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Comments
Have a great day;
A. how long are your trips? Minutes or miles?
B. at what speeds normally does the highway traffic move?
C. how many are normally in the vehicle while you are diriving?
D. weather?
Based on your preliminary date from above your conbined FE from the EPA testing criteria should be about 30.5 mpg.
But...
a. if your normal drive is 15 min or less deduct 15%
b. if the highway speeds are over 70 mph deduct 15%
c. if the vehicle normally has 3+ passengers in it deduct 10%
d. if the weather is very rainy/slick deduct 10%
e. if the AC is on full blast most of the time deduct 5%
If all of these are in effect at the same time your personal FE could be as low as 16 mpg. That's why the statement YMMV ( Your Mileage May Vary ). If only two of them are characteristic of your driving at any one time then you should be in the 22-24 mpg range.
BTW, I own a LE V6, I have driven it for a month and put on 2200miles on it. Very satisfied.
Minor cons: the center console light at night is too bright; braking as mentioned above.
MPG, in city i am getting 22 which is normal. On highway, I think it reached over 30. No excitement, just EPA numbers.
Camry TSB 6A Flare
~alpha
And so we have issued a new Technical Services Bulletin, kindly posted earlier by alpha01, that calls out the service procedures (valve body replacement) our dealers are to follow to address specific performance issues . . . i.e. unusually high 3rd-4th gear shift flare as described by customers who are confirmed to have had this issue with their Camrys. The procedure has been shown to eliminate or bring to within normal operation the increased engine speed occurring during that shift point.
What should owners do if they suspect they might be experiencing this condition in their Camrys? Contact any Toyota dealer and arrange for a service visit where the condition can be confirmed and steps taken to complete the TSB work--at no charge. Or call the Customer Experience Center at 800-331-4331 for additional information.
This issue appears to be impacting only a very limited number of V6 Camrys, but we are confident the service procedures prescribed within the TSB will contribute to a much more satisfying ownership experience for those customers who have had this condition with their Toyota. Toyota has long been known for reliable & dependable vehicles, and we remain as committed as ever to this mission.
Thanks again to all who have contributed to the discussions . . .tmsusa looks forward to continued engagement with 2007 Camry enthusiasts on Edmunds.
Thanks for being a part of the Toyota family!
I, as well as many other owners, would like to know how we can view all of the TSB's related to the Camry. As far as I am concerned, there is no reason that they shouldn't be freely accessable. If you would, please give details as to how you are able to get these.
Also, it is quite interesting that there wasn't a word about this particular TSB from any Toyota representative until "AFTER" your note was posted.
Thanks again - and if you happen to hear of anything related to the hesitation issue with the 4-cyl 5AT vehicles, please keep us informed.
The site is utilized primarily by our field & dealer technical personnel, but Toyota makes it available for a nominal subscription fee to any who are interested in more in-depth technical information about our products and service procedures.
Re your comment about the after-the-fact acknowledgement of this TSB, I would have to say I understand your sentiment. Actually, we issue TSBs routinely for many highly technical and not-so-technical matters involving all of our Toyota, Scion and Lexus products. We also report them to regulatory agencies. Perhaps, I will excerpt a post that tmsusa placed earlier on another enthusiast forum dedicated to Lexus to further expand my position on this . . .
Originally Posted by tmsusa
Those are good points. Please keep in mind that this effort to be a little more proactive in our nontraditional means of communicating to consumers is new--Never before have we gone to online forums or blogs or other 24/7 internet-based channels to get accurate information out to the public in such a transparent manner.
Yes--It seems to tmsusa that it would be right and proper to disclose such things as Technical Service Information Bulletins; however, some areas within the organization remain sensitive to publicizing technical materials. This material should be readily available via our own corporate websites, IMO. And while it is copyrighted, the documents are available to the public by accessing our Technical Information Service website.
There definitely is value to us and our customers in participating and monitoring discussions on forums like this. You should be aware that tmsusa has been engaged in several other online enthusiast forums, such as Edmunds, FJCruiserCruiserForums, PriusChat and ToyotaNation, has posted relevant information such as Special Service Campaigns--and will be happy to be involved to the extent possible within this forum.
This is not spin control, either. We could hire a PR firm for that if needed. And while it is inappropriate and impractical to address individual issues within this space, I'll do my best to identify you and get the folks in our Lexus CAC to get back in touch with you.
Thanks much for your input.
The present cost structure for the Technical Information Service database is ridiculously high and makes it prohibitive for the average owner who would like to check for any issues that might pertain to their vehicles.
Please pass this on to corporate.
Toyota is obviously hesitant to admit (in print) that they have a problem and are working on a solution, since the news media could pick up on it as well as all the other car manufacturers to help sell their brands. But, on the other hand stonewalling the problem with owners only makes them angry who end up wanting a lemon law buyback. Angry customers make for lost sales. (The American brands still haven't figured that one out yet. Instead, they keep downsizing as they lose more and more of their customers.)
The hesitation problem is a safety issue that urgently needs to be solved before someone is seriously injured or killed. That could lead to a class action lawsuit, and all the media covering the problem. (Audi lost a lot of sales from all their bad publicity some years back.)
Toyota is to be commended for having a representative on this board who participates. Rather than one individual, TMSUSA is probably a committee of different people(Toyota Motors Support USA). I have no problem with that. I believe that PR money spent on these boards is well spent. Toyota benefits and so do Toyota owners.
I think I'd have immediately driven back and told them you are putting a stop on the check and given them 24 hours to repair or show you another vehicle. At the very least I'd want the tranny warranted for 7/100K which is the most you can buy a warranty for.
Actually, I would wager that TMSUSA is a representative of Toyota Motor Sales USA.
Could be wrong = but not just any representative either.
It's nice to see his participation in the forum, and also see that he is essentially indicating that the subjective anecdotal reports and objective experience submissions (like video evidence) are credible and getting to the proper people in the company to correct these behaviors.
This should put others at ease who are being told that either "everything is normal" or "they all do that". But that is part of the rub. Until the TSB issue, dealers evidently had no yardstick to compare the behaviors and determine that service was required.
Obviously, with the shift flare, that is not normal operation.
Yes, it would be nice to hear TMSUSA address the hesitation and the cruise control behaviors which have been reported.
Like the shift flare, I don't think owners will achieve satisfaction until subsequent TSBs are issued and publicized; until then - and perhaps TMSUSA could comment - how would an owner possibly encourage a responsive dealership or the company to attempt to diagnose and correct these issues?
I have not look over the TB very well,, but I have a 500-2k RPM 2-3 gear spike. (happens every day, about 2-3 times a day) Is it possible this new TB might be able to fix this problem as well? Or would it be limited to 3-4 gear spike in particular?
Toyota's attitude about supplying technical information to owners or independent service personnel probably isn't unique to that automaker. But, there are exceptions. Hyundai (and its sister division, KIA), merely by reference to policy contrast, not product quality, freely allows viewing and printouts of its TSB archives to any and all comers - whether Hyundai/KIA owners or not. So, there is a precedent that can be argued to Toyota. In fact, both makes also make available most of their individual make and model year shop manuals online for the past decade, too.
(I'll have to admit to a certain perverse satisfaction in the couple of times I've needed to insist on a minor adjustment under a TSB campaign for my '03 Sonata when seeing the look of deflated consternation on the service manager's face after he flatout denied the existence of whatever applicable TSB once I presented him with a printout of it. Life can be sweet, as in the unspoken smirk that screams, "Gotcha, you lying piece of poo-doo!" That look of embarassment is, A> priceless and B>, i>do help keep 'em honest... And, that possibility may be the real reason Toyota is reticent to allow free access to its TSBs.)
This is legit, but you may find Adobe/Acrobat reader locks up when you try to open the actual TSBs. If you're savvy with computers, you can work around this. Also, our experience (at my workplace) indicates if you try to open too many TSBs at the same time, the site will start asking for a password, stopping you in your tracks.
Actually, i'm not a member. Do this. Go to dogpile.com and type in "AARC auto repair" and click search. There will be a link that says Bedford Public Library in Blue letters. Click on that. Then click the arrc link that is on the next page. This will take you to a screen with model year numbers. Select your [model year] and the select toyota then click camry then click the model you have. On the next screen click on "Service Bulletins and Recalls" scroll down [the various topics (engine, transmission, etc.) that you want to view].
"GM, which has made big strides in quality, must also further improve its products and boost their resale values. The company still spends close to $600 per vehicle under warranty, versus about $300 at Toyota/Lexus and a low $100 at Honda/Acura. Warranty costs are a product of defects and recalls. These, along with GM's relatively high sales to commercial fleets, which turn over vehicles quickly, depress resale values. A basic Buick LaCrosse or Toyota Camry both sell for around $22,000. But, according to Edmonds.com, taking into account everything from gas to repairs, and most especially predicted resale value, the Camry will set its owner back $34,000 over five years, versus $40,000 for the Buick."
I just ordered a 2007 Camry since I loved the ride comfort in Camry better than the Honda (I loved the Honda's handling). I was not aware of the transmission issues till after I ordered the car. Now I find that Hondas have fewer/less expensive problems than Camrys! sigh!
Why waste the gas - now that he's got his commission on your purchase, do you honestly believe he really gives a flyin' fig? Here on out during your ownership of your new car, your dealing's with service, not sales - entirely different divisions within a dealership.
But clearly, these forums are an excellent arena in which Camry owners & enthusists can come together and exchange information about their likes, dislikes and other issues. This thread is known as "woes", so tmsusa does not enter the discussion without the knowledge that he will encounter a lot of frustration, anger and disappointment. Also, unfortunately, more lack of knowledge about normal operational characteristics.
So,we're spending a lot more time listening (reading) within these discussion threads and probably less time talking than most folks would like. Yes, we are reacting to what we see/hear here, we are investigating technical concerns that are brought to our attention here, and we are looking at individual customer issues and providing direct input to our Toyota Customer Services group for intervention. One good example of just how much has changed in our corporate communications procceses is the issuance of that valve body TSB earlier. A good portion of the origination of the service process specified to correct certain shift spike anomalies came from those here that brought their real world experiences to our attention.
We're far from perfect, and it takes little more than reading these forums to validate that. And that's good. . .It keeps us keenly aware that we cannot afford to merely rest on our historically favorable reputation. We need to kaizen in every aspect of our business to retain a leadership position in this industry and protect the strong customer loyalty we enjoy. Engagement by tmsusa in a "woes" discussion is part of that kaizening.
Thank you for your comments.
As a company rep, this is not a good thing to be saying to angry "major hesitation" customers being told this same thing by dealers.
The fact is our vehicles are technologically complex machines with laser guided cruise controls & transmissions that learn.
We don't do the best we could in educating owners, whether that be at the point of delivery or after the sale. It's keeping up with knowledge management, and we are working very hard to strengthen that for the benefit of our customers,
I just want to bring this to your attention that if there is any problem with gas mileage or the hesitation, please do a research on that and fix that in the camrys as you did for the rpm spike.
Nissan/Infiniti provides all of it's TSB for FREE on the Interent! I also owns a G35 as well as our new SE V6 Camry.
I have no major problems other than the Camry is not even close to the responsiveness of the G35. The Camry's V6 has more horsepower and a little less torque but Toyota's "drive by wire" needs some work. I'll probably look to after market "software upgrades" for the TCU ot hopefully Toyota will provide a software upgarde for the throttle response if more owners complain.
IT's alright BUT they should have "tweeked" the SE model to make it more sports like.
The fact is our vehicles are technologically complex machines with laser guided cruise controls & transmissions that learn.
We don't do the best we could in educating owners, whether that be at the point of delivery or after the sale. It's keeping up with knowledge management, and we are working very hard to strengthen that for the benefit of our customers.
A politically astute way of saying what you said previously.
Perhaps what Toyota has on your hands is an overcomplicated design that wasn't adequately tested before being released to the masses.
I'm really angry, because this is the prevalent attitude that all of us with REAL (yes, the word is real!) problems get before Toyota admits to a problem, and then we get excuses.
A good portion of owners posting on THIS forum are extremely knowledgeable about automotive systems and operations, and those who may not be are expressing frustration with problems they KNOW are not "normal".
We don't do the best we could in educating owners, whether that be at the point of delivery or after the sale.
I'm tired of seeing this from Toyota - this comment has been used more than once, about the 4-cyl hesitation issue, the 5AT transmission/cruise control shift issues, and the 6AT flare issue. Every time it is used as an excuse to say that the owner doesn't understand the operation of the "new" systems. In actuality, there are operational issues, which should never be described as "normal". Some of these issues have been addressed; hopefully, the rest will be addressed in the near future.
We have a brand new Avalon and are on a trip to the east coast with it. When opportunity presents, we have been documenting our experiences with this new vehicle in the Avalon forum. So far no problems at all, so not everybody is upset with Toyota these days!! It sometimes seems as though some folks with problems tend to insist that everyone else should have them too!!
I can't speak for everyone, but as an owner of a problem car I can say Toyota took great care of me and had consideration for my time.
Just yesterday I got a full refund on my 07 Camry XLE, which had 2 transmissions replaced. I used the refund to buy a Camry Hybrid. Toyota made the process relatively painless and kept me informed along the way, and they always kept their promises regarding contacting me.