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Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

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Comments

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    does anyone know why does the Discovery depreciate so much...?

    I imagine a good chunk of it is due to the high markup on the vehicle which basically evaporates the second you drive it off the lot.

    tidester
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  • nanuqnanuq Member Posts: 765
    ...and is EXACTLY why you should buy one that's 9 months old, with plenty of warranty left. Any initial build quirks will be sorted by then and it won't even be completely broken in yet.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    That steep depreciation also makes them affordable to us common folk. :-)
  • buroskyburosky Member Posts: 90
    I thought it's more because of the demand. If there is as much people looking for a used BMW, Lexus or Benz as there is looking for a Discovery, I don't think the depreciation would be any different. I think Rovers are just not as popular for one reason or another. Better for us since there would be less on the road. It sort of preserves the prestige of owning one.
  • denver8denver8 Member Posts: 42
    Look at the Defenders, low supply;and they cost as much now for used ones as the original sticker price.=high demand... In 1999 I bought a 1995 Defender with 56,000 miles and paid more than the original sticker price. Best money I ever spent. Maybe the depreication on the Discoverys has to do with the large number of leased vehicles coming on the market.

    And for a good depreciation story... In 1996 I bought a 1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT V-R4, Twin turbos all the good stuff. The car had an original sticker price of around $45,000, the guy I bought the car from had leased it for 3 years so I basically bought out his lease. Paid $19,000. That is some quick depreciation of $26,000 in 3 years. After a year when my young life crisis was over I could hardly give the car away.
  • polo2928bpolo2928b Member Posts: 21
    YPU GUYS COULD BE RIGHT, SINCE I HAVE NOW NARROWED MY SELECTION TO THE X-5 and DISCOVERY, I JUST NEED TO TEST DRIVE IT AND FIND OUT WHICH TO GET, ALTHOUGH I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET THE 03 X-5 WITH LEATHER AND AUTOMATIC STEP-TRASMISSION FOR 41500.00 INCLUDING ALL THE ADD ONS, STILL ABOUT 1000.00 MORE THAN THE DISCO WHICH HAS MORE CARGO AND MORE TOWING. SOME ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
  • polo2928bpolo2928b Member Posts: 21
    ARE XENON LIGHTS OFFERED IN THE SE MODEL,
    WHY IS THERE A 7.2 CONSUMER RATING IN THIS VEHICLE, WHEN IT SEEMS TO BE A GOOD ONE?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Please don't shout. ALL CAPS is hard to read.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    No xenons on any model. They're all halogens. Xenons only come on the '03 Range Rover.
  • mrtoad3mrtoad3 Member Posts: 68
    I have a 2001 Discovery II with 18" rims and 255/55 R18 all-terrains. I would like to use some winter weather tires and rims...ie 16" steel wheels with 255/65 R16 Nokians. Will this affect the height of the vehicle? My concern is the already tight tolerances with the garage opening I have. I fitted a roof rack that gives 1/4" clearance now and am concerned with overall height with the new tire/rim combo. Any insight would be helpful as winter is approaching in the Sierras. Thanks for all the great posts.
  • nanuqnanuq Member Posts: 765
    The 255/65x16 should be the same height as stock. Take a look at the Discoweb for all the sizes and fitments... you'll have to pursue the "tech" section and then the "tires/wheels" part.


    Good luck! Nokians are GREAT winter tires!


    http://www.discoweb.org/

  • waskowasko Member Posts: 103
    Polo:

    My wife drives and X-5 and I drive a 2001 DII. I definitely like both vehicles. Would I own an X5 as my own vehicle? Definitely! But will I ever give up my Rover? Absolutely not :)

    Each vehicle has their pros and cons:

    The X5 has superior road handling skills, lots of little BMW extras (the red light illumination in all the right places at night), superb engineering, and the most solid feeling steering wheel/turning radius response of any SUV I've ever driven, those great Xenon bulbs, and plenty of room for our lifestyle.

    Things I dislike about the X5: Electronics in weird places (like under/around the spare tire cover in back cargo area), AWD not= 4WD and it's not bad in the snow, but it's definitely not as capable as my Disco! Cheap dashboard buttons and cupholder spring tensioners (my wife lost 4 dashboard buttons and 2 of the cup spring tensioners so far in the 1st year). Plus, if you plan on owning this (buying instead of leasing), you'd be hard pressed to do ANY maintenance on it - the engine looks like something that would belong on the Battleship Enterprise. Oh, and snooty-tooty dealership people - I always feel out of place when I take her vehicle in for service. (i.e. I don't consider myself one of the 'beautiful people' that you typically see driving beemers).

    As for the DII - very commanding view, trucklike ruggedness, over-engineered for complete durability, superior in the snow/mud/offroad conditions, more cargo space, better towing capacity, etc. Also, pretty straightforward to do a lot of your own maintenance on, should you chose to do so after the warranty expires. And the dealership experience in both Detroit and Seattle has been better than any other brand/marque in the world - no snooties there, just plain old good people in both sales and service depts!

    So, if you're looking for an SUV that will only go offroad 1-2x a year and has superior road handling qualities, I'd be hard pressed not to recommend the X5.

    If you like your SUV to be more SUV and plan on riding trails, towing, being in a lot of mud or snow, need more cargo capacity, and generally like an SUV that behaves more like a truck, I'd be hard pressed not to recommend the DII.

    Glad to discuss offline if you'd like more details.

    Thx, wasko
  • waskowasko Member Posts: 103
    Ok, now that I've posted some goodness about Discos to polo, it's time to vent a bit...

    I've blown 2 tires in less than a month offroading. The first was totally my fault, hitting a patch of paved road on a dirt road at speed (35mph). Funny thing though is that my buddy has a honking large early 80's oldsmobile and we hit the same slab the next weekend at 50 - NO TIRE DAMAGE on his old boat!

    Then this past weekend I'm on a logging road that is very muddy - near the tops of the fender-wells. I'm going through in 4L with a fair amount of speed (7-10mph) to keep forward momentum and I hit (I think) a shard of stone in the muck. Tire goes flat.

    I haven't had a chance to put air in this flat and wet it down to see where it is leaking yet, but I didn't see sidewall damage. That would initially seem to indicate that something penetrated the main tire surface.

    Has anyone else had any problems like this with the tires being really frail? I'm thinking about replacing the whole lot.

    As an FYI, I've only had 1 other flat tire in my life on all the vehicles I've owned before these 2 flats in the past month on the DII. That seems to add insult to injury.
    Thx, wasko
  • nanuqnanuq Member Posts: 765
    I had some trouble with the stock tires (whoops, "tyres") on my '96. When they died I replaced them with a tall set of Nokian Hakka LT10s. I'd never go back. I have about an inch of tread depth, something like 10 plies in the tire carcass, and these things DO NOT deflect off rocks and roots when I'm wheeling. They call for 85psi and I run them at 50psi front and rear. They're great in deep snow, great on COLD snow... incredible grip... and chew well in deep snot. Last winter I was out regularly camping off "roads" where I was pushing snow with the bumper and headlights and I only buried her when I knew it was going to happen (like when I drove off the side of the "road" to park at night). I've hit some hard things awfully hard and never flatted one yet.

    Cheers!
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Bridgestones just came out with a new all-terrain (AND all-season) tire, called Dueler A/T REVO. It is relatively cheap, but has the latest technology. It does not come in 18" yet. However, for those of you with 16", they do come in 255/70/16 (which is slightly taller than what you have now). BTW, i do not work for Bridgestones. However, my brother has a '01 Disco and he may get this. I have a 4Runner 4x4 with these tires...looks very unique!


    Pics of my tires on 4Runner:

    http://www.gocrvclub.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=870

  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    That is a good tire. Yokohamas a very good too.
  • 01r101r1 Member Posts: 280
    I'm looking at some used 99 & 00 DII's, most of the on-line ads list the VIN, does anyone know of an on-line resource to decode this? I would like to get the build date out and presence of ACE or SLS.

    -Thanks!
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    There is nothing in the VIN that specifies whether a vehicle has ACE or not. I can find build date and whether it has Ace if you provide the last 8 digits of the VIN number.
  • 01r101r1 Member Posts: 280
    How about:
    YA265721
    XA225868

    Thanks for the help!
  • henryrollinshenryrollins Member Posts: 1
    Hi I was wondering what you guys think I should pay for either a 2001 or 2002 disco II Se w/ black and beige interior? I was also wondering what you guys think about the ACE system?

    Thank You
  • photodiscophotodisco Member Posts: 17
    The answer to the previous post is Definetely get the ACE if you can. I have a 2001 with Ace and my uncle has a 2000 with out and the difference in handling and overall control is big.
    Now I have a question of my own. I had to give up my DII to my pregnant wife to drive (one of the advantages of getting married was to give up my love of my life to her, talk about sacrifice) and i was following her last night and noticed that the rear of my discovery seemed like it was slightly leaning to the right. It was as if she was a little bit crooked. She only has 12000 miles on her and never had a problem and i don't feel the tilt from the inside but asked several people if they saw what i saw and they sure enough said the same thing that she was tilted. I put her in my garage concrete and measured her from the ground to the top of the bumper on both sides and the left side is 1/2" higher. Does any one know what would cause this? I have been off road but only lightly and not nearly to her limit. Is this a serious problem or a quick fix? If anyone has info i would appreciate it.

    thanks.
  • waskowasko Member Posts: 103
    Mr Whipple,

    Do you have experience with this tire, or are you going off of what you've heard? I'm looking to reduce the sidewall surface area if at all possible and want to know if the Yokahamas will be lower profile.

    Nanuq, I haven't seen any Nokians available in the 18" size yet - sounds like my kinda tire :)

    Quick update - I pumped the tire full of air today (it's sitting on the back door spare mount) and doused it with water. Sure enough, it IS sidewall (I initially suspected a gash between the treads). If you've got the Goodyears on your rig, go about 1 thumb's length above the 'A' in Goodyear - right where sidewall meets tread. That is where the damage happened. Looks like a pretty small hole too - not the big gash I was suspecting.

    I'll call around on the Yokahamas and see if I can get a better price. If I like them, I'll put one on the spare, then once I blow another Goodyear (at this point, I'm convinced that it's just a matter of time), I'll replace tires in pairs until I'm running on 4 new tires and a new spare.

    Thanks all for the suggestions - I fully intend to be heading into more mud and mountains in the future and may as well get it right with a better set of rubbers :)

    Thx, wasko
  • cardiacsurg2bcardiacsurg2b Member Posts: 2
    Hey guys,

    I just started my surgical residency, and my parents "gave me $22,500 to go buy a car with". After researching as best as I could, I chose a 2000 Disco with about 40k miles. I have already purchased the vehicle, but I still have several issues that are giving me ulcers...

    1) I hear horrible stories about build quality - was this addressed when the Series II was "redesigned" by BMW? ie, oil leaks you just have to "live with"? any other issues you guys know about - things consistently falling apart after so many years or miles?

    2) Tincup47 or anyone else have the elusive code to make sense of the VIN as related to option packages?

    3) Perform routine checks/repairs at the dealer only or do you guys use other mechanics?

    4) How important is fitting the vehicle with brush bars, underside plates, etc when you take her off-road? It's not like there are any mountains near Kansas City, but the Ozarks have a few spots that would make for fun off-roading.

    5) I know BMW and Porsche have "Clubs" - how about Rover owners? esp. in the KC area?

    Thanks!

    --Pepsi
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    I have had experience with the Yokohama Super Digger V's and Geolander AT+ tires. Both are great tires. They are both all-terrains, so the sidewalls are built stronger. The V's are hard to find in many sizes. The Geo line is newer.

    I do know the Pirelli ST comes in a direct fit for the 16" & 18" discovery rims. I have known of someone with a good experience wih this tire. Much improved (ride & handling) over the stock Goodyears and cheaper than the Michelins.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    There are no codes in the VIN that specify options. You have to have someone with access to LRNA's computer to check options by the vehicle's VIN. I can do this as can any Land Rover dealer.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Vin XA225868 was built on 6/11/99 and does not have ACE, but it does have Self leveling suspension in the rear. All 7 seat Discovery Series II before 2002 have SLS. In 2002 they made SLS and 7 seats independent. VIN YA265721 has ACE and was built on 2/01/00. That is a Canadian vehicle though, brought into the US by a contracted Importer for BMW financial.
  • nanuqnanuq Member Posts: 765
    The Nokians are great, but you'll want to find them in 16" and get the steel NATO wheels (if possible for the DII). That maintains your sidewall height and you won't get flatted as often.
  • 01r101r1 Member Posts: 280
    Thanks for the info on these two!
  • cardiacsurg2bcardiacsurg2b Member Posts: 2
    Hmm,

    I can't seem to post messages. Hope this goes through. Tincup, can you get the specific info on this VIN# (ie, options) - SALTY1543YA258440. Thanks.

    --Pepsi
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    We had some server problems earlier in the day - sorry about that!

    Steve
    Host
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  • stopgostopgo Member Posts: 16
    I go tomorrow to pick her up! White with the Beige leather, pretty much standard HSE with no major upgrades.
  • 26psiboost26psiboost Member Posts: 15
    I don't think there is a dealer in Macon and as a matter of fact I remember dad telling out of state dealers he lived in Macon when he called and checked prices on new models. Macon was a grey area between Savannah and Atlanta's territory. Birmingham has always dealt very well over the years and their service is excellent. He has used Knoxville a few times for service and they did a great job.

    I believe the re-sale problem was initially due to incentives Ford put on these right after they acquired Rover. They have gone away somewhat, but you notice the other higher end vehicles with better re-sale don't have 3.9 apr. Also there is an agressive wholesaler in the Atlanta area who it appears every dealer seems to call when you try to trade a Rover. People are apparently stupid enough to take these prices, which in return bring down the average. Without a doubt the best deal is always on a 2 year-old Rover.

    Speaking with dad during our 1200 mile round trip to Michigan this weekend in the Rover, he stated Tire Rack consistently has the best deals on tires. He is getting 60K on tires and brakes. Windshields tend to make it about 50K before they swallow a rock.
  • polo2928bpolo2928b Member Posts: 21
    What is the customer service like with Land Rover dealers? What about loaners?
  • 26psiboost26psiboost Member Posts: 15
    With the exception of one of the Atlanta dealers assuming dad was the typical yuppie and lacking mechanical knowledge, he has been very pleased with aforementioned dealers. He caught the dealer feeding him a line and when dad called his bluff and explained how it was impossible that the Rover needed that type of repair, the estimate magically went from $1600 down to $600. This could happen anywhere though. Dad may forgive and but he never forgets.
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    polo2928b

    It depends on the dealer unfortunately.
  • nanuqnanuq Member Posts: 765
    I bought my Disco from a used car lot with 9 months on the clock and plenty of warranty left (the perfect combination). It had a couple minor weirdnesses and I called the Rover dealer. They said it was all covered so they made an appt. for me to drop it off. Upon arrival they gave me a spanking new Disco as a loaner, no questions asked.

    A couple days later they had my truck ready, and I brought back the loaner... no charge. My truck was perfect, and they'd washed it and detailed the interior.

    Over the next 2 years I fought a couple of bad problems with them, and those guys went the distance with me. Granted the service manager developed a tic whenever he saw me coming, but I used my warranty till it BLED. They fixed everything I found wrong, and added a lot of the TSB items gratis... probably to prevent me coming back! (grin).

    Every time I went back to pick up my Disco I'd bring them loaves of homebaked bread or cinnamon rolls, even a couple 6packs of brown ale. We got my last fault corrected two days after my warranty expired, and this Rover has now been the most error-free and reliable vehicle I have ever owned... including 13 Hondas.

    HATS OFF to the gentlemen at Land Rover Anchorage! Wallace, Kent and Lyle... this one's for you. *pop* fsssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
  • calvinxcalvinx Member Posts: 4
    Nanuq,
    I know you were responding to Willow with your suggestions for Disco names but you were able to fill the void that I have concerning a name for my white '01 DII which I've now owned for 7 mos... "Panik" (Daughter) is great!!! Since I don't have a daughter (two boys instead - don't want to roll those dice any more) but have always wanted one "Panik" has to be my surrogate daughter. I was torn between "Qanikcaq" (snow) but "Panik" also serves as a reminder of my reaction to the three instances of undeserved damage (parking lots) that she has sustained.
  • nanuqnanuq Member Posts: 765
    Thanks! There's another, "Kannik" sounds like "daughter", but it means "snowflake" in Yupi'q. Or how about "Apun" for "snow" in Inpuiaq, or "Anigu"? Same thing...

    :) I call my daughter "Kannik" and she loves it.

    Una inuuq aaniqtuq! -Bob
  • chipawachipawa Member Posts: 4
    Thanks in advance, in what I am anticipating as the correct or best answers to my questions. I held off purchasing an 03'DII SE, last week due to unsatisfactory information (and service) from one of our local dealers. My questions. I mainly drive on-road (actually all the time) that will probably change!
    Is ACE worth the effort,and also does it cause excess tire-wear? Is SLS worth it, in a non-7 set-up? I have found a dealer that will discount the HSE set-up down to almost what the other dealer was going to charge me for the SE, so I think I will get SLS by default. Is the audio-upgrade worth-it as well. Any feedback would be great, sorry for the long post.

    You folks are great, this is the best board going!!
  • shap1shap1 Member Posts: 77
    Looking into an '03 Discovery. Dealer told us the HSE is not available with rear seat option. I'm fine with the SE7, but the husband (who will be driving it) likes the added luxe of the HSE. Can anyone confirm??
  • bobf8bobf8 Member Posts: 5
    Hi Everyone,
    This past weekend I had a chance to test drive the new 03 Discovery. It was without question, the most impressive test drive I've ever done! I am very interested in purchasing a SE or HSE. My concern is with reliability and safety. So I'd like to put out several questions.
    1) Those of you who have owned previous versions, from what I have seen on this board, do indeed have reliability issues. I'd like to hear from you, those that have had good experiences and those that have had bad experiences. Do the folks that post the bad or good things represent the "mainstream" of Discovery owners?
    2) Safety. Does anyone have a good feel for why the 03 did not include side and head air bags? When I spoke to the sales person, the response I got, was Land Rover did not feel they were necessary, due to the construction of the "passenger cage". Which to be sounds like a BS line.
    Before spending over 40K for a SUV I want to be sure of what I'm getting, and my expectation is that reliability and safety are there!
    Any information would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Do the folks that post the bad or good things represent the "mainstream" of Discovery owners?

    Generally, those with complaint about any vehicle tend to be more vocal about their misfortune than satisfied customers are about their good fortune.

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • 26psiboost26psiboost Member Posts: 15
    Dad t-boned a Cherokee with his 99 just behind the driver's door(her fault) at an estimated collision speed of 30 mph and it destroyed (totaled) the Cherokee. The estimate on the Rover was $2000 and we repaired it like new ourselves with only having to purchase a grill and headlight. We repaired the slight ripple in the hood and "saved" the headlight washer with adhesive.

    I personally rear-ended a new 3 series with the 96 when it was new and it did about $7000 to the BMW and it bent the brush bar on the Rover almost back to the hood and took out a headlight. We tied the Rover down on a frame machine and it took the better part of 5 tons of power to pull the bar out to where it belonged. We then replaced the headlight and it was as good as new!

    These things are way over-engineered and they have the history to prove it. Climb under a Rover then climb under a Sequioa. There is no comparison. If you compare a 95 to an 02 or 03 these Rovers have evolved light years in creature comfort.

    The problem with the 03 is they already have 4.9% on them, which is horrible one month into the new model on a low volume vehicle. Resale will stink, so find a slightly used one in 6 months. Also, just as when they put Bosch electronics in the 4.6's years ago(Bosch equipped are much more desired), this 4.6 motor change just hurt the resale of the 4.0 series II's. If you don't believe me just wait 3-6 months. Then again, resale stinks on everything right now especially if 0% is available on a new model.
  • nanuqnanuq Member Posts: 765
    As far as "stout" goes, last winter I was backing into a parking place and mistook the distance to a big piece of well casing sticking out of the ground. Full of concrete. I backed into it solidly, felt a deep THUNK, and thought "oh no..." I went back to look, and I had broken the casing off at the ground, and it only took a slight chip of black paint off my bumper.

    Later the same winter, I was rear-ended at a stop light by a lady in a Camry. I watched her slide right into me, cringing as she came. After the hit, I went back and she was very apologetic... and her car was WASTED. Parts all over the road. Again, it took a tiny chip of paint off my stock bumper. It didn't even crack the layers of dirt beneath, on the bumper supports.
  • rkoeslerrkoesler Member Posts: 62
    Well, I finally took the plunge and decided to modify my 00 DII (with 30,150 trouble-free miles I might add) for better off-roading. I got my dealer to order and install (for a 15% discount on parts and $50/hr for labor) OME springs & shocks plus a TJM winch bumper and Ramsey REP 9000 winch. Talk about an improvement. My truck is now 2.5 inches taller and rides like a truck should. I also had my 30K mile service done. The dealer also installed all new rotors and pads on my truck as a courtesy due to a reported "squealing brake" problem - even though my brakes were just fine with about 40% life left on the original pads! WHAT A GREAT VEHICLE AND DEALERSHIP EXPERIENCE!!!

    While my truck was at the dealer, I got to drive a new '03 DII SE for 4 days - what a dramatic improvement in ride, noise, handling, steering, braking, power, speed, etc. over the earlier models!! Hard to believe it's the same vehicle. Hope you all have a pleasant experience just like me !!
  • stopgostopgo Member Posts: 16
    Anyone out there recently purchase a 2003 Discovery with the Harman Kardon audio/navigation system installed? Reason I am asking is I just wanted to compare what, if any, Instruction Manuals, and accessories were provided by Land Rover for this system.

    I have found the manual provided by Land Rover to be somewhat inadequate as compared to the actual manual that the Harman Kardon system comes with were you to buy it from a local retailer. Also, there is supposed to be a "storage box" for the detachable faceplate that Land Rover did not supply and states that they do not supply.

    All in all, this is a complex system that has been trivially documented by Land Rover and the personell at the dealership are not very familiar with it as it is a new option in the vehicles this year.

    Any help is greatly appreciated.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Did your Discovery's owners wallet contain the 75 page Audio and Navigation manual? There are 2 different Owner's wallets for these vehicles, one is for vehicles with the Becker Navigation unit/Harmon Kardon Audio system and one for the SE and S models. Part number for the correct wallet for your vehicle is LRN2003DSCWNAV.
  • lupin10lupin10 Member Posts: 10
    Okay, here's the deal...
    I am infatuated with the Disco, and now need to decide which to buy. I'd like to be able to spend under $35K for an SE (can't get enough of the dual sunroofs), but don't know if thats possible. Should I consider getting and S and having a contractor install the sunroofs for less than the factory price tag of $1500? Or should I just look into a used 2000-02 with the sunroofs already installed (which would put my price tag under the $35K mark)?
    I really love the new look for the 2003, and know that I would kick myself a year later for not sucking it up and spending the extra cash.
  • stopgostopgo Member Posts: 16
    Well, I just finished going through the exact same process you are in; 2003 SE/HSE, or Used???

    I decided to just go ahead and buy a new one for a couple of reasons. First, I have not personally owned a new vehicle in over 10 years. While there are savings to be had in buying used, I just felt (and always have) that buying new ensures that I know how the vehicle has been broken in, maintained, serviced, and I am aware of any accidents big or small. To me that has always been worth the extra $$.

    Second, as far as debating a 2000-2002 model year Disco, the 03's have the new engine, brakes, noise dampening, and suspension. So for me, these are things I was interested in seeing improved for the new year and they were delivered.

    Of course, these were my arguements in the debate and everyone is different, also finances are different too for everyone. Guess all you can do is spend what you are comfortable with.

    I ended up with a 2003 Discovery HSE and I couldn't be happier!

    Good luck with your decision.
  • mrwhipplemrwhipple Member Posts: 378
    You might be happier with the '03 in the long run. Better power, braking and improved handling and ride. Would you want to give up all that for a sunroof? If you have the sunroofs put in later, they will more than likely be more reliable anyway. They stock ones do tend to have problems (leaks and electrical). A sunroof contractor specializes in what he does. Will probably offer a better warranty on the sunroofs too.
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