Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Toyota Camry Hybrid Owners Problems & Solutions

1235

Comments

  • bob_grahambob_graham Member Posts: 63
    Hope thi helps. I have a 09 Camry Hybrid. The card titled Starting / Stopping Hybrid System & Switching Igntion On/Off" says:

    2. "Carry the key, simply press the button. Do not depress the brake pedal."

    Even shows a little picture of the foot "not" on the brake.
  • bob_grahambob_graham Member Posts: 63
    Does anyone know how to reset the oil change reminder after the oil is changed?
  • kperskykpersky Member Posts: 2
    My husband bought a new 2007 Camry Hybrid over a year ago. The interior smell is so overpowering it's difficult to ride in the car for long. He leaves the windows open overnight while the car is parked in the garage. Also, we live in San Diego so we are able to ride with the windows open. Still, after his 30 minute commute home his clothes smell like the interior of the car, and our garage smells this way. It is not new leather smell (although the interior is leather). It's a powerful, chemical smell. We talked to the dealer and they replaced the filter but this did no good. Any ideas???
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I would find a day I can do without the car and let the dealer have it an encourage him to let one of the salespeople with the longest commute take it home.

    After they experience the smell just the same way YOU are dealing with it, then they might be more willing to help you trace the cause.

    My guess it that it can't be HEALTHY if it is that overpowering.

    Regardless, I would insist the dealer find out the source of the smell. You might can get a new TCH out of this deal if they cannot locate the problem.
  • bob_grahambob_graham Member Posts: 63
    I had a 04 Mercedes C Class with a sort of rotten smell a few years ago. The dealer had a process where they sanitized the air system. This took about 4 hours.

    Had the same problem in a 98 Grand Cherokee. The Jeep dealer did the same thing to fix it. I also live in California near San Francisco so maybe the coast (moisture) adds to the problem.

    I think it was caused by moisture in the system. Can you describe the smell? Mine would get stronger with just fresh air and no air cond on.

    I have noticed a slight rotten smell a couple of times on my 09 Cmery Hybrid. It did go away.

    You should go right to the service manager, this problem can happen in any car. There may even be a TSB on this problem. It happens in a lot of cars.

    Check this site:

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_fix_a_car_air_conditioner_that_puts_out_a_- bad_smell_for_2-3_minutes_when_you_first_turn_on_the_air_conditioner
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Details are in your owner's manual.
  • sheldo1sheldo1 Member Posts: 64
    Anyone have problems with a humming noise when you use the AM band of the radio? I have this very annoying noise at certain frequencies only.
  • nkaizernkaizer Member Posts: 25
    I've got a 2009 TCH with the 16 inch 8 spoke aluminum wheels and 215 60 R 15 tires. I was wondering what would happen to the mileage computer if I upgraded to the LE's 17 inch rims with a 255 aspect ratio. What about the real nice TRD 18 inch rims. How would that affect the operation of the hybrid electric motor, i.e., perhaps reducing the stellar coasting ability I now enjoy (probably largely attributable to the CVT). Any thoughts on changing the wheel size on a TCH from the 16s to a maximum of 18s?
  • wreednelsonwreednelson Member Posts: 10
    It cost me $40 bucks to have the dealer disable the gustapo chime.
    It took them over an hour to get through the programming to do it.
    Worth every penny. Worth every minute.
  • wreednelsonwreednelson Member Posts: 10
    I have over 67,000 miles on my 2007 TCH bought in February 2007. It is a Kentucky built model. No NAV. No Leather. He are my tech notes of interest to this forum.
    Tires - The Bridgestone Turanzas are horrible. You will not see more than about 35,000 out of them. I changed to a different model after the second set at 62,000 miles. I am not an aggressive driver. :blush:

    Aftermarket GPS - Beware of GPS placements and electrical interference in the TCH. When powering GPS via 12vDC cords, I think the electrical frequencies confuse some GPS units.

    Battery - The NiMH batteries do not start the TCH nor do they run the accessories. The little 12vDC battery in your trunk does. You can kill the battery in a TCH just as quick as any other car.

    Starting - Beware of cell phones. Keep them away from your key fob and shut them off when diagnosing problems. [see manual... it talks about this]. Use the brake pedal.

    Turning Off - Do not touch the brake pedal!

    Aftermarket filters - Mine works fine [K&N]

    Bluetooth - Horrible system. Never use it due to noise and echo.

    Transmission - This is the best CVT on the market. Nissan buys it for their Altima Hybrid, and they already have a CVT in most of their cars. Enough said.

    ICE - It will run less in the summer months and you will get better mileage in the warm months of the year. Seems counterintuitive, but it is my observation.

    This is the best car I have ever owned. It is my 14th car. Lucky me! ;)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    What tires did you replace with after the Turanzas? I am at about 35K on my 2007 TCH and I will need tires soon and I'm not sure which way to go.

    Thanks in advance for any advice from any other owners
  • wreednelsonwreednelson Member Posts: 10
    They are Yokohamas, but the dealer chose them as I have a "tires for life" program. They seem fine, but you need to select tires from Consumer Reports if you the one paying for them. Your local library will have back issues. At the back of each issue is a product/date match-up index to help you find the most recent tire reviews.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Transmission - This is the best CVT on the market. Nissan buys it for their Altima Hybrid, and they already have a CVT in most of their cars. Enough said. "

    The Nissan CVT was not a hybrid unit. That is why they use the Toyota CVT. The Nissan CVT has been very reliable from what I have read. But in any case there can be no comparison between an HSD and a CVT. They are entirely different technologies.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    [non-permissible content removed]? I don't think so. The reminder chime isn't mandated by the government, which is why your dealer could disable it.

    Studies have shown the devices increase seat belt use, which in turn save lives in crashes. The chimes don't bother my wife or me because we always buckle our belts, except for pulling from our short driveway into the garage. And we always put heavy items in the trunk, not on the front passenger seat.

    To each his own, however!
  • wreednelsonwreednelson Member Posts: 10
    I was not speaking to the Nissan CVT's developmental origin or their mainline CVT's design intent.

    Nissan is a CVT powerhouse, and they could design one for the Hybrid. But they do/did not plan on selling a lot of Hybrids and the developmental costs of tranys and ICE's are too high these days.

    Anyway, this is a TCH forum and I should not have made the the Nissan CVT comment, nor should anyone have responded to it. Sorry for getting off track.
  • plknjplknj Member Posts: 121
    FYI... My TCH came with Michelin's and I just changed them to another set of Michelin's at 44,000 miles. At tirerack.com they are ine of the two tires listed as standard with the TCH. A little more expensive but they have been great ride and wear wise.
  • mirspotmirspot Member Posts: 15
    I bought mine in July 06 and had to replace the terrible Turanzas around 27K. Replaced with Michelin Pilot Exalto (after a LOT of deliberation scanning through tirerack.com and other similar sites and aliases) ... I like them so far... after 10K miles on them. But again, the moment of truth will probably arrive somewhere after 25K.

    My Tank Average display is showing around 39 mpg.....the other day it showed 40.5 ... but it has been hovering around 39 for the past ~2 months ... before it used to stay around 36. I think it's gone nuts... 40.5 couldn't be right, right? Well, my wife thinks I may have finally learned to drive normally ;)

    Also, just by looking at mpg numbers ... I think the Exaltos may have low roll resistance compared to other tires in it's class. One more thing, I try to keep them inflated at 34psi.

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Exalto- +A%2FS

    Good luck with your purchase.
  • jaedyn_99jaedyn_99 Member Posts: 4
    Hello all.

    I just picked up from 09 TCH three days ago. I am still learning the "best way" to drive this car, but I have a few questions that I need assistance with.

    1) One issue that doesn't seem normal to me...When I am at a complete stop, and then push the accelerator to go, there is a pause, a bump, a jerk, and then it takes off. Is this normal? It's like a jerking movement. Am I pushing the gas pedal too hard or not hard enough? I've tried it both ways, and it does the same thing every time.

    2) Also, when I turn on the car first thing, it's so quiet. Then about 10 seconds later, I hear the engine kick on. During the quiet seconds, is the car on? Am I able to move the car (back out of my driveway) during this time or do I have to wait to back out when the engine kicks on?

    3) When can you use the "B" feature (battery mode) instead of putting the car in "D" (drive)?

    Any information would be greatly appreciated!!!!! :)
  • lzclzc Member Posts: 483
    First, while I found the '07 TCH manual to be badly organized and written, your questions suggest you might benefit from reading sections of it. I hope they improved the '09 version.

    1. If the engine is off while stopped, pressing the accelerator restarts the engine. And yes there is a slight pause and sometimes, I'd call it, a little hiccup before starting off. A firmer push on the gas pedal should reduce the sensation. It's normal, though.

    2. I believe the engine cranks up 7 seconds after the "ready" light turns on. No need to wait. You can drive away immediately.

    3. The transmission "B" mode stands for engine braking. I believe its intended use is limited to vehicle control on steep grades. Normally, the brake pedal provides the best combination of braking and charging the battery.

    The TCH's hybrid system automatically determines the best combination of engine/battery use.

    Good luck with the new car. As far as I can tell, the TCH enjoys about 99% satisfied owners.
  • bob_grahambob_graham Member Posts: 63
    I have an 09 also

    1. Mine does the same thing - seems less so now that I have 6000 miles on it
    2. Pretty normal - You can drive right away, I think it does this to get the 4 cyl engine up to temp for emissions
    3. B is the braking mode, the transmission does not have gears, it is a CVT drive train, this mode creates braking as if you were down shifting - allows the battery to charge quickly and also slows down the car as you desend down hill..

    One note, for normal shut down you should turn off the car with you foot "OFF" of the brake.
  • wreednelsonwreednelson Member Posts: 10
    Just a quick note... not meant to be jabs. :P
    Everyone purchasing a $30K anything should read the manual before operating it. How about a short drive with a technician?

    Also, the CVT is this car is not the conventional metal belt/variable pulley design. It is really not a CVT at all, they just call it that. It is a fixed ratio planetary gearing device with a power split. The best explanation I could find is at the following link [note the HSD systems in the Prius and Camry are functionally the same].
    http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/toyota-prius-iii-hybrid-e-cvt-transmission-i- nfo
  • bob_grahambob_graham Member Posts: 63
    http://www.toyota.com/camry/specs.html

    Toyota refers to the transmission as ECVT - Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission.

    Have read the manual - thus the note about not depressing the brakes when turning off the car.
  • jaedyn_99jaedyn_99 Member Posts: 4
    Thanks!!!!
  • bob_grahambob_graham Member Posts: 63
    You will love this car. We have had ours since April. Mileage ranges from 37 to 44 per tank. One interesting point, the better the mileage the darker the blue rings around the speedometer get. It's like a game.....

    We have several vehicles - 05 Grand Cherokee Hemi, 05 Mercedes C240 4-matic, 06 Dodge Ram and a 66 Mustang. While the Grand is really the best for long trips the Camry is tops for the daily commute / San Francisco driving and the Mercedes is a great round town car. Of course for crusin the 66 Mustang takes top honors.

    Of all of them the Camry is outstanding in quality and shear quiet riding. It reminds us of Lexus we had several years ago.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    It's been a while since I've read on the technical aspect of the system. Got real involved in 2006 but since then...

    Are you sure of these comments?

    One note, for normal shut down you should turn off the car with you foot "OFF" of the brake.

    Why is that? I didn't even realize the system would shut down unless you had your foot "ON" the brake

    B is the braking mode, ....down shifting - allows the battery to charge quickly and also slows down the car as you desend down hill..

    Several posters have reported that the B mode does not assist in charging and that applying the brake is a preferred method of regenerative charging
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I don't know about the first point, but on the second point you are correct. The B position should be used only on long, steep downgrades, similar to shifting a conventional transmission into a lower gear.
  • carlclark1951carlclark1951 Member Posts: 1
    Love my hybrid. Has been averaging 38-40 MPG, Returned after a 1000+ mile trip with no problems whatsoever. After using another vehicle for the past week, the THC won't start. The start battery is hot but nothing comes on. Maybe I deprogramed the Key dodad?
  • siestakeyjimmysiestakeyjimmy Member Posts: 3
    Air Conditioning Blower potential problem!

    I’m in love with my new TCH – no doubt! And one of the things I love the most is the absolute quiet – allowing me to really enjoy the Stereo!

    But now my silence is being ruined by a new “crinkling sound” in the air conditioning system. Sadly, I think I know what caused it…

    I parked my TCH under a pine tree overnight, and the next day it was covered with small branches and pine needles. Not thinking anything of it, I hosed it down, and watched as all that roof debris washed down the windshield and disappeared under the hood (immediately under the windshield).

    Surprise – suddenly the astounding quiet of the interior is now spoiled by the rattle of junk blowing around inside the HVAC system. (It varies with the blower speed, but is annoying at any setting).

    Lifting the hood, I can see the problem. The grating (The air intake for the HVAC system – I guess) is very coarse (Large ¼ inch square holes), apparently allowing small pine needles / branches to enter the system. (I checked my other (GM) car and that same area is all protected with a very fine screen door like mesh.).

    My Toyota dealer says to bring it in and they will see about fixing the problem, I certainly hope they can as I’ve only got 1,200 miles on my brand new car and this sound is noticeable by my passengers.

    So…no more parking under pine trees for me!
  • jaedyn_99jaedyn_99 Member Posts: 4
    My 09 TCH has the same "crinkling sound too!" You can't hear it at the lowest setting (1 bar), but you can hear it when it's set at two bars or above. I'm going to have to have them check it out, but I just picked up my vehicle from the dealer for another problem....

    My car was making a horrible scraping/grinding sound whenever I would turn. Took it in, and come to find out, the brake shims were installed backwards. It's not even a month old! Needless to say, it was corrected...but it has definitly bursted my "excited new car buying experience" bubble. :cry:
  • siestakeyjimmysiestakeyjimmy Member Posts: 3
    Please let me know if your dealer is able to resolve the problem - thanks!
  • mrpatmrpat Member Posts: 24
    I sprayed ozium into the air intake for 30 seconds with fan on high. It has helped so far. I also asked my wife to turn the ac compressor off and set the auto to 80 deg until you feel heat before shutting down. It must be a defect in the ac drain system.
    They say outgassing of the plastics is also a problem. We dont smoke but I had to use glass polish to get the inside windows clear. It previously looked like a smokers car.
  • mrpatmrpat Member Posts: 24
    B mode is only for steep grades. The battery does not charge at all in b mode.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I just had a tranny coolant leak in my 2007 TCH with 37,800 miles on it.

    Was getting warning messages:

    Check Hybrid System and
    Check VSC System

    on the dash display.

    Dealer in Mesa AZ says it's the first one they've seen, so the repair may take a couple of days. Covered under the powertrain warranty, so it won't cost me a penny.

    I'll let people know how it turns out.
  • schmeevenschmeeven Member Posts: 4
    We have a 2007 TCH with a very obnoxious "chemical" smell, which I find intolerable, less so to my wife. Toyota has worked on the a/c system 3 or 4 times..new coil, new evaporator tray, cleaned upholstery, flushed system with Febrese, to no avail,

    I hired an environmental firm to do a complete voc (volatile organic compound) test as well as formaldyhyde. Results were awful! Formaldyhyde in acceptable limits but the voc test showed huge concentration of acetonitrile, also known as methyl cyanide!
    We have parked the car at the dealer for nearly a month...Toyota "Total Customer Care" center in Ca. consulted their engineers who said nothing containing Acetonitrile is in car....not good enough...we have never carried or used any solvents or other compounds containing it. TCH on the other hand has a huge nickle/metal hydride battery...does that use acetonitrile, or did the very first models (ours was the first delivered at our dealer)?. Also, this car must have plenty of powerful capacitors and motor controllers, which probably can produce methyl cyanide when they fail. This has a big traction motor . Toyota also has taken patents on using non-aqueous electrolytes including acetonitrile. I view this as a very serious health risk, especially after reading an advisory from the Michigan health System regarding exposure to methyl cyanide.
    This smell is not musty or moldy but very distinctly chemical in nature.
  • kperskykpersky Member Posts: 2
    Yes! This is exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes I think it smells like bandaids - rubber/plastic. It gives me a headache but my husband is not bothered by it (and this is his car). What is your next step?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I would doubt the source of the odor is the battery or other electrical components. These are all sealed off from the interior of the car.

    My bet is that almost any new car tested would show potentially harmful chemicals lurking in that "new car smell." But the same is true for new carpets, new plywood, new particle board, etc. Then in older buildings, you could have lead paint dust or asbestos particles. I just take reasonable precautions like avoiding cigarette smoke and don't worry about the other stuff.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    It would be highly unusual if SOME of the TCHs had the "chemicals" and others did not.

    I have owned mine since June 2006 and have ridden in about 4 others, and none have had any issues like that.

    My guess is that it's nothing "hybrid related" at all.

    ANOTHER ISSUE:

    In relation to my new tranny as mentioned in post 238, it performed without a glitch on my 2200 mile trip to Texas on the day after it was installed.

    Kudos to the Riverview Toyota mechanic crew.
  • shook4shook4 Member Posts: 4
    Look in your Owner's Manual under... Resetting the engine oil maintenance data. I have a 2007 model and it is on page 148. I change the oil/filter every 3,000 miles and had this problem prior to the second oil change.
    Good Luck
  • sds1sds1 Member Posts: 1
    We have had the same problem with a 2007 Camry XLE purchased used a few months ago. As a condition of purchase the dealership was asked to remove the smell. After 2 ozone treatments most of it was still there. It's a distinct chemical/leather smell and effects our throat and airways. There is a TSB # 0075-08 issued by Toyota for 2007 - 2008 Camrys and Avalons. In some vehicles it appears that a coating in the air conditioning evaporator in coming loose and being blown into the interior of the vehicle . This may be responsible for the chemical smell. The TSB provides for the replacement of the evaporator unit. Hope this helps.
  • rich96789rich96789 Member Posts: 1
    We have a 2008 toyota camery hybrid. We love it and the car drives very well, getting about 39-40 mpg. It may have its first glitch. At the 20,000 mile mark, I thought that the readout on the dash was for regular 5,000 mile maint. but it was Hybrid Drive Malfunction. I had the car towed to the closest Servco, this happend on 30 Nov 2008. The car is still in the shop. First, the inverter system had to be changed and was on back order, next the transmission had to some parts replaced, next, the ECU computer had to be replaced. When I called today, 6 Jan 09, they said they were still working on it and had their technical dept. researching the problem. This tells me that they still have lights coming on when they test drive.
    Has anyone had any major problems with their camery hybrid? I have a loaner for this time but let me know if I need to ask better questions.
    Thanks, rich
  • drat4drat4 Member Posts: 7
    With 88,000 miles on my car it is good this happened now. Two months ago on a Sat the check engine light went on but experienced no problem driving. Went right to the dealer and they couldn't find anything but reset the light. Two days later on the highway seemed like every available dash light went on. "Check VSC system" and "Check Hybrid System" alerts showed up alternating on the dash. Pulled over, turned off car, waited two minutes. Restarted car and drove off but noticed it was only using ICE. Check monitor on console and the battery was discharging while driving and had only one bar left. Pulled over, waited again and car wouldn't start, towed to dealer. Took 6 weeks to get back on a Sat but thought they had found the problem with a corroded connector housing and block assembly. They also put in a new 12 volt battery that I paid for. Next day started the car after having driven to a restaurant and lights went on again. But this time the hybrid battery was charging and discharging with the battery level bars on the Monitor changing from blue to light green to purple and back again. I was able to drive it but again only using the ICE, took to dealer the next morning (Mon)--- fortunately it was charging batteries and didn't have to tow.
    Up to now has been a terrific car.
    Any similar experiences? The dealer still has the car and have called for help and has given me great loaners all along.
  • schmeevenschmeeven Member Posts: 4
    This is so far from a "new car smell" it is laughable...and by the way it is pretty irrelevant what the smell is or even whether everyone can smell it....it is the presence of methyl cyanide in high concentration that means the car is still sitting at the dealer's after 6 weeks....give me a break Toyota....this is my 5th Toyota and that's how you take care of loyal customers?
  • pat85pat85 Member Posts: 92
    The instructions for re-setting the maintenance required warning is at the top of page 295 in the 2009 manual.
    It says to turn the car off with the trip setting in the A trip mode.
    Then holding in the trip reset button, start the car. Continue to hold the reset button in until it says "Reset Complete."
    Apparently, the page numbers for this instruction vary with each year's Manuals
  • gillesmtlgillesmtl Member Posts: 55
    I own a 2007 TCH, since june 2006. I am an electrical engineer and was curious : I measured the battery current in various conditions. The "B" (engine braking mode) does charge the battery at ±20 amperes, the same as it can do when running in "D" and braking.
  • hdrasinhdrasin Member Posts: 1
    Dealers charge more for hybrid service. The Toyota website does not list any specific additional services required by the hybrid. The dealer tried to explain to me what services were needed, but I really didn't understand it and both he and I were too busy to belabor the matter. Does anyone know, in layman's terms, what specific extra servicing is required by the hybrid that is NOT required by the standard Camry? I am referring to the routine every six months/5000 mile servicing. Thanks.
  • wreednelsonwreednelson Member Posts: 10
    The HSD is electrical. There are no wear items. Simple inspections of certain items of the system for connection and/or corrosion are required. Nothing expensive. The maintenance of mechanical parts of the HSD system are addressed in the manual. Don't let the dealers rip you off. Most of them are scam artists. They love to use electronics to cause confusion and make money. Case in point, I was charged $60 o change the battery in a key fob and was told I could not do it myself when I complained. The truth... $5 for the battery and I can do it myself.
  • pat85pat85 Member Posts: 92
    The Hybrid uses 0 weight oil. It is more expensive than 10 W 30, Other than that it should cost no more. I am taking mine in for a 5,000 mile cfheck up.

    My experience with a local Honda dealer was that they tried to sell woman unnecessary services. They seemed to know men would say "Forget it.":
  • pat85pat85 Member Posts: 92
    I paid $60.93 for the 5000 mile service. It seemed reasonable for the DC area.
    It took about an hour and 20 minutes.
    It was basically an oil change, tire rotation and check everything.
    Interesting, they list the price to replace the items they checked.
    For example, replace cabin air filter (Recommended at 15 000 miles) $52.95.
  • hybridsfanhybridsfan Member Posts: 1
    So, what's the outcome? Did Toyota fix the car? Please let me know.
  • wreednelsonwreednelson Member Posts: 10
    I had my windshield replaced and started getting condensation in the car about a week later... A LOT of condensation. The floor became saturated and mildew and mold started to form. You can't tell until it is already pretty bad because of the rubber bottoms of the mat set.
    I did some research and found three potential problems:
    1-Windshield or cowling leak... of course I was higly suspicious of this because of the recent change.
    2-Moonroof drain clog
    3-Evaporator coil leak or evaporator drain plug clog

    The first issue was easy to diagnose. Seal and cowling components are easy to inspect. They were fine and the carpet up near the firewall was dry as a bone.

    The second issue would require too much for me to diagnose... so I saved that for a pro.

    The last issue was scary. The Evap coil is behind the dash and requires hours of labor to remove. But leaks are rare. Research showed the drain tube was a common culprit, bocoming clogged with mold. A light shot of compressed air often clears the clog and the problem is resolved. I located the little rubber tube coming out of the Evap box under the car and gave it a little blow with my compressor gun. IT WORKED! Water ran out of the drain for a couple of minutes before stopping.

    Here is the stick folks. If you take the car to the dealer they will NOT be honest to you. Everything I read showed charges about $1000 or more. They will tell you they need to replace that little $3 tube but they have to disaassemble the dash. While you sit for 8 hours they do nothing but what I did. They may tell you a new Evap coil is needed. This is BS 99.9% of the time. Make them prove there is a leak before they do the work. They can do this with the hood up and their AC system test equipment hooked up. If they give ANY excuse as to why they can't they are, again, trying to rip you off. :mad:

    In my experience, car dealer maintenance departments are among they worst kind of rip-off-artists anywhere. Another trick is the cabin air filter scam. Read the manual. It says to blow it out once before changing it. I had THREE dealers tell me this was wrong after they wanted to replace my filter for $40 [it is $20 at Autozone and takes less than 1 minute to replace]. Each time I showed them the manual instructions on this item and they crawled under a rock [where they belong]! :P

    Read the manual. Do you own troubleshooting and research. Protect yourself.
Sign In or Register to comment.