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Addressing the Fit's shortcomings

124

Comments

  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Member Posts: 112
    Dead pedal:
    -Won't happen on this generation. It's part of the design of the car, and it is this way on all Fit/Jazzes worldwide. It seems to be the lack of space from the wheel well. From what I have seen on cars, pedals spaced close together are often caused by a short-nose design in which the wheel well intrudes into the passenger space.

    Seat height adjustment:
    -Standard in certain other markets, not sure why they don't have it in North America

    Center armrest:
    -Accessory in certain other markets, not sure why they don't have it in North America. However, unlike the seat-height adjustment issue, this one probably is not that difficult to resolve. Aftermarket ones are available, or if you try hard enough you can probably get one from Honda in a European country.


    Dead pedal- That is a shame. But how hard is it to add a four-inch wide plank of rubber-coated metal to the left side of the foot well? It can go above the weird little hump if need be. C'mon Honda, there's simply no good excuse for this.

    Height adjustment- Another very avoidable shame. C'mon Honda, so much is good with this car, why ruin some of the Fit-ty goodness with a silly oversight like this? :(

    Center armrest- Yeah, I'm hearing that you can import the Jazz center armrest. If true, I'll definitely be doing that if I get a Fit. Again though, have to wonder why Honda missed the ball on this one too.

    So annoying to have such a good car marred by some pretty easily avoidable mistakes. :sick:
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    And it looks odd too!
  • upland22upland22 Member Posts: 3
    I agree that a deadpedal would be nice, but I'd gladly trade the lack of a deadpedal for a little more room between the clutch and brake pedals! These pedals are too close together.
  • ottertracksottertracks Member Posts: 10
    Agreed!
    Ken
  • sfinstersfinster Member Posts: 17
    My shifter seems a little clickier, too. I'm at about 2000 miles. I figured I would mention it the first time I got the oil changed. However, my oil minder still says 80% so that could be a while! I'm just trying to pay attention to whether it's getting worse or not.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    I've noticed the same thing regarding the shifter, but I was assuming it was just the design. I've gotten used to the notchy feeling though, so its not really an issue for me.
    The one issue that I will bring up at oil change is a light clicking (more like a light clacking) sound I hear from the engine. It occurs only at a very specific time: when I am starting out in first gear and I let the clutch out while moderatly accelerating. Never hear it again after that...until I have to start off from a full stop.
    The car runs perfectly fine, but it's just the odd sound. Maybe I'm just paranoid? :blush:
    Anyone with the 5MT notice this too?
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    I have almost 1,000 miles. I have no problems with the MT shifter. It shifts like a manual. Smooth and easy. I hear nothing from the engine except the sewing machine sound of the 1500 CC engine!
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    Yeah, my engine is perfectly quiet and smooth (apart from that little noise I mentioned...which you really have to listen for). In fact, a few times I thought I stalled the car because it's so smooth at idle. :)
  • jrlncjrlnc Member Posts: 48
    I also have the Fit m/t (Sport). This morning I rolled down both windows and turned off the fan and radio. I really listened for it when I was starting out. I didn't hear a thing out of the ordinary. The shifter is actually seeming even smoother to me now that I've been driving it for a while. (This is my 4th m/t vehicle, but my last car was an automatic so I'm a bit out of practice.)

    Do you hear it when the windows are rolled up? Is it a high-frequency tapping sound? Repetitive or occasional only?
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    Hi jrlnc,

    Thanks for your response. The sound is easier to hear when the windows are up since much of the outside noise is filtered out. It is not a terribly loud noise and having the fan noise on 2 or higher, having the A/C on, or especially having the radio on will drown it out.

    The sound is occasional, but still it is the first time I have heard it in the cars I have driven, so I was somewhat concerned. Still, it's not that big of a deal that can't wait until oil change. Relatively high frequency...I am wondering if a slight valve adjustment is in order. However, if the dealership service department determines it will not affect reliability, engine longevity, and driveability, I won't worry about it. Performance is not affected.

    The sound only happens when starting from full stop when I am releasing the clutch into first gear. Even then it doesn't happen all the time. It seems like it occurs around 1500-2000 rpm. If I fully release the clutch before or above that engine speed it doesn't make the noise. The sound does not happen when I rev the engine while the car is in neutral or the clutch is fully depressed...or any other time for that matter. The conditions that I am describing seem very exact, but combining my habit of full clutch release at start-up around 1500 rpm on this car, combined with lots of stop/go driving in traffic, it does happen enough that I am interested to find the source of the sound.

    All this said, this is one of the smoothest engine and transmission I have ever owned (or driven for a long period of time). Granted I haven't driven many luxury cars ;) , but this car really is fun to drive!
  • chimaera2005chimaera2005 Member Posts: 5
    Since the Jazz in Europe starts at around $16,500 (without A/C, rear speakers, or side airbags, FYI), I'd say we're getting a pretty good deal and not missing much by the lack of height-adjustment, cargo cover, and a locking gas cap. Please remember that this is a US first and they have to see how well it will sell before they invest more time and money into adding tons more features (into an econobox, no less). The Civic DX ($14,760) has much less standard features than the Fit Base ($13,850). The Civic DX doesn't have A/C, power door locks, power mirrors, a radio (let alone a CD player), etc.

    P.S. I forgot to mention that it costs $690 just to get the Jazz in any color other than red.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    That 16K includes VAT and import fees. The actual pre-import cost for a base Fit? Canada has a roughly 7% import fee, so convert the cost to US$ and then figure out what the price would be at 7% less initial cost(slightly different calculation than subtracting 7%).

    It's about 12K.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    "Since the Jazz in Europe starts at around $16,500"

    No, the Jazz in Britain starts around $16,500. Britain doesn't represent all of Europe.

    Also, you are forgetting two things. First, as plekto mentioned VAT is included. Second, the US dollar has weakened considerably against European currencies, so while the price for the car in Europe hasn't changed, it has gone up considerably in the past month when comparing it to the dollar.

    Example, in Hungary the Jazz 1.2i S (exact same base model you are talking about) starts at 2,320,250 Ft or about US$11,400. That includes VAT, but not registration. However, even with the registration (also including VAT) it only goes up to US$13,000...and that's with the forint being fairly strong against the dollar right now. A month ago the price with registration would have been like US$12,200, throw on about US$300 for metallic paint.
    The base price of 2.3 million Ft hasn't changed, but compared to the dollar, it's about $800 more expensive now.
    US$16,500 in non-Eurozone Central Europe would get you the Jazz 1.4i ES which has everything (including automatic climate control, alloy wheels, etc.)

    Even in more expensive countries like Germany the car starts at US$14,000. Again in that case, the Euro is really strong. A few months ago it would have been in the US$12,500 range and all of the prices include taxes.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    ...and another thing.

    Yes, this is a US (and Canadian) first for the Fit and keeping the cost down would make sense since they didn't really know how people would react. However, the US-market Fit has larger bumpers, larger front quarter panels, stretched-out headlights, and the fuel filler door has been moved up :confuse: .
    Then there are some other firsts for the Fit on the US/Canadian models, including available cruise control, drive-by-wire throttle, an available 5-speed conventional automatic transmission, and side-curtain airbags. These were all specially developed for these two countries. If they could invest so much time and money on these things, adding existing features like seat height adjustment would have practically cost nothing in comparison.
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Member Posts: 112
    However, the US-market Fit has larger bumpers, larger front quarter panels, stretched-out headlights, and the fuel filler door has been moved up .

    Then there are some other firsts for the Fit on the US/Canadian models, including available cruise control, drive-by-wire throttle, an available 5-speed conventional automatic transmission, and side-curtain airbags. These were all specially developed for these two countries. If they could invest so much time and money on these things, adding existing features like seat height adjustment would have practically cost nothing in comparison.


    Does make you wonder, doesn't it? :confuse:
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    Okay, the Fit could have included a center arm rest, a dead pedal, etc. But I don't give a " one way or the other. I could have chosen to buy the Civic, or the Mazda 3S, or any other car. I Chose the Fit. No one made you buy the Fit, you chose it. Quit your complaining or trade in the Fit on something else!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, no one is making you read the posts in this discussion dedicated to the Fit's shortcomings, either. There are lots of discussions focused on the Fit and all its goodness.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    Who is complaining? I love the Fit and I am not doubting my purchase for one second. I also don't care about the lack of a dead pedal (I have never used them) and the seating position is fine for me without the height adjuster. I have been waiting for this car for years and that is the reason I pre-ordered back in January. This wasn't one of those spontaneous decisions for me.

    All I did is inform the previous poster that it wasn't to save costs that the car is lacking things that are available in other markets.

    A little bit of constructive criticism or speculating why a company does or doesn't do something doesn't imply you hate it or the product they produce. After all, this is the "Addressing the Fit's shortcomings" discussion.
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Member Posts: 112
    A little bit of constructive criticism or speculating why a company does or doesn't do something doesn't imply you hate it or the product they produce. After all, this is the "Addressing the Fit's shortcomings" discussion.

    Exactly. And when did we adopt this 'love it or leave it' attitude towards cars? They're just a tool we use, after all. Its not like we're hurting their feelings by pointing out any shortcomings. :D

    Also, with Edmunds being one of the premiere auto sites, I'd like to think that someone from Honda checks in here once in a blue moon, as just one more feedback resource to see what customers really do want out of their cars (I work for a different Japanese company, non-automotive, and yes, we do look at Internet forums sometimes for product feedback). If so, we'd be doing a disservice by NOT pointing out the flaws.

    I mean, how in the world do you think products get improved? By pretending they're perfect? :surprise:

  • sfinstersfinster Member Posts: 17
    When I first got the car, the shifter was very smooth. Now there are definite catches. Sometimes I'm not sure that it's in neutral, and there's a lot less play in it when it *is* in neutral.

    I also have to jiggle back and forth sometimes to find fourth gear.

    Definitely not as smooth as it was in the beginning, and I'm only up to 2300 miles.

    My sport has also developed a very annoying rattle in the right rear (I think). I need to have my husband drive while I pinpoint the source of the noise, or vice versa. For now I'm just turning up the radio. :)
  • dewaltdakotadewaltdakota Member Posts: 364
    Regarding the rattle in the rear... make sure nothing is rolling around in the spare tire well. Anything loose in that section will echo through the rest of the car, given there's just metal and paint around the spare, and nothing to muffle the noise.
  • carfanatic007carfanatic007 Member Posts: 267
    I thought I had a rattle today in the rear. It was a clothes hanger banging into the seat belt connector!
  • chimaera2005chimaera2005 Member Posts: 5
    Sorry about my math guys, but I honestly don't even know what VAT is. Not an expert on foreign money, obviously. Since my UK comparo doesn't pan out, the fact still remains that the Civic DX costs $900 more and is missing about $1500 in features compared to the base Fit (sans height adjustment, of course - but that's more important than A/C and music anyway :D). Perhaps instead of complaining about the Fit not having adjustable seat height, we should move to the Civic forum and talk about how 'overpriced' it is.
    :P

    P.S. Where can I learn about VAT and the current foreign exchange rates?
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    VAT is value added tax...of course it translates into all sorts of things in other languages (like ÁFA or "general sales tax" in Hungarian)
    Unlike the state tax in the US, which can even vary between counties, the VAT is a national tax set across the country. It is included in the price of a product, and not added on during the time it is sold to the consumer. So if I buy floormats for a Jazz in Austria and they cost 100 euros, that's all I pay. If I buy floormats for 100 dollars in San Diego county California though, I pay $107.75.

    Also, if you buy a product over a certain price (usually about US$100) in a country that uses VAT, but the final destination for that product is a country that uses a different currency, you can usually get the VAT returned. If I bought a Jazz in Hungary and exported out of the country, I could get my VAT refunded. At about 20% last time I checked, that's a pretty large sum. Of course then you have to deal with export costs, import costs, emissions regulations....it gets messy. :P

    Give the Fit a few months and the price will slowly settle down, once supply begins to catch up with demand.
  • crimsonacrimsona Member Posts: 153
    www.xe.com for foreign exchange rates, however, since I'm using firefox, I have the Google search bar by default on my upper right hand corner, so I just used that.

    just try it out: type "100 usd in cad" in google and you get exchange rates. Just know the 3 letter reference for each currency
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Canada has import fees as well on Japanese cars(company, doesn't matter where it's built, NAFTA nonwithstanding) as do many other countries. Thankfully, the amount in Canada is about 6-7%, IIRC - and is easy to find/verify.

    Unfortunately, there's no getting around it(added to base, pre VAT price) - so often people will buy a car in the U.S. and bring it into Canada to avoid this.
  • elladineelladine Member Posts: 9
    my dealer, where i'm ordering my fit from, says that the environmental protection option comes with the outside paint protection and undercarriage protection thing as well as some kind of fabric protection, all for like 900$. now i see here, after searching for this forever, that the paint one isn't needed. what about the other two? this will be my first time ever buying a new car so i'm real new to the whole thing.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Do you live near the ocean or where road salt is used? If so, you might want to check into professionally-applied rust protection (e.g. Ziebart), but in my experience it's better to just keep the car clean (including the undercarriage), wax it often, and touch up nicks right away.

    As for fabric protection, a can of Scotchgard costs a few bucks and takes a few minutes to apply.

    A synonym for "Environmental Protection Package" is ADM, as in "Additional Dealer Markup." ;)
  • elladineelladine Member Posts: 9
    yeah i live in utah, so lots of road salt a few months out of the year. i've only ever owned old cars, in the mid 1980's ones, so really this new car stuff is way new to me. how often is often to wax?

    so basically this option package they're trying to get me to buy is totally not worth it at all?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I wouldn't buy it. I live in heavily salted roads country (Minnesnowta) and have not had a vehicle rustproofed since '91. I haven't had body rust on any vehicle since then. Cars are treated at the factory with sealants now, much better than in the past. Actually, applying rustproofing can help cause rust by punching holes in the body and doors to apply the stuff.

    Wax at least 2-3 times a year or whenever water no longer beads up on the surface... or more frequently if you enjoy doing it, which you probably will since it is your first new car and it makes the car look good! :)
  • elladineelladine Member Posts: 9
    thank you so much for your help. guess i can get a hold of them tomorow and tell them i don't want that. even though my car is still 2-3 months from arriving. but i wanna get all that stuff dealt with before it arrives.

    oh yeah and how do you clean an undercarriage anyway? just spray it with water or something?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Drive-through car washes usually have an underbody spray. That is what I do in the winter since it's too cold to wash the car myself most of the time. A local gas station has an all-cloth self-service wash with an underbody spray for only $5 will gas purchase. Or you can do it yourself with a hose and nozzle--can be kind of messy though.
  • elladineelladine Member Posts: 9
    cool. well i thank you again so much for your help =)
  • neednewwheelsneednewwheels Member Posts: 1
    I'm only 5 feet tall so visibility is important. I test drove a Fit and was a bit concerned because of the rear seat head rests in the way. If you are short and have a Fit, do you get used to it or is it a hazard?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    We don't carry back seat passengers very often, so we've removed them. We keep one in the back seat, the other is in the house.
  • boatfloydboatfloyd Member Posts: 29
    The center headrest is down very low and I get plenty of visibly between the two outer headrests. boatfloyd :)
  • moonchildmoonchild Member Posts: 15
    I'm 5'1". I took the headrests off and perfect visability. When I did have them up I had to get used to the very limited view and relied on side mirrors more often. I prefer headrests off though but I don't have passengers usually.
  • fitman548fitman548 Member Posts: 172
    Yes, for any potential buyers, take note that the amount of road you see behind you in the rear view mirror is very narrow.

    It drives me nuts when I get in my wife's or mom's car, and the side mirrors are adjusted to see the side of the car. You're asking for trouble!

    When stopped at an intersection, make note of the cars around you in the Rear view mirror. Take the object that is to the most-left in the RV mirror, and adjust your driver's side view mirror so that same part of that same car is in the far right of your side mirror. Then put the the right-most of your RV mirror in the left-most of your passenger's SV mirror. This way you know that you are getting the mirrors as wide as possible while still overlapping with your RV mirror.

    In my Fit I did this, and now when a car approaches from the side, by the time that only the tail lights are in the SV mirror, I can see the nose of the car just out my driver's side window. ELIMINATING THE BLIND SPOT.
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    You pretty much nailed it. Blind spots can be eliminated. It's much more effective to use your SV mirrors than always turning your head to check for traffic if they're adjusted correctly. Head rests are irrelavent.
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I can understand short people's concerns with the back seat head rests (being 5'1" myself). It's not the over the shoulder view I worry about - it's the view out the rear view mirror that bothered me - I only see the part of the lane directly behind me, and very little of the lanes on either side, unless they are at least a quarter mile or more behind me. It's not the view of the car right beside me, it's the view (lack thereof) of what's coming behind that car that bothers me. And the fix is simple - remove the rear seat head restraints unless you have someone in the rear seat.
  • sgroffsgroff Member Posts: 3
    The rear wiper is on the right side of center when viewed from the rear. In operation, it does a marvelous job of cleaning the right 2/3s of the glass. That makes it really useful for those cars sold in Japan and the U.K. but it leaves the left 1/3 of the glass obscured for those of us in the U.S. It looks to me like the wiper on the USA cars was inherited from UK/Japanese markets. I called Honda American customer service line about this but no reply yet.
  • sfinstersfinster Member Posts: 17
    The rear wiper is right of center on our CR-V, and on our Toyota Sienna. I don't think it's that unusual.
  • hungarian83hungarian83 Member Posts: 678
    All Fit/Jazzes have it this way. I think it is a cost saving measure. Since the wiper base (the hole in the hatch) is not centered, they would have to store two sets of hatches.

    By making just one hatch they reduce inventory...and aggravate one of the two sets of consumers ;)
  • rodstickmanrodstickman Member Posts: 6
    Today I am going to the Suzuki dealer and buying the dead petal for the Aero. Maybe that will fit in my fit.

    I am 6'1" and really think I need this, my foot goes goofy when resting it on the wheel well and if I bend my knees up I have problems with the steering wheel.

    If it works, I will put together an installation package (who knows, maybe I'll start up the deadpetalforfit.com website)
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Member Posts: 112
    LOL. It would be slightly embarrassing for Honda if something like that really took off. :D

    Still, you're definitely serving a need, so more power to you. Hope it works out.
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Member Posts: 112
    Having done additional research on the Fit (and having been in several now), and with a couple of months to think about it, I'm going to update my 'Fit shortcomings' list:

    1) Ergonomics, ergonomics, ergonomics. The Fit really does need:

    - a dead pedal
    - a seat height adjuster (manual is fine)
    - a center armrest/console (and w/sufficient storage to hold sunglasses, cell phone, etc.)

    2) Additionally on the ergonomics front, a telescoping steering column would be EXTREMELY good to have, as the 'Honda standard driving position' (which I know well from my CR-V) often has the steering wheel positioned too far away from the driver.

    3) Still more ergonomics: The Base model really should have cruise standard. Its cheap, its a ticket saver, and its an ankle/foot saver as well on long trips. COMFORT is important, Honda.

    4) The very limited availability of the light-colored interior on the Fit Sport needs to be fixed... many folks living in hot/sunny climes actually prefer a light-colored interior (and no, tint does not solve all issues with summer heat + a dark interior for many of us).

    Currently, the Sport only offers the light interior with a white exterior- ugh. Availability should be expanded to the black and red exteriors, with which it would go well (not to suggest that the availability of the dark interior with those exterior colors should go away- just that a choice of interiors should be available).

    5) Interior carpeting is very thin, 'felt-like', and cheap-feeling. Doesn't need to be plush, but some kind of upgrade here would be welcome.

    6) The hideous wheel covers on the Base continue to be an embarrassment. No one expects too much here, but something non-retina-scarring would be welcome, at least. The covers on the Japanese base Fit, for instance, are at least adequate... why not use those instead?

    7) Anything that can be done to get even a few more degrees of recline in the rear seatbacks is welcome, for a more refreshing 'refresh mode'.

    For example, the 'removable side bolsters' trick of the Mazda 2 could be useful here, as it'd allow you to lay the Fit's rear seatback flat or nearly flat, I'd think. Now THAT's refreshing. :)

    8) Improve rearward visibility. Larger rear windows, even bigger side mirrors, smaller form factor for the rear headrests?

    9) Offer an 'EX' model with a moonroof, rear disc brakes, and 15-20 more HP. I think Honda would be suprised at how well it would sell.

    Criticisms I've dropped from the list:

    - Limited range/small gas tank: Yes, the tank is small, but the mileage has been proven to be good enough so that it really isn't that big a deal.

    - No 'LE' model for grown-ups: While I still think it would a good idea, an 'EX' model could do the same job (in 'dressy Base' trim), and even if the EX never happens, the 'boy racer' looks of the Sport do tend to grow on you.

    - 14" alloys offered as an option on the Base: Not really all that useful, as the cost would wipe out about half of the cost delta between the Base and the Sport, so... why not just get a Sport instead? Also you can get these aftermarket in any case.

    Hope that covered everything. :wink:
  • mwqamwqa Member Posts: 106
    I agree with you on most items - especially 1, 3 and 5. :)

    For number 8, I would find a way to reduce the height of the head rests instead of increasing the size of the windows, which I think is unlikely. I've seen at least one Fit on the road with it's rear head rests dumped in the cargo hold. Not the preferred solution! :(
  • johnnyvjjohnnyvj Member Posts: 112
    Good idea. I'll include that, since you're right, smaller headrests are more likely to happen than a rear window redesign. :)
  • kctay396kctay396 Member Posts: 2
    I am strongly considering the Fit, but I counted on getting traction control on the next car I purchased. I'm so disappointed it doesn't have that option. Also, I notice that a lot of cars have the cupholders in front of the gear shift. I want my cupholder Beside me, not where I have to move up in any way while driving to get my coffee.

    I think the Chevy Malibu is one of the most practical and easy to live in cars out there. I love the mileage count on the Fit but the interior of the Malibu. Not sure what I'm going to do.
  • dap2006dap2006 Member Posts: 68
    If reliability, build quality, and resale value are important to you I suggest you get used to the cupholder location - few people are interested in a used Malibu today and I doubt that will change anytime soon. Cars in this pricerange can't be all things to all people - you'll have to decide what's really important to you...
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