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Comments
just ask them if it might be the accelerator pedal assembly.
It didn't work guys. I've had my valve body replaced and transmission replaced. My car has spend 37 days at the dealership during 5 attempts to fix my RPM flare. I took Mesquite57's advise and went before an arbitrator and lost. I meet the criteria for Lemon Law as I interpret it.
I called several dealers about trading the car in, but stand to lose over $7,000! I'm going to get through the Holidays and regroup after the 1st.
That car is not safe whether it's new or 15 years old.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
if it were me, i'd have a word with the service manager and demand it be repaired right away and in the presence of the employee who claimed all Toyotas do the same thing. if it was a service writer or technician, the person should loose their job over this sort of thing. they sent you away in an unsafe vehicle.
if it was the service manager who told you it was normal, then i'd be looking for another dealership.
Bottom line - what you are experiencing is not normal, and should not be tolerated.
~alpha
My wife is having the same problem (and not just in driving), and she was diagnosed with a herniated disk. Surgery is one possible option, although we're hoping it won't be necessary.
As many of you may know, I have posted several times regarding the hesitation issue in the 07 Camry 2.4 VViT. Just to recap in case you have not, I have taken my car to the dealer several times to have this hesitation diagnosed, each time resulted in "unable to duplicate" and "the car is driving normal". Wow, that sounds identical to every other person's complaint I have heard or read about. (Hmnnn..... very strange, isn't it?) I have had the regional rep come out to look at it, and that's about all he did. He did not drive the car and basically blew me off.
Toyota would not acknowledge this problem in anyway, but, all the sudden there is a TSB for it. Until recently, and after the TSB release, I still could not get a straight answer from Toyota about this issue (hesitation) and whether or not the TSB was aimed at correcting it.
Moving to a recent phone call to Toyota Motor Sales, I finally had someone at Toyota lay it all out for me.
Yes, Toyota knows there is a hesitation problem, yes the TSB was issued in aim of rectifying it and no, they are not sure how or if they ever will fix it.
While I was thankful he was straight-forward about it, his admission made me even more upset about this situation. The reason is, Toyota knowingly sold me this car, and many more like it to others all over the US and Canada, with this hesitation issue in existence and has now taken the stance the nothing is wrong with their cars (publicly).
I have written the CEO, Mr. Yuki Funo. I would advise all having this same issue to do the same, though I must warn you, he will not likely read it or even see or hear about it. None-the-less, Toyota needs to hear from everyone who is having this problem. They can not ignore everyone forever. This will come back to bite them in the butt eventually, it is just a matter of time. Unfortunately, that does not help those of us who have been screwed already.
For those interested, Mr. Funo's address is:
Mr. Yuki Funo
Toyota Motor Sales
19001 SW AVE
Torrance, California 90501
And once again, if you have not done so and your Camry still has a hesitation issue, please fill a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. You may do so by one of the following methods:
• By Phone: 1-888-327-4236
• Via the Web: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
Thanks for listening to my rant. I hope we can get this issue resolved soon. It is stressing me and my family out ..
ask dealership2 if they are willing to try a few things on behalf of you and your family's safety.
you're suggestion to write the NHTSA is probably better than writing soley to Mr. Yuki Funo. unfortunately, you can't be sure the CEO of any corportation these days is going to personally receive your mail message and then if so, be in a position to do anything for a specific end-customer or population of brand loyal consumers, no matter how customer-centric or quality-focused their reputation.
however, sending a copy of the NHTSA communication you submit to the government to his office address is a good idea.
remember to take the high-road, even if you and other's like you are being treated poorly, that your intellegence, honesty, loyalty and safety is being disregarded by such a respected company and their dealership network.
Give it a little more time, maybe it will help.
Thanks.
A. Does not know how to fix it.
B. Does not care to fix it as it is not costing them money or tarnishing their image yet. (Statistical approach)
I have given Toyota every opportunity to rectify this situation in one way or another. What did that get me? The same thing it has gotten everyone else; a good’ole stone-walling by Toyota. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you are welcome to arbitrate the issue.
On a serious note, arbitration may be your only option depending on your state’s lemon law (if it has one). Of course you can just deal with it or trade out of the car. You will lose money with the latter option. Trust me, I just found that out the hard way.
Lastly, there are a few rumors of Class Action floating around based on the idea that Toyota sold these vehicles with the knowledge of the hesitation issue. However, I have not seen anything in writing as of yet. (i.e. Blogs, forums, articles, etc ..) Canada maybe?
As I stated before, I found out first hand that you will most likely lose money on your Camry if you trade it. But, I am much happier now without the stress of this whole ordeal. I do intend, however, to continue to research the issue when I have time.
Good luck. Sorry to hear you have become yet another “statistic” in Toyota’s eyes.
In Short, yes, I have many other dealers in the area. However, (I may be wrong assuming this) based on what I have seen in my research of cases around the nation and Canada, it would have made no difference. Even if I took it to another dealer and they did miraculously find the problem, there is no fix/resolution for the issue. It would be a waste of time and potentially addition stress.
As for the TSB, yes it was applied. It did not work.
As for the regional rep, I am not sure I feel he should be fired, however he should be at least reprimanded for the lack of professionalism (as should several others). However, I do not believe that could ever happen as I strongly feel the reps are pretty much told what to say/how to approach this increasingly sensitive issue.
In regard to the letter to the CEO, you are of the same mindset as that of my own. The CEO will realistically never see the letter(s), but it can not hurt anything and may eventually prompt Toyota to do something.
Moreover, consultation the NHTSA is indeed the strongest medium available at this time.
As for my family and I, safety is the utmost issue involved here. Therefore, I have opted to trade the car and take the hit in trade deficit. Ouch... Bitter sweet.....
I asked this not to provoke anyone, but out of knowledge that class action lawsuits are filed quite easily these days, often over minor issues, and of course attorneys love to target companies with deep pockets. Pockets don't get much deeper than Toyota's.
Meanwhile, Camry production is maxed out, auto reviewers and consumer satisfaction monitors continue to sing praises, etc.
BTW, the own a hybrid Camry that, fortunately, has a different transmission. Good luck to all.
good for them. i believe they have a properly operating vehicle. why should we doubt them?
anyway, in your position, if i felt i exhausted all avenues - i would take the fiscal hit also.
there is absolutely no amount of hesitation which is acceptable in any vehicle i drive or my wife drives, or that carry our most precious children. i wouldn't own it, rent it, or even give it away to someone i cared about.
it would have little to no value to me.
i *DO* suggest giving another dealership a shot; maybe there are some dealerships out there that will go the extra mile to see to it that the product they sell and service works properly, and if not, to take the issue up with the manufacturer to do right by the consumer.
me? i wouldn't consider my vehicle completely experimented with unless the following had been done by the dealership (not necessarily in this order): TSB applied, transmission valve body then transmission was replaced, the ECU/TCM was replaced, the throttle body assembly replaced, and last but definitely not least, the accelerator pedal assembly replaced.
practically, i know it is unrealistic to allow for all this experimentation even if they were willing to do it.
good luck to you.
p.s. if this wasn't a widespread issue or if there were no issue at all, then a self-respecting dealership and / or the manufacturer would just give you another vehicle to replace the defective one which they couldn't fix, right?
But, Toyota is doing far too much transmission work for this to be nothing more than that.
To date, though, I know of no car accidents that have been blamed on the problem. If/when that happens, the press will quickly spread the word. That auto reviwers and consumer rating groups haven't picked up on the problem suggests it isn't widespread.
Do you have a basis for that statement other than personal opinion?
How will it be written up? Just like any other safety-related auto defect has been written up in the past. The Ford Explorer/Firestone tire blowouts, "unintended" acceleration problem of Audis, and this one from just a few days ago:
"DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group is recalling 127,928 Chrysler Pacificas from the 2005-2006 model years. The crossover vehicles have fuel pump modules and powertrain control module software that may allow the engine to stall under certain conditions, causing a crash to occur without warning."
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=consumer&id=4774342
a vehicle that hesitates when making a left-hand turn: more than likely the person is going to be cited for crossing against oncomming traffic. the WHY isn't likely to be recorded.
a vehicle that hesitates when changing lanes, and someone is hit from behind? most likely written up as a vehicle following too closely from behind.
a vehicle failing to accelerate adequately to speed when making the highway on-ramp merge? more likely to be written up as vehicles merging with too large a speed difference.
i suspect very few if any hesitation related accidents would be written up with that sort of specificity and completeness such that it was searchable in some national database.
when was the last time you were in an accident? often the people are at a loss to accurately remember exactly what preceeded the event.
and if you're in the middle of the intersection, or at the side of the road with heavy traffic, you think the police officer is going to be looking for that sort of minucia / detail?
Recalls happen because people report problems. They report them to a police officer investigating an accident, who dutifully includes it in his report, they include it on claims forms filed with their insurance company, and then some file complaints with NHTSA.
Soon, if the problem isn't isolated, the numbers add up and people pay attention.
Here's a summary of defect petition submitted to NHTSA (all caps in original):
A DEFECT PETITION WAS RECEIVED 8/24/2006 BY THE OFFICE OF DEFECTS INVESTIGATION (ODI) REQUESTING AN INVESTIGATION OF MODEL YEAR (MY) 2002 - 2006 TOYOTA CAMRY AND CAMRY SOLARA VEHICLES FOR INCIDENTS RELATING TO VEHICLE SURGING. THE PETITIONER OWNS A MY 2006 CAMRY AND PREVIOUSLY OWNED A MY 2003 CAMRY. HE ALLEGES THAT BOTH VEHICLES EXHIBITED "ENGINE SURGING" WHICH HE DESCRIBED AS A SHORT DURATION (1 TO 2 SECOND) INCREASE IN ENGINE SPEED OCCURRING WHILE THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL IS NOT DEPRESSED. FOR THE MY 2006 VEHICLE, THE PETITIONER ESTIMATES 6 TO 8 SURGE INCIDENTS, OF VARYING MAGNITUDE, OCCURRED OVER THE COURSE OF 10,000 MILES AND NEARLY 7 MONTHS OF OWNERSHIP. ALTHOUGH THE PETITIONER REPORTS THAT THE BRAKE SYSTEM HAS ALWAYS BEEN EFFECTIVE AT CONTROLLING AND OVERCOMING THE ENGINE SURGE HE HAS CONCERN FOR CRASH REPORTS FILED WITH THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRANSPORTATION SAFETY ADMINISTRATION ALLEGING UNCONTROLLED SURGING TO A HIGH SPEED AND IN SOME CASES WITH THE BRAKES APPLIED. ODI WILL EVALUATE THE PETITION FOR A GRANT OR DENY DECISION.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/defectsummary.cfm?inv_id=11176- &type=VEHICLE&typenum=1&cmpt_id=294&prod_id=207851&make=TOYOTA&model=CAMRY SOLARA&model_yr=2006
I've noticed it, but it has never presented the over-blown remarks I have read here.
This is my own opinion as well. It is different and it may take some time to adjust to it. I've noticed it in our '04 Highlander but it's been minimal and eventually gone away.
Obviously there were some adjustments needed since Toyota has published several TSB's in order to improve the performance. I can understand the frustration but I've not been able to encounter any of the most serious complaints.
Regarding the possibility of crashes and whether the car is to blame for hesitating, the whole police/traffic court/insurance system is geared toward finding the driver at fault (by violating some traffic law), not the car. This has been true for decades, if not since the beginning of the auto age. Only in the most egregious cases is mechanical failure brought into the equation.
With regard to the left turn scenario across oncoming traffic, I'm reminded of a line from a driver's ed book years ago: "It's not a question of whether you can make it, but rather can you afford NOT to make it?"
I drove it once and noticed the annoying engine-braking thing, but since I would personally prefer a 6-speed stick I found myself popping it out of gear to neutral when I would take the foot off the gas. Just a habit about toying with the thing, I guess. Might get annoying over the long haul.
The other problems bother me a bit more. I need to remember that when my parents visit they will likely use this car. They need something predictable. This thread is going to have me looking at the Milan Premier and the Aura XR a little harder. I actually like the Aura but I can't stand the "no-haggle" nonsense. Not haggling is for wimps IMHO and if you don't wanna haggle you can just pay sticker on any car. Whattah concept. The Milan is cool save the crappy tranny and the lower mileage.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your woes. You are having an impact on potential customers. :shades:
(The next statement is not directed at anyone in particular, it just bugs me that some people seem to doubt the validity of this issue/complaint.)
Furthermore, if the issue was not severe (for some) why would people be trading in their new 07 Camrys already? Myself being one of them. I am not made of money, therefore I am certainly not going to trade in a car and lose money unless there is a damn good reason. My reason was safety.
One can speculate all day long as to why it does it, whether or not it is a problem, etc, etc, etc . The bottom line is this: if the vehicle hesitates at a critical moment, it can cost innocent people their lives. That is unacceptable and a shame on Toyota or any other auto maker who turns the blind eye until it becomes a negative impact on their profits.
you write:
the whole police/traffic court/insurance system is geared toward finding the driver at fault (by violating some traffic law), not the car.
yes - that's a good point. thanks for making it.
having been in a few accidents over the years, and having read the police report(s) following the description(s) / affidavits(s) i made, i hold by my assertion about what is typically recorded, and also what is presentable in court re: fault, and can do so without hesitation.
now, if the accident involved the unfortunate death or significant disability of an individual or individuals, then the level of investigation and description would be to a different standard and level of detail, but even then i assert this information would most likely be passed over, and further not communicated to relevant agencies for assimilation and dissemination.
Your comments bring back memories of when my 07 Camry used to hesitate while I owned it. I have since traded my 07 4cyl LE today for an 05 Camry SE V6 with absolutely no hesitation. I have never owned a vehicle where I had to constantly ponder over whether or not it was going to hesitate. Having to worry about this while driving in my opinion was just not worth the hassle. Even after having the TSB done to update the shift points, I did not notice a difference. So, I did what I felt I had to do and now I'm much happier minus losing some money. Another thing I did not like with my 07 Camry was the engine braking technology. This was the first vehicle I've owned that has been designed this way and personally, I do not care for it because it always seems like the car is downshifting when taking your foot off the gas which constantly bothers me. To those who are experiencing these hesitation issues, I really hope Toyota gets a handle on this and resolves these problems. I guess the only thing one can do is sell, trade out, or wait for Toyota to push out a permanent fix.
In day to day regular driving most of it seems well. No engine flare and no hard transmission engagement. Reverse engages when I need it to engage. Have not pushed the car to test the hesitation issue. As soon as the snow clears in a couple of days, I'll try it. So basically it drives very well for the most part.
Verdict: 75 percent satisfaction.
25 percent dis-satisfaction due to engine-braking, braking by itself and slipping tranny in what seems to be 1st gear.
The engine braking in this Camry is NOT something I'll get used to. It feels very unnatural and unholy. And it works inconsistently. About 70% of the time when I take foot of accelerator around town and car drops speed like it was dragging a boat anchor. Then usually in about 5 to 10 seconds it decides to ditch anchor and you feel like you were squirted forwarded out of a tube. The next block I accelerate to the same previous speed and lift foot of the gas and the car decides to glide till the cows come home.
I can discern no pattern to this behavior as to when it will and when it won’t, except it does it more often than not.
Secondly, when I apply brakes and then lift foot off the brake pedal - it continues to brake by it's self for a few more seconds and then disengages the braking, again creating that squirting or shooting forward feeling that a few members have noted.
Some Honda drivers (in this forum) and at my work have said that their automatic Accords and Civics also have engine braking. I have not driven those models therefore I cannot compare my Camry’s braking profile to those cars. However, the Camry behavior feels unnatural and jerky in engaging and letting go.
Finally, when first moving out, I can tell the transmission still slips (engine revs and stays at 1500 rpm) until it shifts up and then all seems well.
So, happy with new transmission? Mostly. But the 25% dissatisfaction with this braking and slipping is like a burr under the saddle. It mentally chafes me every time I get into the car.
Toyota - you really still need to work on this area.
Any buyers in this forum? I paid $US29.6K
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06214/710304-185.stm
you should ask to drive their vehicles. perhaps something is not completely right with their reprogramming effort.
our honda accord (4spd AT) and honda odyssey (5spd AT) downshift and have grade-logic but my wife and i feel it is all done quite competently and naturally - us both comming from previous decades of ownership and operation of exclusively manual transmission vehicles.
every once in a while, there appears to be a less than subtle downshift, but it is quite rare.
After reading the posts...I think the "Big" concerns are TSB, breaking, and hesitation.
#1 what is TSB?
#2 Are there any other big concerns? Not concerned about radio or glove box mess.
#3 Are there fixes for the above problems?
#4 SHould I buy??
Should you buy? I'd suggest you ask owners of these cars that you will surely see everyday. My opinion is a definate yes, but others here will likely disagree.
~alpha
~alpha