2007 Hyundai Accent v 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift

backy · October 2006

Please go back and read what I said a couple of posts ago. You either didn't read it the first time, or conveniently ignored it. I agreed that the depreciation savings on the Accent could be made up by the gas savings on the Yaris. But there's also finance savings and repair savings. So using the example you reposted:

Accent: $13,040 price + 6.5% tax + $300 license/fees (plug in your own numbers) = $14,177. Put 10% down, finance $12,759 at 7% (pretty good rate these days) for 60 months, total interest is $2400.

Yaris: $14,950 price + 6.5% tax + $300 license/fees = $16,222. Put 10% down, finance $14,600 at 7% for 60 months, total interest is $2746. Difference is $346 (assuming very few car loans are paid off early, as you noted).

Plus add the costs of any repairs on the Yaris in years 4 and 5 that are not covered by Toyota's bumper-to-bumper warranty (but would be covered under Hyundai's 5-year b-to-b warranty). Plus you save about $60/year on roadside assistance (e.g. AAA) fees, which are paid for by Hyundai (very nice little perk, if you have a spouse who likes to lock the keys in the car, or gets a flat tire etc.).

The savings with the Accent just keep adding up! The main risk with the Accent might be the trouble you will have figuring out what to do with all that extra money.

I've already explained how much I drive in a year. Do you want it down to the 1/10th of a mile? You haven't been too precise in other matters (like on how many cars Toyota makes compared to Hyundai)--why are you so picky on that one? Is it because I used some facts to point out that the average driver drives not 15k a year, as you claimed, but 12k?

As for risk, there is also the risk associated with driving around in a small car without safety features such as side airbags and ABS. There is the greater risk of driving a car with lesser crash protection than another car. I find those risks harder to accept than any risk there may be in differences in reliability.

backy · October 2006

Didn't you already post your opinion that reliability studies covering 90 days are not worth much, because few if any problems happen in the first 90 days--or even in the first 3 years? I thought I read that...

But if you think these short-term reliability studies ARE valid, OK by me. The fact that Hyundai topped Toyota in the latest IQS is significant then, isn't it?

tjw1308 · October 2006

Ok, since you won't let it die, over what TIMEFRAME did I say Toyota had outsold Hyundai 20:1? Cause I'll let you in on a little secret... they have :P ...

IF you add in the extra miles in gas, the Yaris gobbles up all of your "extra" savings too... guess you just forgot that we figured 10k per (since we were using a cash buyer driving that little).

And as for wanting it to the 1/10th of a mile, as a matter of fact, YES, I DO. Especially when you want to break your "savings" down to a possible savings of $60 in roadside assistance... sheesh, who's nickel and diming now? Seems a 10% gas mileage difference is equally significant, but whatever...

I actually HAVE documentation from ALG (trying to find a link, but I don't think they publish it online) that states the average mileage for a non-luxury car for 2004 (not 2001), was almost 14700... A little closer to 15k than 12k, but again, whatever...

And in the Yaris you cite in your example (remember, you loaded it up to get your "savings"), you DO get ABS and Side Airbags, so not sure where you're trying to go with your "risk" argument.

T

tjw1308 · October 2006

My question wasn't if I thought they were valid, it was if you do?

I'll let you in on a another secret here too... it's a set-up

. I think you realize how Hyundai does in comparison in almost every other test conducted by JD Power over the last 10 years (even the recent ones).

My hunch is, you'll only grant validity to the one Hyundai eeks out, and claim everything else is irrelevant or too old (too old being three years...).

T

joe97 · October 2006

Clue me in as to which time period you had 20:1...

Doesn't matter, we are talking about Accent vs. Yaris, not Hyundai vs. Toyota...you are being way off-topic here. Plus, both are new cars (especially Hyundai's) so reliablity is a moot point to be even discussing...give it a few years and then we'll chat

And your second "secret", I am puzzled too, again off-topic, but even so, the fact remains Hyundai has made the biggest jump in the auto industry, as far as quality and reliabilty are concerned...compare Toyota when they are relatively new to the US markets vs. Hyundai present time, that should be somewhat fair...

backy · October 2006

The time frame you cited was NOW, as in present tense, as in "Toyota outsells [emphasis mine] Hyundai by a more than 20 to 1 margin worldwide."

The calculations I provided on gas savings (and finance savings and repair savings) were based on an "average" driver who drives 12k a year (please share that ALG link with us when you find it, try Google), finances the car, and owns it for at least five years. I don't consider savings of $300 ($60 a year for five years) nickel-and-diming. If you do, then wouldn't the $500 in gas savings over five years for the Yaris be nickel-and-diming also? $300 a pop adds up to big money: about $350 in finance savings, $300 in roadside assistance savings, some $$$ in repair savings, plus the savings in depreciation of about $500. Subtract the $500 in gas savings on the Yaris, and you are way ahead with the Accent. Plus outside of the financial advantages, you get a car with more room, a more comfortable driving position, more power, better crash-test scores, more standard safety features, more standard convenience features, and a longer warranty. I think that spells "Value".

The Yaris and Accent I used in my example earlier (which you cited also btw) were well-equipped, with power package, alloys, ABS, and side airbags. I equipped the two cars as closely as possible, at least in pixels. Real-world availability is another matter. The Accent SE comes standard with all that equipment, so I know I can buy one with ABS and side bags. I don't know that for the Yaris. I did ask you awhile back how many Yaris hatches with stick, ABS, and side bags you have seen at your dealership. You chose not to answer the question.

joe97 · October 2006

Regarding the 20:1, I pulled up some figures:

Toyota sold 8.12 million vehicles in 2005 worldwide, while Hyundai sold 3.72 million vehicles. Even if you take the Kia portion out, that is still nowhere near 20:1...
World 2005 - (a little over 2:1 but probably close to 3:1 excluding Kia figures)

In the US:

Toyota in 2005: 2.26 million vehicles
Hyundai in 2005: 0.42 million vehicles
US 2005 (a little over 5:1)

2006 YTD (thru. Sept):
Toyota: 1.93 million
Hyundai: 0.36 million
US 2006 YTD (the same as above - a little over 5:1)

20:1 would not make Hyundai the 6th largest automaker in the world

tjw1308 · October 2006

Just to put it to rest, since 1980, what's that margin? See, never said where to start now did I :P ? Also never said for what duration... Did/do they outsell them 20:1 in a given hour? Yup. Backy is quoting something that he misinterpreted... but he does that a lot, so no worries!

And if real world availability of the Yaris is the best you can do... you're really grasping at straws now lol.

Seems I remember how you spelled value backy... wasn't it F-I-T (despite being more expensive, less equipped, and shorter warrantied)?

A customer of mine today gave an interesting analogy (I'm paraphrasing here):

"Hyundai is in a way like the lifetime D student that somehow managed to pull out a few B's and A's for a couple semester's. Sure, it MAY be a sign of a legitimate turn-around, but you can't just IGNORE his history. If Hyundai can keep it up for more than a few years, they'll have more believers. Until then, they still are what they were."

If you want to take the chance that despite their history they have legitimately turned it around, then fine, it's a free country.

Until they PROVE otherwise (through more than just a handful of short-term awards), your money is better spent on something that has better predicted reliability, better gas mileage, better resale, and a PROVEN history.

And to top it off, my one and only true shot, it's NOT a Hyundai... In today's world, as much as you are blinded to the fact, that counts. It may not be fair, or right, or whatever, but it's what you get when a lot of people still view the company as the "crooked H".

T

tjw1308 · October 2006

"give it a few years and then we'll chat

"

Fine! I have no issue what so ever in waiting to see if it turns out like you guys think it will.

But that's the whole point. You believe Hyundai has turned the corner. I'm not sold, and neither is a LOT of the public... And despite making MAJOR strides, they still don't rate well long term against Toyota.

IF and when they do, the "value" argument may be valid. But until then, even looking back 3 years paints very different pictures of the two brands.

In three years, I may have to eat crow, I may not. There is currently less risk involved going with a proven winner though. Hyundai isn't, and Toyota is.

So if they are within a few hundred bucks of one another and you WEREN'T a Hyundai/Toyota owner to start with, what would the intelligent decision be? Going with an unknown that just started building "quality" in the last three years? Really?

Let's just wait and see...

Until then though, the Yaris is the better choice.

T

backy · October 2006

I see that since you can't make a case for the Yaris, other than it has a very good chance to be reliable and it has excellent fuel economy, you turn back to your same-old attacks on Hyundai in general. How about backing up your arguments with some facts, as I and others have done?

Your attempts to extricate yourself from your errors of fact used to be amusing; now they are getting old.

Also I'd really appreciate it if you'd make an attempt to read my posts. I explained before why I prefer the Accent over the Fit. I'm not going to cover that ground again here, since it's off-topic.

BTW, your customer's analogy is amusing too. Most college students graduate in 4-5 years. Hyundai has had a solid record of reliability for at least that long. For instance, go look at how many below-average reliability scores the Accent has had in the past five years in CR's rankings. Zero. The record over that time since 2001 is two average, one above average, one much better than average (and not enough data for 2005). Hyundai overall, across its entire lineup, has had TWO below-average scores in the past five years. And one of those, for 2001 on the XG300, is on a car that isn't made anymore. And that is a "D average"? Not nearly. More like a solid B at worst.

How many more years does Hyundai have to have solid reliability scores before some people accept it's not the Hyundai of old? For Toyota bigots (including Toyota salespeople), it will always be "a few more years", won't it? Otherwise there won't be a reason for buyers to spend a lot more on cars like the Yaris than for cars like the Accent.

I do agree with you on at least one thing: the shot you and others like to repeat, "it's NOT a Hyundai," is not fair, or correct. But then, there are still people who won't buy a Japanese car because they remember the low-quality tin boxes from Japan from the '60s and early '70s, or maybe just because they remember Pearl Harbor. Not valid reasons in my opinion, but that's what you get when people have long memories. Their loss, their missed opportunity.

tjw1308 · October 2006

Alright backy, since you won't let the past die, let's take a trip down memory lane for those who missed it:

1) When it came to value you considered the more expensive, less equipped, and less warrantied Honda Fit your "top choice".

You never did DEFINE value now did you? I guess for you it all comes down to the comfiest seat (your "blocker" as you stated, for the Fit).

Amusing...

2) When faced with the choice between your trusty family Hyundai or family Mazda, your own son CHOSE to go with the Mazda. No big surprise I must admit... I guess he's just a "bigot" against Hyundai too.

Throwing around words like "bigot" is not only offensive but entirely untrue. Frankly I couldn't care less what you "think" you know about me, because it's coming from someone who accuses others of being biased and "bigotted" when HE/SHE himself/herself won't even admit what they do (except to claim it has nothing to do with the car industry... uh-huh, sure

).

3) You refuse to indicate which sources you find credible. Do you find JD Power a reputable source? How about Consumer Reports? Or ALG?

Between that, and your total lack of definition of "value", no proof WOULD be enough for you, so what's the point?

T

tjw1308 · October 2006

You say we always want "a few more years" of reliability out of Hyundai...

THAT is amusing, because when we try and go back a few years and LOOK, the excuse Hyundai owners give is irrelevance, and that they've improved since then.

So what is it? Is a few years (five or less) too far back to judge reliability? Seems like it is to you, since even a three year old study between the two brands shows a decisive gap.

The reasons I find the Yaris to be a better value than the Accent are actually 4-fold:

The Yaris has better predicted reliability, even based on recent history.

ALG predicts it will hold a nearly double digit advantage in residual (resale).

The Yaris gets better gas-mileage (significant because this is an ECONOMY class of vehicles).

And finallly, the Yaris is not a Hyundai. "Bigotted" as you may think that is, it's the same everywhere in the "real" world. It's why people buy Rolex's and Maytag's, and if you just want to completely ignore the fact that Hyundai was very recently (less than 10 years ago) the laughing stock of the industry, it's certainly your perogative.

But you aren't living in reality if you don't think Toyota on name alone would win a comparo between non-owners of either product...

That's why you need to give it a few years. Unless you want to start granting validity to the studies done 3-5 years ago (from the present)... but you already know how that would work out don't you?

BTW, what's better? An A student or a B one???

T

joe97 · October 2006

Funny you should mention Consumer Reports - CR ranked the Sonata as the most reliable car in 2005; NHTSA gave perfect scores on crash ratings (06+) - does that mean Hyundai is automatically more reliable and safer than everyone else? Of course not, but it does make the Sonata a safe and a reliable model - just an example. Remember, nothing is perfect, not even Toyota (cough cough transmission

)

joe97 · October 2006

Please pull up those figures where Toyota outsold Hyundai 20:1.

joe97 · October 2006

I am all for B students, as I know experiences have taught me you don't have to be the best student to become sucessful. Generally, A students are always in the spotlight, while B students quitely make their own strive to sucess, whatever they may be. Oh by the way, I had always been a B student, and I would consider myself pretty sucessful to this point in life.

No one has said Toyota aren't good products, but so are Hyundais, a lot more than you give them credit for.

tjw1308 · October 2006

And what credit "haven't" I given them exactly?

I will surely stop short of saying they have drawn equal to Toyota. Other than that, I have stated on numerous occasions that there are worse choices, and that, in fact, the Accent is a very nice car.

The current Accent is not however, a better value (for most) than the Yaris for the reasons I listed before. Value is different for everyone. At least I can define it, and don't adapt it to the argument I'm having like others do.

If you want to play the award game, by all means, LET'S! Tell me what source you find reputable, and I'll pull pro-Toyota findings at a significantly higher rate than I will Hyundai. You know it, I know it, backy knows it

.

No car manufacturer is perfect. Never said Toyota was. Historically, statistically, perception-wise, whatever... it's indicative that Toyota is FAR closer than Hyundai over the last 5 years though (let's use CR's red/black circles as indicators...).

In 3 years, show me data that they've been comparable. If we look back 3 years even from today though (your own data I believe), they haven't been.

My bias extends so far as to say I would have bought a FIT were there availability and not ridiculous markups above MSRP. Sacrilege!? My third choice would probably be the Versa or Accent... so biased... lol

T

Karen_S · October 2006

...so that means all the sniping and personal jabs should be waning also. Please remember that this discussion is a comparison between Accent and Yaris and not about whatever personal issues you may have with another member.

forrestshalom · October 2006

i have a :lemon: lways like fuel efficient small cars. my first car was a 1966 saab 3 cylinder! i owned a mazda 323 that gave me 100k trouble free miles, until the clutch went out and i sold it: (should have kept it: i got 35 miles per gallon, no air, 83 hp engine but quiet at highway speed.)

so now i am in the market for a fuel efficient, reliable, utilitarian, fun car to drive for my teenage daughters. i have test driven so far the fit, aveo, versa, rio and accent. this weekend i hope to drive a yaris. i am glad i have been reading this forum, because i think a major strike against buying a car with a small engine with a/c is that realistically it would be hard to get 30 mpg and probably more likely 25 mpg when running the air. i had a 1989 nissan sentra(1.6 liter) that got near 35 mpg but when i added air(for the wife) it was getting maybe 25 mpg! i currently drive a 1999 nissan altima and using the air gets me about the same: this is with a 2.4 liter engine.

i am amazed that toyota would package the base yaris with air! and i believe that because of the electric steering, the real world gas mileage with a/c on would be at least 35 mpg. i don't think that any other subcompact (that i have driven so far) could achieve this. the engines are too small for the drag of power steering and a/c to have great economy.

forrestshalom · October 2006

except the fit: but is it worth 15k plus compared to the yaris at 11k?

i doubt it. i would also like to get some opinions on the electric throttle response on the yaris, thanks.

backy · October 2006

The base Fit at under $15k has a lot more equipment on it than a Yaris hatchback at $11k, e.g. ABS, 6 airbags, power windows/locks/mirrors, 60/40 split folding "magic" rear seat, tachometer, nicer interior, and a nice audio system.

forrestshalom · October 2006

that stuff is nice but not for about 1/2 the price of a yaris.
i am interested in strictly the base liftback with maual. i could go for the abs for $300 and 600 for the side/curtain airbags though. if i want a radio i'll put one in for cheap.

forrestshalom · October 2006

plus i dont' want to spend 15k or more for a car! what? are they made out of gold these days?

backy · October 2006

On the "build your own" Yaris site at toyota.com, the lowest priced Yaris hatchback configuration with ABS and side bags was $13,360. That does include a convenience package with stereo, 15" wheels, rear wiper/defroster, and fog lamps. For about $1200 more, the Fit would have in addition the power package, 60/40 split seats (these actually come in real handy I've found), tachometer, and--two extra doors. Maybe you will have better luck finding a bare-bones Yaris with just ABS and side bags in your region. Good luck!

forrestshalom · October 2006

"convenience" for me is saving bucks. cars are so ridiculously priced nowadays. at least the japanese cars last. i have 105k on my 99 altima 5 spd. changed the clutch once and cost me $310. doesn't burn or leak oil. will run another 100k easily i think. the problem today is people are car crazy and the dealers can sense the "blood" when a person walks on their lots. the salesmen swarm like sharks. and people think they got a good deal because they take off $100 and throw in floor mats. the car dealers are GREEDY, and i won't play the game to their advantage. when i get ready to buy i will try the internet route first.

forrestshalom · October 2006

i read on yahoo cars that the base yaris 5spd hatch is $10345 at "invoice". so that would be the point that i would try and work from. the a/c with electric steering are fantastic inclusions on an entry level economy car.

so what is "invoice" any way? is this the price the dealers claim they pay toyota for it?

backy · October 2006

Good luck getting a Yaris at invoice.

BTW, given the topic of this discussion... have you looked at the Accent hatch? Better chances of getting a discount on that one, and a nice little car--side bags/curtains are standard.

lucynethel · October 2006

Even with all those side airbags, the Accent FAILS HORRIBLY in side impact crash test! Be careful.......Also, save over $600.00 for that 60K service..... :lemon:

backy · October 2006

How do you figure the Accent "fails horribly" in side impact crash tests? Neither the Accent nor Yaris hatchbacks, the subjects of this discussion, have been crash-tested yet (the reports aren't out yet anyway). For the sedans, the Accent did better than the Yaris: 4/3 for the Accent and 3/3 for the Yaris. Certainly a "3" score is not very good, but it's the same score that cars like the Honda Fit and Mazda3 got on the rear side impact (the Fit got 5 stars on the frontal side impact, the Mazda3 got only 3 stars there). In fact, in the Accent's size class (which is one-up from the Yaris'), only the Honda Civic and Fit got better NHTSA crash test results than the Accent.

forrestshalom · October 2006

i drove an accent hatch last week (5spd). i liked it but no standard air or elec steering. so pricing would probably be close to the yaris base (with air). i want a car that gives great gas mileage and the comfort of air in the summer. i think the 1.6 liter accent engine will be hard to get 30 mpg with a/c on and hydraulic power steering drag. many people have already testified that they are getting 35 mpg plus on the yaris! i will try and test one out tomorrow and comment more then. i did see one drive by me today and i was impressed! it looked cool and bigger in person than in pictures. i wonder if yaris has timing belt? or chain timing chain like nissan?

forrestshalom · October 2006

so what does the $600 charge at 60k service on the accent do? change air filter, plugs, oil, and timing belt? i wouldn't have my car service by a fleecer(dealer) anyway.

backy · October 2006

I guess you'll have to ask the person who posted that.

fastrunner · October 2006

"i am amazed that toyota would package the base yaris with air! and i believe that because of the electric steering, the real world gas mileage with a/c on would be at least 35 mpg. i don't think that any other subcompact (that i have driven so far) could achieve this. the engines are too small for the drag of power steering and a/c to have great economy."
I have now owned a 5 speed liftback Yaris for 4 weeks, and my mileage is 40mpg, for the first 800 miles, with no highway, but lots of coasting. This car is wonderful IMO.
I highly recommend the liftback with a manual transmission, so you can do coasting on downhills, which will improve your mileage. I live in Pennsylvania, so I cannot comment on mileage with the A/C, for I purchased it in late Sept.
Also, I got 3.5% off of MSRP, for my dealer in Hatfield, PA.

backy · October 2006

You can coast downhill with an automatic tranny car too. Just lift your foot off the accelerator.

lucynethel · October 2006

ALL you need is at Edmunds.com. All the FAILURES of safety on the Accent is both at the Government AND Insurance Institute sites. it's YOUR life (money,family etc.). Whatever turns you on.....I'll stick with the Yaris "so FAR".

forrestshalom · October 2006

40 mpg in the city? tremendous! in driving manuals i always coast while coming to a stop. you give me reason to believe that the yaris is capable of at least 45 mpg on highway at 70 mph, maybe fifty! i read that the real world mpg of a prius is
45 mpg. also imagine what you could get if you turned of the ignition while stopped at long lights? hello 45 mpg in the city?

backy · October 2006

You're not making sense. There is NO information about the current Accent on the IIHS site. There is NO information about the 2007 Accent hatchback, which we are discussing here, on the NHTSA or IIHS sites. And you will stick with the 2007 Yaris because... it has the worst NHTSA crash test ratings in its class? :confuse: As you said... it's YOUR life.

forrestshalom · October 2006

pros:

it looks cool and more updated that accent.
more headroom in backseat.
shifter better.
air blowed harder from vents.
has a timing chain rather than belt
air standard
electric steering
drive by wire throttle
back seat folded flat
higher gas mileage
easily accesible oil filter under front of engine.
all aluminum engine

cons:

not as peppy an engine as accent
i would prefer the instrument panel in front of me rather than constantly having to look a little to the side to see my speed.
no tachometer
accent: better interior look and feel.
no armrest

i am tempted to buy the accent but with air standard on the base yaris plus electric steering and throttle i will have to go with the yaris when it comes time to buy!

cheers mates

forrestshalom · October 2006

price on the window for a 5spd liftback was: $12320.00 with the convenience package plus destination fee of about $600.00
a newspaper ad car at another toyota dealer in my area was $12860.00: it was probably another convenience package or maybe one with automatic.

it might also be of interest that at the hyundai dealership today i was offered free oil changes for life and $500.00 in gas to buy a 5spd accent gs at about $12500.00 plus destination and fees. still not enough to convince me to buy an accent over a yaris

backy · October 2006

FYI, the 60/40 back seat of the Accent does fold flat. To do that, you lift up on the front edge of the seat bottom to pull it up and forward, then lay the seat back down flat. You can do one or both sides. If you don't lift the seat bottom, the seat back is angled some when folded.

forrestshalom · October 2006

thanks.

so what kind of gas mileage are you getting from your accent?
can you elaborate a little please

backy · October 2006

I don't own an Accent. It's one of the cars I'm considering for my next new car. You might want to ask that question on the Accent Real-World MPG discussion:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f0e75b7/7

tjw1308 · October 2006

Believe it or not, when you comapre power to weight, the difference in power is almost non-existent between the two vehicles.

One thing I will say however, is that the Yaris is harder to maximize power output at first because of the lack of tach. You'll get use to it very quickly though, and once you do, the car gets noticeably quicker too.

As an actual owner of a Yaris, I can tell you I get a combined 38 MPG (44 on my last trip to Vegas hehe).

And don't let the lack of armrest worry you, you can get a factory one off of eBay for $50 or so (you won't even lose the cupholder... if you really plan on using all 7 of them at once haha).

4000 miles and I still love the car. Can't go wrong.

T

forrestshalom · October 2006

yeah i noticed the yaris having slightly less power than the accent in my test drive, but i was afraid to push it w/o knowing what revs it was at w/0 a tachometer.

do you know if the yaris has a rev limiter for the 5spd?

nippononly · October 2006

Yes, there is a rev limiter, just as there was for the Echo using the same engine before it. So don't worry about revving it as much as you like, even without having the tach! :-)

forrestshalom · October 2006

thank you sir. thats a relief. now, i am saving my nickels and dimes for a down payment! can you imagine the horror of 10-12 mpg suv owners when gas hits 4-5 dollars a gallon?

at least we conservative gas consumers will still be able to get around w/0 as much pain as the gas guzzling crowd.

the realistic great mpg of a yaris, its my most important reason for wanting to buy one. yes the yaris is cheap in many ways but compared to what? the accent looks nice but not at 27 mpg real world...

backy · October 2006

Shoot, I get about 27 mpg overall real-world in my 2.0L, 138 hp Elantra. With an automatic! If someone can't do better than 27 mpg in a 1.6L, 110 hp car they aren't trying.

forrestshalom · October 2006

is that with the a/c on? how about off?

forrestshalom · October 2006

interesting that the engine on the echo is the same as yaris.

does echo have timing chain?
what gas mileage did you get with an echo with air...w/o air?
thanks. and with w/o power steering.

the honda hx manual was rated at 36 mph city 44 mph highway!
can anyone believe this in the real world? it must be w/o air and/or power steering to achieve this. (and i know it has the e-vtec)

backy · October 2006

Yes.

nippononly · October 2006

Yes, Echo has a timing chain, and mine also has power steering (few were built that did not), something which is no longer optional in the Yaris.

My Echo has air, and if you look on the Sedans board in the Echo folder, you will find me hammering away over the course of the last year with my very happy 41 mpg track record. That's in normal suburbn driving - it can easily do 46-50 mpg on the highway, with aircon, provided you keep the speed down to the limit or thereabouts.

The new Yaris is about 200 pounds heavier than my Echo, and has about 5 hp more, so gas mileage may fall slightly from what the Echo could routinely obtain, but I wouldn't think it would fall more than about 5%. They are rated almost identical by the EPA - mine was 34/41, and the current model is 34/40 (both with stick shifts).

I had a friend with the Civic HX, and believe everything you read in that case. He had a long highway commute, about 150 miles round trip each day, half at 70 mph and half in traffic, and he routinely got low 40s for mpg. This was with a '97 - the mileage rating for the '01-'05 was not as high, I don't believe. And he had power steering in that thing, and aircon too, which he used pretty much all the time.

2007 Hyundai Accent v 2007 Toyota Yaris Lift

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