BMW 335i 2007+

nc72689 · November 2007

I bought my 335i. Well I did it on the freeway at about 10 at night so yea...so is it actually bad for the car? Cause I love my car, and dont really want to damage it when its like brand new... >< So what exactly does break in do? What if you didnt break the car in yet?

roadburner · November 2007

so is it actually bad for the car?

Yes.

Cause I love my car, and dont really want to damage it when its like brand new...

Well, you should have read your owners manual BEFORE you put the pedal to the metal. The manual describes the correct break-in procedure.

So what exactly does break in do?

The purpose of the break-in procedure is to ensure that the bearings and the piston rings/cylinder bores wear in properly. This is particularly important for the N52 engine because the direct fuel injection and turbocharging put extra loads on the rings and cylinder bores. Proper break-in procedures also assists the gearbox and final drive(s) internals to establish proper wear patterns.

Finally, if you want to drive 135, start attending BMW CCA Drivers Schools and learn the proper way to drive fast- in a safe and controlled environment.

nc72689 · November 2007

When I turn on the car and not start up the engin (which is when i press the start buttom twice) the "service engin soon" light shows up. It doesnt show when Im driving the car...is this normal?

roadburner · November 2007

is this normal?

Yes.

fedlawman · November 2007

When did BMW stop providing owner's manuals?!?! :surprise:

roadburner · November 2007

When did BMW stop providing owner's manuals?!?!

LOL!!!

circlew · November 2007

When they started leasing!

Now, the engine is cooked!

Regards,
OW

roadburner · November 2007

I was on another board when a guy asked a question; I told him that the answer was in the owners manual. He replied that he didn't have time to look it up.
I informed him that I didn't have time to respond to people who had the answers literally at their fingertips.

Now, the engine is cooked!

Probably not, but who knows? Harsh treatment early on can never help. I remember that when I picked up my Club Sport the salesperson told me that the car will want to play, but that it was my duty to resist temptation until the break-in period was over...

circlew · November 2007

That is a knowledgeable salesperson. I resisted the same in this BMW for the break in period despite the lease. I intend to give it back in outstanding shape so the next owner can enjoy it for many, many miles. That is as satisfying to me as getting into the next experience.

RTFM is what everyone should aspire to.

Regards,
OW

roadburner · November 2007

I intend to give it back in outstanding shape so the next owner can enjoy it for many, many miles. That is as satisfying to me as getting into the next experience.

I have a reputation for being obsessive about proper vehicle maintenance, and it has paid off. In late 2005 I was looking to sell my my wife's 130K 1997 528iA. Carmax offered $5000. I wound up selling the car to another customer of my BMW indie shop for $10,000. When I had my M6 for sale, a fellow CCA member gave me a $5,000 deposit without even driving it. He came back the next day with the balance and drove away.

circlew · November 2007

That is what I would refer to as pride of ownership. It pays off in more than monetary terms. Good on you!

Regards,
OW

nyccarguy · November 2007

As far as owning a car, breaking in the engine, transmission, brakes... is one of the most important things as far as I'm concerned. A little over 5 and a half years ago when I bought my '01 Prelude, I kept the revs below 4K, didn't use the cruise control, and avoided mashing the gas pedal. I'm sure that has a little to do with how well the car is holding up today.

In contrast, before I bought my Prelude, I leased a 2000 Saab 9-3. After delivery, the dealer told me to take it easy on the car for the first 500 miles (keep it around 55-60 max). I pulled out of the dealership and crept along the side of the road (Rte 17 in NJ, a very busy highway) for about 50 feet, hit the sport button (it was a slushbox), waited for my slot to open up, and dropped the hammer. I looked down and realized I was going 90+ before I let up (this began my love affair with the turbocharger). I wonder how that car's holding up now?

kyfdx · November 2007

... yet, I'd bet that running a 335i up to 135 mph is unlikely to cause any future problems, even with only 500 miles..

Assuming that it wasn't red-lined to get up to that speed of course.. How high do you think a 335i is taching at 135 mph? 5000 RPM? I wouldn't worry about it.

regards,
kyfdx
visiting host

fedlawman · November 2007

Exactly what I was thinking. Whether you're going 135 MPH in 6th gear or 40 MPH in 2nd gear, the engine doesn't know the difference.

It's not the speed that's bad, it's how you got up there...

roadburner · November 2007

It's not the speed that's bad, it's how you got up there...

True enough, but I also suspect that anyone who drives a new car 135 on the street has likewise become "up close, and personal" with the redline as well...

nc72689 · November 2007

Well what exactly is red lined? And here is the story... One night I was driving home on the freeway. I went to about 130 mph+ 2 times. The first time i wasnt aware of it, I was just trying to pass someone and all of a sudden I realized Im going 130 mph! I was surprised on how fast the car accelerates... After that I wanted to try how fast the car can go...cause I heard by the law cars can go up to like 120 mph - 140 mph and it will be stopped even if the car can go faster. I let the cars in front of me to clear up then I stepped on the gas till the car cant go any faster...which is 135 mph. I drive automatic btw...

serranot · November 2007

"Oh, and although RPM's in getting up to 135 are certainly important, the suggestion that 135 in top gear is really the same as 40 in 2nd or 3rd is just a little off base. Just based upon wind resistence alone, the engine power required to maintain 135 is roughly 11.4 times what is required to maintain 40. That's a poopload of demand on an engine that is far from broken in. Period."

Yep. A buttload more cylinder pressure at the same rpm. RPM is not the only factor.

Regards,
Tom

roadburner · November 2007

Sorry to sound sarcastic, but I too have heard from enough different and highly qualified experts to appreciate that proper break in for a brand new high performance engine is about the most important thing an owner can do (or, conversely, royally screw up) for the longevity of the car. Add twin turbos to the mix and you also double the importance of proper break in.

I agree completely. Frankly, I'm still not convinced that Munich has the N54 turbo motor fully sorted yet. I'm primarily concerned about the reports that some cars are wearing out their oil in under 2000 miles. With the 15,000 mile oil change interval, I'm not too enthusiastic about picking up a car just off lease.

circlew · November 2007

Well what exactly is red lined?

It's the line on your tachometer that tells you "Please keep the needle under this line" or you'll do something to the motor you might regret!

Think of it as a dead line.

Regards,
OW

kyfdx · November 2007

I didn't catch the automatic part of it before... I'd guess the car was near red-line on the way up, as the transmission would downshift, given any substantial throttle input....

Mr_Shiftright · November 2007

I'd like to see manufacturers put little $$$$ just over the redline on the tach dial.

roadburner · November 2007

In 1996 I made a "money shift" (3rd to 2nd) in my ti during a track session. I saw the needle go past 8500 before I stabbed the clutch(the redline is 7500). I pulled into the pits and everything seemed fine. I later talked to a guy who club raced a ti and he told me that he once saw 9000 on a missed shift and yet the engine lasted well past the end of the season. In my case, the M42 four-banger has since passed 112K miles and it's still going strong. This was one time that I was glad I hadn't bought an E36 M3; hit 8000 rpm on an S52 engine and you are guaranteed to receive a bunch of bent valves...

Mr_Shiftright · November 2007

I think a redline in neutral and under power would have different effects though.

Fact is, you never know. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes it bends, and sometimes the grief comes later on in the engine's life.

Depends a lot on internal engine design, and metallurgy, too.

you could rev old 60s Alfas up that high, too.

circlew · November 2007

Yeah, I'm used to the US 5,500 red line....when I got into this 3'er, it scared me at 6G's. I am always religious in the red line limit but I'm sure in competition it's bound to break over the line at some point, specifically to the neophytes.

I believe most modern automatics limit the shifts below red line at full throttle but correct me if I'm wrong. The point of this tread was adherence break-in procedure. You shouldn't be floor-boarding the gas before the end of the recommended session!

Even a CPO inspection will not hint at previous over-revving conditions. Unless they test internal clearances and metal strength, it's a crap shoot. I assume in the future a computer can track those events to tip off the unsuspecting customer.

Regards,
OW

roadburner · November 2007

Back when Erik Wensberg was NA's M Brand manager he told me about a guy who had his new E36 M3 towed to his dealer- with a seriously blown engine. The guy claimed his new Bimmer "just died" while he was cruising down the interstate(his prior car was an Oldsmobile, BTW). It turns out that the E36 M3's ECU records the highest rpm reached by the engine. When they interrogated the ECU it showed 9000 rpm. Guess who's warranty claim was denied?

circlew · November 2007

Great story. I knew they kept tabs on you somehow. The guy should have gotten a rev limiter. Better luck next time. I fail to see the need to go to red line in the first place. I had a Honda V45 that could do 9500rips but I never even got close. I love the guys that used to brag on how far past red line they took their engines! What a shame!

Regards,
OW

roadburner · November 2007

The guy should have gotten a rev limiter.

That car had a fuel cutoff, but this guy shifted from 3rd to 2nd and caused a mechanical over-rev.

nc72689 · November 2007

So will an automatic car pass the red line or it will switch gear automatically before that?

kyfdx · November 2007

It will upshift... You can't really exceed red-line in an automatic..

rayainsw · November 2007

"It will upshift... You can't really exceed red-line in an automatic.."

Or bounce off the rev limiter...

habitat1 · November 2007

The RPM limit you should have been adhering to during break in is far below red line.

I'm not sure what BMW recommends, but on my 911, with a 7,200 RPM redline, you are instructed not to exceed 4,200 RPM for the first 800 miles. With my former Honda S2000, with a 9,000 RPM redline, the break in limit was 5,000 RPM. So if you floored the 335i, my guess is that it went right up to redline before shifting and about 3,000 rpm past where you should have been.

Why don't you take a minute and look at the owner's manual?

shipo · November 2007

The break-in DNE (Do Not Exceed) recommendations for my 530i were 100 mph and 4500 rpms. I'm quite sure that the 335i and 535i recommendations are reasonably similar.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nc72689 · November 2007

Ok so far the answers I got for my question (Is going 135 mph with my 500 miles AUTOMATIC 335i bad for the car?) And the answers I got so far are different...some people say the car can handle it so its no harm...and some people say yes its bad for the car. Well what I got from the dealer is...if nothing happens with the car after doing that then Im fine. Well...I love my car so I dont want to do any PERMANENT damage to my car...like losing hp or something... If its no harm then of course...Im happy. If its bad for the car...can the problem be fixed or repaired with money? Or is the problem permanent? If it is then I will be so mad at myself. Please help me out with my question...thanks! >< PS: Thx for all you guys' great and helpful answers. I really appreciate it.

circlew · November 2007

Please give more detail regarding the way you reached the 135 mph. Was it as fast as you could get there or did you build speed in top gear?

Regards,
OW

shipo · November 2007

I'd say that there's an odds on bet that you've compromised the engine's ability to properly break in, especially at the ring/cylinder wall interface, and as such you're probably going to experience somewhat higher oil consumption and a bit lower horsepower than a similar car with a properly borken in engine. Can the damage be reversed? Of course, however, I'm thinking that you're talking five figures for that kind of a repair.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx · November 2007

"Or bounce off the rev limiter... "

That's the way I like my manu-matics... but, I don't think many are made that way, any more.... Most of them just upshift when they get to red-line..

As far as our original poster damaging his car? While it wasn't a very good idea to do 135, especially if you red-lined it getting up there.... I'd say the chances are slim that you did any damage... Now.. .the chances of your car having damage are exponentially greater than someone that has followed the proper break-in procedures.. But, I still think that chance is very, very small.. Don't do it again, and relax..

Not an expert... just my $0.02...

regards,
kyfdx
visiting host

tayl0rd · November 2007

... If its bad for the car...can the problem be fixed or repaired with money? ...

No, I'm pretty sure it will require the correct parts. Money will either burn up or blow right out of the engine bay as soon as you start moving. :P

Seriously, though. With the right amount of money, there's almost no limit to what can be fixed/repaired. It just comes down to whether or not it's actually worth the cost of the repairs.

nc72689 · November 2007

Well I was on the freeway at night. I waited for the cars in front of me to clear up, at that time I guess Im going about 60-80. After the cars cleared up I stepped on the gas till the car cant go any faster. After I reached top speed I slowly slow down the car to normal speed. Im very careful about the breaks... BTW to the people that say if I dont red line the car then Im fine...well, I drive AUTOMATIC so that means I cant red line it, so does that mean Im ok?

shipo · November 2007

Dude, open your Owner's Manul up and check the index for "Break-in". I'm sure that you'll find that it says do not exceed 100 mph (plus or minus a few) AND do not exceed 4500 rpms. Slice it and dice it anyway you want, you exceeded both DNEs. Yes, no?

Best Regards,
Shipo

ivan_99 · November 2007

to the people that say if I dont red line the car then Im fine...well, I drive AUTOMATIC so that means I cant red line it, so does that mean Im ok?

Heh...if the car has a 7000rpm red line and you go to 6800 that's red line enough for a new engine.

I'm sure it's fine...do a compression test in a couple years and if it's good...then it's good.

spiritinthesky · November 2007

After the cars cleared up I stepped on the gas till the car cant go any faster. After I reached top speed I slowly slow down the car to normal speed. Im very careful about the breaks... BTW to the people that say if I dont red line the car then Im fine...well, I drive AUTOMATIC so that means I cant red line it, so does that mean Im ok?

This whole series of questions and responses is going from the sublime to the absurd. Here's what you need to do:

(1) Read the damn owner's manual. You obviously can read, or you wouldn't be posting here. But what the heck is your problem with learning what to do or not before you do it?

(2) Learn how to read a tachometer. You know, that round dial next to the speedometer that you appear to be infatuated with? It shows you where the redline is and what rpms you were going. Do you have any clue as to what you hit in rpms?

(3) Keep the car below 4,500 rpm and 100 mph until you have 1,000 miles on the odometer.

What you have done is the equivalent to eating 5 pounds of bacon in one sitting, a few times. Are you going to have a heart attack at some point? Maybe, maybe not. But it's sure not good for your ability to run a marathon. So do a little research before you act the next time rather than search the internet for anyone who will respond as to whether or not your actions caused damage.

The dealer that told you "if nothing happens no problem" should be shot. Of course nothing will happen today if you screwed up the break in yesterday. The whole purpose of proper break in is for the long term performance and durability of the engine. And trust me, the 335i engine, with twin turbos, should be broken in properly. Screw up break in on a GM and it would be hard to tell. My M5 mechanic can drive a BMW with 50k miles and tell within a few percent what the compression is running at, before a test.

Lastly, quit being very careful about the "breaks" while you should be worried about "breaking" your engine. That's like washing the bacon down with diet coke. BMW covers brakes in their maintenance plan. But when you're burning oil at 50,000 miles, and don't have quite the acceleration you should have, you are on your own.

Can we move on now?

kdshapiro · November 2007

That's like washing the bacon down with diet coke

And what's wrong with a Big Mac and fries, washed down with a diet coke..caffeine free of course? :blush

tayl0rd · November 2007

Nothing.

Every little bit helps.

pat · November 2007

I'm thinking we've been all the, ah, help we can in this situation and maybe it's time to cross the bridge to a new topic if you get my drift.

kdshapiro · December 2007

335 with Dinan Flash

"3rd Run, 331 whp and 361 lbs tq"

Woot. Wonder about the effects on the drivetrain.

spud07 · December 2007

I just purchased a 335 coupe and was wondering if anyone has found an invisacord for the Valentine One radar detector. I used the invisacord in my 2000 Vette but don't see the BMW 335 listed on the invisacord web page. It sure is much better than having to use the standard power cord. Is anyone using something similar to invisacord in the 335?

mdkrp · January 2008

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone has any experience with storing golf clubs/soft bag in the new 335 convertible with the top down using the pass through bag going through the rear seat center.
My local dealer does not have any cars with the pass through bag option so I can't see for myself.

Thanks for any insight.
mdkrp

jmaroun · January 2008

Will the M Sports package be available for the 335i coupe/sedan in the United States???? If anyone knows, please provide information about this.

What is the difference between the Sports Package which is available in the states compared to the M Sports Package that is available in Europe?

I also noticed on the bmwusa.com website that you can build your 335 with Sports Package and also add an "Appearance Package".. Do these two packages add up to be the same as the M Sports Package in Europe.

I'd appreciate clarification on this. One thing the 335i needs is a bit more spice. Judging by pictures available on the net from Europe of the M Sports Package and the Appearance package on bmwusa.com, the exterior front bumper mod look identical, but the rear modifications look different. Also the M Sport Package boast the //M symbol on the steering wheel. I don't think the appearance package on bmwusa.com provides any Interior modifications.

Thanks for any input on this,

Joseph
San Diego

flightnurse · January 2008

Joseph, I think you could get your answers faster at the BMW dealer. But one tihng you have to remember is, in Europe BMW cars are not as well equiped as ours. The Aerodynamic package add the front airdam from the last M car, so I would assume its just a apperance thing, the sport package is just the typical sport package that BMW has offered over the years. If you haven't driven a 335i with the sport package, you might not want anything more "sporty" as it had a very hard ride. In Europe they really love the HARD ride for some reason..

fedlawman · January 2008

The M Sport "package" in Europe is basically an appearance package. It typically includes an M Sport steering wheel, other unique interior trim, and exterior aerodynamic ground-effects.

I don't know how aerodynamic the ground-effects truly are, but you're really not missing anything from a performance standpoint.

BMW 335i 2007+

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles