Buying a used 5 Series

bristol2 · January 2008

I'm definitely not an 'own maintenance' guy unfortunately.

I would be buying from Carmax so it sounds like the CPO is out of the question.

I am not a believer in buying extended warranties but I have heard that Carmax offers a competitive one for Bimmers (the buyer goes to a BMW dealership and carmax pays them). We do have a great private shop that specializes in BMWs in my town so I really need to get a good handle on what I can project costs to be since the car would be out of warranty.

530ir1150r · January 2008

I believe for a BMW to last it has to be serviced more often than current BMW recommendations. I also believe following BMW recommendations will increase repair costs over time, like the old Fram commercials.

My experience is to budget $1500 per year for maintenance. I did not purchase extended warranties or maintenance plans and I paid $1400 for services and repairs that would have been covered by either. All warranty and maintenance plans have profits and commissions included in their cost. Most people will come out ahead self insuring.

bristol2 · January 2008

From your earlier posts, you suggested an oil change every 7500 miles- is that correct?

Given that the car is at 31k miles, what are the immediate service steps I would have to take? It seems that the first major service would be due, I imagine that the previous owner did not take care of it right before getting rid of the car.

Do the manuals have any differences in services?

530ir1150r · January 2008

A leased 2004 probably has had annual oil changes and possibly the brake fluid changed after 2 years.

I have the oil changed at 7500 mile intervals, brake fluid every 2 years, power steering fluid every 3 years and coolant every 4 years. With previous cars with automatic transmissions, I change transmission fluid every 30,000 miles. My guess is it is time to do everything. At 30k I also changed the air filter and micro filter.

Check Bimmer or Roundel, Tech Reporter, for maintenance recommendations.

qbrozen · January 2008

I am going from a loaded v6 Accord sedan with 6-speed, giving up approx 20 hp with the move to the BMW. Will I be disappointed by the get up and go?

Did you drive the car? I also drive a 6-spd accord sedan. I recently test drove a 330Ci automatic and thought, even with the auto, it blows the doors off my Accord. Its not all about HP numbers. What I find with my Accord is that the power is pretty peaky. Not as bad as some cars, but it certainly pales in comparison to the fat wide power curve of the BMW.

Not to mention the Accord is VERY hard to launch in a manner that we would ever see the published 5.9 sec 0-60 number due to the aforementioned peakiness and the total lack of traction that FWD provides on acceleration. It is probably more like 6.5 secs. The 5-series is a bit heavier than the 3'er I drove, but I still think you will be more than happy ... especially when you hit any turns.

bristol2 · January 2008

Great feed back!

I hope to test drive late next week.

I have a great commute, approx 70 miles at an average of 70mph with some twisty stuff. That is why I am so tempted to get out of the 'sensible' car I am in and into a potentially expensive and risky choice.

mike1005 · January 2008

Just got back from the dealership and signed the papers to purchase a Certified Pre-Owned 2005 545i. I did my research beforehand and consider myself a pretty good negotiator, but I can't help wonder if the deal I got was a little "too good". Here's what I bought (and will be picking up on Monday):

CPO 2005 545i -- 42,000 miles
Orient Blue Metallic/Beige Dakota Leather
Premium Sound Pkg
Cold Weather Pkg
Sport Pkg.
Navigation
Power fold-down rear seats
New tires & car is in excellent condition
Clean carfax (no accidents -- this is also a requirement to be CPO)

I bought it for $34,400 + tax/tag/title, which is nearly $10,000 less than the value stated by Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book. I don't know if it's typical "buyer's remorse" (how could it be with this beautiful of a car?), but I am hoping someone can tell me that I just got a great deal and be happy with it. Thanks.

bristol2 · January 2008

You got a GREAT deal. Be happy with it!

Since you went CPO, you have very little risk in terms of repair issues. It seems like you got a great deal and a great car.

mike1005 · January 2008

Thanks! I am VERY excited about this purchase since I really wasn't in the market for a 545 and was looking for a 530. I thought the 530 had plenty of power, but when I drove the 545 it just wasn't even close (I guess that shouldn't be a surprise since the 545 has 325 hp/330 ft. lbs. torque). The extra power -- combined with all the options -- came for the same price as many of the 2005 530 models that I was looking at. It was just too good of a deal to pass up on.

Anyway, thanks again for the response.

roadburner · January 2008

Yeah, sounds like you got an excellent deal. The 5ers are a bit too porky for my tastes, but even I would have been tempted by that price...

djl01 · January 2008

Hi all,

I'm hoping to get some advice on buying a used BMW 545i. First of all, it is black w/ the beige leather, full options, heads up display and only 32k miles on it. It was a lease return but is NOT CPO. The full service warranty is up this year in 9/08 and the carfax report shows it was maintained regularly and had no prior damages. Paint, rims, body, etc. are all immaculate. I am a first time BMW buyer so I want to ask the forum, Do you think this is a good deal for $32,500.00? Please let me know if I can expect to have any problems after the full service warranty is up although I plan to buy the extended 100k warranty.

Thanks for your help in advance!!

bristol2 · January 2008

From the pricing I have seen that sonds like a good deal with all the options.

Don't forget that a full 100k warranty will add about 2k.

Most on this forum are BMW fans so I don't think you will hear much on the cars being unreliable.

stephenabelson · January 2008

I just saw a 1995 BMW 525i with 53,933 miles on it. They are selling it for $8,995. What do you think? Good deal? Do you think this is a long lasting car? It's already 13 years old, is it going to last another 10 years with the low miles? What problems do the 1995's have? Any info would be greatly appreciated. What to look out for, exc..?

roadburner · January 2008

The E34 5 Series are well regarded in the BMW community. The 2.5 six cylinder is long lived and problem free, aside from a need for a water pump at @60000 mile intervals. I would definitely have the car inspected by a qualified BMW tech. I'd also want to see the service history. Has the oil been changed every 7000 miles or so? Has the coolant been changed ever three years-using only BMW coolant? has the brake fluid been changed ever two years using a DOT 4 fluid? How about the final drive and transmission? Assuming the car checks out, I'd think you could easily get 10 years and or another 150000 miles out of it. As for price, I would think $6000-$8000 is the price range, depending on location, condition, and color. You might want to read up on the E34 here, here, and here.
There is also a comprehensive service manual available from Bentley if you want to tackle some projects yourself- it's an easy car to work on.

eastburg5 · February 2008

Hi All,

I'm considering purchase of a 2001 525 with only 17,000 miles which is selling for $20,000. Its being sold by a reputable non-BMW dealer. The CARFAX report identifies it as a one-owner vehicle which has had regular maintenance. Its owner apparently lived in Washington DC and drove the car infrequently. I had several questions which I thought you might be able to help me with:

1. Are there mechanical or body discrepancies that I should be on the lookout for in purchasing a vehicle such as this which has been driven infrequently?
2. I've seen the EPA mileage estimates (19/27), but I was wondering what kind of mileage I could actually expect with relatively conservative city/highway driving?
3. Is it OK to use regular unleaded rather than the recommended premium fuel? I've heard that for high compression engines you can place an additive in the fuel that has the same effect as higher octane grades.
4. Are there any significant maintenance or reliability problems with this model?
5. Are there any problems with using certain aftermarket parts rather than BMW parts?

Thank you for this forum....its been very informative.

Steve

shipo · February 2008

1. Are there mechanical or body discrepancies that I should be on the lookout for in purchasing a vehicle such as this which has been driven infrequently?

Yes, there are issues with engine oil (one year), brake fluid (two years), and coolant (four years, errr, I think) that are age and not mileage sensitive. You should be asking for a full service record for the car.

2. I've seen the EPA mileage estimates (19/27), but I was wondering what kind of mileage I could actually expect with relatively conservative city/highway driving?

With my 2002 530i 5-Speed I was able to handily beat the EPA mileage estimates for both city and highway, in fact, I was able to routinely get over 30 mpg on the highway.

3. Is it OK to use regular unleaded rather than the recommended premium fuel? I've heard that for high compression engines you can place an additive in the fuel that has the same effect as higher octane grades.

Is it okay? Yes and no. If you want to run Regular gasoline, you should be looking at a Honda, Toyota, Lincoln, Chrysler or Cadillac. FWIW, while the engine will run on Regular fuel, your fuel economy will drop to such an extent that your fuel cost per mile will actually be higher than if you just ran Premium in the first place. FWIW #2, BMW does NOT recommend using ANY fuel additives.

4. Are there any significant maintenance or reliability problems with this model?

No, not really.

5. Are there any problems with using certain aftermarket parts rather than BMW parts?

Parts? What kind of parts?

Best Regards,
Shipo

alko1 · March 2008

I'm shopping around for a low mileage (<40k) '02/'03 540 Steptronic with Sport Pkg. I love the looks of the M Sport Pkg which was available only on '03s but they're few to be found. Is there a difference between the two packages besides exteriors? One ad I saw made reference to gearing and/or differential ratios being different (like the M5). Also what effect does this have on MPG? :confuse:

roadburner · March 2008

Is there a difference between the two packages besides exteriors?

No. IIRC, all 540i Sports get a 3.15 final drive as well as a 155 mph limiter(non Sports get a 2.81 ratio and a 128 mph top). As far as M Sport packages go, there's no such thing when it comes to US spec cars- there are only Sport Packages. BMW has a penchant for adding a few additional ///M touches to Sport Pkg. cars towards the end of their model run, as in the case of the E36/5, the E36 328is Sport, the E39 540i Sport, and the E46 ZHP. People sometimes call them M Sports because there are similar packages offered across the pond, but-aside from a few E36/5 and E34 cars built by BMW Individual in the 90's-BMW NA has simply called them Sport Packages.

Also what effect does this have on MPG?

Who cares? I'll trade mpg for added thrust all day long.

And one more thing...
Buy a six speed manual.

edbarry12 · March 2008

I have been reading some of the posts in this forum this morning, and there seem to be some very knowledgeable folks who answer these questions, so am hoping to get some help on a couple of questions.

My father is the original owner of a 2001 BMW 530 with just under 40,000 miles. He is going to sell it, and I'm interested in buying it. He has purchased 1 year warranties twice now from BMW, which have since expired, and he's been told by BMW that he cannot purchase another.

If I purchase this car I will do so only if I can also purchase an extended warranty. I called my local BMW dealer to see if I could purchase a warranty from them, and they said I could only purchase it if the car had originally been purchased from them. That is not the case, so I believe I need to get a 3rd party warranty.

I've done some reading on purchasing extended warranties that cover both wear and tear, as well as mechanical breakdowns. Does anyone have any advice on reputable companies that I can get a quote from? Any advice on the length of the warranty I should get? Can I even get coverage for this type of vehicle and, if I can, is it even worth it (ie will I get nickle and dimed in the fine print and not qualify for repairs)?

Any advice or experience is most welcome.

Thanks!

roadburner · March 2008

Any advice or experience is most welcome.

The following suggestions are based on my experience running a 1997 528iA from 2001 to 2005:

1. Forget any non-BMW NA warranty. They are glorified insurance policies. The House almost always wins.
2. Set aside $80-$90 a month for service/repairs
3. Find a good independent BMW tech, which will cut service costs @30%-40%.
4. Join the BMW Car Club. Receive up to a 20% discount on parts and/or labor.
5. Enjoy owning and driving a world class sports sedan.
6. (Optional) Buy the E39 Bentley Service Manual and learn to perform simple maintenance and repairs-oil change, brake pads, plugs, etc.-yourself. And save even more money.

kraut_rock · March 2008

I am considering buying a pre owned 2006 BMW 525xi and would love to have some comments/observations, good or bad from current or past owners of this model. I have admired BMW's from a far for years; this will be my first so any advice from BMW pros will be appreciated

Thanks!

awhughes1 · March 2008

I have a few general questions regarding the 540:

1. What years to avoid based on major engine problems? I have heard about engine failures, cylinder heads problems, oil leaks etc.

2. What years are best to purchase in the under $15,000 range with under 100k miles?

3. What is the typical routine maintinance cost of ownership for a 540 that is in good condition and has been maintained?

4. How many miles do 540's last for under normal driving conditions and proper maintinance?

5. Is the 530 a more reliable car?

alko1 · March 2008

Thanks for the reply. It's just a matter of sorting through the listings on Autotrader and sometimes the photos don't match the descriptions. For example I saw one 2003 540 advertised w/ Sport Pkg which had the 3-spoke steering wheel and correct wheels, but had standard seating - not the sport seats. (I look for the thigh extenders in the photos to confirm) How was this possible?

Also how can I tell from a photo if the sound system is Premium Sound?

shipo · March 2008

The only year that the 530i was available with the standard seats and the sport package was 2001. In that year you had to order the Sport Package as well as the "M" Seating Package to get the full enchilada. For the 2002 and 2003 model years, the Sport Package included all of the bits.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

roadburner · March 2008

Also how can I tell from a photo if the sound system is Premium Sound?

Have you listened to the "Premium Sound" system? To my ears it doesn't sound all that great. Bavarian Soundwerks sells a speaker upgrade package for the E39 that is an easy afternoon DIY project. For $450 that is the route I would take.

ny540i6 · March 2008

Have you listened to the "Premium Sound" system? To my ears it doesn't sound all that great. Bavarian Soundwerks sells a speaker upgrade package for the E39 that is an easy afternoon DIY project. For $450 that is the route I would take.

My E39 has the premium sound. The best thing about it is that the EQ settings are pretty extensive, and allow some decent customization. Most people don't adjust anything there. I also upgraded the speakers using one of Bav Soundwerk's kits, and now it sounds even better.

roadburner · March 2008

My E39 has the premium sound. The best thing about it is that the EQ settings are pretty extensive, and allow some decent customization.

My wife's E39 had the DSP as well, I finally found a guy on BMWTips.com who had spent some time with a Rat Shack spl meter and a calibration CD. I set the equalizer to his recommendations and the result was a much better sound. Still not that great though. In all honesty, I thought the premium system in my E36/7 sounded much better- though I am planning to fit it with the BSW midranges and tweeters.

530ir1150r · March 2008

My 2002 530i, Sport Package, has comfort seats, which may look like standard seats in a photo.

harry67 · March 2008

I am considering buying a 2003 340i with 51,000 miles in the Central NJ area. What should I consider when to purchase this car? Warranty? Is this a good price? Potential maintenance? Other considerations? Thanks

harry67 · March 2008

I am considering buying a 2003 340i with 51,000 miles in the Central NJ area. What should I consider when to purchase this car? Warranties? Is this a good price? Potential problems and maintenance? Other considerations? Thanks

hpowders · March 2008

That is indeed the question!

I leased a 2005 545i back in July 2005 for 3 years and got a great deal: 0.001 (2.4% interest) money factor and a great cap. cost with no money down, 36,000 miles allowed.

The car has performed flawlessly-no mechanical or electrical issues. No dings. Looks as good as new.

I get an incredible 21 mpg out of the wonderful V8. The vehicle only has 23,000 miles.

It has Steptronic transmission and comfort seats. No sport package.

I just put new Contis on and it rides better than ever!

The buyout on my contract is $34,320 which I consider a bit "high!"

I really hate to give this baby back which has performed flawlessly with much fewer miles on it than the 36,000 that is allowed.

I have always leased BMW's since 1993.

Would it be wise to CPO the 545i and buy it? If I do so, would I be in a good position to negotiate a lower price than the $34,320 with my dealer? Would he rather "deal" with me than take the car back at lease termination? Any wiggle room here?

From BMWNA's website, they finance 2005 CPO 5 Series at 3.9%. I believe it costs around $1400 to CPO the vehicle.

Or, should I just forget all this, give the 545i back and move on to the next lease which more than likely would be a 3 Series? The run-flats, however, would be a huge turnoff for me on the 3 Series.

I have only been driving around 9000 miles per year, so excessive maintenance costs with the 545i shouldn't be an issue. But, who knows?

I am open to any and all suggestions.

mrfinagle · March 2008

Is $13300 a fair price for this 2002 530i sports package 5 spd auto in good/average shape with 75k mi (lt blue/teal)? The plastic on the driver's seat is scraped down to the uncolored base plastic, it has a quarter size dent by the trunk lock, a chip on the rear rt door and light scratches here and there. I test drove it with my wife and son. They loved it, but its hard for me to tell if its a bit soft on suspension, if it has good performance or if the engine noise is low because I drive an old Corolla now. Thanks in advance. I put a $100 deposit on it with balance next week after a mechanic's inspection.

tc520 · March 2008

I was in the same situation. CPO = $1500 or so and residual = $34900. Total with all fees would have been over $39000. Didn't like what I was hearing so I downloaded a bunch of competitor's ads advertising 2005 545s with similar mileage that were listed for considerably less. After showing them the ads I told them I wanted to stay with the current dealer but not at a 2-3 thousand dollar premium. After some haggling we agreed on a $33995 price with CPO and new tires thrown in. This price was negotiated after the dealer had initially said the residual was set and couldn't be negotiated down.

roadburner · March 2008

$13,000 doesn't sound too bad; Autotrader shows several 2002 Sports listed for over $15,000. Still, I'd check it against Edmunds TMV and I'd also ask the guys in the "Real-World Trade-In Values" thread. The flaws you noticed are fairly inexpensive to correct. Does the car have a full service history? It's good that the "60,000 mile cooling system service" has already been performed :P (although my indie shop performed the same work on my 528i for $1,200). Just what did the dealer do on that $5,000 visit? It would be nice if the ATF and final drive oil had been changed as well. Does your mechanic know BMWs? Make sure that he inspects the lower control arm bushings and tie rod ends. Did you check to see that all four power windows work? The E39 5 Series is a really wonderful sports sedan. I'd set aside @$80 per month to cover service and repairs and drive it for another 75,000 miles.

hpowders · March 2008

Thanks for sharing your experience, tc520. You did very well!

Sounds like I have quite a bit of wiggle room if I show the dealer I will walk if he won't negotiate the residual down. I already put new Contis on several weeks ago for a little over $800. Leasing would be really terrific if one didn't have to shell out for new tires before turn in. At least I will have 5 months of use from them if I decide to turn the 545i back in to BMW.

Leasing 3 Series vehicles is even worse now. The run-flats that must be replaced on turn in cost around $1200 per set.

There are so many new vehicles out there that I can lease or buy so I can afford to float a low ball offer for the 545i. If he takes it fine. If not, no big deal.

mrfinagle · March 2008

Thanks for the clear and useful response Roadrunner. I checked the trade in pages. Someone quoted $14k last Nov to trade-in a 530i w/2k less mi and prem./nav extras. Last Feb someone said $14.3. That's what the seller was asking for at first, but I bargained him down a G. I haven't been given a full service history so far. I got the receipt for the "$5000" service which was $2000 (I guess that bothers me the most that he lied in the ad and said it was jsut serviced at the bmw dealership for $5000). The work included oil pan gasket R&R, replacing the radiator, hoses, water pump, coolant. I learned a lot from calling the shop owner that did the service, (like where the seller got the $5000 number...it was quoted as what the dealer would charge by the mechanic). He said it was a sound car, a single owner (description fit the seller). I googled his shop and it looks legit. I also checked Carfax and it was serviced at least once a yr, had a single owner, no accidents, mileage checks out, that's all I can tell. My mechanic is not a BMW expert but he put it on a lift, test drove it, and brought it to a friend up the street that does high end cars. He said the engine was in good shape, but noticed some power steering weeping and that said the steering mechanism would have to be replaced in 2-3 yrs but not just now. They gave me a part price around $1100 (rack w/something-tronic), which I tried to use as a bargaining chip to lower the price but the seller wouldn't budge from $13.3. I will check the windows and look into the ATF/drive oil change (wondering if that's expensive). ">Let me know if you think anything is a deal stopper or if anything else comes to mind! Much appreciated!

roadburner · March 2008

noticed some power steering weeping and that said the steering mechanism would have to be replaced in 2-3 yrs but not just now.

Maybe, maybe not. BMWs are notorious for having power steering hoses that leak or seep. Often a low pressure hose can be fixed by removing the crimped-on clamp and replacing it with a good screw clamp. If it does turn out that you do need a steering rack, there are several shops that sell rebuilt racks for less than the factory units(another reason to join BMW CCA).

ATF/drive oil change (wondering if that's expensive)

Not really; my local dealer changed the ATF and transfer case fluid on my wife's X3 for $208. In your case I'd say that $400 would be the most it would cost to service both the AT and the final drive. That said, I'd strongly advise that you use a good dealer or BMW independent shop for the transmission service, as the procedure is fairly involved- as can be seen here.

mrfinagle · March 2008

Thx roadburner! So many more questions come to mind but I'll join BMW CCA to ID shops, etc and look to forums first beforehand. Wish I could buy you lunch for the help!

roadburner · March 2008

Thx roadburner! So many more questions come to mind but I'll join BMW CCA to ID shops, etc and look to forums first beforehand. Wish I could buy you lunch for the help!

No problem; ask away! And you can always shoot me a PM at roadburner@carspace.com...

fieldofdreams · April 2008

At 200,000 miles I have a chance to purchase a 1994 BMW 530i. Anything I should look for when test driving this car? I tend to read alot of transmission comments when it comes to 530i's. The car looks clean and well taken care of, but at 200,000 I would think something has to be waiting to happen or I may be wrong?

I look forward to any replies.

roadburner · April 2008

The car looks clean and well taken care of, but at 200,000 I would think something has to be waiting to happen or I may be wrong?

If the car checks out fine AND you have average or better DIY mechanic skills and tools then I would say go for it. If you will have to pay for all maintenance and repairs it could be very expensive to own. DO NOT even THINK about buying the car without having it inspected by a tech who knows BMWs. It might be a decent enough deal, but you need to have all the data in front of you before you can make an informed decision.

rl328 · April 2008

Any thoughts? Thanks.

roadburner · April 2008

I ALWAYS prefer the smaller and lighter car(with RWD). You may not. You really can't go wrong with either car, so take each one on an extended test drive and pick the one YOU like.

gb2008 · April 2008

Hi , I have a couple question that I would like your help with.

I have neevr driven a Manualdo you thinkthis would be a issue?

Also I have heard that the drive mode on the SMG is not that good is that true?

While I am driving in the Stick mode do I have to change the stick myself or does the car do it automatically?
Would appricate your help

lovemyclk · April 2008

The SMG transmission is not available on any US-spec 5-Series cars other than the M5.

gb2008 · April 2008

You are wrong this is a 2005 530is I saw it for my self the two peddles mounted on the steering wheel comes with sport package as well

shipo · April 2008

Paddles are no indication of SMG. There are plenty of car makers that use paddles for gear changes on cars equipped with a conventional torque converter style automatic transmission (BMW and Lexus included). Like it or not, there are no 530i models sold here in the U.S. that have an SMG transmission.

Best Regards,
Shipo

gb2008 · April 2008

ok I guess so you are telling me that both dealers are lying and the SMG on the gear stick it self is wrong and why does it have R, N , (--down) (up+) and then the D off to the right . but go check http://www.kingsautoshow.com/vehicle.asp?v=407930#1 just maybe I am wrong

optimusprime21 · April 2008

Hello all, I want to get your opinion on a deal I am getting ready to do on a CPO BMW. Here are the details:

40k miles
Cold Weather Package
Premium Package
Heated Steering Wheel
Navigation
Bluetooth

We are at $27.5 in the negotiations. I think the dealer can do more but they insist they can't. Do you think this is a good deal?

shipo · April 2008

I stand corrected.

Buying a used 5 Series

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