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Cars You Hate/Cars You Would Kill

2

Comments

  • prosaprosa Member Posts: 280
    At least the Element caters to a very specific group of people (surfers).. but at least it does cater to SOMEBODY.

    Honda may be marketing the Element to trendy Generation Y surfer dude/dudette types, but in fact it's quite popular among senior citizens. Its seating height and wide-opening doors make it easy for people with limited mobility to get in and out of the vehicle.
    I believe the xB is also popular with seniors, for the same reason.
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    This is off topic for a second but I wish I could find someone to bet me money on the fact that GM will screw up a good thing with the Astra. The Ion has both a four door sedan and technically 3 door sedan/coupe . I am counting the small suicide door behind the driver on the coupe. Opel has a 2 door hatchback and a 4 door hatchback. Now we can call them that or a 3 door or 5 door. I hope we get both. I have this ominous feeling that U.S. Management is going to try to delete features and change tail lights and headlights ect... Some people have said they doubt that but look at GM's past Americanization of European products.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    I agree. From more recent news, and pictures, if they are true, we will see 5 door versions, but not the 3 door versions, of Opels on Saturn lots. I agree, why not have both?
    I know a lot of people who are interested in the 3 door versions, but if the 5 door versions get here, and look like "me-too's"(like other 5 door "wagons", and 5 doors suvs, for the Vue replacement/Antara)almost no one(I know, who also is interested in the Saturn/Opel cars) is going to even bother going to the lots.

    Let's just hope they decide to Not mess them up!
    take care/not offense.
  • marikamarika Member Posts: 39
    >Are you implying general public should only buy Honda and Toyota?

    No. I think that all cars intended for the general public should have efficiency as one of the highest priorities. It hasn't been a priority for any of the domestics.

    GM could bring us that cute little Opel Corsa as a rebadged Saturn. I could go for something like that.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    GM could bring us that cute little Opel Corsa as a rebadged Saturn. I could go for something like that.

    Same here. Put the 1.7 turbodiesel in this and I would actually go take a look at it, which is more than I can say for anything GM offers to the US market now.

    Cars could also stand to lose about 500 pounds across the board, but there's no way around that short of building your own tube-frame kit car.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It hasn't been a priority for any of the domestics.

    Are you implying fuel economy is a priority for the Japanese? You should compare the 2006 Camry and the 2007 Camry 4 Cylinder cars. The 2006 is larger and gets better mileage both rated and according to owners. Only one person has posted his mileage on the 2007 Camry and it is 19.5 MPG. Pretty shabby for a car that is EPA rated 27 MPG. the average for those posting on the 2006 Camry are averaging 27.2 just below the EPA rated 28 MPG. Notice the smaller 2007 Camry gets a lower rating. Actually the 2006 has a better emissions rating also. All that and the 2007 is not as attractive as the 2006 Camry. What's going on Toyota?

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    how the 2007 Camry ended up having less interior and trunk space than the 2006 did. Isn't the 2007 actually a bit bigger on the outside? This sounds like shades of the 70's to me!
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    The 2007 has only fractionally less total interior space than the 2006, and I think this is because the roof (overall height) is a little lower (3/4 in). The trunk however did shrink from around 16.5 cu. ft. to 15.0 cu. ft. (14.5 cu. ft. for the SE and XLE). Still large by midsize car standards.

    Overall length is essentially unchanged, but wheelbase has increased by 2 inches.

    I've been following the gas mileage board, and the numbers for the '07 are all over the map. The same person that reported 19 mpg ("mostly city" only) said her husband got 32.5 mpg on a highway trip. She also said, "I DO sit at stupid red-lights in this town a LONG time."

    Since I have an '04 4-cyl. 4-speed auto and an '05 4-cyl. 5-speed auto, here are the EPA ratings:

    2004: 23/32 (I get 23 to 35-38).
    2005 (& '06): 24/34 (I get 21 to about 32).
    2007: 24/33

    Emissions: no change between 2004-07 for all 4-cylinder models (the biggest sellers by far), according to the EPA link.

    Styling: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
  • marikamarika Member Posts: 39
    No, it has not escaped my attention that they (Toyota, Honda) are going backwards with many models.I'm not very happy about that. I would expect a continual, gradual increase in efficiency across the board for all models with each successive model year. We don't get that. But at least they offer a few choices in the tolerable range, which is more than what GM, Ford, and Chrysler have done.

    I don't think Yaris has anything over Echo in the efficiency department. The new Civics are worse than the old ones, and the Fit's mpgs are nothing to write home about.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    Yeah, I looked up the specs for the 2006 and 2007 Camry, and it looks like the '07 is actually up a bit in legroom and shoulder room, both front and rear. But headroom is down a bit, enough to offset the gain made by the increases in the other dimensions.

    To me the '07 actually did feel bigger than the '02-06, probably because I noticed the slight increases in shoulder/legroom, but the decrease in headroom wasn't enough to bother me. Also, where they measure headroom isn't necessarily where you sit. I remember the '00+ Taurus had something like 40.6 inches of headroom in the back seat. That's like 2.8 more than the '07 Camry! Yet in the back seat I have to slouch over, because otherwise the curvature of the sides of the car put the ceiling right into my head! I have no such problem with the Camry though.

    The EPA also rounds to the nearest foot, I found out. For instance, I remember their interior rating for my '00 Intrepid was 104 cubic feet, while the '00 Impala and Taurus were 105. However, according to the Dodge website, the Intrepid was actually 104.4 and the Impala was 104.6. I forget what the Taurus was, but no doubt its figure was inflated by that silly rear headroom measurement.

    Still, nobody's going to notice a difference of a cubic foot, let alone 1/5 of a cubic foot! What they're going to notice is if their shoulder rubs against the door or their knee hits the steering wheel when they go for the brake. Or if their leg cramps up because of an awkward seating position, or their head brushes the ceiling, etc.

    I found out years ago that if you multiply front headroom X front legroom X front shoulder room, and then do the same for the rear measurements, add them together, and then divide the total by 1728 (the number of cubic inches in a cubic foot) it gives you a number very close to those published interior volumes.

    plugging in the numbers for the Camry, I got 101.9 cubic feet for the '06 and 101.8 for the '07.

    And since they round off trunk volumes as well, that 17 for the '06 and 15 for the '07 could actually be 16.5 and 15.4, a difference of only 1.1 cubic feet. Or it could have been 17.4 and 14.5, a difference of 2.9.

    Rounding off can do funny things, sometimes.

    BTW, why do the SE and XLE lose half a foot of trunk space over the other models? Is there a CD changer or subwoofer in the trunk or something similar?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Thanks for the follow-up. Looks like your spending more time than I am away from working (unless of course you're off today). ;)

    Regarding your last question, the SE has a cross brace to stiffen up the car, and the XLE has reclining seats like those on the current Avalon. In neither model do the seats fold down (unlike the CE, LE, and Hybrid).
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I don't think Yaris has anything over Echo in the efficiency department. The new Civics are worse than the old ones, and the Fit's mpgs are nothing to write home about.

    It would help if they'd quit making cars bigger and heavier all the time. You could probably get 50 mpg out of the Yaris engine if you put it in an AE86. Meeting US bumper and crash standards adds 2-300 pounds to a car all by itself, and tuning engines for low emissions also hurts the mileage.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I wish I could find someone to bet me money on the fact that GM will screw up a good thing with the Astra.

    I think they already screwed it up with the name. Are they actually going to use that tired old name that was the rebadged Vega? What did the marketing department get paid for that decision?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,681
    to market a car name that begins with the "[non-permissible content removed]-" sound, anyway! :P
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    and it says here, it was the Pontiac Lemans, at one time.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Astra
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    The Pontiac Vega was called the "Astre." Right, Andre? :)
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Astre

    .
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "Honda may be marketing the Element to trendy Generation Y surfer dude/dudette types, but in fact it's quite popular among senior citizens."

    I was 23 years old when Honda put the Element out on the market. My reaction to when the Element first came out was like 20 somethings are not going to buy this. I don;t consider myself generation Y even though I do have some why Y in me(hate to admit.)

    Young people buy people buy Honda Civics, Ford Mustang's, Mazda 3's and 6's not Elements.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Well Honda and Toyota have to upgrade HP each time they indroduce a new generation of a paricular model. I guess Honda and Toyota has to kind of find a happy medium between the most HP that they get out of their engines and resonable fuel miledage figures.

    "The new Civics are worse than the old ones, and the Fit's mpgs are nothing to write home about."

    Well the Civic gained some HP for the new 06 model over the 05 model so thats probably the reason for the fuel mileadge downfall of the Civic.

    I like too to see fuel mileadge gains industry wide but with HP increasing industry wise those fuel mileadge figures get harder to increase.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    ..."Cars everyone else hates but you love" as a sub-topic?

    I have a total soft spot in my heart for the recent Mercury Cougar hatchback. I like the styling, that it's a hatchback, that the spoiler was always optional and that Mercury for once offered something unique. I know it didn't stack up against its competition and the automotive press without exception panned it, but there's just something about it that appeals to me. :blush:
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    I concur.
    I saw one recently(of course, it is an old-er model, since they no longer make the Mercury Cougar/hatch) in town.
    It did look good.

    I like hatchbacks, especially 3 doors.

    I wonder if Ford is seriously considering building the Reflex, from the autoshow(forgot if it was Detroit or Chicago).

    I know that the Scion tC, it sold nearly 75,000 units in 05(3 door).
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I think the only people who hate the last Cougar are fans of the old lux-o-barge Cougars. I see a few of them around here and they are nice-looking cars. They carry the "Arts & Science" look much better than the Celica or CTS do. Build quality and engineering wasn't so hot, though (Ford really botched the Mondeo-Contour translation).
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    I agree. While I liked the styling a lot the build quality was not the greatest. The dash board had plastic so thin that beer cup manufacturers would be ashamed. For some reason when a European car comes here we try to make it as cheap as possible. Not a good idea. I'm all for a re incarnation of the late 60's Cougar. The Mustang should be the donor for the car.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yaris, Fit, Prius killed off because they are unsafe and kids don't have a choice to ride in them. ;)

    Rocky
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Hey Rock,

    The Prius weighs 2890 pounds, about the same as my '80 Volvo 240 2-door. Not exactly a small car!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    All battery. Well they are small in shape. Would you want to take on a DTS in a head on collision at 70 mph ? I know I wouldn't and feel these super small cars should be banned for crash safety reasons. ;)

    Rocky
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    If you give me a Cadillac I'll get rid of my compact. I'll be happy, you'll be happy... let's do it!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Come-on carlismo you and I both know you can afford a bigger car than a sardine can. A Carolla is a big step up and can be baught for $13K ;)

    Rocky
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    But some sardine cans are fun! Some of us would rather drive a 1983 Corolla GT-S than a new one.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I can think of a couple I would like to drive. The Mini Cooper and the Smart Twofor as sold in Canada. I would be real hesitant to take either onto a CA freeway. After driving a new loaner Accent, I would not have one if given to me. I took the long way home to avoid the freeway. It just did not feel safe above 50 MPH. Echo, Aveo, Metro, Accent and a dozen other small cars should only be allowed on surface roads. NO freeway travel. They are the mopeds of the auto industry.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    I know what you mean. My old Tercel felt unsafe above 85 so I kept it below that.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    According to Wikipedia, the main battery pack in the current Prius weighs 45 kg (99 pounds). Less than you, I'm sure! ;)

    No, I wouldn't want to run it head-on into a Cadillac DTS (just over 4000 lbs), but the same holds true for my Camrys (about 3200 lbs). In my view, there's a happy medium between efficiency and safety, and both the Prius and Camry are in my comfort zone.

    Even the "small" Jetta has porked up to 3200 lbs.

    BTW, I'm "letting" my son buy a Prius, with optional side airbags of course. (He's 28 years old, so he can really make his own decisions.) However, he and his wife live in New York City (Queens), and they still plan to take the subway to work in Manhattan.
  • patrockpatrock Member Posts: 5
    I hate/would kill anything boring! You know what I'm talking about.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    What cars would you consider boring ? Camcord ? They actually are adding a little spice into about every car nowdays.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060618/BUSINESS01/606180623/10- 14

    These guys mean it literally. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    I really want to hear people's opinions on some cars, such as:
    Buick Rendezvous
    Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable (1996-2000)
    Buick Skylark (1992-1995)
    Eagle Vision
    Chrysler Sebring Coupe
    Pontiac Montana (1997-2005)
    Saturn L-Series
    Saturn Relay

    A bit random, yes, but I really would like to hear what you guys think about those cars.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,138
    If none of them ever existed, I wouldn't complain. Kind of a loser crew you've got with that list. Some less offensive than others (Eagle, Sebring, Saturn L) but none of them beauties or winners.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    I always had a soft spot in my heart for the Skylark...it was such a strange-looking beast from modern-day Buick, and you could get it in a coupe to boot.

    I like to think some designer in Buick was thinking "WWHD?" (What would Harley do?). Yeah, the result was less than an automotive sex symbol, but cool that Buick at least tried...

    I'm sure though I'll get as much disbelief for this as I did when I said I liked the looks of its stable-mate, the Olds Acheiva... :blush:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Buick Rendezvous - a less ugly Aztek.

    Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable (1996-2000)- Yuck! Looks like a catfish. The old style became sort of passe' by 1995, but this was no way to jazz up a somewhat dull car. It reminds me of the 2007 "pignose" Camry. Of course, Toyota can sell anything regardless of how ugly it is. Ford doesn't have that luxury.

    Buick Skylark (1992-1995) - Loved the bold earlier design. Hated it after they toned it down.

    Eagle Vision - liked it, but feared concerns about reliability.

    Chrysler Sebring Coupe - Depends on which year. I hated the ones with the fake grille.

    Pontiac Montana (1997-2005) - NO PONTIAC MINIVANS EVER! Minivans from the "excitement" division? "We Build Boredom!"

    Saturn L-Series - "L" for LOSER!

    Saturn Relay - least offensive of GM's "bottlenose" minivans.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    image

    Just spit up a cup of coffee after I saw this...
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    Credit to the photographer though. That angle and the blinding flashes and confusing shines really hide the car's droopy face and weak flanks.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,138
    Must be an "SS"

    Right before the "American Revolution"
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Sunnyside Acura? Honestly, how many people are going to say, "Hmm, the TSX is nice, but I've got to rock that Cavalier!" How did this, um, thing, not get sent directly to auction or donated to the local fire department as a Jaws of Life demo?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    lol

    You mean this car wouldn't look intimidating to you if it pulled up next to you at a stoplight? I'd be very intimidated...

    If I was on my Bicycle
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Nice Ride :P

    Rocky
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    No joke! :P
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    Got the real turd of the parking lot there... I'd take the nice S60, the Eclipse (even though that was from Mitsubishi's "Pontiac" era), the ten-year-old Integra or even the C-Class Sport Coupe over that... thing.

    And is that an Infiniti I30 reflected in the paintwork?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I think its a Maxima in the reflection.

    Funny, I went to college with a guy who had a Geo Storm, Black with white stripes so I guess anything qualifies :sick:
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    "Buick Rendezvous
    Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable (1996-2000)
    Buick Skylark (1992-1995)
    Eagle Vision
    Chrysler Sebring Coupe
    Pontiac Montana (1997-2005)
    Saturn L-Series
    Saturn Relay"

    Ok, HATE the Buick Rendesvous minivan, SUV poser.
    Neutral on the Skylark, since it's been dead 10 years.
    Liked the Eagle Vision, also irrelevant today.
    Like the looks of the Sebring coupe.
    Hate all GM Minivans, so the Montana falls in.
    HATE all Saturns, always have, always will. I'd kill the brand.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    " I can't help but wonder how much better GM would be if they offered two divisions (a bread-and-butter and 'luxury', like, uh, Honda, Nissan and Toyota). Then they could do something amazing like concentrating on the big details that really matter rather than petty little trim peices that separate, say, a Torrent from an Equinox."

    I've been thinking that as well. Which is why I wonder why Toyota developed the Scion brand, but then again, whatever they do works, they do it very carefully and cost effectively.

    GM is brand poor though, they need to fold at least 3 divisions.
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