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I consulted some experts this morning and there was some discussion about this problem. The electronic governor was not adopted until the following year (1989), however a Dodge transmission tech. believes that lock-up was prevented by temperature on the four-speed RWD transmissions before the advent of the electronic governor.
Look for a sensor in one of the transmission lines (it should be the return line). This would be mounted directly to the steel tubing and use two wires. I'm not certain about this, but my memory is probably the weakest of the two consulting technicians. (It's definitely the oldest!!!) I don't recall a sensor like this used in a Dodge application.
If there is no temperature sensor in one of the transmission lines going to the radiator, collectively we are drawing a blank on this one. None of us can ever remember a condition like the one you are describing.
I think lock-up was controller directly by the PCM in those days, which means it operated the lock-up solenoid. There is a temperature circuit in the older PCMs used for some emission related operations. Maybe that is where the problem. From a pure hydraulic standpoint, I don't have much to offer as far as suggestions except what I've already mentioned.
Good luck,
Dusty
so i've replaced trans with a used one and all works great except really hard 2/3 shift feels like someone hit you from behind any ideas ?
thanks mike
Make sure the gearshift cable is adjusted poroperly.
There could be a problem with either the Input Speed or Output Speed Sensors. As far as that goes, the old Throttle Position Sensor may cause this as well.
Regards,
Dusty
I have a 99 Dakota with a 3.9L Auto, 143K miles with original engine and transmission. The truck has had regular maintenance its entire life, no major problems so far. I had the transmission rebuilt a year ago at 130K. The engine runs great, and transmission runs great...
... except lately I don't have much of an Overdrive. When I say this, the truck shifts fine (normal) between 1st and 3rd, but is VERY reluctant to shift into overdrive. The only way I can get it to shift into 4th is to maintain about 40-45MPH and hold the gas as lightly as possible. But even then, as soon as I push the pedal to accelerate, it instantly drops back into 3rd. I was somewhat nervous about pushing speeds more than 50MPH, but can try if needed.
It started doing this progressively more and more starting about 2 months ago, and has gotten to the point of which it won't hold in OD at all anymore. It doesn't seem to be temperature related, it does the same cold or hot. I didn't get any error code until 2 weeks ago. I took it to Autozone and he said it was (surprise) a shift error between 3rd and 4th.
What would be the first thing to do to try to fix this? I am comfortable pulling the pan if needed. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!
-Derrick
We did have upper 50's lower 60's here last Friday and the overdrive was working at least 50% of the time. I at least know the overdrive works but sure would like to know how to keep it working. I have a Clymer manual for the truck but it does not have specific wiring diagrams. It does show a temp sensor in the layout of the harness but no details about it. I called the local Dodge dealer and he stated the sensor in need is a discontinued part.
The local boneyard has nothing of that vintage either. I am hoping that somebody has a wiring diagram that shows the color of the wire/wires for the sensor. I also did the key on, key off code check and came up with a 15, speed sensor. That is an $80 part at the parts store that might not be the total fix of the problem. I sure would like to know more about the temp sensor if possible first. Thanks for the info.
The following items can cause or contribute to this problem:
*Engine not coming to operating temperature (bad thermostat)
*Throttle Valve cable misadjusted, sticking, or binding (A common problem on older, high mileage transmissions)
*Defective Throttle Position Sensor (common source for a whole bunch of problems)
*Defective Reear Wheel Speed Sensor
*Weak, defective, or intermittent Overdrive Solenoid
*Dirty or worn valve body. Sticking O/D Check Valve, clogged Overdrive Clutch Bleed Orifice.
*Low hydraulic pressure (leaky seals, defective Governor Pressure Sensor or Governor Pressure Solenoid)
*Worn Overdrive Clutches
Did your rebuilder gave you an itemized list of parts they replaced? Did he replace any clutches? Unfortunately, at 130K miles I probably would've replaced the valve body assembly unless everything looked very, very good. These are often found to have worn or scratched valve bores once they get over 100,000 miles.
Regards,
Dusty
Dusty
I believe that the engine temp is normal, the thermostat was replaced about the time the tranny was rebuilt. It warms up to about 190 and doesn't move from there, regardless of load.
Not sure about the throttle valve cable, TPS or solenoid, will try those next if needed.
I replaced the speed sensor (it was the one on the under side of the tranny, two wires, about $18) and disconnected the battery for about 5 min. I test drove it and took it up to 75mph, and everything seemed to be in good working order. The shift happened when it was supposed to, but had almost an intermitent stage. As soon as it shifted out of 3rd, it dropped slightly in RPM, but didn't seem like it was totally in OD (torque converter?). After I let off of the gas, it dropped in RPM again and was definately in 4th. I don't remember it doing this before this whole problem, but maybe it was supposed to?
By the way, I called the transmission tech. He pulled up my bill and said he remembered working on my truck (gave an accurate description, so I believed him). He said he did a standard rebuild, replaced the clutches, and disassembled the valve body. He didn't see any scratches/grooves in the walls and said he cleaned it all very well.
So the dirty valve body, sticking valve, and low pressure are unknown at this point.
Dusty, thank you very much for all of your help. I try my best to fix something myself and it can be VERY difficult to find someone to answer [what seem to be] simple questions. Your help is much appreciated.
Derrick
Just following up with the issues that I experienced with my transmission. After replacing the TPS and getting the trans fluid flushed, the erratic shifting issues are no longer an issue and the fuel economy has improved dramatically.
Thanks for the tip on replacing the TPS as it took car of not only the tranmission shifting issues, but corrected the erratic idle issues as well. It was $29.99 at Autozone with a 2 year warranty and takes on minutes to replace.
Regards,
Rich R.
Best regards,
Dusty
Best regards,
Dusty
I have a 2002 Dakota Quad 4x4 8cyl 5.9 w/ 86,000miles now 105,000
Recently when coming to a stop the transmission will either fail to shift from 2nd to 1st or will downshift to 1st but jump back up to 2nd after I come to a complete stop.
After sitting for a minute it will sometimes shift to 1st ok, other times it doesn't and I have to manually shift it to 1st.(no problems with manual shifting) sometimes it now does not shift until i start to move again, even with trying to force it to 1st
This is a rather intermittent problem, sometimes it will act up for the whole day, sometimes I can go for 5+ daysor months and not have any incident.
I took it to a local shop, they ran tests, and pulled the pan. Tests came up clean. They claim the pan had some metal flakes in it. I unfortunately was not there to verify it. They want to rebuild it for about $2000.
I am going to take to somewhere else for a 2nd opinion as I think having to rebuild a tranny at 86,000miles is absolutely nuts. However I wouldn't be totally surprised as there has not been much done in the way of maintenance. never did get the 2nd opinion
Could this just be a case of neglect on my part and I just need to pony up for the rebuild or is there hope for a less expense answer?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
-Glenn
Before making assumptions or declaring a rebuild on this transmission, there are a number of things that should be checked before ripping it out of the vehicle.
First, we need some vehicle history. What kind of transmission maintenance have you performed? Have you replaced any engine or transmission parts? What actions, if any, have you taken to troubleshoot the problem?
You say this is going in to Limp mode. How do you know?
Regards,
Dusty
Thank you for your reply.
Maintenance: Honestly, very little maintenance has been performed to the transmission itself aside from monitoring fluid levels. It has been serviced once(when I took it to the transmission shop to investigate the problem).
I have not replaced any transmission parts, there was as issue with acceleration/jerking that sounds alot like the TPS issue I've read so much about, the dealership fixed that quickly. As for the engine, within the first year there was some issue that caused the dealership to replace the heads and I recently replaced the water pump & belts. Other than that it's been pretty trouble free.
Troubleshooting: I have taken it to both a local transmission shop and the dealership, niether one was able to pinpoint the issue(nor were they able to get it to act up while it was in there possesion) Basically, they both said to drive it until it gets worse or just get the rebuild...
I say limp mode because that is what the dealership said I was describing(if i remember correctly)
The transmission shop said that it most likely was metal flakes floating around getting attracted to a magnatized silinoid(or something like that), causing the gears to get stuck. They said they could just replace the electronics, but weren't confident that would solve the issue...
Let me know if there is anything else I can answer, i really do appriciate you taking the time to help me troubleshoot this issue.
-Glenn
Thanks,
Dave
Is $600 for repair in the vehicle, the shop pulling the tranny for repairs, or for repairs on a tranny that you pulled yourself? Do you have any advice on finding a reputable transmission shop? I finally have an auto repair place I trust but have never had tranny work done there and I don't think I trust the national brands like AAMCO and the like. Have you pulled a tranny from a Dakota and if so how involved is it?
Thanks so mucn for your help!
You have a 46RE transmission.
The first thing I would check is the operation of the Throttle Valve Cable, the throttle linkage at the engine Throttlebody, and the pivot at the transmission. If this cable or the pivot is sticking it can cause this type of problem. There is an adjustment required at the Throttlebody end of the cable (where it attaches to the linkage) that is critical.
I've never opened up a transmission that didn't have some "metal flakes" in the fluid or in the pan. In my opinion, a few is normal. If you had the equivalent of a tablespoon, I'd be a little more worried. At this point I'd be more concerned about how much lost friction material was in the system. This is the stuff that will get past the filter and clog passages in the valve body or pile up in a servo piston bore.
Other possibilities:
*Transmission filter clogged or restricted fluid flow due to clogged cooling lines.
*Gearshift linkage or cable binding or misadjusted
*Defective Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
*Electronic Governor circuit problem. Check for signs of moisture or corrosion in the transmission electrical connectors.
*Defective Electronic Governor Solenoid or Sensor.
*Dirty Transmission Valve Body. A sticking/binding 1-2 shift Valve, Governor Plug, or Throttle Valve in the Valve Body.
*Front Band loose, worn, or misadjusted. Front Servo piston binding.
Best regards,
Dusty
In either case the transmission pan gasket is the same for all of these versions.
Regards,
Dusty
any thoughts on this?
The item you are describing is the Transmission Range Sensor (TRS). The TRS is actuated by the Manual Valve Lever inside the transmission and reacts to different positions of that lever depending on the position of the vehicle's gearshift.
On RE & RH series, the TRS only provides three functions, none of which involve the PCM:
*Supplies power to the Park/Neutral starting circuit
*Switches/supplies power to the reverse lamps
* Supplies electrical signals to illuminate the gear range indicator lamps on the instrument cluster
On RFE series only, the TRS also contains the transmission temperature sensor.
Of course there should be no ATF leaking from the TRS or around the gasket that's mounted on the TRS. Common problem on GMs, but don't see that very often on Mopars. You can have a leak at the bracket that the TRS mounts to, but you need a special adaptor tool to remove it.
Best regards,
Dusty
Thank you for all of the info! It looks like I have some work ahead of me.(and a bit of studying on how to check/fix all those things)
At the moment, the truck is performing like champ. I guess I'll wait until it acts up again and start at the top of the list.
Thanks again for all your help,
-Glenn
PO783 code comes up intermittently for some time now. I can erase it on the OBD II, it will go for a while but come back (not a surprise I suppose). I had the transmission in for a fluid change out a couple months back - it was inspected and got a general cleaning. Told the guys I had an occasional 783 fault, murphy's law - it wasn't there that day. Anyway, they noted it but couldn't see any issues at the time. The 3-4 solenoid is a possible problem. Has anyone run across anything like this and am I in the tracks for a big tranny job if I don't so something soon ? The vehicle has 92,000 miles, in great shape, drives well and I'd like to keep it.
Steve
*Overdrive switch circuit malfunction. Intermittent switch or bad connection in overdrive electrical circuit.
*Coolant temperature sensor defective.
*Throttle Position Sensor irratic/intermittent
*Rear Wheel Speed Sensor defective.
*Low hydraulic pressure: clogged filter or cooling lines. Intermittent governor operation.
*Overdrive Solenoid weak or intermittent connection/short in circuit.
*Sticking/binding 3-4 Shift Valve in valve body. Valve body dirty.
*Overdrive Piston sticking, leaky piston seal.
*Overdrive Clutch worn or is close to failure
*PCM problem or bad connections to PCM
Remove the electrical connectors to the transmission and check for signs of moisture, corrosion, or bent terminals. Check the electrical ground path from the transmission to the body. There should be less tha 0.5 ohms of DC resistance.
Regards,
Dusty
Thanks
Regards,
Dusty
Thanks
Regards,
Dusty
My first post here. So bear with me.
I just bought a used 1999 Dakota 4x4 5.2L 4speed OD tranny.
Everything works fine, but there is (I'll try to describe it as best I can). A slipping or surge feeling(engine revs pick up). I think it happpens with the 2-3 shift, but its about 2-3 seconds AFTER the 1-2 shift. It only happens after a dead stop, never after downshifting while driving around... Only after a complete stop and every time.. The truck has 147K miles, and is in generally very good shape, and well cared for. The trans fluid is full.
The truck had been sitting unused for about two months.. I have only driven it a little... The guy who sold it to me is a mechanic, and a pretty good one, but no auto trans expert... He thinks its because it was sitting for a couple of months, and wants me to just drive it a few days to see if it changes.. He then suggests he change the fluid, and filter... He is very accomodating at helping me fix this, but is short of ideas..
Can you suggest anything I can tell him to try? :confuse:
Thanks Much
Gene C
I think what I have been trying to describe in my earlier post was a "FLAIR"? in the 2-3 shift? Am I correct in that it is a Flair?
It seems that my mechanic friends recommendation of a fluid and filter change is a first right step.. (I will be sure to tell him to use ATF+3 not the Dexron-Mercon stuff that seems "evil".
Also he should check the TPS?
Also (as Dusty suggested in another post)
QUOTE: A number of things can cause a 2-3 flair on a 42RE,
burnt clutches,
sticky servo,
bands out-of-adjustment,
clogged valve body,
TPS (Throttle Positioning Sensor)
or sticking shift solenoids, just to name a few.
I do not know if my trans is the 42RE mine is a 99 4x4 5.2L?
Am I on the right track.?
Any other things to check?
Thanks
Gene
P0203 Injector Circuit Malfunction - Cylinder 3
Are you feeling an engine roughness or what feels like a cylinder dropping out? Fuel consumption higher? If so, could be the injector at cylinder three. If you're not noticing anything, check for a bad connections at the injector and the PCM (intermittent).
Regards,
Dusty
Dusty
If you feel comfortable tackling a rebuild yourself, I wouldn't talk you out of it. Since this is your vehicle the motivation is higher to do a quality job...usually. If you're the impatient type or not fussy, I'd advise against. If you lack the proper tools or knowlege, I'd advise against. If you are particular and like to perform extra clean reassembly, go for it.
Inspect components carefully and replace suspected parts, even those that don't come it the kit. Use a good quality kit. I have found the factory kits are better quality. I'd advise strongly to avoid the off-shore rebuilding kits.
Best regards,
Dusty
off-idle hesitation
hesitation at speed
rough engine idle
intermittent rough engine idle
rough idle then stalls
engine RPM fluctuates at idle
engine RPM flairs after start, then stalls
engine stalls when placed into any gear
engine stalls after start unless throttle pedal used
engine stalls when throttle opened
engine surges at speed
engine performance poor: engine misfires under load/acelleration
irratic shifts
irratic torque converter unlocking
irratic or over sensitive 6-5 downshifts at speed (68RFE)
irratic or over sensitive 5-4 downshifts at speed (545RFE)
irratic or over sensitive 4-3 downshifts at speed (RE, RLE)
3-4 driveline clunk
delayed 1-2 shift
delayed 3-4 upshift
3-4 upshifts occurs abruptly after 2-3 shift
no 3-4 upshift
no 4-3 downshift
no kickdown at speed
no or irratic torque converter lock up
no or irratic overdrive shift
Regards,
Dusty
Brian Hornback
You could be experiencing low hydraulic pressure, either due to clogged cooling lines or tank, or perhaps a defective govenor pressure regulator or clogged /dirty valve body.
If everything else is normal and the only problem is reverse, the problem could be the following:
*inoperative or worn front clutch
*Rear band misadjusted
*Worn or broken overdrive thrust bearing
*Broken direct clutch spring
Regards,
Dusty
Was the oil pressure alright before you changed the engine oil filter? Did this problem occur suddenly?
Judging from your symptom description, it sounds like the transmission is locked up and may be caused by the following:
*Incorrect transmission filter or installed incorrectly
*Clutches dragging or broken
*Stuck servo or valvebody problem
*Defective overrunning cluch
*Broken planetary gearset
*Locked torque converter clutch
Regards,
Dusty
Was the oil pressure alright before you changed the engine oil filter? Did this problem occur suddenly?
Judging from your symptom description, it sounds like the transmission is locked up and may be caused by the following:
*Incorrect transmission filter or installed incorrectly
*Clutches dragging or broken
*Stuck servo or valvebody problem
*Defective overrunning cluch
*Broken planetary gearset
*Locked torque converter clutch
Regards,
Dusty