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Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

19091939596161

Comments

  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    The noise is likely speed related and not RPM related. The Goodyears are notorious for "cupping" on these vehicles and creating a lot of noise. This should be visible as an unusual wear pattern on the edges of the tire. If it is cupping the only way to get rid of the noise is to replace the tires. If the sound is truly RPM related,as opposed to speed related, you would get the same noise in low range at the same RPM.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Hey Mazda ain't got nuthin' on us Rover drivers!

    If it's a driveshaft problem then likely it will be high-frequency squeaking instead of low frequency whoomping, and it will squeak at about 3x your wheel rotation speed. If a hookes joint has worn to where it could be producing deep pitched rumbles then it will be (painfully) obvious climbing beneath and looking. It will be all gnarled and possibly blued at the end where it's failed. Believe it or not that happened to me out 75 miles from the middle of nowhere. I doubt it's the driveshaft.

    Wheel bearings will "grind" or "rumble" or might even "Whoomp" but they'd do it forward or reverse, on or off the throttle. Try kneeling beside the offside front wheel, then grab it right at the top (12 o'clock position). Jerk it HARD toward you and away from you, and see if there's noticeable looseness that sounds like metallic clacking. Try to ignore other sounds like suspension bushes or tie rod ends, listen for noise from the hub area and watch for looseness. Try the other front wheel and see if it's the same. If the wheel bearing is failing it will get looser and looser before it fails. And, believe it or not, I had THIS happen to me 140 miles NW from the middle of nowhere.

    My bet is on the tires. Try rotating the tires on that side front-back and see if the noise source moves to the rear.

    Good luck!
  • kb28kb28 Posts: 25
    Thanks Tincup and Nanuq. I will have a look and give 'em a yank. I do recall seeing that the tires are wearing poorly at the edges. It's time to replace them anyway, but I've hesitated because of not being able to find an 18" size suitable for off road, but that is another story. Also, tincup, I noticed that the sound came on rather abruptly and not gradually. In other words one day is wasn't there and the next is was. Would this be typical with a cupping problem?
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    That sounds like a belt failed inside the tire carcass. Probably when you were offroading? (wink) These 18" tires are notorious for pinch flats and such.

    Cupping takes months to develop, so that sound would have come on gradually.
  • bugnut23bugnut23 Posts: 8
    Well, I finally bit the bullet and bought a Disco - a lovely 2001 with only 23000 km and 2 years left on the warranty. Had it up in the snow last weekend en route to a crevasse rescue workshop, and that ETC works marvellously even with those Goodyear HPs. Thanks Tincup47 from your efforts in sleuthing out warranty and service records. Can you guys give me some advice on when brakepads should be replaced? When serviced 3000 km ago, the fronts had 35-40% left, the rears about 25% and they had "uneven" wear. And does anyone on this board run Pirelli Scorpion A/Ts. Have heard some good things about them. Thanks again for your assist.
  • calvinxcalvinx Posts: 4
    Tincup (and others who've had tire cupping problems),
    I am curious about the tire cupping that you mentioned in the post by kb28. My tires are also pretty loud, making a definite speed related noise. I recently went in a local tire shop and they told me that my tires are cupping and that even rotating them would not help.

    I was wondering if this issue is one that LR has given some "relief" for in the past since I have previously read/heard about tire cupping having been a problem with the Goodyear's.

    I have only owned the vehicle (a 2001 DII) for 14 months/23K miles - with very little tread wear beyond the cupping. I first noticed this several months ago but didn't think much of it until recently when I decided to have the tires rotated despite LR's recommendation. I have gone into the dealership at least five times for scheduled maintanence and other maintenance but they have never mentioned it nor have they ever suggested a tire rotation -- both of which I am obviously disappointed in!

    If the Goodyear tires themselves are bad then I certainly don't feel like we owners should be forced to bear the burden of premature replacement! Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  • mrtoad3mrtoad3 Posts: 68
    I have a question for tincup. Can I have warranty repairs done to my Rover at an independent repair shop vs the dealer? This independent guy is very experienced and is certified in England for Land Rovers and has recently moved to the US. He is very knowledgeable and fair. I feel he knows more about LR's than the dealer and would not replace parts unnecessarily like a dealer. He has been able to answer more questions than any dealer tech I've spoken to. He knew about the recall/technical bulletin for the gas gauge/tank problem that you informed me about a few weeks ago whereas the dealer didn't know about the problem. Can he be reimbursed by LR for these repairs? My nearest dealer shop is 1.5 hrs away. It would be very helpful if he could perform these repairs instead. Thanks for your help.
  • mlammanmlamman Posts: 1
    Gentleman out there who make up the LR jury, I need your guidance.
    All bravado aside, I have no interest/skill to be a weekend mechanic even for the slightest leak and wouldn't know what to do anyway. It will be used solely for my commuting. My wife drives a Yukon XL for the rugrat shuttle. However, I have, and have had, an SUV for the last 6 years. I deplore minivans.
    I really like the looks and ride of the '03 Disco and likewise on the '99-'01 RR and I will be purchasing by mid-August; either the '03 Disco or the RR.
    I have read this particular message board for over a year and value your opinions.
    If you feel that either of these would not be good choices I will resort to a 2001 530 Beamer.
    Thanks in advance for your responses!
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Unfortunately any manufacturer's warranty is only good through their retail outlets except in the case of emergency repairs. Even at that, you would have to pay the independent shop and submit a claim at your dealer for reimbursement. I know of no manufacturer that pays directly to independent repair facilities.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    We're back from Seward and we had a close call on the return trip. I was driving along at 65mph, enjoying the scenery, involved in lovely conversation with the Lady Cynthia, when a group of Harleys went by the other direction. I smiled and wished I was on my road burner too, when I saw movement from the corner of my eye. I turned my head just as a HUGE moose came running full speed up the enbankment, onto the road right in my path. Maybe the noise scared him, I have no idea. Looking up the other lane there was another biker coming, so that option was out. I began to aim behind the moose as I stood on the brakes, and he paused then looked back as if he was going to reverse directions. I saw the biker begin to slide his back wheel as he hit the brakes, looking at MY lane as his exit point too. My brain was shouting THIS IS NOT GOOD as I stood harder and harder on the brakes. The moose turned and continued his original path, hooves clattering, and my front left corner missing him by about one foot as my speed dropped to a walking pace. He nearly took out the biker, and disappeared into the woods.

    I looked back and there was the mother of all squirm marks on the road where my tires were clawing for grip, and I was impressed at how straight the tracks were. I never locked them up or slewed sideways, the back end didn't try to come around, I just had massive straight line braking.

    Continuing home we remarked on our good fortune and how our guardian angels were with us once more, and I commented on how well the truck performed.

    Coffee? Who needs coffee when your blood is pumping 50% adrenaline?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,322
    Time for some Jackaroo bars?

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • Nanug, its time to fess up. You must be getting a side payment from Edmunds to write this stuff. Seriously, your input on this board makes it one of the best ones.

    Incidentally, I can't wait to hear your advice to mlamman. A lot of people who are into the benefits of Discos and Rovers share his values. We don't have the time or inclination to perform roadside repairs on an SUV. I think that price wise he established a level playing field with the different model years for the the Rover and the Disco.

    So, Nanug, what is it going to be? Fresh styling, probably better assembly quality, 4.6 engine, but instant and significant depreciation when the revised MY2005 appears (will there even be a 2004?) vs. the plusher, more English men's club -like interior, although air bag equipped ("sorry, Mr. Mlamman, we need authorization to fix your air bags for $3000 or so"), by now depreciation proof, better sterio, longer wheelbase Rover?

    If the money was the same, I guess for a daily commuter the Rover would be preferable until the first service visit.

    Please advise.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    I'll second that!

    Nanuq - quite seriously, I am impressed by your writing style. Have you ever thought of a career change?

    tidester, host
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Thanks, but you better tell that to my high school literature teacher! We were tasked once with writing an epic piece so I did something along the lines of The Hesperus, and it came out to like EIGHT PAGES long... and she gave it back with the comment "too hyperbolic". Which drove me to a new career in math. Now I write software (you should see THAT writing style!) and it's nice to break away and write real words to real people.

    As for The Eternal Question, Disco vs. Rangie, I gotta say I really don't know enough about the two to give a valuable answer. My basic opinion is that simpler is better, so I can work on it myself. BUT, that violates one of the initial conditions: no roadside maintenance. I also want a truck that's great offroad; the onroad manners really don't matter to me. I'm gonna drive it like a cat in a room full of mousetraps: on tiptoes.

    An observation: Rover needs to stay in business so they have to make trucks that sell. What sells is something that's great onroad. So, from my little corner of the world it seems they are tending toward a central capability of roadworthiness and "some" offroad ability. Consider you used to be able to buy hardcore (Defender) or cushy (Rangie). Then they filled the gap with the competitively priced Disco and guess which is the winner? It has most of the Defender's capability (and the same running gear) and some of the Rangie's comfort. People voted with their pocketbooks and Rover paid attention. Now, we've got the Freelander, the new Disqueax and the new Rangie... all fine trucks, but all far removed from a Defender (sigh).

    (You notice I still haven't answered the question)

    IMHO the new Disqueax is very close to the older Rangie in comfort. Probably they are the same offroad. One will take a big hit when you drive it off the lot, the other won't. Rover styling is pretty darn classic, so I don't think the Disco facelift will really affect previous model years that much. Parts are expensive to replace, and the newer truck's initial build quality will be wonderful.

    All this has been said before, so you gotta ask yourself what's most important to you? If it's peace of mind, get the new Disco. If it's the ability to go offroad and bash it a little and not cringe at every impact, get the one that's a couple years old. If you want to go offroad a LOT and keep your Significant Other happy, and laugh at people who stand with their mouths hanging open because your quaint little Brit truck does amazing things, and you don't mind the occasional scrape or repair, get an older Disco (like my '96). And if you want to cut the wheel openings and Go Big with your Rover, get an OLD Rangie, upgrade the drivetrain and go bonzo. If you want to do this and retain some measure of cachet, get a Defender. If you want to poke around at walking speed and tiptoe over obstacles and like the sound of dripping oil and the ability to hose it out, get a Series Rover.

    Whew. How's that? Nice tiptoeing? ;) Sorry for the LONG windedness!
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    While I agree with most of what you said I have to disagree with your conclusions on the sales volumes of the vehicles. The main reason people choose the Discovery over the Range Rover has to do with the huge price difference, not the vehicles capabilities. I have had the opportunity to drive the 4.0-4.6 Range Rover in some very extreme situations and it performed equal to the Discovery. When Land Rover North America reran the Great Divide Expedition in 1999, it used the 4.0-4.6 Range Rover. The Defender left this market due to the fact that it could not be brought into compliance with Federal Safety requirements at a reasonable enough price to justify it. This was decided because of the very low volume of vehicles sold when it was available, less than 8,000 total. Freelander was brought in to help increase total vehicle sales to help our dealers to survive. The New Range Rover is actually very capable off-road, some of our instructors at the driving schools say it is the best off-road vehicle we ever produced, so there should be no fear of any diminishing of capabilities in future products.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Well said! You put it into words a lot better than I could have with my tortured syntax.

    When I talked about capability being the deciding factor instead of price, I was still thinking ca. the mid 90s and the advent of the NAS Disco vs. the venerable Rangie. Cush vs. crush, viscous vs. hard lock, etc. It's the decision I made back then, looking at the well-loved Rangies sitting next to the year-old Disco I eventually bought (which even shares some of the body panels!). Now, the Rangie is MUCH MUCH more expensive than the Disco and I'm sure that's what drives most of the purchase decisions. I guess it's completely off my radar scope to consider a "new" purchase so I didn't consider that.

    I've read some of the New Rangie tests and it sounds like LR did it right again; it excels when compared to all the other new trucks. BUT... if you put it up against what I like to do, I think I'll hang onto my poor old ragged Disco. *wink*

    Cheers!
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    Which drove me to a new career in math.

    I, for one, find that laudable, respectable, noble and inspiring! :-)

    tidester, host
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Heisenberg is stopped beside the road in an elderly Series Rover, with obligatory busted mileometer...

    Cop: Do you know how fast you were going back there?!!!

    Heisenberg: No, but I know precisely where I am.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    GROAN!

    tidester, host
  • kb28kb28 Posts: 25
    I was doing a little routine servicing on my 2001 DII checking various fluid levels and the like, and when I went to check the automatic transmission fluid I couldn't find a dipstick or port to do it. I checked the owner's manual and nothing. How do you do this? A mechanic I called (who was unfamiliar with LRs) said it probably had to be checked on the transmission itself by removing a screw plug like on the front and rear differentials. Tincup, you know anything about this?

    PS-My tires are still whoomping and if anyone knows if Goodyear is offering any relief, I would appreciate you letting me know.
  • stopgostopgo Posts: 16
    Has anyone seen this SUV? It's pretty interesting coming from VW. Looks like a pretty tough vehicle with fairly serious offroad intentions. It will be interesting to see how it sells and more interesting to see if it's really all VW's cracking it up to be.
  • lanche72lanche72 Posts: 9
    From all the reviews I have read on the new VW it is supposed to be very serious comp for the LR/RR in every category including off-road.
    It won the Car and Driver road test (lr included) and was called a 4-wheel swiss army knife.
    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article- _id=1798&page_number=1
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    There is a fill/level plug on the transmission to check the level of the fluid. With the vehicle on a level surface the fluid should be at the bottom edge of the fill hole.
  • wkrebswkrebs Posts: 1
    As mentioned in the title I am in the market for a 2003 Disco or a slightly used 2000-2002 Disco. If you were to buy one now which would you buy? You can get good deals on the 2000's and slightly newer but I think the newer models probably have less problems and you have a longer warrranty. Do y'all think that the 2003 is that much better than the 2002 is close to the 2003 factoring in the price difference. probably 35k versus 25k?
  • My 2003 HSE Disco states that I need premium unleaded gasoline. Is this just to keep the rover from dropping below 12 miles/p/gallon? is it ever feasible to use mid garde or eben regular gasoline? gas prices are killing me.
  • 02 series 2 has a bad history of repairs..ur better off going with a new disco under warranty than risk an old disco with a 1 year. besides the warranty issue, the 2003 feels and looks much better than its old models.
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Rovers use high test gas to prevent pinging under heavy use, like hard climbing. You CAN use lower octane gas, but the ECU will detect the preignition and retard your timing to prevent engine damage. At least in the Series I Disco (not sure about the SII) once it's retarded it will not advance again on its own, resulting in noticeably less power at high RPMs, like in passing situations. It can be reset to the original timing by Rover's testbook.

    It may not seem like a worry, but I've been in the middle of some 30 minute hard climbs and just cringed as I listened to the engine ping and smelled the cats roasting. When you're doing that you can't always turn back and trust me, you'll wish you weren't doing that to your truck. High octane gas solves the problem. And remember to park away from combustibles when you reach the top... your cats will be glowing red by then.
  • Good luck with Goodyear. I solved the problem with Pirelli Scorpion ST 255/65 R16's. They are a dream. I created a new problem however ... now that the Disco doesn't whoomp anymore I can't get the wife out of it.

    wkrebs ... I bought my 99 Disco (only 32k miles!) in Feb. Came with the 1 yr certified used vehicle warranty. No problem in three months of Mississippi outback driving. Do your homework though ... get at least a carfax report.
  • fdion1fdion1 Posts: 28
    For various reasons, I'm thinking of getting a series 1 Discovery. This means 94 to early 99. What are some of the pros and cons of the various years? I've heard many issues with the 96-97 regarding valves (ECU not updated). I've also heard the 94 engine wasn't as reliable? I was thinking of a 95 or 98, or does it really matter?

    It seems difficult also to find low mileage s1.

    Thanks for any insight,

    Francois
    Kernersville, NC
  • nanuqnanuq Posts: 765
    Congratulations! Another True Believer! :) SI Discos rock... you'll love it!

    With '96 came the advent of GEMS4 and the sticking exhaust valves problem. A search by VIN ought to show if the problem was addressed on your potential truck. It's a big ticket item, make sure it's been done.

    '96 also had a Rotoflex rear coupler (instead of Hookes joints) and those can fail.

    '97 came with a new release of GEMS that should prevent the sticking valves issue... but make sure it's not a '96 *called* a '97 because it was built in December or something.

    I believe the '94 and '95 had the 3.5L engine, and as far as I know they don't really have ANY issues other than those common to all Rovers: keep your lubes fresh and clean and you'll run nearly forever with some regular maintenance.

    Lucas vs. Bosch: I'm happy as a clam at high tide with my Lucas electrics (take THAT, Lord Lucas!) they've never failed me, and the weirdnesses are manageable.

    SI vs. SII drivetrain: I prefer the SI drivetrain with its quaint swivel housings and zillions of moving parts. Call me twisted. I'll never lose a wheel bearing or CV joint either. The '96 has the strong halfshafts and you can pick up Detroit and TruTrac lockers for not too much money, and make it unstoppable...and still driveable on the street. Plus that cabin-selectable center diff lock is sure nice.

    Don't worry too much about the miles. At 82k miles my '96 still drives, feels and operates like a new truck. It is simply unbelievable how nice and tight and clunk-free everything is, considering the HARD life my truck lives.

    Alternators, ABS pumps and power steering pumps are all big-ticket items on Rovers. They seem to go about 80-100k miles and then die. See if those have been replaced before you buy your potential truck.

    If your seller will allow it, drain one of the swivel balls (have some 90w with you to refill it) and see if it's milky white. If it is, the breather is plugged and likely your diff and swivels have moisture in them... not good.

    Check the brake rotors for gouges and to see if they've been replaced. They're pretty soft and will last 80-100k as well, and will develop some impressive plateaus where the metal wears down relative to the hub. How are the pads?

    Good luck!
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