Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow?

gagrice · May 2006

We started to grow sugar beets on my dad's farm in upstate NY

You of all people should know what happens when the government sticks their nose into farm business. I think sugar beets would probably be better than corn. I have no problem with making ethanol from low polluting bio sources. Corn and sugar cane the two prominent sources are both bad for the environment. The distillerys being built for corn are not going to be converted to biomass such as switchgrass. The newest corn stills are using coal to fire them as it is about 1/6th the cost of natural gas fired plants.

Last: CA being forced to use ethanol is costing us about $3.30 per gallon. We are one of the 28 states that have been polluted by the last EPA mandate, the now banned MTBE.

fireball1 · May 2006

"I am at a a loss for words that ethanol may be harmful to the environment as you state."

You continuously overlook all the inputs that go into growing corn and processing the ethanol. Corn is, by far, the most environmentally destructive crop in this country. It consumers gargantuan amounts of water, something that is becoming in short supply throughout the country, especially the Midwest and West. There have been numerous enterprise stories done on the pollution that ethanol plants create, both the air and water. This is not breaking news. In fact, environmental standards may be weakened for ethanol plants I find it incredible that ethanol backers conveniently discard well-known truisms. Subsidy-driven overproduction of corn drains our groundwater supplies, pollutes that same water with nitrate fertilizer and erodes our topsoil faster than any other crop. The making of corn ethanol requires huge volumes of water, too. Many corn ethanol plants are switching from natural gas to coal to power the stuff. Tell me that coal doesn't pollute! And, of course, ethanol in gas reduces mileage. And oh, by the way, E-10 is selling for four cents higher than regular unleaded in parts of Nebraska. So I'm supposed to buy more expensive fuel, that gets decreased mileage, whose fuelstuff wrecks our environment? Nobody's defending oil, but the renewability of ethanol is a myth -- until corn is dropped out of the equation.

seniorjose · May 2006

The most environmentally destructive crops in the US are grown with the polluted evaporating waters of the Columbia river, Who needs most of the garbage products of the CA dessert? None of us!

Gee...short supply of water...not here in the midwest! Now towns like Tucson, or Phoenix using ground water that can never be replaced, will be ghost towns in not too many decades. If Nebraska refused to get on the Ethanol bandwagon so what? Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, etc have worked hard to try to build viable NOW solutions...ostrich states will always be with us. Coal does not pollute with scrubbers in the stacks and the use of hard coal, a technology that is some 40-50 years old - not even a concern. There are many, many coal fired power plants today throughout America.

If your E10 is selling higher than regular 89 octane gasoline, then Nebraska has been left far behind. Corn fuels our and the world's agriculture foodstuffs. There are of course, terribly ignorant farmers who will never see the advantage of anything except their own blinders and ignorance...myths abound as we see here in many of the nay-sayers fabricated "reports." Smart educated farmers are professional businessmen who are succeeding while others just whine and moan.

I do not see any topsoil erosion...we have contour farming and good land management. I'll have to go over to Nebraska sometime, I hope the countryside and farm practices are not as desperate as you say.

Nobody says that the West will be a Ethanol or Biodiesel environment...too little water for too many crops and people.

There may be an exodus to the better parts of the agricultural lands of the USA, just as we had in the past. Ethanol and Biodiesel are the fuels of the midwest, east and south...the historic centers of population in the USA. Population is centered around the East Coast megopolis, the south Atlantic and Gulf Coast and the Midwest. The Western ocean-hugging population centers are far from central distribution networks for many items, even on a good day.

Why the grumblers about corn ...people who do not know how to farm or hate corn flakes. The cultivated wide rows of the farmland of yesteryear are gone forever. Heck, here in Iowa, the farmers have to get a permit to even start a dairy farm, a pig farm or chicken farm. Yet, we do not stop milk, pork or chicken production. We need all of our basic farm products to keep a viable country. Of course CA has its one and only cow...chuckle!

Every TREE-HUGR likes to quote environmental standards..as if they care or even understand what an environmental standard is...most do not. They always try to quote some made-up environmental standards when there are none. Beware of them, they have been always with us and are the "know-nothings" of our nation. They don't want coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear, wind or crop energies developed or used...???? These obviously misguided people are really panicking because NOW renewable sources of energy are being used, not in some distant future of some questionable lab experiments...but NOW! Not in some Bin Laden hate-filled country that keeps sticking it to us, but viable solutions by Americans, for Americans here in America. If we cannot understand that, then we have lost the message of 9/11...we survive by American values on America's terms, not some Arab or South American terrorists.

gagrice · May 2006

Who needs most of the garbage products of the CA dessert? None of us!

You are kidding right? CA supplies 56% of the nations food. Not limited to most of the salad vegetables etc. WE eat very little that comes from the Midwest. Corn oil is not very healthy nor is corn syrup a mainstay of processed "junk food". We would all be healthier if the Midwest were to revert to family farms and grow organic vegetables and meat products.

I do not see any topsoil erosion...we have contour farming and good land management.

It is not what you see that hurts. The chemical fertilizers used to get those fantastic yields you are so proud of, leeches into the soil and the water table. It is obvious you did not read the NASA report on the "dead zone" caused by your state and several others. Just as you mention the Columbia River Dams causing big problems. So is the out of control race to grow corn for ethanol. You are obviously not concerned about the overall damage being done. You probably don't even like the seafood that is being destroyed. Being from Iowa you only eat Pork. I like Pork also. I don't eat as much as I used to. I hate the way it is raised in mega facilities in Iowa & other states. The saddest part is when the land is all laid waste and the greedy mega farmers pull out you will wonder what happened. By the way most of the crops in the CA desert are grown from Colorado River water not the Columbia. That is Washington, Oregon and Idaho that use Columbia River water for power and irrigation.

Oh, and our CA cow is very productive. She gave enough milk for 2 billion pounds of cheese last year. Plus enough milk & milk products to export to other states.

I don't want to hear any whining when oil drops to $40 per barrel and ADM shuts the ethanol stills down. Whether you believe it or not ADM is making you a one crop state. It would be much less traumatic if you were diversified.

seniorjose · May 2006

E85 price was reduced 85 cents a gallon...makes it about $2.00 a gallon or less here in Iowa or Minnesota....NOW, not 50 years in the future like hydrogen power!

seniorjose · May 2006

The whole country worries about increased CAFE standards and gas mileage and the counterproductive Texans increased their speed limits to 80 MPG...must be they need the increased speed to get more illegal aliens across our borders! Crazy signs of the times!

fireball1 · May 2006

I have never heard from anyone outside the coal industry claim that coal is NOT an environmental concern. Coal is cheap, and that's about it. If natural gas becomes the next monkey on our back, like oil, we're headed down the coal road for ethanol and that is bad news for all. Until we can make ethanol with ethanol, transport corn and ethanol with ethanol, and grow corn with fertilizers made from something other natural gas, corn ethanol is not an attractive option, short or long term. It seems to me the evidence against corn ethanol grows almost daily. Just this week, the president of the Nebraska Farmers Union -- a huge ethanol booster -- bemoaned the fact that more and more Nebraska ethanol plants are owned and operated by big agribiz. That defeats the entire ethanol case, he said.

BTW, there are active and strong anti-ethanol groups in both Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Minnesota has mandated ethanol use in all cars -- nothing like the free market at work, eh?

On the water deal, you may be sitting OK in Iowa, but the Great Plains may be a generation from serious problems. Already many communities in Nebraska are searching for clean water miles away, thanks to the nitrate contamination of groundwater from -- you guessed it -- growing and irrigating subsidy-driven corn on semi-arid land that gets about 15-16 inches of rain a year. In the western half or third of Nebraska, it has become almost like a desert in places. Still, the center pivots keep merrily plundering the aquifer. I detect the tide turning against them, and other Midwest farmers. Witness the outrage over the proposal to give farmers another subsidy break with fuel costs. Why do they deserve that and other, transportation-heavy businesses get no consideration?

On the price of ethanol blends: E-10 has, at times, been higher than unleaded in other states besides Nebraska. Colorado and Kansas have been through that. What I also find intriguing is that ethanol makers claim that the price of ethanol has nothing to do with the price of gas/oil. The University of Nebraska studied that issue and, over the past 25 years, it found that the prices were linked throughout. It is an intriguing graph if you can track it down. This likely won't change -- when the price of oil goes up, the price of corn ethanol will go up.

Another interesting scenario: There is 5 percent LESS corn planted by U.S. farmers this year. Why? Because of the rapidly rising cost of nitrate fertilizer. In the ethanol and corn lobbies' grand scheme to boost the production of ethanol, there will be less corn in the future for the cattlefeeding/HFCS/ethanol kitty. I foresee crazy things happening with ethanol in the next 3-4 years because this hasn't been thought out too well. Hopefully, cellulose can get online quicker than anticipated.

I dare not mention CAFE standards, the easiest way to ease our dependence on foreign oil. That argument is much too simple and too true to go anywhere with the corn ethanol people. Like many things, they simply ignore it and play on people's fears of Mideast terrorism. Frankly, I don't see a huge connection between 9/11 and our oil crisis. I find it sad that many people push their pet issues -- ethanol being one of them -- with the scare tactic that we don't want another 9/11.

gagrice · May 2006

Minnesota has mandated ethanol use in all cars

Having owned a farm in MN for the last 30 years I can attest to the fact it is one of the most regressive states in the Union. Super High taxes and little or no benefits. Only thing going for it is decent fishing. Until they kill all the fish with over fertilization.

Thank you for all your vital information. It is good to see others not blinded by ADM money & an easy fix to a very complex problem. NOW if we can just get congress off the Mega Ag payroll, and pull their heads out of you know where, we might be able to shut down this evil ethanol juggernaut.

fireball1 · May 2006

More on mandates, etc.:

"State government shouldn't intrude in the free market by setting an ethanol-blend gasoline mandate, [Colorado] Gov. Bill Owens said Friday."
-- From "Ethanol bill one of 18 veto casualties," by John Fryar, in the May 27, 2006 Daily Times-Call of Longmont, CO, at: http://www.longmontfyi.com/Local-Story.asp?id=7916

Colorado now joins Wisconsin, California, and Idaho among states rejecting laws that would have forced drivers to buy and pump ethanol into their cars.

Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell wants to pass a law by July 31 forcing drivers to buy ethanol in every gallon of gasoline sold in that state.

"Representatives from GM, Ford and other automakers warned that any blend with more than 10 percent ethanol can corrode parts on a conventional vehicle."
-- From "Automakers Warn Consumers About E85 Blend," by Dee-Ann Durbin, in the May 23, 2006 Baltimore Sun, at:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/-
business/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-flex-fuel-vehicles,0,883554.story

fireball1 · May 2006

Hmmm ... it seems as though the Iowa Environmental Council is not big on corn ethanol:

www.iaenvironment.org/documents/BiofuelsAdvisory1-26-06.pdf

gagrice · May 2006

I am far from being someone that would lay down in front of a cat that was clearing land for a nuclear facility. It does not take a lot of research to see just how much damage these enhanced crops of corn for ethanol will do to the environment. Grow corn with organic fertilizers and rotate crops, and I am all for it. I am curious do they rotate crops on these mega farms? We would only plant corn about every 5 years, doing it in a civilized manner. Using alfalfa for 3-4 years to replenish the nitrogen sucked out by the corn.

It is reminiscent of the early days in the oil business, when no one was over seeing the operation. Spew a few thousand barrels into the Gulf no big deal. It is the same today in the ethanol business. No checks and balances on this bunch of corn growing cowboys.

seniorjose · May 2006

Excuse me...gagrice, we all understand your undeniable hatred of all things American -- agriculture, farmers, agribusiness, and your lack of understanding how the United States Government and the democratic election of our public officials work -- they who serve the people...I am sorry, that is our type of government...our farmers, urbanites, suburbanites and city dwellers try to work very hard together to make this country work for ALL Americans. If you don't like it, vote and if you are in the minority, you lose!

Your being totally enamored of big oil and their heavy handed tie-in to the Middle Eastern Muslim America-haters is a bit puzzling. Nobody in this country, nobody, does not believe that 9/11 was not linked to our current oil prices.

Your absence of even being upset of big Middle Eastern oil cartels and traders and your so obvious hatred of all that we are trying to do in this country is a bit confusing. If you really hate this country so much and the democracy rule of the majority, then I suggest you do a bit of light reading and quit upsetting yourself so much, quit reading the forum. Calm down, you are taking shots against Minnesota and the USA on other forums as well, this is a discussion, not a diatribe against our form of government! It is not appropriate to an E85 discussion.

john500 · May 2006

Has anyone done a cost analysis comparing the production of ethanol using corn fermentation versus "synthetic" ethanol from the hydration of ethylene? Who is to say that Dow Chemical and Equistar won't increase the plant capacity of petroleum derived ethanol and rake in some of the government subsidy? Talk about a slap in the face to the ethanol mandate.

A few weeks ago I saw a Dateline NBC or 60 minutes show detailing how Brazil is using ethanol successfully. The TV show indicated that two keys to their success was the use of sugar cane to obtain ethanol and a much lower transporation fuel usage (the number quoted was something like 5 % the usage of a US consumer on a per capita basis). I was reading some more about Brazil and I saw something quite astonishing. Over 95 % of their domestic energy is supplied by hydroelectric power. Wow. Now that is what you call investing in infrastructure to sustain an economy that does not rely heavily upon oil. All this time the US population has been sitting around on aging, obsolete plants and investing abroad to "save labor costs" and the "third world" will be poised to economically displace the US within 20 years. It's almost embarrassing to be a US citizen watching our enlightened leaders come up with knee-jerk solutions. Oh well. I think I'll support the ethanol industry some more and go have a beer.

gagrice · May 2006

Calm down, you are taking shots against Minnesota and the USA on other forums as well

I would be interested to know who is using my name in other discussions. You are using every tactic to try to convince us that ethanol in its current form is good for America. I am trying equally as hard to show the facts concerning ethanol. It is not good for the environment. I am not thrilled that we are tied to countries that hate us anymore than you are. I just don't want to destroy our environment to make a statement against these other countries. Not all Middle East countries hate us. That is irrelevant to this discussion.

So far you have not posted any documentation supporting your wild claims about ethanol. Myself and others have posted credible studies showing just how damaging corn is to the environment. Your only defense of ethanol is it is better than the other fuel sources. I would say you are making money off of ethanol and that is your sole reason for backing it.

Canadians not thrilled with more ethanol mandates.

While "Mother Nature's motor fuel" is looked on by politicians as a feel-good product, in reality it will likely add to the fuel-cost burden for ordinary Canadians. And because of the number of litres of gasoline and diesel burned to produce one litre of ethanol, it quickly makes the environmental argument a very weak one.

Ethanol is not everything that the politicians would have us believe.

Ethanol in Canada

PS
I have never missed voting in a major election since 1964 when I turned 21 and was allowed to vote. Not all have gone my way. I will vote against the politicians pushing the ethanol boondoggle onto the American people. I have already written them letters to that effect.

gagrice · May 2006

National Geographic on ethanol.

Producing corn-based ethanol, for example, uses energy from oil and electricity for everything from growing the corn to powering the boilers in the ethanol plant.

Often the amount of ethanol created is equal to or less than the amount of fossil fuels needed to run the facility

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/ethanol-1.html

seniorjose · May 2006

Canada and Mexico have their own severe social,political and criminal problems...our borders are being sealed and that should tell you something. Canada has become only a very large trading partner...nothing more and nothing less. We are talking about the USA getting into new areas not anyone in Mexico or Canada and what they think!

jkinzel · May 2006

Squeeze play for ethanol
Flexible-fuel cars a hot topic, but a long way from consumer mainstream
By Stephanie I. Cohen
Last Update: 7:16 PM ET May 29, 2006
From CBS Marketwatch.com

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Lawmakers and automakers, confronted with irate consumers facing record gasoline prices and with criticism over U.S. dependence on oil, have orchestrated a vigorous push to bring more alternative fuels such as ethanol to local service stations and put more flexible-fuel vehicles on the road.
But not everyone is on board with the pro-ethanol fervor that has gripped Washington and Detroit. Critics note that flexible-fuel vehicles account for just 2% of the registered vehicles on the road and running them on ethanol would hardly make a dent in gasoline consumption.
Almost all of the flexible-fuel vehicles on the road today burn regular gasoline rather than ethanol. Part of the problem is infrastructure -- only about 700 of the roughly 180,000 retail gasoline outlets in the country offer ethanol-blended fuel, and a majority of those are located in the Midwest where ethanol production is concentrated, industry analysts said.
These vehicles are estimated to run on alternative fuels just 1% of the time, said Don MacKenzie, a vehicles engineer with the Union of Concerned Scientists.
Hoping to entice gasoline stations to install pumps that dispense biofuels such as ethanol, lawmakers have proposed refunds of up to $30,000 for new investments. Earlier this month, Ford Motor Co. Vice President Sue Cischke joined a bipartisan group of lawmakers in Washington to back proposed legislation to boost the number of service stations that sell ethanol-blended fuel.
"This legislation is an investment in our energy infrastructure that will help increase the availability of alternative fuels like E-85," said Sen. Jim Talent, R-Mo, a sponsor of the legislation.
The heads of the big three automotive companies -- Ford (F
DCX ) -- met with Republican and Democratic lawmakers after the introduction of the bill and pledged to build more flexible-fuel vehicles.
These vehicles can run on gasoline, ethanol, or a blend of the two often referred to as E-85. Fuel marketed as E-85 is made up of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Ethanol is an alcohol-based fuel primarily made from corn in the U.S.
"The CEOs discussed how alternative fuels like ethanol and advanced diesel can diversify America's transportation energy sources and called for greater availability of E-85 at the nation's gas pumps," the companies said in a joint statement following the meetings.
"We are 100% behind them," said Michelle Kautz, spokeswoman for the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition.
Consumers with flexible-fuel vehicles appear to be embracing ethanol where it is available, the group said. In Minnesota, sales of E-85 were up 320% for the first three months of 2006 versus the same period a year ago, according to the coalition. The state had 207 outlets dispensing ethanol-blended fuel at the end of March compared with 106 in 2005.
Funding infrastructure
The Alternative Refueling System Act of 2006 -- sponsored by Sens. John Thune, R-S.D., Ken Salazar, D-Colo., Barack Obama, D-Ill., and Talent -- is designed to extend that kind of availability. A version of the legislation has also been introduced in the House.
Under the Senate bill, gas stations could be reimbursed for 30% of the cost, up to $30,000, for each new fueling system they add that can dispense biofuel. Stations can apply for the reimbursement up to two times.
Retail stations can also tap a new federal income-tax credit if they install pumps that dispense biofuel. The tax credit, which was included in the energy bill passed by Congress last year, provides up to $30,000 per property for the installation of alternative fueling systems.
"We've been inundated with calls from [gasoline] retailers" interested in the tax credit, said Kautz.
There are currently about 5 million flexible-fuel vehicles in the U.S., out of the slightly more than 221 million vehicles registered, according to Federal Highway Administration.
The big three automakers produce the bulk of the flexible-fuel vehicles sold in the U.S. and have announced plans to roll out more in the coming years. In 2004, U.S. automakers made 674,678 flexible-fuel vehicles available, according to the Energy Information Administration, the statistical arm of the Energy Department. This was down from 859,261 made available in 2003.
General Motors has announced plans to add more than 400,000 vehicles to its fleet in 2006 that can run on ethanol. Ford will have put 2 million flexible fuel vehicles on the road by the end of 2006, according to the company.
Oil industry attacks ethanol support
Not everyone sees ethanol as a silver bullet.
"Flexible fuel vehicles can potentially be a piece of the puzzle, and an important piece of the puzzle," MacKenzie said. But he added that raising fuel economy standards for all vehicles, a proposal automakers have steadfastly opposed, would be a faster way to address oil consumption.
"Biofuels are promising and can replace some fuel use, but even development of cellulosic ethanol only has the potential to displace, at most, 10% to 20% of the world's oil demand," John German, manager of environmental and energy analyses for American Honda Motor Co., told a House panel last week. Honda has focused its efforts on developing hybrid and hybrid-electric vehicles.
Oil industry representatives attacked the latest wave of ethanol proposals as government largesse for a small segment of the automotive market.
"Ethanol already enjoys billions of dollars of federal subsidies each year paid by federal and state taxpayers," said Bob Slaughter, president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association.
"Frankly, enough is enough. We think Congress should replace irrational exuberance with reason in considering any other proposal that provides additional subsidies to ethanol," Slaughter added.

jkinzel · May 2006

The word "Diesel" appears one time in the post "Squeeze play for ethanol". It appears to have been replaced with the term "bio fuels" so we don't have to say that dirty 6 letter word.

gagrice · May 2006

Hopefully the Congress will do thorough research and not get hoodwinked into another tax subsidy. What I find interesting is the last energy bill protected the makers of MTBE against lawsuits. What happens when 10 years down the road we find out that this very corrosive ethanol is eating holes in the tanks of our nations service stations. Will that $30,000 subsidy become a $300,000 subsidy to clean up the environmental mess. Can they store E85 in conventional steel buried tanks? The E85 FFV has the following modifications to protect against the corrosive ethanol: Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon lined fuel hoses. I would imagine a stainless steel tank for a service station would be quite costly. One article suggested it would cost a station owner about $180k to add one E85 pump. How much is E85 selling for today? One regular poster reported this morning that regular unleaded is selling at $2.39 in parts of Ohio. Will an Iowa farmer pay an extra $10 for every 100 miles he drives his PU truck to support Ethanol in his state?

gagrice · May 2006

I'm not sure what your point may be. Are you saying you are not interested in the fact that the Canadians are building ethanol plants that use biomass such as wheat stalks or Switchgrass? They are planning to spend $350,000,000 to build just such a plant in Idaho. I get it, anything that might make Iowa corn ethanol less valuable is bad for America.

OTTAWA  Canada's Iogen Corp. is the best in the world at converting plant fibre into ethanol  today's hot alternative fuel  but the biotechnology leader could end up building its first commercial-scale operation in the United States if Ottawa doesn't match support offered by Washington.

"Right now the United States has laid out a very attractive, five-course banquet," said Jeff Passmore, executive vice-president of Ottawa-based Iogen.

Iogen news

seniorjose · May 2006

Foreign countries policies about using renewable resources here in the United States NOW or in the future are irrelevant to any discussion about E85 in the United States.

gagrice · May 2006

Only in your mind. You would like to eliminate Canada and Mexico from the ethanol equation. They are our number one and two suppliers of oil. Soon to be our number one supplier of Ethanol biomass technology. You can be in denial about what is reality. It does not change anything. You have not presented any credible evidence that supports any of your claims.

Also if the 54 cent per gallon tariff is lifted off of Ethanol, Brazil will flood the market. It costs Brazil half as much to produce ethanol with sugar cane as it does the US, using corn. Mexico would start growing crops for ethanol if the tariff goes away as proposed in Congress.

So your not being realistic when you try to close out our neighbors to the North and South.

jkinzel · May 2006

IPO REPORT
Ethanol flares as summer IPO trend
Hawkeye Holdings marks 3rd ethanol deal
By Steve Gelsi, MarketWatch
Last Update: 11:17 AM ET May 31, 2006

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Hawkeye Holdings has filed to raise up to $350 million in an initial public offering as ethanol emerges as a summer trend in the IPO market in the face of lofty gasoline prices.
Hawkeye Holdings marks the third ethanol deal to emerge in recent weeks after VeraSun fattened its IPO to $328 million from $150 million, and Aventine Renewable Energy filed its IPO.
The move in the IPO market corresponds with efforts in Washington, where new legislation is being proposed to boost the number of service stations selling gas with ethanol blended in.
All three deals have ties to big names on Wall Street as institutions line up to fuel the growth of ethanol with an eye on future profits.
Thomas H. Lee Partners took an 80% stake on May 11 in Hawkeye Holdings in a deal that valued the ethanol maker at about $1 billion.
Metalmark, a private-equity firm established by former principals of Morgan Stanley Capital Partners owns about 40% of Aventine.
VeraSun's shareholders include Eos Partners L.P., Bluestem Funds and Donald Endres, 45, chief executive officer and director of the company.
Hawkeye widens first-quarter profit
Hawkeye, which ranks as the third largest ethanol producer in the U.S. based on production capacity, said first-quarter net income rose to $6.8 million on revenue of $27.7 million, from net income of $1.4 million and revenue of $18 million in the year-ago period.
The Iowa Falls, Iowa company plans to trade on the New York Stock Exchange.
Hawkeye buys corn and converts it into ethanol, a type of grain alcohol. The company plans to break ground on a third plant in 2006 and a fourth in 2007.

gem069 · May 2006

E85 Cleared for Retail Sale in Florida
31 May 2006

E85 is now allowed for retail sale in the state of Florida. State fuel regulations have, until now, prohibited the sale of the 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline blend to the public. With the rules prohibiting public sale now changed, retailers must get their E85 infrastructure in place.

John Magwood, President of First Coast Biofuels, which supplies a handful of private fleets with E85 including the City of Jacksonville and Kennedy Space Center, says that Florida has about 400,000 flexible-fuel vehicles on its roads.

The National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (NEVC) worked with the state on the rules. The organization is in the midst of a similar effort in Arizona. (Earlier post.)

At this time, there are two Federally-accessed E85 locations in Florida. They include those on the campuses of Hurlburt Air Force Base and the Kennedy Space Center.

May 31, 2006 in Ethanol

mlbender · June 2006

I don't know where the EPA guy got his facts, but there are way more than 9 Ethanol plants in operation at this time, and many more planned than the 29 you mention. I live in South Dakota, and within the next 9 months there will be 2 Ethanol refineries within 30 miles of my residence producing 200 million gallons of ethanol per year.

As far as price goes, I'm with the "stick it to the Middle East crowd" My FF chevy gets about 12mpg in town, 14hwy on E85. I haven't run anything but E10 for the last 10 years either. At over $.50/gal savings, I think I'm pretty much a wash on $$$ savings. I'm willing to give up a few bucks a week to help out a "home grown" energy source.

jim314 · June 2006

What does this FF Chevy get city/hwy with E10? with regular not containing ethanol?

seniorjose · June 2006

There seems to be no significant difference between 87 Octane - no Ethanol and 89 Octane - 10% Ethanol! For average driving there seems to be no difference, although someone can straighten me out if they wish. Remember, Ethanol is NOW!

seniorjose · June 2006

What happens when 10 years down the road we find out that this very corrosive ethanol is eating holes in the tanks of our nations service stations.

Chuckle...point of fact...steel service station tanks have been replaced with Fiberglass due to the corrosive effects of gasoline. Millions are being spent NOW to replace the steel tanks that pollute ground water.

One regular poster reported this morning that regular unleaded is selling at $2.39 in parts of Ohio. Will an Iowa farmer pay an extra $10 for every 100 miles he drives his PU truck to support Ethanol in his state?

Surprise!...Ohio gasoline is one of the lowest prices in the USA...must be the taxes...this has been the case for the last few years that I am aware of. $10 extra to drive 100 miles...??? Lunch time ...I'll bring the bread for the sandwich!

seniorjose · June 2006

Additional ways to help remove foreign control over oil imports is to economize:

1. Increase CAFE standards by at least 20%
2. Go back to the 55 MPH national speed standards.
3. Increase fines to discourage NASCAR wannbees ($10,000 fine and auto confiscation for speed over 100MPH).
4. Add $1,000 a year tax on new V8s and $500 tax on V6s.

...and the list goes on and on and on...!

gagrice · June 2006

Mostly agree, except maybe the 55 MPH. You would have to live in a congested place to realize the impact on commute times with 55 MPH. I think your HP tax should be based on a HP to weight ratio. It should be tied into each purchase at the speed shop as well. I think that saving fuel should be rewarded no matter what fuel you use. I have no problem with E10 as long as it is not mandated. If it can be produced on a local basis and added to the gas without raising the price like it has in CA. I say fine. If someone wants to run E85 in their car go for it. The one big plus I see is 99.9% of the FFV are from the Big 3.

snakeweasel · June 2006

There seems to be no significant difference between 87 Octane - no Ethanol and 89 Octane - 10% Ethanol!

Most drivers should see about 5% less mileage with E10. To me that is significant enough.

snakeweasel · June 2006

4. Add $1,000 a year tax on new V8s and $500 tax on V6s.

So a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder Subaru Legacy with an automatic transmission that gets worse mileage than a V6 Toyota Camry doesn't get hit with the tax while the more efficent V6 does?

catam · June 2006

If you want to tax based on Engine size, HP, etc. use some commone sense. It would be much simpler to just tax based on EPA ratings. Draw some simple lines: ie >30 mpg no tax, 25 to 29 pay $500, 20-24 pay $1000, etc.

It makes no sense to me to tax a larger engine size if it more efficient.

gagrice · June 2006

It makes no sense to me to tax a larger engine size if it more efficient.

We do that with gas tax. The more you use the more you pay. I think what you have in mind is similar to the CAFE regulations. How they got around it was removing large vehicles from the regs.

Efficiency would have to be based on weight to mileage ratio. A GM fullsize PU truck is 30% heavier than a Camry XLE V6. Yet the much lighter Camry only gets about 22% better mileage than the fullsize PU Truck. The 5.3L V8 in the PU truck is much more efficient than the 3.5L V6 in the Camry. Plus the Camry has a much better drag coefficient.

So how many years before Toyota offers a Flex fuel Camry?

jim314 · June 2006

What is the octane rating of E85? If it's higher than regular gasoline, do the GM FFVs take advantage of the higher octane by say advancing the timing or any other means to increase efficiency? Or is it the case that the GM and other FFVs allow merely the engine to use E85?

gagrice · June 2006

It has nothing to do with octane rating. It has to do with BTUs of energy. An engine that runs on Premium gas does not get better mileage than one using regular.

1 U.S. Gallon of gasoline contains 114,132 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of no. 2 diesel fuel contains 138,000 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of ethanol contains 76,000 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of methanol contains 56,800 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of propane contains 84,500 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of compressed natural gas contains 19,800 btu

BTU values

seniorjose · June 2006

I have driven with E10 at 89 Octane and regular 87 Octane gas that is 10 cents a gallon more expensive than E10/gasoline mix...I drive it every day and have for the last three years. Iowa drivers like E10 as 80% of them use it instead of the lower octane regular gas. Most drivers here in Iowa do NOT notice any difference,..we are talking about NOW, not somebody trying to kill some future use of ethanol. We live it every day..NOW. The best answer is that we can slowly wean ourselves off a bit of oil...South America is now trying to hold us up on oil supplies an oil prices. It is time to do a kick start for the rest of the country to see if they can handle it...if not, then we will see many areas look like ghost towns.

gagrice · June 2006

Facts not fiction!

This all came about in 2002 before our fine Congress started getting the big lobby checks from Agri Business. A bunch of flip floppers they are.

We anticipate that there will be an increasing use of gasohol fuels, and corresponding reductions in gasoline consumption as States ban the use of MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) as a fuel additive. Since the Highway Account receives 15.44 cents per gallon of gasoline but only about 8 cents per gallon of gasohol, increases in gasohol use at the expense of gasoline consumption will result in a net reduction in Highway Account receipts. On net, for every billion gallons of gasohol sold in place of gasoline, Highway Account receipts are approximately $78 million lower. Approximately two-thirds of this negative effect on Highway Account receipts from the substitution of gasohol for gasoline is due to the ethanol tax incentive (currently 53 cents per gallon of ethanol, which at a 10 percent blend is 5.3 cents per gallon of gasohol). The remainder is attributable to the fact that the law dedicates a portion of gasohol tax receipts (typically 2.5 cents per gallon) to the General Fund.

http://epw.senate.gov/107th/Lyon_021102.htm

seniorjose · June 2006

NEVC National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition -- Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack signed a bill into law that is touted as being the most aggressive renewable fuels legislation in the country. The legislation is intended to boost availability of ethanol and biodiesel throughout the state. A 25% Iowa Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS) is the centerpiece of the comprehensive renewable fuels bill. With the Governors signature, Iowa is on the path to be the number one renewable fuels consuming state, stated Iowa Renewable Fuel Associaitons (IRFA) Executive Director Monte Shaw.  Iowa is already the ethanol and biodiesel production leader. Now we have the most aggressive renewable fuels usage policy of any state as well. IRFA has already been contacted by several states who want to follow in Iowas footsteps.

seniorjose · June 2006

National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (NEVC

What is E85?

E85 is the term for motor fuel blends of 85 percent ethanol and just 15 percent gasoline. E85 is an alternative fuel as defined by the U.S. Department of Energy. Besides its superior performance characteristics, ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline; it is a completely renewable, domestic, environmentally friendly fuel that enhances the nation's economy and energy independence.

Today, the U. S. imports more than half of its oil, and overall consumption continues to increase. By supporting ethanol production and use, U.S. drivers can help reverse that trend. 85% ethanol can reduce pollution. Government tests have shown that E85 vehicles reduce harmful hydrocarbon and benzene emissions when compared to vehicles running on gasoline. E85 can also reduce carbon dioxide (CO2), a harmful greenhouse gas and a major contributor to global warming.

Although CO2 is released during ethanol production and combustion, it is recaptured as a nutrient to the crops that are used in its production. Unlike fossil fuel combustion, which unlocks carbon that has been stored for millions of years, use of ethanol results in low increases to the carbon cycle.

Ethanol also degrades quickly in water and, therefore, poses much less risk to the environment than an oil or gasoline spill.

seniorjose · June 2006

National Ethanol Vehicle Cooperative (NEVC) - Dresser Wayne has introduced the industrys first approved E85 dispenser  the Dresser Wayne Vista  387. The pump is both approved by Underwriters Laboratories (UL) and the Weights and Measures Division of the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

The corrosive nature of the higher blend of alcohol in E85 requires its equipment to be different to that of gasoline equipment. Dresser Wayne is partnering with CleanFUEL USA, both members of the NEVC, to offer this certified E85 compatible dispenser to retailers.

In bringing certified dispensers to the market, we are able to offer retailers access to the E85 market with the reliability and investment protection of industry certification. At a time when legislation is providing significant economic incentives to E85 retailers, Dresser Wayne feels it is especially important to offer proven and certified equipment, said Scott Negley, Dresser Waynes director of product management.

We are very excited to partner with Dresser Wayne in offering this E85 certified dispenser, commented Curtis Donaldson, President of CleanFUEL USA and Chairman of the NEVC. This has been a milestone in the ethanol industry and CleanFUEL USA is proud to be a part of it. I would like to thank the NEVC for their assistance in this achievement. The NEVC provided funds that assisted in the certification process.

Dresser Waynes Ovation ® is planned to be certified in months to come.

seniorjose · June 2006

National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (NEVC) - Two Farmer Owned Coops Offer E85 Affordably in Missouri

Jefferson City , MO - MFA Oil Company and Mid-Missouri Energy announced today plans to offer E85 at a cost of 20 percent less than regular unleaded at many fueling stations across Missouri. The announcement was made at MFA Oil Company headquarters in Columbia, Missouri  the city which holds the most E85 stations per capita in the nation.

Our goal is to help educate consumers so that E85 becomes their fuel of choice, said Jerry Taylor, MFA Oil Company president.

Mid-Missouri Energy is working with MFA Oil to supply the product at a rate that will allow the retailer to sell it at this low cost. MFA Oil now offers E85 at 25 Break Time and Petro-Card 24 locations across the state and plans on doubling the number in months to come. The NEVC has assisted in the opening all MFA Oil E85 fueling sites.

MFA Oil will also offer E85 for $1.85 per gallon. One can also register to win a new flexible fuel vehicle Ford F-150 at each MFA Oil station. The vehicle will be given away at the Fire in the Sky celebration on July 4th in Columbia.

We are pleased to see two members of our coalition, MFA Oil Company and Mid-Missouri Energy, work closely to help Missourians obtain this renewable, locally grown fuel at a competitive price, commented Phil Lampert, Executive Director of the NEVC. We hope that this model where ethanol producers and ethanol retailers work in concert can be duplicated across the nation, thereby; ensuring that the final consumer will be able to take advantage of E85 priced 20 percent less than regular unleaded.

There are currently 58 E85 sites that are open or soon will be open in the state of Missouri. For a complete listing of these sites and all across the nation, visit www.E85Fuel.com.

seniorjose · June 2006

GM is manufacturing 400,000 vehicles equipped to handle E85 in 2006 to take advantage of the new 85% ethanol/ 15% gasoline mixtures. They will provide their GM staffs in Detroit with E85 dual use vehicles.

seniorjose · June 2006

2006

4.7L Dodge Durango
4.7L Dodge Ram Pickup 1500 Series
2.7L Dodge Stratus Sedan
2.7L Chrysler Sebring Sedan
3.3L Caravan & Grand Caravan SE

seniorjose · June 2006

2006

3.0L Ford Taurus sedan and wagon
4.6L Ford Crown Victoria
4.6L Mercury Marquis
4.6L Mercury Mariner
5.4L Ford F-150
4.6L Lincoln Town Car (2-valve)

seniorjose · June 2006

2007

5.3L V-8 engine Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra half-ton pickups 2WD & 4WD
5.3L Vortec-engine Avalanche, Suburban, Tahoe, Yukon & Yukon XL
3.5L Chevy Impala (LS, 1LT & 2LT)
3.5L Chevy Monte Carlo (LS and LT models only)

2006

3.5L Chevy Impala (LS, 1LT & 2LT)
3.5L Chevy Monte Carlo (LS and LT models only)

2005 - 2006

5.3L Vortec-engine Avalanche
5.3L Vortec-engine Police Package Tahoe*

2003 - 2006

5.3L V-8 engine Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra half-ton pickups 2WD & 4WD
5.3L Vortec-engine Suburban, Tahoe, Yukon and Yukon XLs

gagrice · June 2006

For years, conventional wisdom was that presidential candidates could not survive the first-in-the-nation caucuses in Iowa unless they supported subsidies for the corn-based ethanol fuel. But strategists say Iowa no longer is a single-issue state - if it ever was. At least one presidential hopeful intends to test the premise.

"Ethanol is very important, but Iowans are more sophisticated than that," said a former Iowa Republican chairman, Michael Mahaffey. "I think ethanol could be a bright part of Iowa's future, but it's only a part. I don't think there's going to be some kind of litmus test when it comes to presidential candidates."

Republican Sen. John McCain, an early front-runner in the 2008 sweepstakes, told Iowa audiences recently that he is opposed to all farm subsidies, including special deals for ethanol production.

That is not exactly what people are used to hearing from candidates, but it has not stopped the Arizona lawmaker from collecting some important early backing.

"I don't think it's a make or break issue," said Steve Roberts, a Des Moines lawyer who sits on the Republican National Committee.

Pragmatic Iowa caucus-goers take a lot into account when pondering their picks, strategists say.

Ethanol "is an issue that is probably more important to the Iowa economy than for Iowa voters," said veteran Democratic activist Phil Roeder. "I don't think it's an exclusive issue right now for any candidate for any office."

seniorjose · June 2006

2005

2.6L C240 luxury series

2003-2005

3.2L Mercedes-Benz C320 sport series

seniorjose · June 2006

E85 and the Environment

E85 has the highest oxygen content of any transportation fuel available today, making it burn cleaner than gasoline. Fewer exhaust emissions result in reduced production of smog and a decline in respiratory illness associated with poor air quality. E85 also reduces greenhouse gas emissions such as carbon dioxide, the main contributor to global warming, as much as 39 to 46 percent compared to gasoline.

Since E85's main ingredient is ethanol, which is non-toxic, water soluble and biodegradable, E85 is simply a better fuel for the world around us.

The Argonne National Laboratory has completed several significant studies.

seniorjose · June 2006

GENERAL MOTORS ANNOUNCES COLLABORATION WITH STATE OF INDIANA AND MEIJER GAS STATIONS TO HELP MORE INDIANA MOTORISTS POWER THEIR GM FLEXFUEL VEHICLES WITH E85 ETHANOL

INDIANAPOLIS  General Motors today announced that it has facilitated plans for the addition of several new E85 ethanol fueling sites throughout Indiana thanks to a collaborative partnership with Meijer and the state of Indiana. GM has been the catalyst behind several similar partnerships across the country as part of a broader, national GM campaign to boost the use and awareness of ethanol-based E85 fuel in the United States.

The announcement was made today during a ribbon cutting to celebrate the opening of an E85 ethanol pump at the Meijer Pike Plaza 129 store. Governor Mitch Daniels and Lt. Governor Becky Skillman were on hand for the event along with U.S. Secretary of Energy, Samuel Bodman.

Flexible fuel vehicles and E85 are proven options for substituting a clean burning renewable fuel for gasoline, and I believe it should be our common goal that E85 become a nationwide fueling option, Secretary Bodman said. I want to thank Governor Daniels, Lt. Governor Skillman, GM and Meijer for their commitment to this goal. Efforts like theseto educate the public and expand the network of stations that can deliver E85 fuelwill help us meet the Presidents goal to reduce our reliance on foreign sources of oil.
GM already has nearly two million vehicles on the road today that are capable of using E85 ethanol fuel. , said Elizabeth Lowery, GM vice president of environment and energy.

The effort is similar to announcements GM has already made with other state government, oil industry, ethanol producers, and retail partners in California, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, South Dakota and Texas. Since May of 2005, GM has announced partnerships with states and fuel providers around the country to locate, to date, up to 130 new E85 ethanol fueling locations by the end of 2006.

Corn is the leading source of income for Indiana farmers contributing $1.45 billion annually. Indiana produces 786.9 million bushels of corn a year, providing a basis for millions of gallons of ethanol to be produced in the future. There are currently nearly 70,000 GM flexible fuel vehicles in Indiana, with a total of 90,000 flexible vehicles in the state.

E85 flexible fuel vehicles can run on any combination of gasoline and/or E85 ethanol, a fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. E85 ethanol can contribute to energy independence because it diversifies the source of transportation fuels beyond petroleum, and it provides positive environmental benefits in the form of reduced greenhouse gas emissions.

Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow?

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