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Volkswagen Passat Oil Changes & Issues

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ummm, ahem... WORD! :shades:
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    VW, in their infinite wisdom, took down the link that you quoted from me. Incredibly shortsighted, IMHO, on VW's part, but really not a surprise, if you've watched their customer service.
  • stingray7868stingray7868 Member Posts: 5
    I just dropped off my 02 passat at the local VW dealer with a low oil pressure, stop car warning light. I read in other car forums that this is a very commom problem with all 1.8 Turbo engines,and that VWoA was extending their powertrain warranty to 8 years regardless of mileage to correct this problem. Anyone else had the same problem?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    While I'm not sure what the specific mileage limits and such with the extended warranty are, I do know that many folks who've not been able to prove that the 5,000 mile Oil Change Interval has been complied with AND that oil used at every oil change met at least the VW 502.00 oil specification, have been denied coverage.

    If you engine is indeed sludged, be prepared to prove that you've met the maintenance requirements of the engine by showing every receipt for every oil change since the car was new.

    Good luck and keep us posted.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • vw27278vw27278 Member Posts: 29
    Just curious... What % of 1.8T engine fail b/c of the sludge problem? If so, how much is this going to cost me to replace my engine, since I'm a DIY'er?

    thanks
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    I've never seen a failure rate posted for sludged Passat engines, but I'd sure be interested in hearing a number.
  • vw27278vw27278 Member Posts: 29
    I guess I should've worded this differently... Is it common for these engines to fail due to sludge issues, or is it just something that happens to the cheapos (like me - am switching to 503.01 though) that use 10w-30?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Regarding the 1.8T sludge failures. Disclaimer, I do not and have not had one of these engines. That said, it is my understanding that the primary cause of the sludging stems from using oil that isn't up to the task at hand. Then again, there seems to be a contributing factor that kind of falls under the loose heading of "driving environment". It seems that engines that have a lesser oil in the pan and are driven on lots of short trips and/or spend lots of time in stop and go traffic get sludged more easily than others. Are there any statistics out there? Probably, but my bet is that VWoA and Audi own them and they ain't talkin'.

    Regarding a DIY job on your engine, it might actually make for an interesting line of work (or maybe a sideline). I spent some time a couple of months back browsing the net for 1.8T overhaul parts, and no matter how I added things up, I never exceeded $2,000 for the parts. Figure maybe 40-50 hours of labor (once you've done a few maybe even less), and you can sell the engine for between $6,000 and $8,000. Hmmm...

    Personally I've actually toyed with the idea of snooping through the bone yards for a couple of long block 1.8Ts, doing a nice thorough rebuild and seeing what the market will bear. Good luck and keep us posted of you decide to dive in. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Sludge is probably a misnomer for what is happening to some of the 1.8Ts. It's more a coking problem (although I have seen photos of some really gummed up engines). The oil cokes in the high heat of the turbo, forming hard granules. These then get caught in the oil pickup screen in the sump and also in the flow path to the variable timing hardware. The engine becomes starved for oil.

    Leading causes are:
    1) Incorrect oil - using non-synthetic is reeeallly bad. Using incorrect spec synth is bad.

    2) Incorrect oil change interval - If you carefully read the later owner's manuals from the B5.5 Passat (2001.5 model and newer), you'll realize that the 5,000 mile oil change sited is the maximum distance VWoA recommends. There is some small print about severe use (which they leave completely undefined) may require more frequent changes. Unlike other manuals that specify what severe use and what the recommended OCI should be under severe use, VW's manual is silent on both.

    3) Incorrect volume of oil: VWoA issued an addendum to their owner's manual that recommends/requires the use of a larger oil filter than originally spec'd for the car. Aftermarket filter cross reference manuals haven't caught up with this change (the last time I checked). The new filter is actually an older filter that VW used on their older diesel engines. The larger filter increase the total oil volume in the engine.

    4) Driving Style: Running the engine hard and then shutting down on a hot turbo contributes to the coking issue. I live at the top of a long hill that I take at about 45 mile per hour - I always let the engine run at idle for at least two minutes to cool down the turbo. Why that amount of time? One night I pulled in and immediately popped the hood - the turbo was subtly glowing red. It took at least two minutes at idle for the glow to dissipate.

    So. What to do? Run synthetic oil that meets at least VW spec 502.00, preferably the higher, newer specs. Use the larger filter. Watch the oil level like a hawk and keep it up to the upper fill mark. Change your oil within the 5,000 mile OCI, possibly well within it. Let the turbo cool down after running it hard. Follow these rules like an ancient religious text and you should be able to avoid sludging the 1.8T.

    They are quite a few high mileage (>100K) 1.8T Passats with owners on other dedicated Passat forums. Some follow these rules more closely than others.
  • vw27278vw27278 Member Posts: 29
    Just curious, what are the first signs of a sludge problem?

    I have 93K miles, 2003 GLS, 1.8T.

    thanks
  • 82usma82usma Member Posts: 6
    Reposting this from another topic.

    I got my 06 passat with 2.0T FSI engine in Nov'05. Up until about a week ago I had no problems with oil consumption. I would need to add a quart about once every 10K miles.

    Last week my oil pressure warning came on while entering the highway on-ramp. The light went off as soon as I got off the ramp. When I got home, I found that my oil was 2.5 qts low! This morning, I checked my oil again and found that I was 1.5 qts low. I had only driven ~500 miles.

    There are no signs of any external leaks or smoke from the tail pipe. Does anyone know why I should be using so much oil all of a sudden?
  • joemama33joemama33 Member Posts: 26
    I have a 2001.5 Passat 1.8L and a poster above asserted the oil change intervals specified for this car are 5000 miles. While I agree this is prudent, the manual actually reads:

    Oil Change service:
    at 5000 miles (8000km)

    and then at 15,000 miles, 25,000 miles, 35,000 miles, etc.

    This is demonstrably a 10,000 mile interval and could be what led to a lot of these problems as VW dealers were only changing the oil under the "Free for Three" program that was part of the sale of 01.5 Passats, wherein the dealer provided free oil changes for the first three years (with dino oil) but ONLY at specified intervals. :lemon:
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    That's interesting, because my manual is clearly different.

    The engine code for the 2001.5 1.8T and my 2003 model is the same...AWM. In Booklet 1.1, in my owner's manual, it plainly shows a maximum oil change interval every 5,000 miles, both in the detailed service maintenance schedule and in the abbreviated version at the front of the section.

    This is confirmed in the Bentley Service Manual and VW's website for the maintenance schedule:

    http://www.vw.com/dealer/MaintenanceSchedulesQuery.do?year=2001&engineCode=1.8T&carModel=PASSAT&TEMPLATENAME=maintenanceComplete&output=print
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hopefully altair4 can clarify this, however, it is my understanding that VWoA came out with a new oil change requirement and oil standard requirement for pre 2003 cars and that the new requirements were supposed to be retroactive back to the late 1990s.

    Said another way, true, your manual may show a 10,000 mile OCI, but it really should be 5,000 per the change. FWIW, what does you manual show for the oil requirements? Does it specify 502.00? Does it specify a weight (i.e. 5W-30)?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    That's about right, Shipo. I received a letter from VWoA about the oil requirement change, and a supplement to my owner's manual about the 502.00 spec. The original documents that came with my 2003 still had the 5,000 OCI, but a different VW Spec (don't have it in front of me, but I'll post something later).

    But I recall when my first oil change was due in early '03, once I read through all of the requirements, I bought 5w-40 synthetic for the change (actually used Valvoline Synpower 5w-40). But the manual is phrased poorly. I'll see if I can post a scan of it.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Thanks for the update. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    Disclaimer, I do not and have not had one of these engines.

    I got your back on this one, Shipo... :shades:

    I own a pair of 2003 1.8Ts. I followed the VW 502.00 spec, and change intervals to a T. And you know what happened? NOTHING. No problems, both cars are still running like a top (just by properly driving and maintaining them - IMAGINE THAT!!).

    My experience with synthetic oil goes back to the early 1980s when I was a C-141 (cargo aircraft) crew chief in the Air Force. The first maintenance item performed once these birds hit the ground was to check the oil on the Pratt & Whitney TF-33-P7 turbofan engines. Back then the synthetic oil came in the old-school quart cans.

    Since then, I've applied the Air Force maintenance discipline to every automobile I've owned - and it has paid dividends in vehicle longevity....
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Thanks for the backup. ;-)

    "Back then the synthetic oil came in the old-school quart cans."

    Too funny. Over the last week or so I've been doing the head gaskets on our old van and was rummaging deep within one of my tool boxes and came across a late 1970s vintage chrome plated self-skewering oil spout for those old quart cans. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    I have one of the old-style oil spouts, too. I can still remember the sound it made when piercing the top of the can. Dang, I'm old....
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Here are a couple of excerpts from my '03 Owner's Manual:

    Abbreviated Service Schedule
    image

    Original Oil Specifications
    image

    Oh, and I found VW's definition of severe use: "Under some circumstances the engine oil should be changed more often if you drive mostly short distances, operate the vehicle in dusty areas or under predominantly stop-and-go traffic conditions, or have your vehicle where temperatures remain below freezing for extended periods."

    Basically, I fall into two of those categories and this is why I aim for a 4,000 mile OCI.
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Here are images of the supplement that I received in the mail along with the "sludge" letter:

    Supplement Page 1
    image

    Supplement Page 2
    image

    I don't know why VWoA took down the "sludge" pamphlet and the list of approved oils from their website. It's not doing the consumer any favors....
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    Good Info. I'll check the manual in the 03 Passat for this section.

    I don't know why VWoA took down the "sludge" pamphlet and the list of approved oils from their website. It's not doing the consumer any favors....

    That is a question that will give a headache to some of the greatest sages, philosophers, and thinkers throughout history... :sick:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, well that's a first...

    This is the first time I've ever seen a recommendation for 503.01 for anything other than the "W" engines or the high strung four banger Audi TT engines. Hmmmm...

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    altair4 has a scanner ;-)

    Krzys
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Yeah, I'm a busy bee, too....
  • mianickmianick Member Posts: 2
    Hi all! New to the forums. I'm looking at buying a 2.0T Wolfsburg 2007 and doing some research before I commit. I'm reading a lot about these oil issues, sludge, warrantees, and dealers using the wrong oil!!!(that's amazing to me). My question for you experts out there is this:

    If I change my own oil with say Mobile1 & filters from germanfilters.com, will I void the warrantee? If i document the oil changes on a log I keep, will that hold up in court if I have a warrantee issue?

    I can't believe that if i buy a Passat, I'll have to stand over the mechanic to make sure they pour the right stuff in!
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    You wrote:
    I have a 2001.5 Passat 1.8L and a poster above asserted the oil change intervals specified for this car are 5000 miles. While I agree this is prudent, the manual actually reads:

    Oil Change service:
    at 5000 miles (8000km)

    and then at 15,000 miles, 25,000 miles, 35,000 miles, etc.

    I've seen a scan of the 2000 model year manual - it clearly states a 5,000 mile OCI - and I've been told that the 2001 (pre-facelift) is identical. image

    So either VW changed from 5K in 2000 & 2001 to 10K in 2001.5 and then back again by 2003 (always possible, since many of us have come to understand that VW stands for Varies Widely), or you're reading the schedule for another engine and/or model. It's possible - my manual lists an abbreviated schedule for Golfs, Jettas and New Beetles (no idea why!) in the beginning of Section 1.1 in my manual. The transverse engines, with their larger oil sumps, apparaently got the a longer OCI. The longitudinal engines with their marginal sumps (under 4 quarts in OEM trim) were inadequate for that distance.
  • philsfan76philsfan76 Member Posts: 2
    i have a twofold question-
    1) does anyone know the entire procedure to perform this repair- i.e what would be done by a dealer?

    2) would you buy one of these cars right after the procedure has been performed- this passat is a 2001 1/2 model year with 64k miles on it- new pads/ rotors front and rear and 4 new Michelins- all for $8200.

    Thoughts?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Can't say that I've heard of a "Repair Procedure" per-se, that is other than the complete replacement of the engine that is. You might want to find a local independent mechanic who is familiar with sludged VW/Audi engines and then arrange to take the car by him before you decide to buy it. Minimally I would suspect that a decent mechanic would pull the oil pan and the valve cover and inspect the pickup screen and the valve train (respectively) to get a feel for the condition of the engine.

    Better spend a couple of hundred to have the car put under a microscope before you buy than to have to dump another $8,000 on a new engine after you buy.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    I guess it depends when they caught the problem. If early enough, I've heard they pull the oil pan, clean/replace the oil pickup screen, replace the oil lines to the turbo, and then perform two oil changes. I think there's a TSB on this...if I can find it, I'll post the details.

    If it's caught very late, then the engine is trashed.

    It's not easy to pull the oil pan on the 1.8T in the Passat application. The longitudinal layout results in a subframe being located under the pan. You need to lift/support the engine to pull the pan. So it won't be cheap to have inspection Shipo recommends (doesn' negate the value of the suggestion, though).

    Personally, I don't think I'd be that interested in that car without some sort of warranty.
  • philsfan76philsfan76 Member Posts: 2
    it caused a Check engine light to come on- anyone know the main causes for this with the sludge issue?
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Did it throw a MIL or did throw a big "STOP!" on the display in the center of the cluster?

    Dunno what the code would be on the former, but if it was the latter, it's the low oil pressure warning.
  • joemama33joemama33 Member Posts: 26
    Cause # 1: Using dino (non-synthetic) oil.
    # 2 Adhering to the manual's 10k oil service interval (too long)
    # 3: 3.5 qts. oil capacity.

    Taken together, they are the perfect storm.
    :sick:
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    You wrote:
    # 2 Adhering to the manual's 10k oil service interval (too long)

    Did you see my posts (#126 and #133) in this thread? I'm not sure where the 10K interval came from that you mentioned. Any chance you could scan the portion of your manual showing a 10K interval? It would be really helpful to show VW's vascillation on their OCI policy.
  • jknollsjknolls Member Posts: 6
    When I checked oil level yesterday after 5000 miles, the oil was very low, almost at the min level. Jiff lube measured it to be 0.5 qt. What the heck? Is this normal for VW? If not, how dangerous is this to the engine? I have 30k on the car (2006 passat 2.0T). I'm using the fully synthetic 5W-30.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    A few comments:

    1) Being down a half of a quart after 5000 miles is EXCELENT oil mileage.
    2) Engines MUST use some oil to properly lubricate themselves. If they don't, engine longevity will be sacrificed.
    3) Please tell me that you aren't using Jiffy Lube for your car. The chances of them using the proper oil and filter for your engine are somewhere between slim and none.
    4) PLEASE read through the posts in this discussion: pat, "Volkswagen Passat Oil Changes & Issues" #1, 13 Mar 2006 12:52 pm

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • jknollsjknolls Member Posts: 6
    I'm not down 0.5 qt - the total amount left was 0.5 qt.
    I'd prefer to go to VW for oil changes but they make me leave my car with them all day which is ridiculous for an oil change.
  • cosmocosmo Member Posts: 203
    Wow! I assume you followed the advice in the owner's manual, "...we urge you to check the oil level in your engine at regular intervals, preferably every time you refuel, and always before going on a long trip", and you used that much oil driving on one tank of gas. There is definitely a problem.
  • jknollsjknolls Member Posts: 6
    No. This wasn't after just one tank of gas, it was after 5000 miles.
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Now wait a minute...something's not right here. You've reported that the oil was at the minimum mark on the dip stick. Do you mean the bottom of the hashmarks, or do you mean the absolute bottom of the stick?

    'Cause if you meant the bottom of the hashmarks, it's maybe a quart or less to get to the top of the hashmarks. I don't know what the sump capacity is for the 2.0T engine, but do the math, if you have that figure.

    And given that you got the report from Jiffy Lube and they simply open the sump into a catch basin, how did they establish with any degree of certainty that there was 0.5 quarts left in the engine?

    Do yourself a favor -
    1) Don't go to Iffy Lube anymore with this car - they'll not give it the TLC it requires.
    2) Do check your oil more frequently.
    3) Read up and use the correct oil. I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that 5w-30 Synth is not meeting VW's spec for this engine.
    4) Read you owner's manual - that will save you an enormous amount of grief in dealing with your Dub.
  • spawnmanspawnman Member Posts: 19
    I thought the 10k oil change interval was long too, but here it is from VW's website and I have confirmed it's in the manual also.

    PASSAT Vehicle Maintenance Schedule
    Year: 2006 Engine: 2.0FSI

    Miles (in Thousands) 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100
    Kilometers (in Thousands) 8 16 24 32 40 48 56 64 72 80 89 97 105 113 121 129 137 145 153 161
    Engine Oil - change x x x x x x x x x x x
    Engine Filter - change x x x x x x x x x x x

    Wow that came out like crap, anyways look it up on vw.com and it does state every 10k miles
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Back on July 4, Joemama said:
    I have a 2001.5 Passat 1.8L and a poster above asserted the oil change intervals specified for this car are 5000 miles. While I agree this is prudent, the manual actually reads:

    Oil Change service:
    at 5000 miles (8000km)

    and then at 15,000 miles, 25,000 miles, 35,000 miles, etc.

    While I haven't been able to view a scan of the 2001.5 owner's manual, I have provided scans of the other owner's manuals that clearly say the 1.8T has a 5,000 mile maximum OCI. Assuming that Joemama is in the USA or Canada, the 1.8 in the Passat is a turbo.

    The newer 2.0T is a different story. I'm familiar with the 1.8T and its needs - I don't have, and probably won't ever have, the 2.0T. The OCI you are quoting from VW's website is for the 2.0T.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    #4 - Taking your car to Jiffy Lube or any quick lube (BIG MISTAKE)
  • jknollsjknolls Member Posts: 6
    agreed, taking my car to jiffy lube was definitely a mistake.
    it wasn't the absolute bottom. when i checked the oil right before the change (after 5k miles), oil was at the bottom of the hashmarks, covering the bottom (MIN) portion of the dipstick completely. i'm just trying to figure out how much oil loss that is and how much damage, if any, it could have done to the car.
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    I haven't seen the '06 manual, but check it...it might tell you how much oil it takes to cover the hashmarks. Regarding damage - taking your comment at face value of where the oil was on the stick and the length of time between changes - there probably wasn't any at all.

    I still think Iffy Lube was talking out of their, ummm, exhaust pipe when they said only 0.5 quarts in the engine. With only 1/2 a quart, the oil light would have been on for a long time. Heh, probably the check engine light, too, becasue the engine would have seized!
  • mjr2mjr2 Member Posts: 1
    I'm having the same experience with my '07 (purchased in March '06) 2.0T wagon. It has about 33,000-miles now and has consumed about 3-quarts of oil every 5,000-miles since day-one. I bring this up with the dealer every time I bring it in for service and they claim that this oil consumption rate is "within spec." I've spoken with VW Customer Service who say they can send me a copy of this spec, but spec-or-no-spec, I simply can't buy that this is normal. I'm very concerned about what is going to happen down the road.
  • salter13salter13 Member Posts: 2
    I've got a 2.0T coming up on its 5,000 mile scheduled oil/filter change. After reading the owner's manual and all the preceding posts, I certainly want to put the superior oil in that meets the 503.1 specs. I've asked several dealers and private garages in my neighborhood if they would put this oil in and the overwhelming response has been something to the effect of "you'll get the oil we put in and you'll like it" - 502 oil at best. No one seems interested in my quest for 503.1 oil, they just want to know if I want to make an appointment. Have others experienced/overcome this problem?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Go to Wallyworld, AutoZone or NAPA and buy some Mobil 1 0W-40 and then take it to your favorite shop and have them use it. Then again, you might want to change our own oil, it's pretty easy.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    I've been doing what Shipo recommended (bringing my own oil) since the first oil change on my '03 model. No problem.
  • salter13salter13 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks to both Shipo and Altair4 for your responses. I'd greatly prefer to change it myself, but living in NYC makes it difficult (no garage/driveway!) and I'm concerned about voiding the warranty. I'll hunt around for a dealer that will let me bring in the Mobil 1.
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