BMW 335i 2007+

shipo · September 2007

Ummm, $5,000 for winter rubber and wheels? Where did that number come from?

I just configured up a mounted set of 225/45 HR17 Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 tires and 17x7" Sport Edition E2 wheels for $1,040 on the TireRack web site. FWIW, given the price of replacement OEM rubber, I've found that it is actually CHEAPER to run winter tires part of the year (assuming you opt for the Sport Package). After all, every mile driven on the winter set pushes back the time when you'll need to replace the factory tires.

Case in point, with my 530i SP I managed to (just) go the full three years of my lease on the original tires because of the miles that I didn't put on the factory tires while the winter set was mounted. Given that replacement tires are nearly $900 per set (plus mounting and balancing, figure an even $1,000 for the replacement), one set of those was nearly the same price as the winter set of wheels and tires (which came out to $1,004, including shipping), so on the surface it was a wash, however, after I sent the 5er back I was able to sell the winter set for $400.

Best Regards,
Shipo

habitat1 · September 2007

And the $5000+ for the winter rubber & wheels

We obviously took different math courses in school. As shipo pointed out, a decent set of winter rims are relatively inexpensive. And winter tires are less expensive and generally last longer than high performance summer tires. So alternating to winter tires should actually SAVE you money on tire replacement over the life of the car. Probably enough to pay for the cost of the winter rims, if you plan on keeping the car 100k miles. Not to mention that it would only take one nasty pothole under the snow ruining a low profile factory rim (or two) to put you way ahead.

I've previously stated my preference for 2wd, for a number of reasons - dry performance/handling, weight, fuel efficiency, etc. But even if I lived in snow country (my former hometown gets 100+ inches annually) and opted for AWD, on a car like the 335ix, I'd still have a winter set of rims and tires. I've seen what happens to low profile aluminum rims in 5+ years of rough winters and it's not pretty.

roadburner · September 2007

And the $5000+ for the winter rubber & wheels

Sounds like a dealer package. For $50 more they kiss you and send flowers the next morning. I can't believe anyone would fall for that.

And winter tires are less expensive and generally last longer than high performance summer tires. So alternating to winter tires should actually SAVE you money on tire replacement over the life of the car. Probably enough to pay for the cost of the winter rims, if you plan on keeping the car 100k miles.

Plus, it takes me all of 45 minutes to change over all four wheels. Cake.

nyccarguy · September 2007

I'm with you 100% that AWD is pretty much not necessary and that a RWD BMW equipped with a set of winter wheels will go just about anywhere in the inclement weather.

The few of us enthusiasts out here can't change people's perceptions that they "need" AWD. I've tried to tell friends of mine or people I talk to that a dedicated set of winter tires is the way to go. They look at me like I just tried to explain advanced nuclear astrophysics to them.

roadburner · September 2007

In bumper to bumper traffic on and off the clutch for almost 2 hours waiting to get into Otis AFB for the military air show (Sunday 8/26), the outside temperature read 95 or 96 degrees consistently. The oil temp barely touched 250 degrees. This was excellent news, so far.

Stop and go traffic in high ambient temperatures isn't much of a test of the N54 engine's cooling system. It has an electric water pump and cooling fan, so coolant flow -as well as air flow through the radiator- are not compromised like they are with an engine driven pump and fan. Spending extended time at higher engine speeds with the turbos dumping additional heat into the system will determine the overall efficiency of the cooling system. I DO know that the 335i drop top(sans oil cooler) that I flogged in the Florida Keys heated up to near 300F fairly quickly. And this was a MT car, which didn't have the added burden of a slushbox dumping additional BTUs into the coolant.

roadburner · September 2007

The few of us enthusiasts out here can't change people's perceptions that they "need" AWD.

The owner demographics are also changing- what I call the "wearer to driver" ratio. More and more often I will see a newer BMW(AWD or RWD, it makes no difference) approach a 45 mph "advisory speed" corner at 40 mph- only to brake and slow down even more to negotiate the curve. If you are going to drive like that you might as well buy a Camry or Malibu.

nyccarguy · September 2007

I agree with you. but the wearers are a necessary evil if you will. They help pump money back to BMW so BMW can give us enthusiasts real BMWs to drive like the E46 ZHP, ///Motorsport Cars, E39 and E60 5ers with SPorts Packages & stick shifts.

Unfortunatley not everybody is a car nut like many of us here are.

Funny you should mention posted advisory speeds. I've actually slowed down my straight highway driving over the last few months due to a few (how shall we say) "discrepencies" with local law enforcement officials. I ended up getting off with 2 verbal warnings. One I actaully was speeding (we have some obscenely low speed limits here in the NYC area), but got let go because my license is 100% clean. The other I was pulled over and profiled because of my car and the manor in which the exhust is modified (I was going 60 in the right lane at the time). But I still rocket around those curves and exit ramps. I take a 25 mph exit ramp (Going from a Northbound highway to an Eastbound highway) going at least 60 every day and a set of 20 mph Ess curves at 60 while staying in the lines without tapping the brakes. In fact my '01 Prelude Type SH with just over 85,000 miles on it still has the original pads and rotors.

roadburner · September 2007

I agree with you. but the wearers are a necessary evil if you will. They help pump money back to BMW so BMW can give us enthusiasts real BMWs to drive like the E46 ZHP, ///Motorsport Cars, E39 and E60 5ers with SPorts Packages & stick shifts.

I agree, it's a similar situation with Porsche and the Cayenne. Still, the high percentage of wearers can have a negative effect. Remember the E46 over-boosted power steering fiasco? And did you see the recent Roundel column which told how BMW NA was getting dinged on JD Powers surveys because of brake dust on the front wheels?

circlew · September 2007

I recently notice that the speed-check police signs they put up on some of the roads here in Central NJ show 5-6MPH less than my '06 330xi speedo. That'll keep me closer to the law now!

I can do those ramps and Esses 10 mph faster with x-drive...easy....in all conditions!

JK!

Regards,
OW

Mr_Shiftright · September 2007

I have to confess that when I see a highly engineered car that is capable of amazing speeds and cornering, being driven like a golf cart on a winding path at a retirement home, it gives me chest pains.

roadburner · September 2007

I have to confess that when I see a highly engineered car that is capable of amazing speeds and cornering, being driven like a golf cart on a winding path at a retirement home, it gives me chest pains.

It's not like I expect them to take every corner in a four-wheel drift, but yes, watching them putter along like Aunt Maude in her Roadmaster is just bizarre... :confuse:

shipo · September 2007

As many of y'all know I'm relegated to minivandom these days and I too find it highly annoying when I have to slow down (often well below the limit) and follow any car capable of spirited driving through the twisties. I mean come on folks you're driving a 335i SP and I'm driving a nine year old minivan with 150,000 miles on the clock and I have to crawl along because you're too afraid to explore even 2/10s of the limit of your car. :mad:

Best Regards,
Shipo

06ltd · September 2007

I'm sorry. Actually I did understand. It just didn't translate to my keyboard. I changed my order for a 2008 335xi Coupe to a 335i Coupe.

roadburner · September 2007

I mean come on folks you're driving a 335i SP and I'm driving a nine year old minivan with 150,000 miles on the clock and I have to crawl along because you're too afraid to explore even 2/10s of the limit of your car.

The same thing happens to me when I'm driving my TJ Wrangler...
Unbelievable.

dhanley · September 2007

Yep, i was on the train going home from work recently, and we passed a 997TT who was doing about 45 on the interstate in the right lane. He was on his cell phone. Traffic was doing about 70.

Wanted to smack him.

And take his car, of course.

fedlawman · September 2007

I've heard turbo-charged cars are fragile and break down easily. Keep the speeds down, and temps will remain lower, thereby eliminating the need for a 2 minute cool down at your destination.

nyccarguy · September 2007

Good Point again. The wearers are the ones who probably complained the E36 was too small, with heavy steering, and rough riding suspensions which brought us to the E46 and then to the bloated E90 we have today.

Those JD power surveys are overrated IMO. If someone has a major complaint (My car wouldn't start 3 days after taking delivery, my tranny failed while I was overtaking an 18 wheeler at 75 mph, I hit the unlock button and my car caught on fire) then it should count against the car. People complain about brake dust, poor fuel economy, and rough riding suspensions on these surveys.

circlew · September 2007

I wonder what the difference the extra "bloat" has vs. driving dynamics between E90/92 and the lighter E46/36.

I never droves those models but to me the E90 is fantastic. Were the earlier model that much more capable in the handling area? To me, the car feels a little heavy but coming out of large US cars, this car is NOT bloated IMO. More solid is the feeling I can best submit and top class in the suspension feedback.

My only complaint is the RFT and no dip stick or a complete set of gauges. I did have a major problem with change out of the wiring harness due to malfunctioning air bag/seat belt sensor readings.

BTW, JD Powers, Consumer Reports, C&D, etc are guides only, IMO. The market goes to what people buy. I believe BMW sales have increased partly due to more affluent buyers being available, partly because the younger, more affluent population gave up on US automotive and perceived/actual quality at MB/Jaguar had problems recently.

Just my 2 cents. Bottom line, my view is from a different perspective.

Regards,
OW

rayainsw · September 2007

I test drove a new 2007 335 Sedan this week. Comments below.

Questions first:

Q1 - Comfort Access = $500 to NOT have to insert the key?
And that's all?

Q2 - Run flats.
The example I drove happened to have an aftermarket 19 custom wheel \ tire package installed. This was the only Sport, Premium, Step available at that particular moment. Since I have not driven a 335 with the Sport package and either the standard 17 wheel \ tire package, nor the optional 18s, I will limit my comments regarding ride quality.

So, my question is: How do the standard 17 and 18 runflat tires & wheels handle harsh conditions  for example, poorly patched or broken pavement, abrupt transitions such as concrete road seams, etc?

[ Q2.1 - And who handles a tire issue  a tire dealer or a BMW dealer? ]

Q3  RPM at cruise.
I have a somewhat irrational ( but very strongly held ) preference for the feeling of effortlessness I sense when I can cruise at high ( but at least semi-legal ) velocity at very low RPM.
I had no opportunity during this brief test drive to spend any time at my typical open road cruising speeds  70 to 80 MPH.
My calculations indicate that with the Step, 70 MPH would require approx. 2300+ RPM and 80 would be almost 2700 RPM.
[ My Corvette shows approx. 1550 RPM at 70. ]

Question: Is this what you 335 Step. owners are seeing for RPM at cruise?

Thanks in advance!!

Brief background \ Context, before my comments:
My current Daily Driver is a 2007 Corvette w/six speed automatic & paddles on the steering wheel  very similar ( visually ) to the BMWs paddle shifters.

My local dealer has been hounding me to drive a new 335 sedan  and had one equipped roughly as I would buy one, meaning Step, Sport, Premium, and a couple of other items. So, I drove it.

I was impressed. As has been well documented, the 300\300 HP\TQ rating is clearly ( um ) not accurate. Even with my sales dweeb as ballast ( 180#s or so, Id guess ) to deal with, the 335s acceleration impressed me. Driving as I typically would, with the sunroof in the vent position, I found the minimal engine noise & subtle but melodic exhaust sound quite enjoyable.

Coming from my Corvette, rated at 400\400 for HP\TQ and with a curb weight around 3300#s, and the 335 weighing closer to 3600 & saddled with a 5% handicap here ( the additional weight of my Client Advisor in the right seat ) I was all the more impressed with the throttle response & quickness. This engine is a masterpiece. I had high expectations for this aspect of the cars performance - and they were met.

The Steptronic \ automatic was the other key aspect I was interested in evaluating in my test drive. The primary irritations I have with my Corvette ( and I am very happy with it, overall ) center on the behavior of the automatic transmission. Primarily an inconsistent pause \ lag between request for an upshift or downshift via the paddles and the beginning of the actual shift execution. The shifts themselves are reasonably quick. Secondarily, there is no throttle blip or rev match on downshifts. ( Or at least a poor execution of this very good idea. And yes, I did know that before buying the Corvette. Sigh. )

In my relatively brief test drive of a 335, the Step has an almost immediate & seemingly quite consistent response to both up & downshifts via the paddles. And there is a good execution of the rev match on downshifts. Each of the shifts was quick - but smooth. Lived up to me ( high ) expectations.

The BMW paddle shift operation for the Steptronic happens to be the reverse of what makes sense to me & what I have now driven for something like 45,000 miles, in various sports cars & sedans. Old dog here  who would have to un-learn & re-learn. Oh, well . . .

I was also particularly impressed with the low RPM torque that the 335s TT motor exhibits. I enjoy an exhilarating run to the red line ( when road conditions & traffic safely allow ) but in more typical driving, I also find low RPM torque & flexibility very useful & attractive as well. I did not note any turbo lag in my driving. The previous couple of 330s I have driven were somewhat lacking in this area. The 335 has addressed this very well indeed.

I never even attempt to approach any cars handling \ cornering limits on public roads, and certainly did not stress this 335, but the handling certainly felt secure  the steering accurate & pleasantly weighted. The ride was generally very good ( see above re: wheels & tires ) with mostly well damped vertical motions & little side-to-side movement, though I was not on truly challenging surfaces for most of the drive.

I had planned to drive a new Caddy CTS after finishing at the BMW dealer. But after driving the 335, I just did not see the point. It seemed clear that the 304 HP V6 in the Caddy ( TQ = 270-something ) pushing over 3800#s would never be able to impress me, at least when directly & immediately compared to the BMW. 14.6 at 97 ( manual trans. 2008 CTS, tested by C+D ) is not likely to feel nearly as quick as a ( mid-13 second @ 100+ ) 335.

Just did not seem fair to the Caddy.

Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .
- Ray
Comprehensively impressed.

habitat1 · September 2007

I have a somewhat irrational ( but very strongly held ) preference for the feeling of effortlessness I sense when I can cruise at high ( but at least semi-legal ) velocity at very low RPM.

I think you need to exorcise yourself of that "very strongly held" preference, at least if you are going to consider cars that are more precisely engineered for performance than GM.

Your Corvette that lugs along at 1,550 rpms at 70 mph can only do so because Chevy's single minded approach to performance: add more cubic inches and torque. That Corvette can't possibly hit redline in 6th or even 5th gear. It is NOT a transmission or gearing ratio strategy that BMW, Porsche or even Honda engineers would ever consider worthy of imitation. Porsche gets similar or better acceleration out of 355hp/295 ft lbs of torque as Chevy does out of 400/400 in a lighter car. And the 911S, running at 2,700 rpm at 70 mph still turns out 27+ mpg on the highway. It's top speed of 182 comes precisely at 7,100 rpm (redline 7,200) in 6th gear. It's geared absolutely perfectly for maximum performance out of 3.8 liters. You can say you have a strongly held preference for 1,500 rpm at highway speeds, but it's simply done by GM to try to coax a decent EPA rating out of a oversized, underachieving 6.0 liter GM engine. And how did they refine it for 2008? They made it a 6.2 liter engine. Duh.

So, if the 335i impresses you, I suspect at least part of that is due to BMW's affection for quality and precision. I've seen it written that the "right" RPM's for a precisely engieered high performance engine to be running at 70+ mph highway speeds is roughly 35% of redline, and that they should be able to approach 90-95% of redline in top gear. And sure enough, everything from the Ferrari 430, 911, M3, and even my former Honda S2000 are right in that ballpark. Maybe BMW's use of twin turbos on the 335i changes that formula, but one thing is for sure, the Corvette transmission is not remotely close to "precise". And if it weren't for all of its 6+ liters, it wouldn't be able to keep up with that 2.0 liter Honda.

tayl0rd · September 2007

Wow! :surprise: I can only imagine how you feel about the Viper. And all the Mercedes AMG cars would probably receive a severe lambasting from you. :sick:

But you do know the Z06 revs out to (I think) 7200, don't you? And it tops out at redline. There are plenty of videos to attest to that on YouTube and Streetfire.

rayainsw · September 2007

"I think you need to exorcise yourself of that "very strongly held" preference, at least if you are going to consider cars that are more precisely engineered for performance than GM. "

Thanks...

tayl0rd · September 2007

A1 - If you think that's bad, try paying $1,000 for the exact same thing in the 5-series! :mad:

A2 - I drove a 335i w/ Sport that had the RFT and didn't see what the big deal was. The previous 330i SP had some noisy RFTs (drove that one, too), but the issue has been remedied.
A2.1 - It should be the dealer, but most of the time they tell you to contact the tire manufacturer yourself.

A3 - Keep in mind your Vette has a 6th gear as tall as a skyscraper and torque all over the place. It doesn't need to be wound up like a top like the "precision engineered" engines from other manufacturers (that are half the size or smaller and consume just as much fuel; precision engineering at its finest.)

cdnpinhead · September 2007

". . .major complaint (My car wouldn't start 3 days after taking delivery, my tranny failed while I was overtaking an 18 wheeler at 75 mph, I hit the unlock button and my car caught on fire) then it should count against the car. People complain about brake dust, poor fuel economy, and rough riding suspensions. . ."

A-bloody-men!!

Faults that render the car: 1) immobile, 2) really uncomfortable (window falls down & won't come up in Phoenix in the summer) or 3) not 100% functional in all areas at all times should definitely be weighted differently . . . but they're not.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2007

I sure hope the person who attempts to rev out a new Corvette to redline in 6th gear knows what the hell they are doing behind the wheel! :shades: I think, if you remain alive, you'll blow that motor doing that.

circlew · September 2007

Habitat1, excellent post...and that's why Cadillac will never really have a precision-tuned offering any time in the next 20 years anywhere near 335-caliber!

It's like you said over on the Porsche forum...'Vette = sledge hammer, Porsche = scalpel. I would add to that Caddy = rubber mallet!

Regards,
OW

habitat1 · September 2007

But you do know the Z06 revs out to (I think) 7200, don't you? And it tops out at redline. There are plenty of videos to attest to that on YouTube and Streetfire.

Try that again? Using 1,550 rpm for 70 mph, redline in 6th gear would be a mere 325 mph. :surprise: About 140 faster than it's actual top speed, which, if I'm not mistaken is redline in 4th gear. 5th and 6th gears in the Corvette are virtually useless except for eeking out an extra 1-2 mpg on the highway and lowering the decible level.

As for lambasting the Viper, I don't honestly know what the gearing is. But it does appear to use the "super sized" sledgehammer approach to engineering as well.

AMG cars get a limited free pass from me. They will never will be my cup of tea, but if you want 700 ft lbs of torque in your family sedan or 2.5 ton SL65, who am I to argue. What I did ascertain, however, is that even the SLK55 wasn't half the real sports car of my former Honda S2000. Automatic only, a slow shifting 5 speed slushbox and an extra 600+ lbs of dead weight made for a very underwhelming drive. Even the owner of my Acura/Mercedes dealership drives, of all things, a Porsche Cayman S.

habitat1 · September 2007

I would add to that Caddy = rubber mallet!

Addition accepted.

tayl0rd · September 2007

... Using 1,550 rpm for 70 mph, redline in 6th gear would be a mere 325 mph. ... 5th and 6th gears in the Corvette are virtually useless except for eeking out an extra 1-2 mpg on the highway and lowering the decible level. ...

Don't forget about Cd. And on an episode of Top Gear a couple of weeks ago on BBC America (YAAAAYYY! We finally got it!!), the tall guy whose name escapes me right now for some reason, went from a dead stop all the way to 170MPH in 5th gear in a Z06 and was still accelerating when he hit the brake point down the runway. I'd love to see a 335i or Porsche do that.

shipo · September 2007

Don't know about the Porsche, however, the 335i is governed to a top speed in the 150 mph range.

Best Regards,
Shipo

tayl0rd · September 2007

I thought it was drag limited to 148? Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I suppose.

shipo · September 2007

You're not suggesting that if the 335i was ungoverned that it wouldn't be able to exceed 148 in any gear are you? Hmmm, maybe I misinterpreted your post.

Best Regards,
Shipo

tayl0rd · September 2007

Yes, if it can't beat the drag.

habitat1 · September 2007

went from a dead stop all the way to 170MPH in 5th gear in a Z06 and was still accelerating when he hit the brake point down the runway. I'd love to see a 335i or Porsche do that.

You are easily amused, it appears. What, pray tell, is so interesting about going from 0-170 in 5th gear on a runway? I'll give you 10 to 1 odds that the first 0-60 mph segment was over 10 seconds. Assuming he didn't burn the clutch to schreds with a 7,000 rpm clutch drop.

The 911 Turbo is capable of 0-60 in about 3.5 seconds and a 192 mph top speed. Enough to do anything the Z06 does. But if you want to see a repeat of that strange feat, you might have to rent a Jack [non-permissible content removed] video, because most Porsche or BMW drivers I know are actually capable of shifting gears on their way up to 170+ mph.

As for the "don't forget about Cd" comment, what am I not supposed to forget? The Corvette is drag limited in top speed and leaves more than a few mph on the table due to it's whacky gearing that does not coincide with its peak horsepower. The 911S hits its top speed precisely at peak horsepower in top gear. You might want to forward your suggestion to GM, as they seem to have misplaced Cd in their gearing calculations.

And...just for the record, my comments were not for the purpose of starting a GM vs. German engineering war. I know there are still quite a lot of people that think big displacement, high torque, low rpm muscle cars are the bomb. I should have qualified my original post that I simply happen to enjoy driving a sports car or sedan at an rpm level that has a little more "zing" to it and allows me to get maximum performance using something other than a lead weighted right foot. And if I wanted to cruise at a near comotose rpm levels, I'd buy a Lexus. Or a Mercedes diesel that gets 35+ mpg. But not a sports car or sports sedan.

While you are watching 0-170 mph in 5th gear on a straight runway videos, I'm trying to figure out how I can get a ride in an 8,400 rpm GT3 around Nurburgring.

shipo · September 2007

I see... Look at it this way, my 2002 530i SP with a lowly 225 hp was able to hit the 150 mph governor (European Delivery is a wonderful thing). That being the case, I seriously doubt that the 335i (which has half again as much power as my 530i) would have any problems blowing past the 150 threshold and continuing on up into the 170 to 180 range.

Best Regards,
Shipo

gja · September 2007

"The 911 Turbo is capable of 0-60 in about 3.5 seconds and a 192 mph top speed. Enough to do anything the Z06 does...
And if I wanted to cruise at a near comotose rpm levels, I'd buy a Lexus. Or a Mercedes diesel that gets 35+ mpg. But not a sports car or sports sedan."

That's the beauty of the Z06, it can perform like a Porsche when you want fun at the track and cruise like a Lexus on the interstate when you want to relax! At a bang for the buck price!

nyccarguy · September 2007

It all depends what your perception is. If you're comparing the E90 3 series to its current competition (IS, A4, C, G35...), then the 3 series is a superior car despite its size/weight. I'm sure even your 330Xi feels nimble compared to the current offering.

I've only had the oppurtunity to drive the first iterations of BMWs E90, a 325iA & 330iA both with Sports Package (I've been told not to drive a 335i unless I plan on buying one). The 325iA was comfortable, reasonably quick (I'm not an acceleration junkie), somewhat floaty, and isolated as far as road feel goes. I couldn't justify the lease price (I would havce ordered one with a stick). My '01 Honda Prelude Type SH is much more invigorating to drive.

I actually really liked the 330iA when I drove it (at a LEXUS IS350 event). It was powerful, provided decent steering feedback, and it handled really well.

I can't really speak for the E46 as I didn't have too much seat time in one, but the E36 was a truly special car. The car wrapped around me, it had quick reflexes, plenty of power, & very direct steering feedback. I got in it (a '95 E36 325is Sport Package/5-Speed) and within 2 minutes of driving I was comfortable pushing the car and exploring its limits of adhesion (on the streets & highways of Buffalo, NY at 4:30 AM). If someone were to offer me an insane amount of money for my Prelude, I'd strongly consider looking for a pristine '98 or '99 E36 328iS with SPorts Package and Stick Shift.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2007

Please stop breaking my heart with all this 5th gear abuse. Don't DO that to nice cars like this! Geez, the strain on engine and drivetrain must be horrendous. What next, drop a Z06 and a BMW from a building and time them?

circlew · September 2007

Relax! The team is just having fun! Both cars are real nice. They just do things differently and one is more refined than the other. Besides, I see most 'Vette drivers AND Porsche drivers behaving this summer.

Leave the insane tests to the Ad agencies and the car mags.

Regards,
OW

habitat1 · September 2007

"Beauty" is in the eye of the beholder. I'd concur that the Corvette is a good performance "bang for the buck". But I don't think too many people would mistake "cruising" in its GM plastic heavy interior for a Lexus experience. If that's your goal, Porsche and BMW come a lot closer, higher rpms notwithstanding.

habitat1 · September 2007

As fundamentally different as the Corvette, 911 and 335i are, it is interesting that BMW, Porsche AND the Corvette share space on the list of highest resale value cars.

So let me reiterate that, although my personal preference is for the BMW and Porsche approcah to performance, engineering and build quality, the guys at Chevy/GM must be doing something right with the Corvette to keep it on that list after all these years. If only half of GM's line-up was half as successful as the Corvette, they wouldn't be on the verge of bankruptcy.

circlew · September 2007

You are exactly right,IMO. Corvette is the only original success story and the rest is history for GM. Similar with the Mustang at Ford. US car companies have the attention span of a day trader! No loyalty to develop a brand or particular concept. Just incremental add ons and then kill the model and start over again. BMW seems to have gotten it right with the 3series and now I know why they develop such loyalty.

Regards,
OW

tayl0rd · September 2007

Easy with the jabs, habitat1. I was merely giving a rebuttal to your statement that "5th and 6th gear in the Corvette are for cruising only." That show segment clearly proved that 5th gear is not just a cruising gear. And, no, he didn't do a 7000RPM clutch drop. He did a normal street start. It lugged for the first few seconds, but was never in danger of stalling. That's the beauty of having a car with torque. You can "zing" along all you want and you don't have to strain the engine to do so.

And don't gimme that "superior engineering" argument. I'd like to see a Porsche engine and a Corvette engine on dynos side-by-side, set to maximum output, and see which one is the proverbial last man standing.

habitat1 · September 2007

That's the beauty of having a car with torque. You can "zing" along all you want and you don't have to strain the engine to do so.

That's precisely where we differ. The high performance cars that interest me are hardly being "strained" by using their entire rev range. These high compression, multivalve engines love to rev and they can handle 7,000, 8,000 and even 9,000 rpm with less "strain" than one would put on the average dinosaur GM engine at 4,000 rpm. To its credit, Chevy has developed a more competent, higher revving engine for the Corvette, but still handicaps it with whacky gear ratios - perhaps from the old days when cruising above 3,000 rpm in any GM was considered suicidal.

There is a difference between a muscle car and a sports car. I'll always prefer the latter.

P.S. I recently had my 1995 Nissan Maxima serviced where we keep it at our second home. At 155,000 miles, it's still on its original clutch and the compression test (performed free) showed 97%+ of new car specs on every cylinder. And I NEVER up-shifted at under 2,500-3,000 rpms, more typically at 4,000, and occasionally at 6,500 for "spirited" driving. When he handed me the keys, the service manager, previously with GM and Ford dealerships, said, "this is why I switched dealers - you would never find a GM engine running like this after 100k miles, let alone 155k".

tayl0rd · September 2007

... There is a difference between a muscle car and a sports car. ...

Don't tell me you're one of those people that say the Corvette isn't a "real" sportscar??

habitat1 · September 2007

This debate, interesting as it is, has gotten way far afield from the 335i. Perhaps we should take it over to the Porsche board where there is even a topic titled 911 vs. Corvette?

But, to answer your question, no I would not accuse the Corvette of not being a real sportscar. I already get in enough trouble in another forum when I slip into questioning whether any car with a slushbox automatic can be labeled "sport". The Corvette is a "real" sports car, at least the 6-speed manual version.

Rather, I would contend that somebody who thinks cruising at 70 mph with the engine barely above idle at 1,500 rpm is the cat's meow probably has a few muscle car genes in their DNA. Seriously, could you imagine Ferrari ever gearing their cars with that objective in mind?

This isn't a case of I'm right and your wrong, or vice versa. I certainly don't dislike torque, but I love a free revving, high rpm engine along with a "real" manual transmission in a "sports" car, coupe or sedan. The original poster I responded to contended that he had a preference for ultra low rpms at highway speeds. No matter how much we debate this, I don't think that is BMW's goal with the 3 series and I, for one, hope they never go in that direction. Let Lexus be the cure for highway insomnia.

dhanley · September 2007

Well, i still drive am e36, and while i like the e90 in a lot of ways, it feels really quite numb, to the point where i'm happy to be back in my car. I like being able to feel the engine, and what the wheels are doing....

I'm hoping the 1-series will pull the trick.

roadburner · September 2007

Well, i still drive am e36, and while i like the e90 in a lot of ways, it feels really quite numb, to the point where i'm happy to be back in my car. I like being able to feel the engine, and what the wheels are doing....

Me too; I've got the tire pressures adjusted to the point that my ti has a neutral to oversteer handling balance. You have to be really ham-handed to make it understeer. And it's totally nanny-free! As a matter of fact, even my MS3 allows quite a bit of wheelspin and driver-induced yaw before the "safety" acronyms intervene.

I'm hoping the 1-series will pull the trick.

NA is certainly trying to position the 1er coupe as a modern day 2002. We'll see how they deliver on that implied promise...

dan12 · September 2007

I finally took delivery of my new 335i sedan tonight after waiting 2 months for it. Silver on the outside, black leather, with aluminum trim. It's automatic with the sports package. All I can say is - WOW! This car ROCKS! I don't find it rough at all. In fact, it was very smooth even over the few rough roads I drove on tonight. Ok, I only have about 30 miles on it so far, so maybe I shouldn't say too much. But I drove on the freeway, and on side roads over some bumpy stuff and all was good. There was one particular part of a freeway that felt quite bumpy, but that would've been bumpy in my Jeep too. This is a very nice ride.

circlew · September 2007

Dan12, congratulations and best of luck with your new ride!

Doesn't the speedometer look fake as you accelerate? It's hard to believe it is so smooth and fast! After driving one briefly, my '06 330 felt like I lost 2 sleeves!

Did you opt for SP?

Regards,
OW

BMW 335i 2007+

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