Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

BMW 335i 2007+

1131416181927

Comments

  • 06ltd06ltd Member Posts: 25
    Thanks very much for your post.

    I was told it would include all-weather tires, and, while I'm not (ahem) entirely happy with that, I've put together a package that is certainly a bunch of compromises. It really is a curious mix of options.

    The dealer told me that the difference in gas mileage should be about 2 MPG, which comports with what I read on line. If the weight difference is similar to the 328 difference, it should be about 200 lbs.; enough to notice, certainly.

    I am interested in your friend's experience, though. If there really is a reliable way to do this without going the xi route, I would seriously consider it.

    As for resale, it's hard to imagine that there will be a poor resale market for that car, but - who knows? Audi's Quattros sell well even in the sporty lines.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Exactly, AWD is a poor substitute for driving ability.

    IMO, it opens up a whole new way to drive. It's not about the nannies. This thing (330xi) holds on like glue. Professional drivers need water and very aggressive steering maneuvers to break AWD cars loose to "hang it out" around the track. Less fun, but it is what it is.

    For the general public, it is a good way for peace of mind, IMO.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Well, perhaps since the 335ix sport package comes with "all season" tires, you wouldn't need to go with winter tires for your driving.

    I don't know where you live in Maryland and how much/frequently it snows. But we live in DC, about to move to Maryland and, if I were replacing my Acura TL today, it would likely be with a RWD 3 or 5 series. And we have family in snow belt Pennsylvania and Maine. But we also have an MDX that would get used on most winter trips.

    My point - and I certainly respect circlew's alterntative opinion - is that the 335ci with sport package is the sportiest, and most performance oriented 3 series. If I thought I might encounter a few, or even several, days of snow a year, I'd still be personally inclined to go with an extra set of winter wheels and tires. Or maybe take my chances and drive carefully or use another vehicle for the worst weatehr. I just don't think having an AWD system on a "sport coupe" that will lower fuel economy, make it feel less nimble (certanily compared to a RWD model with the more "serious" sport package) all year is a worthwhile the trade off. I might feel a little differently if I was getting a non-sport 335ix sedan. I also think that extra 200 lbs, on a 3 series coupe that some would say is already pushing the scales too hard, is a bigger deal than it would be on a more "sedate" sedan.

    As far as my friend's experience, he and his wife also have an SUV to drive in the winter. But he did move here from the Pitssburgh area and he used his 328cic enough during the winter there to justify getting a hard top for the car. So every November, the summer wheels/tires came off, the winter ones went on and the hard top went on. Come early March, flopped out.

    Good luck whichever way you go.
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    road & track did a test sometime back of 2wd + snows versus AWD + all-season tires. They tested handling in snow/ice, climbing, braking, etc.

    The only test where AWD+all-seasons beat 2wd+snows was in climbing a snowy/icy hill, and the difference was not radical. Predictablaly, 2wd+snows did better in handling in icy weather as well as stopping.

    I don't understand the logic behind the vast majority of AWD purchases. All they're doing in most cases is helping themselves accelerate more quickly in unsafe conditions. Back in new mexico, is was usually the AWD SUV's that ended up off the road when snow hit. Yeah, they could pick up speed faster, but it's not going to help with that curve ahead..
  • dan12dan12 Member Posts: 114
    Not that I plan to do this... but is it possible to put chains on a 335i with the sport package? That might be a better option than buying snow tires for a few days of snow per year. Also, if I ever took my car to the mountains, chains are sometimes required. I decided that I would stick to an SUV for the mountains, so I opted out of the xi. But it would be nice to know if I could take the car up with chains if I absolutely had to.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    You would understand if you experienced the difference, IMO. The car is just so much more planted than the RWD. Yes, RWD, will most likely handle better depending on the brand/suspension tuning but in this BMW xi, it really does help that curve up ahead during acceleration when the weather is not cooperating.

    Believe me, if I lived in So. Cal or NM, (San Diego, preferably) it would be the 335i for me. But I, for one, am willing to make the trade-off in dry performance in the North East.

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    You would understand if you experienced the difference, IMO. The car is just so much more planted than the RWD.

    What you call "more planted" I define as benign understeer. The Xi's responses feel a bit more lethargic than the RWD 3ers- which are already about 500 pounds overweight. And the RWD 3er is fitted with a DSC that is much too intrusive as it is. Look, BMW NA wants market share, and they know that the US driving public has been dumbed down to the point that many people need to wear Depends at the mere thought of driving a RWD car in anything other than a desert climate. The BMW engineers admit that their current crop of AWD 3ers aren't the hot ticket, why else do you think that the Xi "Sport Package" is simply an appearance package- offering merely different seats and wheels? All that being said, I can understand why someone might want an AWD sled if they faced severe winter weather on a continual basis- and could only own one car. However, if driving a RWD car in the rain causes one to break out in a cold sweat, I suggest that they not buy a car at all- and instead use the money for bus/subway tokens.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "I suggest that they not buy a car at all- and instead use the money for bus/subway tokens."

    Or get a Subaru.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    For me, it's nice to have the high speed capability in the snow and a RWD for summer. That is my goal. The car I am thinking of will cause 99% of the driving public to faint during acceleration and make their Depends explode.

    BTW, I stand by my previous statement the the suspension results in this car are better than the non-SP 330/335i.

    It's not like the xdrive is a disaster. When you push it, it stays pushed, that's all...regardless of weather. You use a tool for the right application and to each his own tool.

    BTW, the sport package is worth it just for the seats.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    "You would understand if you experienced the difference, IMO. The car is just so much more planted than the RWD"

    I have experienced the diference, both on the street and on the track.

    I think the belief in some circles that AWD is so much more planted is due to avertising. Improved handling would be seen in skidpad results and slalom, and it's just not there.

    "But I, for one, am willing to make the trade-off in dry performance in the North East. "

    But trading it away for what? Unless you have snow tires, you haven't inceased your incliment performance & safety.
  • xeyexeye Member Posts: 168
    Hi,

    Well,

    From June 26th order to in the driveway tonight! New 335xi, and it's gorgeous! The web site still says it's Produced not Shipped. My $0.02 on the handling? I think roadburner has a death wish. Although I just got the wheels and haven't taxed them yet, I can't possibly see what has roadburner's testosterone at such a boil. You'd have to push this car very hard to even begin to see the difference in handling, and when push comes to shove, I'll take the xi any day, summer or winter.

    The stereo is fantastic, the controls are intuitive and the seats are great (Sport, Premium, Cold Weather, PDC, Manual Tranny)). The engine (understatement of the year) is amazing.

    BTW,

    I got the Continental Pro Contact (no Bridgestones here) tires I wanted, but very surprisingly, no oil cooler. I did not get the 18" tires and no sport suspension due to the x-drive, but I certainly expected the oil cooler. Interestingly enough, the oil temp gauge now max's out at 340 degrees, not 300. I will be calling BMW to see abnout having the dealer install the oil cooler at their expense. I had the sales rep call out a tech and he suggested calling BMW as he has done a couple of after-sale installations.

    We'll see.

    No doubt in my mind so far - this car is worth every penny.

    Also, for those of you getting invoice pricing from Edmunds, I was "informed" today that 2 charges that the dealers absorb that is not in the MSRP are MACO ($250) and a Training/Service fee ($180). I don't know what incentives or rebates the dealer may get to offset these charges, but it makes the invoice price higher. If it's true, I paid $1,095 over invoice. I consider that in the "not bad" category.

    I think the MACO may be unique to Massachusetts,...er,..Taxachusetts.

    When I get 1,201 miles, I'll post again when I can drive this beast seriously.

    Regards,

    xeye
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "But trading it away for what? Unless you have snow tires, you haven't inceased your incliment performance & safety."

    We could certainly get into the whole AWD thing, but I do disagree with that statement. AWD with very good all-seasons beat snow tires in some aspects. If you consider safety as not getting stuck in very deep snow, IMO AWD wins.

    Stopping snow tires would probably be better. You trade off one thing for another. I used to do snow tires with RWD and I feel the car has more control with good all-seasons and AWD. I will say it depends on the AWD system. Jeeps have the best bar none (QD II), Subaru AWD is also excellent. Others like the RAV4, which is a front drive based AWD is not as good. YMMV.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Congrats on the car, there is no doubt about it, BMW hit a home run with this car, IMO. I know others like BG think it's a tad isolated and bloated, but to each their own. :)

    Post a pic on carspace.com.
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    "Stopping snow tires would probably be better."

    Probably? It will stop much better; there is no argument about that... It simply has more friction on the sturface. Same applies to turning.
  • 06ltd06ltd Member Posts: 25
    With 2WD and snows, how is the cornering? Many years ago, I had an English sports car that I put radial snows on and the handling was...well, gone.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    With 2WD and snows, how is the cornering? Many years ago, I had an English sports car that I put radial snows on and the handling was...well, gone.

    If you check out Tire Rack, you will find Blizzaks that probably handle better than the best performance tires of 20+ years ago you could have put on your "old English sports car".

    While I respect other's opinions and choices, I have to agree with dhanley that the idea that the "x" versions of the 3-series are more "planted" is mostly good advertising.

    I don't own a BMW. But I did seriously consider the 911 C4S vs. the C2S that I have. The "4" advocates there also talk about it being more "planted". And they have a far better case than BMW. The C4S's added weight is less than BMW's "x" system and that additional weight goes to the front end of the rear heavy C2S. Plus the sport suspension is exactly the same in the AWD vs. RWD and the "4" option gives you 305 width rears in place of my 295's. And yet, with all of that said, I noticed the added weight, less nimble handling, reduced acceleration, and just generally less of a sporty feel. From my more limited drives of the 3 series, I would say that the differences are just as pronounced, if not more so than in the 911, especially given the unavailability of a sport suspension (which I would consider mandatory on a 335ci coupe).

    It really depends on your priorities. I would never contend that the 335ix isn't a very nice car. If handling, weight, nimbleness on dry roads isn't as important to you as having a real or perceived AWD advantage for occasional snow and heavy rain, then that is certainly your choice.

    My personal choice would be to get the car I'd most like to be behind the wheel of 95% of the time, and compromise the other 5% of the miles with more careful driving and/or use of a different vehicle. Or maybe address the 3-4 months of winter with different wheels and tires.
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    I have a 2006 325i with ZSP. I run Bridgestone LM-22 Blizzak runflats in the winter. The handling is less alive and precise than with the summer RE050As but is also more absorbent and less prone to tramlining. The car still handles well and inspires confidence on moderate ice and freezing rain. My car LM-22s did much better than a couple of base suspension cars with EL42s I watched on the same icy hill outside my office, steaming right up the incline with no problem. (An FWD Acura TL and Jag XJ failed and had to reverse down.) Tire pressures as per the owners manual for 16" M&S on ZSP.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I believe the C4S outdoes the RWD in a road course with respect to fastest time.

    I do not doubt the same outcome with the 335xi vs. 335i.

    The AWD version comes off the corners more planted allowing traction to come on early. The RWD is lighter and more agile. I do not doubt the same outcome with the 335xi vs. 335i.

    The rest is a personal choice. In the snow, no contest. T
    That's all there is to it, IMO.

    The Continental all weather tires with xdrive was a fantastic combination last winter. No snows necessary.

    Regards,
    OW
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "t will stop much better; there is no argument about that... It simply has more friction on the sturface. Same applies to turning."

    Disagree. In deep snow having all four wheels contribute to the turn is safer than two, even two with snow tires. My contention is a good full-time AWD like Subaru, with an LSD, will have more control in the snow. Starting, turning. Stopping you may be right, but somehow I've managed to avoid an accident in the snow with AST, so I assume I got the stopping thing down.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... My point - and I certainly respect circlew's alterntative opinion - is that the 335ci with sport package is the sportiest, and most performance oriented 3 series. ...

    Couple questions. Isn't the 335i coupe longer than the sedan? And hasn't the 3-series sedan historically had better weight balance than the coupe? If the answer is "yes" to those questions, wouldn't it mean the sedan is the sportier 3-series?
  • xeyexeye Member Posts: 168
    Hi,

    I pickded up my 335xi last night. The finance guy wanted to sell me a few extras and I'd like your opinions. Normally, I don't go for the extended warranties, etc, but one of them sounds like it might be worth it, that being the Tire & Wheel Protection. It is $895 for 5 years and will pay for replacement of the wheels and tires if: the wheel gets bent, cracked or won't hold air. Dings and scratches aren't covered. Normal wear and tear on the tires isn't covered but road hazard is. With $500 wheels and a couple hundred per tire, I'm thinking it may be a good idea. One wheel and a couple of tires pays for it, especially with the run flats (ContiProContacts). Two wheels (I live in Boston - the pothole capital of the country) and it more than pays for itself. With 225 45 17" tires, there's not a lot of rubber between the road and the wheel.

    They also have prepaid maintenance for an extra 2 years and 50K miles (total 6 years and 100K miles) for $1895. This would include 75K and 90K service plus brake jobs, etc if necessary.

    What do you think? I have to decide by tomorrow.

    xeye
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    "Disagree. In deep snow having all four wheels contribute to the turn is safer than two, even two with snow tires."

    Think about it this way. Your back tires are always pointed forward, so all they're "contributing" to the turn is forward motion, in RWD or AWD setups.

    In either car, the fronts are the tires providing the vector of deflection.

    You are only going to lose cornering when one set of tires loses friction. If it's the fronts, AWD isn't going to help, since the solution would be to take power away from those tires. If it's the rear, both setups will cut power to the rear.

    Therefore, AWD won't help you in a snowy turn unless you're acclerating at the limit of adhesion. Which is probably fun and all, i love rally racing, but this isn't something that happens on public roads often, and not something someone who is concerned about "safety" is doing.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Considering where you will drive, perhaps T&W will pay off. The wheels are ~$250 and Conti's are ~$150/ea. for the 17" All-Weather tires. You have a little more cushion than the 18" performance tires.

    The 2 years extra maintenance depends on how long you keep the car. I would buy this but would question when is the best time, now or towards the end of the 4/yr./50K period.

    Regards,
    OW
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    I believe the C4S outdoes the RWD in a road course with respect to fastest time.

    I do not doubt the same outcome with the 335xi vs. 335i.


    I see two problems with your analogy. In the first place, Porsche -like Mitsubishi with the Evolution and Subaru with its WRX STi- optimizes the AWD system for performance rather than for sure footed winter weather capability- which is BMW's approach. Second, I have yet to see any hard numbers to support the "xi is faster on the track" mantra. I could see the Xi being faster in the hands of a driver with less than stellar driving skills, as the DSC fitted to the xi is designed to step in and save the inept from their ham-handed control inputs.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    xeye,

    FWIW, I purchased the tire and wheel warranty when I bought my '06 330Xi, with 17" wheels. It came with the Turanza EL-42 run flat tires.

    When those tires became too much of a problem, the tire and wheel warranty did not help. The dealer said the tires were cupped because I did not maintain proper inflation, and the Bridgestone dealer said the problem was caused by the car not being in alignment.

    What happened in my case is I replaced the EL-42s with the Continentals, at my own expense, and the dealer ended up reimbursing me the cost of the new tires, but not the mounting, balancing and new alignment costs.

    I traded the 330Xi in for a 535Xi with the standard 17" wheels and GFTs, and I elected to buy the tire and wheel insurance again for peace of mind. But, IIRC, it was only $600.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "You are only going to lose cornering when one set of tires loses friction. If it's the fronts, AWD isn't going to help, since the solution would be to take power away from those tires. If it's the rear, both setups will cut power to the rear."

    In a RWD setup like the BMW 335i, when one back tire losses traction in SNOW the ESC system kicks on, applies to the brakes to the spinning wheel. If there is still wheel slippage engine power is cut.

    On the Subaru AWD system, if one rear wheel losses traction the LSD kicks on and the other wheel now has the torque. If the other rear wheels slip, power is then applied to the front wheels.

    On a start from zero, the Subaru applies torque to the front and rear equally aiding in a smooth takeoff and preventing getting stuck.

    Note the xi can also vary power between front and back, but the 335/328 does not have an LSD.

    With the right AWD safety is enhanced due to ability to keep moving through snow.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I believe the C4S outdoes the RWD in a road course with respect to fastest time.

    Where in the heck are you getting your information? The C2S consistently posts better times on all tracks that I'm aware of, including Nurburgring. You can Google "Nurburgring" and see for yourself. As far as straight line acceleration, the actual road tests show the 325 hp C2 neck and neck with the heavier 355 hp C4S. The C2S is considerably quicker off the line than the C4S. It has been tested as low as 3.9 seconds 0-60. The best I've seen for the C4S is 4.5.

    As further evidence, the 911 GT3 (RWD) spanks the 911 Turbo (AWD) around virtually every track and wins accolades as being far and away the best handling 911. The better track performance of the GT3 is in spite of a 70 horsepower and over 200 ft-lb torque disadvantage to the Turbo.

    But, my point isn't what Michael Schumacher or a Porsche racing team member can do with these cars. It's how they feel to me in "brisk" but sane driving. With respect to the 335i, if you are telling me you can't tell the difference in handling and nimbleness with an extra 200 lbs of weight, a non-sport suspension and lower performance tires, then I have to accept that. But I'm respectfully offering that I sure as hell can tell the difference.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    FWIW,

    I only have one car, and my priority is to have that vehicle offer the best capability for traction in all road conditions all year long. This ranges from local commuting to weekend trips in the West Virginia mountains. My analogy would be choosing a hybrid when buying a bicycle – not as good as either a road bike or mountain bike in their specialty areas, but a better balance across the board.

    Many years ago, before modern winter tires or electronic stability / traction controls, I switched from RWD to FWD for more stability in the ice and snow, everything else being equal. Then, about 5 years ago, I switched from FWD to AWD with the purchase of the first of my three BMW X-Drive sedans.

    I chose AWD as an alternative to FWD, not as an alternative to RWD. I felt AWD would provide better all around performance as well as better traction in adverse road conditions than FWD.

    I did not consider how AWD compares to RWD, and it’s interesting following discussions on this. If BMW did not offer X-Drive, then I would have purchased a different car, such as an Audi Quatro.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Where in the heck are you getting your information?


    Just a Top Gear video with the same professional driver on the same course wit both cars. The results make sense to me.

    link title

    I can tell the difference in the 335i non-SP and the 330xi during back to back driving on the same roads. The 17" Conti RFT tires/profile are exact same all weather setup but the xi stays flatter. I can only presume the suspension difference favors the xi vs non-sp. Like I said way back, I agree the SP on the RWD will prevail.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dan12dan12 Member Posts: 114
    FWIW, I don't plan to buy any of these warranties. In general, BMW will make money on selling these warranties because most people will not use them. I am willing to take the risk and pay for the wheel/tire if I am unlucky enough to hit a pothole. However, if Boston is the pothole capital and you will constantly worry about driving your car and having fun, then I would say go ahead and get the warranty. Alternatively, put $895 in an investment account and use that money as your own personal tire/wheel insurance fund. If you are lucky, you will have an extra $1k at the end of 5 years. :)
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Here's what I'd do: deposit that money in one of the high-yielding online savings account. (GMAC Bank is currently paying 5.3% on its insured money market savings account, for example.) I don't like paying today for services that I might not use for years, thereby allowing someone else to earn interest on my money. In your case, you'd be forfeiting $140 per year, which is what you could earn on the nearly $2800 that your dealer wants you to cough up.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    The 17" Conti RFT tires/profile are exact same all weather setup but the xi stays flatter.

    What do you mean by "flatter"? Increased roll stiffness? If so, thats very interesting, as the 330xi rear anti roll bar is 2mm smaller in diameter than the one fitted to the 335i(13mm vs 15mm), while the front bars are identical, at 26.5mm.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Just a Top Gear video with the same professional driver on the same course wit both cars. The results make sense to me.

    You really need to go into politics. Was it you, or someonw else that clipped that video link before it had time to conclude? :confuse:

    Listen to the conclusion again, you can clearly hear (in response to whether the 4 posted a faster lap time)

    "Yes, by 1/2 second, BUT the (driver) said - and I agree - the 2 wheel drive is still the nicer..CUT". Obviously someone wiht an agenda didn't want us to hear the rest.

    As I recall from seeing the entire video some time ago they concluded the 2 wheel drive was more nimble, better handling, better full straightaway accleration, and generally more fun to drive. The C4S performed well in an indoor rally course with the longest straightaway of about 100 feet where the initial acceleration of the turns favored AWD. But they even refer to the C4S in the video as "heavier and ponderous" around corners. The only advantage it had was in the initial acceleration out of corners, due to putting all of its power to the road. But getting a faster lap time required them to essentially construct a course in which that one advantage was employed to it's maximum potential.

    I don't expect my driving experiences to include an indoor ralleye on a course the size of a football field. For my real world driving, the less "heavy and poderous" RWD is my preference. But thanks for the video, it was entertaining.

    And let's me also put my preference in perspective - I would not kick a C4S out of my garage if one showed up there one night. Same would be true for a 335ix, although I might be tempted to swap it for just the "i".
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I was recently offered the trie and wheel insurance warranty thingy when my wife and I picked up our X3 last week (The finance guy actually tried to tell me that one wheel and one tire would cost over $900 to replace and that at $811 the tire insurance is the best bargain out there). It isn't worth it. We live in NY where thew roads aren't exactly glass smooth. If you hit a pothole and blowout a tire that needs to be replaced (All runflats need to be replaced when punctured). The tire insurance will cover that tire (which will probably be a lot cheaper from the tire rack than from the stealership). You have to replace 2 tires when one goes and the warranty will not cover the second tire.

    Almost $2 grand for extended maintenance seems excessive to me.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "Isn't the 335i coupe longer than the sedan? And hasn't the 3-series sedan historically had better weight balance than the coupe? If the answer is "yes" to those questions, wouldn't it mean the sedan is the sportier 3-series?"

    The coupe body is 3" longer, but they ride on the same wheelbase. The coupe also weighs 11 lbs more.

    I would say that the differences in length and weight are indistinguishable behind the wheel.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    What may not be indistinguishable behind the wheel is body flex. Over the last couple of generations, the 3-Series sedans have been a bit more structurally rigid than the coupes.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nkeennkeen Member Posts: 313
    Dimensions aside, the coupe looks like a big car -- on road presence is more like the 3.0 CSi of yesteryear. Perhaps it should have been called a 4-series after all?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I didn't clip it but thanks for the endorsement!

    I have seen that driver, "The Stig", on Top Gear vids and the guy can really handle any car. I saw him whipping a 5 series at a ridiculous rate but on a perfect line.

    I fully respect your opinion and have huge respect for your expereiences. I also wouldn't kick out a C2S or 335i from my garage if by chance I received such a blessing pro bono. Then, I would probably get a good set of snows for the i or never drive my c2s in the snow.

    For me, the political animal that I am, (NOT), I basically just combined foul weather needs with a sport bias into one choice for me in '06. The experience with this BMW far exceed the bland road dynamics of the ALL-American campaigns that I have been on since I started on the trail!

    I probably will do it again at the end of '08. Then, my dream car will appear in my garage which will be a MT, RWD "something"! That's my vote! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    What may not be indistinguishable behind the wheel is body flex. Over the last couple of generations, the 3-Series sedans have been a bit more structurally rigid than the coupes.

    What is the information basis for that? Intuitively, that doesn't seem to make sense, nor is it consistent with my limited test drives.

    The last and new generation M3 is obviously based upon the coupe "structure". I was told that part of the reason the former 4-door version of the M3 was discontinued is that, with 4 doors to accomodate, it could NOT be made as structurally rigid as a coupe and that BMW wanted to keep the M3 as the performance showcase. Also, from what I read, the center of gravity is higher in the sedan vs. coupe.

    From my test drives, the difference between the coupe and sedan were minimal, but it deed seem to slightly favor the coupe in terms of less body roll around my favorite beltway on-ramp. I was told in 2004 that all of the coupes had a firmer sport suspension than the sedan counterpart, but I'm not sure I trust that salesperson nor do I know if that is still the case. Maybe Top Gear could run a sedan vs. coupe test. ;)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... But I would still expect the coupe, given it's M3 kinship, to get around a track in the hands of a professional faster than the sedan.

    That would make an interesting head-to-head, 335i coupe w/ Sport vs. 335i sedan w/ Sport. Anybody got any connections with some magazine editors/writers? ;)
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    The experience with this BMW far exceed the bland road dynamics of the ALL-American campaigns that I have been on since I started on the trail!

    Amen and congratulations on that.

    Also, FWIW, I have a TL 6-speed as my "not-so-daily" driver. Have only put 4,000 miles on it in the 22 months that I have had a 911, which now is just under 16,000 miles. So in terms of driving dynamics, while I think the TL 6-speed is sporty enough for a family sedan, it doesn't hold a candle to any of the 3-series, RWD or AWD.
  • jo2jo2 Member Posts: 41
    I am a father of one and currently drive an 2006 530i which I love, but the lease is up and I was thinking about getting the 335i. I drove it and it was ridiculously fast but to be honest I almost felt like it was faster than the handling was built for. Anyone have any opinions on this?

    Also has anyone compared the 335 and 528? What are all your opinions on the two? I would consider the 535 but I think its more than I want to spend since its gone up since I bought my 530

    Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    If you prefer driving dynamics first and luxury second, the 335i would be a better fit. You will get a better feel from one of the owners on this thread but IMO, the standard suspension is well within the capability of the power. The trick is to opt for the SP which will provide even more driving control but, again, is performance oriented rather than luxury.

    IMO, since you have a 5'er already, only you can decide whether the room/comfort and driving dynamics suite you in the 5 or rather save some money for the 3.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I have no concrete evidence to point to for support of my comments, except to say that I've read it enough times and from enough different sources the believe that there might just be something to it.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    It seems possible/likely that the coupe was more rigid than the sedan on an older platform, but that this may no longer be true today--or it might not be...

    it is true that the current m3 is stiffened compared to the e92 coupe; bmw put additional reinforcement in the floorpan and made the roof carbon fiber to offset the weight: http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2008/review.html
  • spiritintheskyspiritinthesky Member Posts: 207
    I'm a little late to the discussion, but I see some interesting myths being promoted here that compel me to respond.

    Over the last couple of generations, the 3-Series sedans have been a bit more structurally rigid than the coupes.

    Complete BUNK. The coupes have always been and still are the "tighter" in terms of structural rigidity, body flex and body roll of the two variants.

    Even in the current model, you have to order the sport package on the sedan to get a sport suspension which is still not quite as stiff as the coupes. But more importantly, the coupe is a full 1.7" (3.5%) lower than the sedan, producing a 1/2"+ lower center of gravity. That alone, in the exact same suspension setup, would noticably reduce body roll. In addition, while the B pillar in the sedan has been strenthened to offset the impact, the four door accomodation REDUCES body structure rigidity.

    I have no vested interest or axe to grind here. I own a 2003 M5 sedan. My nephew owns a 335i sedan, with sport package. A couple of weeks ago, we went to a "Friday at the Track" event and got an opportunity to drive a 335i coupe back to back. There is NO question, that the coupe is tighter around the corners, and exhibits less body roll. In the case of a 335i sedan without the sport package, the difference would be even more pronounced.

    Understand, please, that after at least 5 trips to the BMW factory, I can say with confidence that many BMW engineers, especially the oldtimers, gripe about the "American market" that forced BMW to increase the size and weight of the 3-series and add 2 more doors way back in the 1980's. Their "pure" 3 series would be a lighter weight, lower and smaller coupe. Period.
    ______________________

    The second myth is that AWD is better than RWD with respect to performance.

    That is a little harder to debunk, because it first requires and agreement as to what is "better" and even what is "performance". But it seems that some AWD advocates are suggesting that, not only does it improve performance when road conditions reduce traction, but in all road conditions. Again, I would say "BUNK".

    And again, as a 2007 911 Turbo owner, I obviously don't have a vested interest in promoting RWD. But I can assure you that if the Turbo came in a RWD version (which it effectively will with the release of the GT2), I'd have paid MORE for it. My recent experiences with a GT3 on a track confirmed that desire.

    In the case of otherwise identical cars, AWD is a "foul wheather" advantage, and a performance disadvantage at all other times that traction is not an issue. You can't overcome the added weight and loss of drivetrain efficiency without having a slippery surface on your side.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    In the case of otherwise identical cars, AWD is a "foul wheather" advantage, and a performance disadvantage at all other times that traction is not an issue. You can't overcome the added weight and loss of drivetrain efficiency without having a slippery surface on your side.

    I totally agree...but IMO, sometimes you get faster results on a given track/road course with AWD vs. RWD which, I agree, is not pretty!

    And when the slippery surface is on your side, it's unbelievable in the 3'er!

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Complete BUNK. The coupes have always been and still are the "tighter" in terms of structural rigidity, body flex and body roll of the two variants."

    Thanks for the correction. As I stated in a follow up post, I have no real concrete evidence to point to to back up my statement, just anecdotal postings from other folks that I had never seen contradicted. You seem to have taken care of that in one swell foop, so thanks again. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • xeyexeye Member Posts: 168
    Interesting, and authoritatively stated. The one thing that everyone seems to miss, though, is a reference point. The Empire State Building may be "more structurally rigid" that the Chrysler Building, but who cares? The handling of both the 335i and the 335xi (which I drive) are both super. You'd have to push both way beyond reasonable, not to mention legal, limits before either one would falter. Given that, I'll take the exceptional handling AND safety of the xDrive any day. So, I can only go 130 mph. BFD!!

    To be honest, if you're driving at the limits you complain about on U.S. public roads, I don't want you anywhere near me. I am exceptionally happy with my 335xi because I can maneuver around, and out-accelerate, 99% of the vehicles on the road today. Isn't that plenty good enough?
  • 06ltd06ltd Member Posts: 25
    It certainly should be good enough. How has your mileage been - low, high, average?
This discussion has been closed.