Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

gaborik · May 2003

I am a new owner of a used 99 Diso II SE7 with about 57,000 miles (beautiful truck!!). I am indebted to many of you for your prior posts, as you have collectively saved me several trips to the dealer. Despite my best efforts, however, I still have three issues about which I would greatly appreciate some thought. If these have been addressed in the past, then please forgive me.

First, my ABS light (along with hill desent and traction control) comes on every so often (avg. a couple of times per week) for absolutely no apparent reason (nothing seems to be common to each occassion except for perhaps rain - generally goes out as soon as I turn the vehicle off and re-start). The dealer has cleared it once ($90), but I am hesitant to keep bringing it back since I am out of warranty and because it does not seem to represent any sort of catastrophic problem.

Second, the service engine soon light comes on every so often. The first time, I put catalytic coverter cleaner into a new tank of gas and the light went out shortly thereafter. Now it is on again, but I am hesitant to keep using the CC cleaner since it is recommended for only every 3,000 miles. The dealer says not to worry unless the light starts blinking, but this, along with the ABS light, is driving me nuts (maybe because I cannot figure it out more than anything else).

Finally, I have a small leak from the valve cover that drops some oil from the middle of the vehicle every few days. I can live with this. My question is whether anyone recommends products like "Stop Leak" engine oil additive to help.

I love my Land Rover, but compared to other used SUVs I have owned, i.e. Mercedes ML320, I am encountering a lot of what I hope turn out to be nuisance problems.

Please help if you can. Maybe one day I will be able to contribute something as opposed to just asking questions. My apologies for the length of this post.

Thanks!!

nanuq · May 2003

The phrase you need to memorize is "If it's not leaking, it's empty."

Not really! Just kidding. Seriously, see if you can get a long extension on a ratchet and tighten up the bolts holding the rocker cover on. I suspect you'll find they're a little loose. It's not uncommon to have to tighten these 1/4 turn every so often. I certainly would NOT put any kind of oil stop-leak in your engine. I've gone that route over the years with cars long since gone, and it's just not worth it.

About the electrical weirdness, open your hood and see if you have a fuse block about midpoint on the engine, topside, passenger side, laying parallel to the engine. It will be black, about 10" long with a bunch of heavy cables coming in the underside. If so, go back thru these posts and read up on taking it apart and cleaning the contacts inside. That's the first place I'd look.

I hope this helps! -Bob

gaborik · May 2003

I will give these a try and really appreciate the advice!!!!

efinkens · May 2003

Gaborik: I own a disco with a near identical profile. My engine light stays on, too. It has been cleared three times, differnt reason each time and with no syptom to support the warning...

gaborik · May 2003

Efinkens: I followed Nanuq's instructions on cleaning the engine fuse block and so far so good. One thing I noticed immediately is that a faint buzzing sound that would ALWAYS (24 hours a day) come from the ABS fuse (in the engine fuse block) and some sort of metal ABS module across the engine on the driver side stopped. The buzzing still occurs, but seems to stop about eight minutes after the ignition is turned off. My LR dealer tells me that this is normal. I am hoping this means fewer unexplained warning lights for me!!!

Question to all: Can you explain the reference to "Lord Lucas" in previous posts? I notice that the engine fuse block has the word "Lucas" on it. Is this the manufacturer of that part? Is this bad?

Last question to all: My dealer wants $350 to fix what they term a valve cover oil leak. Does this seem reasonable?

nanuq · May 2003

This is a tongue in cheek reference to Lord Lucas, the Prince of Darkness. Y'see, Lucas electrics have come on many British cars over the years and they were (are) notorious for failing at the most inopportune times, like in the middle of the night in a downpour... hence the "Prince of Darkness" name.

So to avert looming catastrophe we give deference to His Darkness once in awhile and it seems to keep our electrics working better. We also each have come up with our Lord Lucas Disclaimer, that we post as necessary, like before long road trips. It seems to keep him happy.

Lord Lucas Disclaimer: My Land Rover is the most miserable, leaky, quirky vehicle this side of the La Brea Tar Pits, and equally repugnant (wink). It sparks and pops like fireworks on the 4th of July and leaves trails of expensive parts everywhere I go (nudge nudge). Women fear it, and mechanics love it. It fails constantly (smirk) and I cannot be more than 100 yards from home and have any hope of it running on more than two cylinders. (wink wink) I wish I had NEEEEVVVERRRR (hint hint) bought it.

(think that will keep me running another month?)

kb28 · May 2003

My 2001 SE7 with 29K miles has started making what I call a Whoomp, Whoomp noise. It occurs at speeds of less than 10mph and generally when coasting, like letting your foot off the accelerator and coating to a stop. It is very noticable at about 5mph if "touring" slowly down a narrow street or near a wall. If I speed up the sound goes away, but as long as I'm at less that 10, it's Whoomp, Whoomp, Whoomp......all the way. I have not yet had the chance to take it into the dealer. Anyone have any idea what this might be? I suspect the drive shaft or wheel bearing.

nanuq · May 2003

I think Discos only draw from the "zing, klonk, grrgl and whump" lexicon. Are you SURE there isn't a Jeep following you? Jeeps are definite whoompers.

Seriously, does the sound go with wheel RPM, or is it higher frequency... like 3x wheel speed? That would point to a Hookes joint in the driveshaft. Is it rumbly while it happens? Maybe a failing wheel bearing.

How about your tires? I had a road noise and vibration that drove me nuts till I replaced my tires; a big soft spot had developed inside one tire that let it deform under weight, but looked normal from the outside.

Good luck!

gaborik · May 2003

Nanuq: Thanks for the explanation re. Lord Lucas. Even more, thanks for the advice re. my engine and ABS light problems. Since cleaning the connections in the engine fuse block, my problems have disappeared (service engine light off and no more false ABS warnings). I hope this is a lasting fix. Thanks again.

kb28 · May 2003

Thanks for the reply. The noise definitely goes with the RPM. My wife today said she not only hears it, but feels a vibration (seated in passenger seat) as well. As I pick up speed, the noise frequency picks up accordingly and vice versa when slowing down (like a tack in a tire). You could be right about the tires; they are original Goodyear Wranglers (low profiles as you have probably noticed from my previous posts) and have taken quite a beating off road, but still have about 1/4 of the tread left. Like I said, I haven't had time to take it to the dealer and my main concern is that is might be the drive shaft or a wheel bearing going out that could be disastrous on the Interstate. What do you think, and I won't hold you to it.

tincup47 · May 2003

The noise is likely speed related and not RPM related. The Goodyears are notorious for "cupping" on these vehicles and creating a lot of noise. This should be visible as an unusual wear pattern on the edges of the tire. If it is cupping the only way to get rid of the noise is to replace the tires. If the sound is truly RPM related,as opposed to speed related, you would get the same noise in low range at the same RPM.

nanuq · May 2003

Hey Mazda ain't got nuthin' on us Rover drivers!

If it's a driveshaft problem then likely it will be high-frequency squeaking instead of low frequency whoomping, and it will squeak at about 3x your wheel rotation speed. If a hookes joint has worn to where it could be producing deep pitched rumbles then it will be (painfully) obvious climbing beneath and looking. It will be all gnarled and possibly blued at the end where it's failed. Believe it or not that happened to me out 75 miles from the middle of nowhere. I doubt it's the driveshaft.

Wheel bearings will "grind" or "rumble" or might even "Whoomp" but they'd do it forward or reverse, on or off the throttle. Try kneeling beside the offside front wheel, then grab it right at the top (12 o'clock position). Jerk it HARD toward you and away from you, and see if there's noticeable looseness that sounds like metallic clacking. Try to ignore other sounds like suspension bushes or tie rod ends, listen for noise from the hub area and watch for looseness. Try the other front wheel and see if it's the same. If the wheel bearing is failing it will get looser and looser before it fails. And, believe it or not, I had THIS happen to me 140 miles NW from the middle of nowhere.

My bet is on the tires. Try rotating the tires on that side front-back and see if the noise source moves to the rear.

Good luck!

kb28 · May 2003

Thanks Tincup and Nanuq. I will have a look and give 'em a yank. I do recall seeing that the tires are wearing poorly at the edges. It's time to replace them anyway, but I've hesitated because of not being able to find an 18" size suitable for off road, but that is another story. Also, tincup, I noticed that the sound came on rather abruptly and not gradually. In other words one day is wasn't there and the next is was. Would this be typical with a cupping problem?

nanuq · May 2003

That sounds like a belt failed inside the tire carcass. Probably when you were offroading? (wink) These 18" tires are notorious for pinch flats and such.

Cupping takes months to develop, so that sound would have come on gradually.

bugnut23 · May 2003

Well, I finally bit the bullet and bought a Disco - a lovely 2001 with only 23000 km and 2 years left on the warranty. Had it up in the snow last weekend en route to a crevasse rescue workshop, and that ETC works marvellously even with those Goodyear HPs. Thanks Tincup47 from your efforts in sleuthing out warranty and service records. Can you guys give me some advice on when brakepads should be replaced? When serviced 3000 km ago, the fronts had 35-40% left, the rears about 25% and they had "uneven" wear. And does anyone on this board run Pirelli Scorpion A/Ts. Have heard some good things about them. Thanks again for your assist.

calvinx · May 2003

Tincup (and others who've had tire cupping problems),
I am curious about the tire cupping that you mentioned in the post by kb28. My tires are also pretty loud, making a definite speed related noise. I recently went in a local tire shop and they told me that my tires are cupping and that even rotating them would not help.

I was wondering if this issue is one that LR has given some "relief" for in the past since I have previously read/heard about tire cupping having been a problem with the Goodyear's.

I have only owned the vehicle (a 2001 DII) for 14 months/23K miles - with very little tread wear beyond the cupping. I first noticed this several months ago but didn't think much of it until recently when I decided to have the tires rotated despite LR's recommendation. I have gone into the dealership at least five times for scheduled maintanence and other maintenance but they have never mentioned it nor have they ever suggested a tire rotation -- both of which I am obviously disappointed in!

If the Goodyear tires themselves are bad then I certainly don't feel like we owners should be forced to bear the burden of premature replacement! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

mrtoad3 · May 2003

I have a question for tincup. Can I have warranty repairs done to my Rover at an independent repair shop vs the dealer? This independent guy is very experienced and is certified in England for Land Rovers and has recently moved to the US. He is very knowledgeable and fair. I feel he knows more about LR's than the dealer and would not replace parts unnecessarily like a dealer. He has been able to answer more questions than any dealer tech I've spoken to. He knew about the recall/technical bulletin for the gas gauge/tank problem that you informed me about a few weeks ago whereas the dealer didn't know about the problem. Can he be reimbursed by LR for these repairs? My nearest dealer shop is 1.5 hrs away. It would be very helpful if he could perform these repairs instead. Thanks for your help.

mlamman · May 2003

Gentleman out there who make up the LR jury, I need your guidance.
All bravado aside, I have no interest/skill to be a weekend mechanic even for the slightest leak and wouldn't know what to do anyway. It will be used solely for my commuting. My wife drives a Yukon XL for the rugrat shuttle. However, I have, and have had, an SUV for the last 6 years. I deplore minivans.
I really like the looks and ride of the '03 Disco and likewise on the '99-'01 RR and I will be purchasing by mid-August; either the '03 Disco or the RR.
I have read this particular message board for over a year and value your opinions.
If you feel that either of these would not be good choices I will resort to a 2001 530 Beamer.
Thanks in advance for your responses!

tincup47 · May 2003

Unfortunately any manufacturer's warranty is only good through their retail outlets except in the case of emergency repairs. Even at that, you would have to pay the independent shop and submit a claim at your dealer for reimbursement. I know of no manufacturer that pays directly to independent repair facilities.

nanuq · May 2003

We're back from Seward and we had a close call on the return trip. I was driving along at 65mph, enjoying the scenery, involved in lovely conversation with the Lady Cynthia, when a group of Harleys went by the other direction. I smiled and wished I was on my road burner too, when I saw movement from the corner of my eye. I turned my head just as a HUGE moose came running full speed up the enbankment, onto the road right in my path. Maybe the noise scared him, I have no idea. Looking up the other lane there was another biker coming, so that option was out. I began to aim behind the moose as I stood on the brakes, and he paused then looked back as if he was going to reverse directions. I saw the biker begin to slide his back wheel as he hit the brakes, looking at MY lane as his exit point too. My brain was shouting THIS IS NOT GOOD as I stood harder and harder on the brakes. The moose turned and continued his original path, hooves clattering, and my front left corner missing him by about one foot as my speed dropped to a walking pace. He nearly took out the biker, and disappeared into the woods.

I looked back and there was the mother of all squirm marks on the road where my tires were clawing for grip, and I was impressed at how straight the tracks were. I never locked them up or slewed sideways, the back end didn't try to come around, I just had massive straight line braking.

Continuing home we remarked on our good fortune and how our guardian angels were with us once more, and I commented on how well the truck performed.

Coffee? Who needs coffee when your blood is pumping 50% adrenaline?

stever · May 2003

Time for some Jackaroo bars?

Steve, Host

blockislandguy · May 2003

Nanug, its time to fess up. You must be getting a side payment from Edmunds to write this stuff. Seriously, your input on this board makes it one of the best ones.

Incidentally, I can't wait to hear your advice to mlamman. A lot of people who are into the benefits of Discos and Rovers share his values. We don't have the time or inclination to perform roadside repairs on an SUV. I think that price wise he established a level playing field with the different model years for the the Rover and the Disco.

So, Nanug, what is it going to be? Fresh styling, probably better assembly quality, 4.6 engine, but instant and significant depreciation when the revised MY2005 appears (will there even be a 2004?) vs. the plusher, more English men's club -like interior, although air bag equipped ("sorry, Mr. Mlamman, we need authorization to fix your air bags for $3000 or so"), by now depreciation proof, better sterio, longer wheelbase Rover?

If the money was the same, I guess for a daily commuter the Rover would be preferable until the first service visit.

Please advise.

tidester · May 2003

I'll second that!

Nanuq - quite seriously, I am impressed by your writing style. Have you ever thought of a career change?

tidester, host

nanuq · May 2003

Thanks, but you better tell that to my high school literature teacher! We were tasked once with writing an epic piece so I did something along the lines of The Hesperus, and it came out to like EIGHT PAGES long... and she gave it back with the comment "too hyperbolic". Which drove me to a new career in math. Now I write software (you should see THAT writing style!) and it's nice to break away and write real words to real people.

As for The Eternal Question, Disco vs. Rangie, I gotta say I really don't know enough about the two to give a valuable answer. My basic opinion is that simpler is better, so I can work on it myself. BUT, that violates one of the initial conditions: no roadside maintenance. I also want a truck that's great offroad; the onroad manners really don't matter to me. I'm gonna drive it like a cat in a room full of mousetraps: on tiptoes.

An observation: Rover needs to stay in business so they have to make trucks that sell. What sells is something that's great onroad. So, from my little corner of the world it seems they are tending toward a central capability of roadworthiness and "some" offroad ability. Consider you used to be able to buy hardcore (Defender) or cushy (Rangie). Then they filled the gap with the competitively priced Disco and guess which is the winner? It has most of the Defender's capability (and the same running gear) and some of the Rangie's comfort. People voted with their pocketbooks and Rover paid attention. Now, we've got the Freelander, the new Disqueax and the new Rangie... all fine trucks, but all far removed from a Defender (sigh).

(You notice I still haven't answered the question)

IMHO the new Disqueax is very close to the older Rangie in comfort. Probably they are the same offroad. One will take a big hit when you drive it off the lot, the other won't. Rover styling is pretty darn classic, so I don't think the Disco facelift will really affect previous model years that much. Parts are expensive to replace, and the newer truck's initial build quality will be wonderful.

All this has been said before, so you gotta ask yourself what's most important to you? If it's peace of mind, get the new Disco. If it's the ability to go offroad and bash it a little and not cringe at every impact, get the one that's a couple years old. If you want to go offroad a LOT and keep your Significant Other happy, and laugh at people who stand with their mouths hanging open because your quaint little Brit truck does amazing things, and you don't mind the occasional scrape or repair, get an older Disco (like my '96). And if you want to cut the wheel openings and Go Big with your Rover, get an OLD Rangie, upgrade the drivetrain and go bonzo. If you want to do this and retain some measure of cachet, get a Defender. If you want to poke around at walking speed and tiptoe over obstacles and like the sound of dripping oil and the ability to hose it out, get a Series Rover.

Whew. How's that? Nice tiptoeing?

Sorry for the LONG windedness!

tincup47 · May 2003

While I agree with most of what you said I have to disagree with your conclusions on the sales volumes of the vehicles. The main reason people choose the Discovery over the Range Rover has to do with the huge price difference, not the vehicles capabilities. I have had the opportunity to drive the 4.0-4.6 Range Rover in some very extreme situations and it performed equal to the Discovery. When Land Rover North America reran the Great Divide Expedition in 1999, it used the 4.0-4.6 Range Rover. The Defender left this market due to the fact that it could not be brought into compliance with Federal Safety requirements at a reasonable enough price to justify it. This was decided because of the very low volume of vehicles sold when it was available, less than 8,000 total. Freelander was brought in to help increase total vehicle sales to help our dealers to survive. The New Range Rover is actually very capable off-road, some of our instructors at the driving schools say it is the best off-road vehicle we ever produced, so there should be no fear of any diminishing of capabilities in future products.

nanuq · May 2003

Well said! You put it into words a lot better than I could have with my tortured syntax.

When I talked about capability being the deciding factor instead of price, I was still thinking ca. the mid 90s and the advent of the NAS Disco vs. the venerable Rangie. Cush vs. crush, viscous vs. hard lock, etc. It's the decision I made back then, looking at the well-loved Rangies sitting next to the year-old Disco I eventually bought (which even shares some of the body panels!). Now, the Rangie is MUCH MUCH more expensive than the Disco and I'm sure that's what drives most of the purchase decisions. I guess it's completely off my radar scope to consider a "new" purchase so I didn't consider that.

I've read some of the New Rangie tests and it sounds like LR did it right again; it excels when compared to all the other new trucks. BUT... if you put it up against what I like to do, I think I'll hang onto my poor old ragged Disco. *wink*

Cheers!

tidester · May 2003

Which drove me to a new career in math.

I, for one, find that laudable, respectable, noble and inspiring! :-)

tidester, host

nanuq · May 2003

Heisenberg is stopped beside the road in an elderly Series Rover, with obligatory busted mileometer...

Cop: Do you know how fast you were going back there?!!!

Heisenberg: No, but I know precisely where I am.

tidester · May 2003

GROAN!

tidester, host

kb28 · May 2003

I was doing a little routine servicing on my 2001 DII checking various fluid levels and the like, and when I went to check the automatic transmission fluid I couldn't find a dipstick or port to do it. I checked the owner's manual and nothing. How do you do this? A mechanic I called (who was unfamiliar with LRs) said it probably had to be checked on the transmission itself by removing a screw plug like on the front and rear differentials. Tincup, you know anything about this?

PS-My tires are still whoomping and if anyone knows if Goodyear is offering any relief, I would appreciate you letting me know.

stopgo · May 2003

Has anyone seen this SUV? It's pretty interesting coming from VW. Looks like a pretty tough vehicle with fairly serious offroad intentions. It will be interesting to see how it sells and more interesting to see if it's really all VW's cracking it up to be.

lanche72 · May 2003

From all the reviews I have read on the new VW it is supposed to be very serious comp for the LR/RR in every category including off-road.
It won the Car and Driver road test (lr included) and was called a 4-wheel swiss army knife.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article- _id=1798&page_number=1

tincup47 · May 2003

There is a fill/level plug on the transmission to check the level of the fluid. With the vehicle on a level surface the fluid should be at the bottom edge of the fill hole.

wkrebs · May 2003

As mentioned in the title I am in the market for a 2003 Disco or a slightly used 2000-2002 Disco. If you were to buy one now which would you buy? You can get good deals on the 2000's and slightly newer but I think the newer models probably have less problems and you have a longer warrranty. Do y'all think that the 2003 is that much better than the 2002 is close to the 2003 factoring in the price difference. probably 35k versus 25k?

brooklinehoya · May 2003

My 2003 HSE Disco states that I need premium unleaded gasoline. Is this just to keep the rover from dropping below 12 miles/p/gallon? is it ever feasible to use mid garde or eben regular gasoline? gas prices are killing me.

brooklinehoya · May 2003

02 series 2 has a bad history of repairs..ur better off going with a new disco under warranty than risk an old disco with a 1 year. besides the warranty issue, the 2003 feels and looks much better than its old models.

nanuq · May 2003

Rovers use high test gas to prevent pinging under heavy use, like hard climbing. You CAN use lower octane gas, but the ECU will detect the preignition and retard your timing to prevent engine damage. At least in the Series I Disco (not sure about the SII) once it's retarded it will not advance again on its own, resulting in noticeably less power at high RPMs, like in passing situations. It can be reset to the original timing by Rover's testbook.

It may not seem like a worry, but I've been in the middle of some 30 minute hard climbs and just cringed as I listened to the engine ping and smelled the cats roasting. When you're doing that you can't always turn back and trust me, you'll wish you weren't doing that to your truck. High octane gas solves the problem. And remember to park away from combustibles when you reach the top... your cats will be glowing red by then.

letbigdogeat · May 2003

Good luck with Goodyear. I solved the problem with Pirelli Scorpion ST 255/65 R16's. They are a dream. I created a new problem however ... now that the Disco doesn't whoomp anymore I can't get the wife out of it.

wkrebs ... I bought my 99 Disco (only 32k miles!) in Feb. Came with the 1 yr certified used vehicle warranty. No problem in three months of Mississippi outback driving. Do your homework though ... get at least a carfax report.

fdion1 · May 2003

For various reasons, I'm thinking of getting a series 1 Discovery. This means 94 to early 99. What are some of the pros and cons of the various years? I've heard many issues with the 96-97 regarding valves (ECU not updated). I've also heard the 94 engine wasn't as reliable? I was thinking of a 95 or 98, or does it really matter?

It seems difficult also to find low mileage s1.

Thanks for any insight,

Francois
Kernersville, NC

nanuq · May 2003

Congratulations! Another True Believer!

SI Discos rock... you'll love it!

With '96 came the advent of GEMS4 and the sticking exhaust valves problem. A search by VIN ought to show if the problem was addressed on your potential truck. It's a big ticket item, make sure it's been done.

'96 also had a Rotoflex rear coupler (instead of Hookes joints) and those can fail.

'97 came with a new release of GEMS that should prevent the sticking valves issue... but make sure it's not a '96 *called* a '97 because it was built in December or something.

I believe the '94 and '95 had the 3.5L engine, and as far as I know they don't really have ANY issues other than those common to all Rovers: keep your lubes fresh and clean and you'll run nearly forever with some regular maintenance.

Lucas vs. Bosch: I'm happy as a clam at high tide with my Lucas electrics (take THAT, Lord Lucas!) they've never failed me, and the weirdnesses are manageable.

SI vs. SII drivetrain: I prefer the SI drivetrain with its quaint swivel housings and zillions of moving parts. Call me twisted. I'll never lose a wheel bearing or CV joint either. The '96 has the strong halfshafts and you can pick up Detroit and TruTrac lockers for not too much money, and make it unstoppable...and still driveable on the street. Plus that cabin-selectable center diff lock is sure nice.

Don't worry too much about the miles. At 82k miles my '96 still drives, feels and operates like a new truck. It is simply unbelievable how nice and tight and clunk-free everything is, considering the HARD life my truck lives.

Alternators, ABS pumps and power steering pumps are all big-ticket items on Rovers. They seem to go about 80-100k miles and then die. See if those have been replaced before you buy your potential truck.

If your seller will allow it, drain one of the swivel balls (have some 90w with you to refill it) and see if it's milky white. If it is, the breather is plugged and likely your diff and swivels have moisture in them... not good.

Check the brake rotors for gouges and to see if they've been replaced. They're pretty soft and will last 80-100k as well, and will develop some impressive plateaus where the metal wears down relative to the hub. How are the pads?

Good luck!

burosky · May 2003

Just wanted to share this with people in this forum so they don't make the same mistake I did. First I want to preface this by saying that I am totally mechanically challenged. Recently, my Disco needed to have the brake rotors and pads replaced. Since the dealer was going to charge me close to $1200 to have all the pads and the rear rotors replaced, I decided to shop around for a better price. I did find a local shop that told me they can replace all the pads plus the front and rear rotors for $800 using genuine Rover parts. Blinded by the $400 difference, I went with the local shop. Before doing the job, the mechanic suggested to just have the front and rear rotors resurfaced. Since this dropped the price further down to $650, I decided to go for it. BAD move! The first week was good. However, after that, the brakes started to squeak. Worst, it squeaked while driving and only stopped when I hit the brakes. I took it back to the shop. They resurfaced it once more. This again was good for a couple of days but the squeaking came back. At this point, I talked to the mechanic and told him something other than resurfacing is probably needed because I didn't think the rotors would hold up if it got resurfaced further. These trucks are heavy! He agreed. He offered to replace the rotors for free (free labor only) but I would have to pay for the parts. I surfed the net to find deals on rotors. I eventually ordered from Atlantic British. I described what happened to the guy I spoke to at AB and he said that the mechanic should not have suggested to resurface the rotors. It's a no no for these trucks. I didn't think twice to have it resurfaced because I've had that done before to my old VW Jetta and didn't have problems with it. I should have thought they were two different animals but then again remember, I'm totally mechanically challenged. Overall, even after having to buy the rotors and the extra cost for the resurfacing, I still saved about $200 compared to the dealer's price. The only difference is I probably didn't have to learn the hard way. I have to give the local shop credit though because they were very pleasant to deal with.

Sporin · May 2003

The 94 and 95 Discos have the tried and true ODB1 3.9L 182 hp V8, not the 3.5.

A good engine with few faults.

I want an early '95 specifically myself.

ejohns · May 2003

I live in GA, the Atlanta area and am looking for a good and reasonably priced repair shop. I own a '99 DII with 57K miles on it. My "Service Engine Light" has been on and of for the past week or so. Not sure what it is but want to take it in for service. Purchased an extended warranty so major parts are cover but still don't want to pay higher dealership repair costs if possible. Any suggestions?

williamk38 · May 2003

First off I would like to thank everyone here for their excellent advice and honest opinions. I have learned a lot in a short time by reading all of these posts start to finish.

Here is my situation. I posted a short post a few back but don't feel that it really expressed and depicted my scenario.

I have been driving a 1989 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ62 for the last 5 years. I bought it used from a friend of mine and the truck has been beyond all of my expectations. It has 201k and drives like it has 80k. All I have done is change the oil religiously and replaced 2 starters. That is it. It starts every time and is very good offroad. It does get miserable gas mileage. That is the only downside. I don't mind that at all though.

I am ready to upgrade and move up to a newer truck that is more roadworthy on longer trips and just plain newer. If you have ever driven an FJ62 for over a few hours you know what I mean. I had been sold on a 1999 TLC, but I stumbled across a LR Disco and my loyalties have started to sway. I drove a 2003 Disco and a 1999 TLC the other day and walked away liking the Disco better. The best way to describe it is that the Disco has a soul, just like my FJ62. The newer TLC was nice inside and drove well, but it lacked the character or heart of the older ones. It was just a nicer Tacoma or Camry inside. It left me thinking that this vehicle would start and run for a long time, but I would have no excitement every day when I drive it. I want a little passion.

The Disco on the other hand. I love the quirks, misplaced items, little cubbyholes, strange seating position and all of its oddness. It has character. I don't care that it drives like a truck. Trust me I will be taking a step up. The Premium gas with bad mileage isn't great but I don't drive many miles a year anyway. I don't care about the turning radius. I like the more powerful new engine and headlights. The cargo space sure seems to be plenty big to me. I don't know what others see that I don't.

My concern is that the thing will stay in the shop constantly and that the dealer will be a nightmare. Basically, I am scared to death by some of the posts I have read.

If it were up to you after reading my post and knowing what you know about the 2003 Disco's which would you get? they both cost about the same, the Disco will have a 4yr/50k warranty & the TLC won't.

Also, do you know how to check on Dealer Satisfaction ratings for a dealer?

Thanks ahead of time.

tincup47 · May 2003

Just an aside on the sticking valves issues. The old vehicles do have the same issue, but it doesn't make the check engine light come on. That was a result of OBDII engine misfire checking function introduced with the GEMS engine management system. The earlier pre-GEMS vehicles were OBDI and did not check for engine misfires.
Most of the sticking valve issues result in no loss of power or driveability as it doesn't take more than a couple of misfires to set the light off, they just make the check engine light come on and store the misfire code in the ECU.

letbigdogeat · May 2003

Just my two cents worth William. How many vehicles will the average person own in a lifetime? Unless your an idiot ... you buy a vehicle, take care of it, and drive it for a while. So, your going to spend a few YEARS of your life in the thing. My wife and I are new to LR, but agree with your assessment of it's "soul". We are driving three hours tonight to attend a LR Road Test Track and Crawfish boil in Louisiana tomorrow. I doubt we would ever attend a Toyota event.

denver8 · May 2003

The service engine light is an emissions light that comes on every +50,000 miles or so. It is a routine service that costs around $250.

nanuq · May 2003

Thanks for the updates! I knew the engine was a "3.something" and now it's carved in paper.

Tincup, when my valves started sticking it was VERY noticeable, as if someone had pulled off two or three spark plug wires. Enough RPM would make it perform, but it sounded funny and smelled as if it was dumping raw fuel from the exhaust. It had no power down low. None at all. I knew it was a misfire, or loss of compression.

I understand the new head design and the advent of GEMS with the 4.0 is the culprit for the sticking exhaust valves. I've never heard of it on a pre-96 Disco, and it only rarely recurs on '96s that have had the carbon cutting replacement valves put in.

William, most of the horror stories about Rovers are anecdotal. Yes British vehicles have a well earned reputation for terrible reliability. But Rover has spent untold mountains of cash to rectify the situation. Most of the stories you hear are from someone who really shouldn't be driving anything other than a Camry or Accord. These people scream "LEMON!!!" at the first hiccup or drop of oil. The rest of the world has nowhere near the fixation with perfection that North America has, and I know Rover spent WADS of money trying to meet those expectations.

Considering the sticking valves issue, Rover values their customers and they will replace the valves (and gaskets and springs and ECU PROMs) for free when it happens. They seem to operate with integrity and they will darn well make it right when you have a problem.

Seriously, take a look at the topics here on Townhall. "Unhappy Explorer Owners." "My JGC is a POS." "Dead Durangos." etc. etc. etc... and these people are talking about BIG problems, like blown transmissions and engines. My mechanic buddy here at the Rover shop says he has NEVER replaced a transmission in a Rover, except the one (ONE) that came from the factory with no lube in it.

That's the kind of truck I'm looking for. It's got a soul, it will surprise me, it is not predictable, and it will last as long as I want it to. The hard parts beneath the surface are what matter to me, and I can live with a drop of oil or a window that only goes up and down on warm days (grin). And if I want to fix that window myself? I go to Discoweb.org and read up on it, I get a soldering iron, and she's fixed in 15 minutes. It's a simple job, but it's part of my truck and I kind of like that wart on her otherwise pretty face.

Rovers are a love/hate thing. No getting around it. That's because they're visceral and you get attached to them... they have a soul. If you're prepared for that, you'll love having a Rover.

Take a look here... Matthew said it all.

http://www.nanuq.net/Arnold's/Bob/LandRover.html

Best regards, -Bob

williamk38 · May 2003

Nanuq-

Thank you for your reply. That was the kind of reply I was looking for. As long as the major components are strong and reliable then I can live with the little things.

The Discovery is the closest thing I can find to my FJ62. I'll let y'all know how the purchase goes.

William

fdion1 · May 2003

Thanks for all the feedback. Regarding Lucas vs Bosch, it depends more on how you take care of your vehicule than anything else. Bosch can fail as easily.

How does one drain a swivel ball? Maybe I should get a shop manual before I actually go and buy one of these...

Regarding mileage, I was hoping to find one with about 60K. Most vehicules in the area seem to be over 100K miles. And Disco SI from 1999, I haven't found one yet. A few SII.

I was also hoping to find one with some additional equipment already on, like a roof rack and bull bar.

There is one in the area for sale with a 5L engine, 33" tires, high lift with something like 12K miles etc. But that's not what I'm looking for. I want something I can drive in town and that my wife and kids can get in without using a ladder

I'm not in a hurry so I guess I can keep my eyes open until the right truck comes by for sale.

So what should I expect to pay for one, is the Edmunds TMV actually acurate?

Land Rover Discovery and Discovery II

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