I have to disagree. Again, based upon the previous 5 series, the comfort seat was of significantly "softer" construction and did not have the degree of side, shoulder and thigh bolstering of the sport seat. For some preferring a softer feel, the comfort seat might be better, but for those wanting a true Recarro style sport seat, the comfort seat was not nearly as form fitting. The only thing missing from the sport seat was a 5 point harness.
And, FWIW, "20 way adjustable" isn't the metric for sport. My former Honda S2000 had exceptionally good, comfortably, form fitting sport seats. And no power adjustments, whatsoever. Manual forward and back and manual seatback angle. That was it. If you happened to have a 36"+ waist or extra 30 lbs in your rear, forget it. But if you were 6'2" or under and of reasonable athletic build, they were every bit as good as the power, multi-adjustable sport seats in my 911.
I don't think most people buying a 5 series, with the exception of the 550i 6-speed or M5, would be too distraught over the loss of the sport seat option, if in fact that's the current situation. But they were my personal favorites in any sedan.
I am.
I'm getting the 535i SP, and if I could switch for the sport seats in the 335i I would. The ones in the 5 are nice (the side bolsters are good), but I like the ones in the 3 better since they have adjustable thigh side bolsters.
Having both would be perfect.
Regards,
OW
I am new to this forum and have been reading the old entries for the last hour, mostly to see what the low-down on the 335i is...
I leased my first BMW in 1/07... a black/black 335i sedan with manual/SP/PP/satelite radio/cold weather... I absolutely love the car. A bit snug with 2 car seats in the back, but that is a rare occurance... mom's car is usually used for family outings.
The performance is impressive... so far the only car I have bowed down to from street start is the senior partner's '07 m5 with the M button pushed (500hp).. and he looked suprised when I was just a few feet behind him at 50mph... (losers so far: numerous Mustangs, 911 cabrio (that was fun... VERY shocked look on his face at the next light), Audi RS4 (a tie), 540i manual).
Finally a tech question... anybody else have to add oil prior to one year change interval? I figured I would have to, but it felt very soon (after 5k miles).
Keep up the good forum, guys!
P.S. Anybody know when the Dinan chip for the 335i is being released? I heard the N54 engine (in the 335i) was seen in a Z4 in Europe, putting out >400hp... is this true?
Anybody with small kids?
I know this is not a family car but for a father that has to pick up kids from school twice a week I would like to know.
A quart in 5K miles is completely normal. I've had Bimmers that used less than 1/2 quart in 8K miles, and I've had another that has used a quart every 2K-2.5K since new. I would consider changing the oil ever 7.5K, as I'm hearing that the twin turbo engine is pretty hard on oil.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
If you did it on a track, as long as you did not over rev in any gear, the engine is fine. The tires are also freshly broken in after 500 miles so you are ok.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Regards,
OW
While it is true that "some people" say not to do that to your new car, the fact that the BMW engineers that designed and built your car say it too (check your manual of you don't believe me) means that YES it is indeed not good to exceed 100 mph on a car with only 500 miles on it. FWIW, the normal BMW break-in mileage is 1,200 miles, after which you can gradually increase your top speed.
Best Regards,
Shipo
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Some of my friends take long European vacations so that their new ED BMW will be broken-in. After that, they hit the autobahnen in anger- as the Brits say
With the turbo engines I'd want to follow Munich's break-in regimen to the letter, especially in light of the oil dilution issues some cars are experiencing.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive