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Comments
Oh, sorry. I just assumed you've had a very bad experience with the 07 Camry since some of your posts have bordered on negative.
lol, I'll admit I've taken and made calls while driving, though I'll admit it isn't the smartest thing to do. I practice sports medicine, so no I haven't seen any in emerg though I've certainly heard stories from colleagues.
"How about Lighting a Cigarette? Should we make that illegal while driving? Sipping your Starbucks? Putting on makeup? None of that is illegal....."
Very true, but I remember while in med school in Chicago, some friends were complaining about the talk of seat belt laws becoming mandatory. They'd argue that they have constitutional rights... But this never made sense to me, since driving is NOT a right, but a priviledge, sooo... if the US gov't wants to make one thing illegal and another not... then that's the way it's going to be.
"Meanwhile, to get back to the topic, I'm alarmed that Toyota has first year woes on the Camry - you don't expect that from Toyota, and usually buy with confidence, first year or not. This is very distressing... very distressing indeed."
It's an unfortunate reality that nobody let alone any company can stay PERFECT for ever. I think the only person in history to ever come close was named Jesus!
They might qualify as opinion, and while opinion deserves respect, they shouldn't be regarded as, or touted as gospel by any stretch of the imagination.
Some Examples:
Statements often made about all Dealers and their Service Depts. being incompetent, corrupt, dishonest, and other such obtuse compliments. I suggest this stereotype is unfair to a good many people in the business who aren't like that at all. Let's be real here..We're hearing only one side of these stories, and after all, this is the internet where anonymity prevails.
Next, the claim that the issue which dominates this thread--hesitation in it's many forms--is "a broad application". At least until now, this hasn't beeen shown to be correct because it isn't being universally reported, nor has it been shown to be an across the board application either.
Another claim--that the issue was only in Lexus a few years ago but has now propagated to the entire line. This idea is touted as plausible by the more technically astute contributors to this discussion, but the technical justifications accompanying it won't pass knowledgeable scrutiny by engineers who design transaxle systems.
Yet another claim---the software designers for these transmissions are incompetent. I really challenge this, and would certainly like to know how any one person who isn't involved in the process can say such a thing. Let's just leave it at that.
One more profoundly made statement--a recall wasn't done because of a potential loss of prestige, embarrassment,etc. How on earth would anyone except company officials by privy to a policy such as that? It's one thing to say it, but another to prove that it really happened. Tossing claims like that one around isn't responsible in my opinion.
I'm speaking out about this not as a supporter of any particular automaker, and I fully realize this forum is by default going to attract negatives. However I do think participants sometimes go overboard in their criticisms. I simply felt it would be right to try and put some criticisms being made into perspective. No offence intended.
You would think they would have learned they were not infallable from the engine / oil change issue from a few years back.
Such claims probably stem from last summer's frequent news releases such as the one below from Associated Press...
AP 12:53 p.m. ET July 21, 2006
TOKYO - In a rare public scolding of Japan’s biggest company, the government reprimanded Toyota Friday and called for improved recall practices amid a criminal investigation into a 2004 accident.
The transportation ministry issued a “guidance” order requiring the automaker to report to the ministry by Aug. 4 steps it is taking to better monitor reports of defects and speed up communication within the company about possible problems, a ministry official said on customary condition of anonymity.
The ministry did not fine Toyota or find it guilty of breaking the law.
But public prosecutors, who are independent of the government, may still file charges against Toyota Motor Corp. officials, who are under investigation.
Toyota Executive Vice President Masatami Takimoto said the manufacturer will do its best to beef up its practices as instructed by the ministry.
“We take the directives from the ministry very seriously,” he said in a statement.
The widely reported recall investigation — coming at a time when Toyota recalls are ballooning — has been a major embarrassment for Toyota because of its solid reputation for quality.
Earlier this month, police said they were sending papers to prosecutors on three Toyota officials in a criminal investigation on suspicion of professional negligence for allegedly shirking recalls for eight years.
Police say they suspect the three Toyota officials, whose names have not been disclosed because they have not been charged, knew about the problems as far back as 1996 but took no action.
The defects being investigated, a suspected faulty steering part, may have caused an August 2004 head-on crash in southwestern Japan that injured five people, they say.
Okay, dealers and service departments. If anyone asks me where do they take their car for service it would be a rare occassion, a VERY rare occassion, were I to send them to anyone other than the marque dealer. The only exception I know if is the third party shop that has serviced my Porsches since ~1983. But then he is so booked up that he doesn't readily accept new customers.
Regardless of how hard I press my own son and his wife to use Ford to service their 1994 AWD Aerostar they will always take it to some third party first, usually Firstone or Goodyear.
Why?
Doesn't everyone know that most of these third party shops are simply rip-off experts? 30% commission to their mechanics for "upselling" customers.
Again, Why?
Because even in light of the above, the public at large has a higher opinion of these rip-off shops than they do of the dealer shops.
If you do not have the wherewithall, knowledge and experience required to challenge the conclusions, diagnostic analysis procedures, of any of these shops then IMMHO you're most likely to be ripped off regardless.
For instance, how many perfectly good car batteries are replaced every day when all that is really needed is to clean, burnish, and tighten the connections to the battery posts?
A few years ago my son's 1992 Aerostar developed an intermittent problem wherein it would only upshift out of low gear at an extraordinarily higher speed.
He must of spent upwards of $500, having it "serviced" at at least three different shops. I finally told him if he would take it to Ford I would pay the bill. $200 later Ford said their diagnostic indicated an internal governor problem and estimated that a complete transmission replacement was in order.
It turned out even I was remiss in this instance. I had assumed that by 1994, with the engine ECU providing transmssion shifting logic, that the engine vacuum modulator was no longer in use to control shifting.
Wrong.
So it was time for some self-education. The 1992 Aerostar did have a vacuum modulator, and when I subsequently disconnected the vacuum line from it the Aerostar exhibited the very same symptoms.
So, off to Ford again and another $200 for them to install a new vacuum modulator. Guess what, same problem.
So, we swap our own low(er) mileage 1994 AWD Aerostar with my son's 1992 AWD Aerostar and now the 92 is local so I have lots of time and opportunity to troubleshoot it.
The problem?
The new vacuum modulator has a "set-screw" type adjustment to compensate for specific vehicular variations. Which, apparently the Ford mechanic/technician eiter ignored or was not aware of.
More stories, call me.
I think it would be helpful for example, to instead be getting updates from folks with the 6A Spike issue, the 6A Snap Ring issue and the 5A hesitation (which I believe was corrected by a TSB and no longer afflicts new prod.).
When I request them, since I rent every week, Avis usually gives me a Camry. The only issue I had with one was a broken center stack door (would not latch closed) - though I imagine this one was fairly well traveled - the example had 22,000 miles on the odo already, and the earliest it could have been in service was late March. I also picked it up at ORD, and it had AZ plates..... and I took it to Milwaukee.
My other issue with the new Camry is more materials related - as noted by Consumer Reports - the flashing for the inside door handle - inside portion is too sharp to be considered up to Toyota standards, IMO.
Otherwise, the Camry (and the Sonata for its killer V6 at the price point) are my favorite rentals since I started this job (and rent cars weekly or bi-weekly) since Jan.
~alpha
This discussion is indeed about difficulties people are having with their 07 Camrys (not potential difficulties, btw) and not for all this other extraneous stuff.
And regarding "enough voices are heard" it usually only takes one email to me, not a chorus of posts - those of you who have dealt with me in the past know that (alpha!!
Let's get back on topic. Thanks.
Other than going to the dealer, does anyone know if there is a way I can check which version of the code was installed on my car?
the one for the 5 speed is the only one that apparently 'reprograms' the computer (the 'cdoe' change you are referencing) and, at least by reports here, has met with some success. It does not apply to the 6 speed, however.
the 6 speed TSB has to do with a internal valve replacement and again by reports here, has not been nearly as successful.
Folks with the 4 cyl. 5 speed are reporting a different kind of transmission misbehavior than is being reported in the V6/6 speed combination and I'm not sure that Toyota has figured out what to do about it yet.
I have an SE V6 that has about 4000 miles on it and it still has unacceptable "throttle" response. I have gotten used to it because It's my wife's car and I don't drive it that often. It goes great if you apply at least 3/4 pedal push all the time.
Hopefully Toyota does something about this.
Thanks for the response. After searching back through previous posts, I saw several that describe a hesitation when coasting down from say 40mph to 10mph then flooring the pedal.
My experience is traveling at higher speeds like 50 - 60 mph behind someone then depressing the pedal perhaps to 3/4 to pass them, this is when I get at least a full second, maybe more in the lag time before the engine responds.
I did not expect a Toyota to have this kind of a hesitation issue.
Anyone else experiencing this issue? If so, let's be heard so that a solution is found for this problem.
the 6 speed reports are more like what you are talking about, rapid acceleration from a cruising condition during which time there is a delay (and engine speed spike) before the desired downshift engagement.
The two are different - I have never experienced any 'spikes' or delays of any sort from a cruising condition or for that matter any problems at all with smooth (and very rapid) acceleration once my foot is on the throttle. Look for rather lengthy posts by wwest concerning what he calls 'full lift throttle', theories that I believe have some merit as to what might really be happening in those deepest synapses of our new car's computers.
Sorry to hear that Toyota apparently has not been able to solve the 6 speed behavorial issues.
I do believe that this may be related to the computer programming. Perhaps Toyota needs to look at the parameters used to account for people who press the pedal much more quickly (heck, I am only 47 and grew-up in the muscle car era, hehe).
On the drive home from work, I did a test to see if easing into the pedal made a difference and it does. This somewhat confirms wwest's theory but under a different set of operating parameters.
Where are you TMUSA? Help......
Given that tranmission swaps seem not to have worked for many people (based on this and other forums) - I do have my suspicions that this is nothing more than a 'buying time' solution until a real fix/redesign is available. I'd rather not put any more miles on my car. I'd rather get the dealer to swap cars not just a tranmission. I have only 375 miles on the ODO so far.
Question: But just to be fair, let me ask has anyone had a transmission swap, that has not acted up again after a few hundred miles or weeks?
Thanks
Ron
Is there a reason for this? Can the LED Tail Lights be purchased and put on a non-hybrid model such as the XLE?
I am waiting for delivery of my cars and reading posts like yours is really makes me scared.
It is regretable that perceptions carry on for a long time.
At present, I myself carry the perception that the Japanese builds have higher quality and dependablity. I have no scientific proof or study I can cite. But after years of hearing similar perceptions from others and seeing in-person the less than stellar assembly in mainstream domestic branded autos, at present I feel QC is more the strength of overseas (read Japan) manufacturers, whereas innovation is more the US strenght as far as autos are concerned.
Incidently, my dealship called today. New 6 speed tranny in, I'll pick it up in a few hours. And report to group on my initial preceptions and 100, 200, 300 mile follow ups later on.
For what's it worth - Dealership has been awesome and sympathetic so far.
Full light-throttle doesn't really fully describe the circumstances wherein a downshift delay seemingly occurs.
On FULL lift throttle followed quickly by a need to accelerate moderately or rapidly....and assuming a lower gear ratio at the onset:
The engine RPM will drop to idle as the engine/transaxle ECU commands an upshift.
Now suppose you quickly re-apply pressure to the gas pedal having been in the FULL lift-throttle "state" for just long enough for the upshift command to have been issued.
The engine being at idle results in a very low pumping rate of the fixed displacement ATF pump so once the currently in-process upshift is completed the "reserve" ATF pressure supply will have been exhausted.
So now the succeeding downshift command cannot be issued until enough time has expired for the ATF pump to have replenished ATF pressure, enough to fully and firmly seat the downshift clutches which are without doubt about to be asked to endure, sustain, a fairly high level of engine torque, once the DBW is allowed to open the throttle.
Obviously there are other sequences that might result in this same senario. Say cruising with a light, 1/8 gas pedal position, and an absolutely "normal" upshift has just begun. The DBW system drops the engine RPM to idle to more seemlessly and smoothly accomodate the upshift, but now you put your foot into it a large bit more.
Two shift sequences, an upshift followed quickly by a downshift, with the gas pedal lightly applied at "entry".
And keep in mind that with DBW the gas pedal position will not necessarily be indicative of the throttling opening. There is a bit of confusion about this for vehicles with CVT, Continuously Variable Transmissions, especially so with the wildly different, unique, CVT in many of the new hybrid drive vehicles.
With a CVT any position of the gas pedal that indicates a desire by the driver to accelerate might result in WOT engine operation. If the CVT can accomodate the "gear" ratios involved given the current roadspeed and engine RPM WOT will result in eliminating pumping losses due to throttle valve flow restrictions and thereby the most optimal FE. Keep in mind that WOT means climbing most rapidly to maximum engine RPM, not continuously operating there.
About the car: I did not pick it up because when I got there I saw that they dinged the front side panel above the wheel well. I was speechless. Dealership said they would fix it. I am just shaking my head in disbelief.
I was told that the replacement transmission was brand new - the dealer customer service rep. specifically mentioned that this was not a 'rebuild' or a 'refurb' unit.
He said that they reprogrammed the computer in the car and at least two people test drove it. He claimed that none of the problems I reported for the other tranny were evident in this one.
Though when I asked him what was different about this transmission, he said he did not know.
I thanked him (he really is a nice chap) but told him that several others had their trannys replaced and the problems returned.
He hoped that would not be the case here and the next time we meet would be under happier circumstances for me.
Meanwhile I bought a lottery ticket. If I win, watch out new car for me woohoo - and HA! I don't know what I'd get.
After approx a month of driving with the new TSB under a broad range of conditions, I have nothing but goodness to report. In driving the same interstate route, absolutely no downshifting (on two slight grades, the transmission will stay in 5th but torque converter unlocks).....all exactly as I would expect. Around town driving, no hesitations at all. The engine has more power.
I have upgraded my personal opinion of this 4cyl LE car from a "hold" (I previously rated it a "sell" if you lived in congested urban environments where quick acceleration might be typical).....to an unqualified "buy".
The manual says" the car will pass in a normal manner". This is dangerous to people who do not have a good learning lesson the first time.
In my case the v-6 still over accelerated at a dangerous rpm and speed.
ange
I cannot believe toyota ignores their problems and gets away with it. I thought the avalon was the only car with problems. The success of toyota allows them to take cost cutting measures to end up with a better bottom line.
Today I looked at a le model camry and noticed the tire wear has 260 value. The xle has a 420 tire wear value. These little lower cost items has me really rethinking.
ange
Very distressing to hear you have to "live with" a Toyota product. I'm a Toyota fan, and this is unacceptable. Should not be this big a problem anyway, this is not a totally new car, just a new body & tranny. How can they make loyal Toyota dealers "live with" their newest and best looking car??? Unacceptable IMO. :confuse:
Thanks again
Ron
EG056-06 ECM Calibration: Enhancement to Shifting Performance and Smoothness
They put a new 6speed tranmission in my car (and fixed the ding). I've been driving it for five days now and can say it is behaving well, but the weather had been nasty over the weeknd and I only managed to put about 30 miles on it so far, plus I've been driving like a grandpa. Perhaps I should put it through it's paces. As I recall my tranny problems surfaced after 100 miles the first time. (I'd have to look at my notes to be sure).
So far: no slipping in-and-out of gears. No flares. So the new setup seems to be behaving according to Toyota specs.
Now a question: It seems the car starts out in 2nd gear (not first). It feels like it is slipping the clutch until the speed is appropriate for 2nd gear. Those of you who drive stick-shifts know what I mean. Is this normal?
I would perfer the more direct thurst of the first gear. If starting in 2nd is the designed behavior for fuel economy reasons, I would rather give up a little FE and get back I little more snap when moving from stop. Maybe if I pressed forward with a little more punch from stop it might learn my preference.
I understand different brands/models drive differently; my Infiniti wants to dance right from the word go. I had to learn to modulate the starts in that car. My Dodge Caravan is very linear in response when starting from stop. (Both are automatics).
So can I teach the Camry to start from first gear?
I did ask for comment back from the dealership about the differences between the old and the new transmission. They don't seem to know. They said they would get back when they find out but that was 5 days ago.
Bruce
also, perhaps if it's really cold, maybe your ECM/TCM is designed to avoid using all the gearing to help get the engine warmed faster.
I hear your frustration and offer sympathy, alto' that probably doesn't help much. I do, however, have a thought or two on what some people like you may be experiencing and perhaps that will help to alleviate some concerns re two situations being talked about here. I speak specifically to the "searching" phenomeneon, and the "erratic" shift patterns that some are asking about.
I've read many reviews on quite a number of newer models--not only Toyota--where similar shift "irregularities" are being reported by reviewers. All are common observations having to do with CVT (Continually Variable Transmission) technology that is featured on many of today's automobiles. A typical reviewer comment goes like this: "The transmission takes a little getting used to because it seems to be searching for the right gear at various speeds. This is typical of the CVT technology where fuel burn is prioritised and engine rpm and gear selection are continually adapted to best economy. My (the reviewer's)driving style is best categorised as "aggressive" and that seems to make these observations more noticeable. People whose driving style is more passive probably won't notice them at all"
That said, then perhaps to some extent what is being seen is, as some are being told, a "normal" situation. It may also explain why folks like me aren't seeing a problem because our driving style isn't normally "aggressive".
Just another theory to add to all the others?
The temperatures have not been too cold about 45f~50f (7c~10c).
This morning, On my way to work, I moved off from every stop little more aggressively. I must say, it felt assured and 'in the right gear'. So now I am thinking maybe it is my relaxed driving style that allows 2nd gear starts.
Apart for that - all else is good tranny-wise.
---------------------------
In response to a previous post (not connected to this thread)re: red stains under door sills after it has been sitting in the rain or after I have hand washed the car. Red stains are starting to appear under the bottom of the doors (on the door sills)and you can see the stain flow out on to the outside. I was able to wash out the earlier stains with some 'elbow grease' but they have re-appeared. I'll post small pictures soon so you can see what I mean.
Hope this won't contine too long. Whatever gunk is coming out through the drains hopefully will wash out soon enough.