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Acura TSX vs. Mazda6 s Grand Touring

2

Comments

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Safeway is cheaper than Albertson's.

    I went shopping at Safeway in August and the grocery bill was $42. When I went to Albertson's in November, I spent $215.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Safeway is cheaper than Albertson's.


    and your point is? How does the extra expense at Albertsons relate to the Mazda6 vs Acura debate?

    Seems to me that service costs provide a good comparison of two cars. Its also the part that most consumers foolishly don't compare or even think about. I have seen dozens of people buy cars they can barely afford only to find out that service / maintance costs are way above their budget...
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    My point is - you don't know what kinds or quantities of food I bought at each store, do you? Maybe I bought some twinkies and lunch meat at Safeway and Thanksgiving dinner for 20 at Albertson's.

    How are we supposed to know which one costs more if you don't tell us what was included in the services?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I'm 27. I have 20/15 uncorrected as well. However, acute red-green deficiency, so, no airlines for me, but yet, red lights in cars is easy for me to see. I don't understand how.

    Anywho, I am partners in a 1982 Piper Warrior II PA-28-161.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Mazdas resemble BMW's? Sorry, not seeing it. Handling, OK, at least for the RX-8 and Miata

    Look at the Mazda3 and BMW 3 series. There are close similarities.

    Yes, the RX-8 is no doubt a sports car. Not splitting hairs with you.

    I think you can throw in the MS6 in the handling group as well. It handles just as well as a 3 Series with X drive.

    For a few years now, Mazda has been referred to as the Japanese BMW. This not referring to lux features, or price though.

    Appearance is subjective. I think there are some design similarities in some of their vehicles (not all), as do many. I hear customers say it on a daily.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Interesting....I was unaware Acura's was that much more then Honda's to service. It is something that is often over looked. Acura's are a great car, in and out, no question.

    Audi is almost a G every time you bring one in as well.

    I guess if you can afford the car, you can afford the maintenance.

    My Mazda6 costs almost nothing to service. Besides the fact that I get my dealer discount, however, if I paid full price, it would still be no strain. Oil changes/ tire rotations.. not much more then that.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I may not know what kind of food you purcahsed but cars have rather similar maintance requirements...unless the car is some exotic car they all get 30K, 60K, 90K, etc.. services that are similar. According to surveys Acura is a superior quality product to Mazda...so why are the service bills so much higher for similar work??
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    OK, we're getting closer but you're still avoiding the answer. What services did your Mazda dealership perform at 30K miles? How about the Acura dealer? I bet the lists are different.

    Most dealerships have a piece of paper at the service counter that lists the services they perform at each interval, and the price they charge for the service.

    These services can vary wildly, not just from brand to brand, but also from dealership to dealership.

    Also consider how some companies reduce the cost of service to attract customers - by marketing "100,000 mile tune-up" intervals, "lifetime transmission fluid," and 15,000 mile oil change intervals.

    The manufacturer may say it's OK, but I regluarly change the fluid in my engine, transmission, differential, brakes (lines and master cylinder).

    Is Mazda service cheaper because they are performing less work, or maybe you are paying for frivolous services you should have declined at Acura? The hourly rate charged by dealerships is pretty standard, so it's probably one or the other.

    So what's the answer in your situation?
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    The answer is simple...The Acura buyers pay more for similar work. The hourly rate is higher and prices are higher. We get almost double the cost at the Acura dealership for an oil change than the Mazda store and no lack of takers either.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Correct me if I am wrong, but, last I knew you open the hood, you have a Honda...

    It's amazing the extra cost to work on it with an "A" on the grill.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Post #57 - "The avg. repair order YTD at the Acura store is $980. (highest out of 5 franchises) The mazda dealership is $280."

    Post #64 - "they all get 30K, 60K, 90K, etc.. services that are similar....so why are the service bills so much higher for similar work??"

    Post #66 - "Acura buyers pay more for similar work. The hourly rate is higher and prices are higher."


    Three posts that say the same thing - nothing. Without numbers/figures, you're just blowing hot air.

    FWIW, I just called four local Acura and Mazda dealerships (2 Acura and 2 Mazda) and the price for an oil/filter service varied by no more than $4 (between $35.99 to $39.99).
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I don't have any idea how much oil changes are in this area at Mazda dealers, but at Acura dealers, they are $19.95.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    ok its all hot air...i made it all up just to annoy you. Does that make you feel better?

    All I did was point out that our Acura buyers are paying significantly more (more than $500) per repair order than Mazda customers...read into it what you want and spin it anyway you want...

    pat...as low as $14.95 for maz, 39.95+ for Acura. When I was with Porsche we charged $299 for an oil change. Of course we flat bedded an Audi A6 to your house and picked up your Porsche. delivered it back later in the day with mobil one, a total detail and a full tank of gas..
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "read into it what you want and spin it anyway you want..."

    You're the one spinning it. I'm asking you to stop the turntable so we can read the label.

    I guess I'm the only one who is curious about a $980 Acura service that only costs $280 at Mazda. Nobody else here is even a little curious to know why there is such a large discrepancy (especially when the originator of the tidbit refuses to break down the costs after several requests)?

    Oh well, I guess if someone pays an Acura dealer $1,000 to flush coolant, check brakes, rotate tires, and inspect belts and hoses, then all it proves is that their local dealer is a crook, and they are an idiot.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    bring your Acura and Mazda's in for service and I'll will glad to break everything down..
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    You mean I have to bring the car in just to get a quote? Why not just break it down now?

    What is the price and services included in a 30,000 mile service for each?
  • abraindrainerabraindrainer Member Posts: 312
    Break it down would help consumer to be trully informed and to discriminate between the alternatives. Why would a seller of services want to do that? ;)

    Less informed consumer = more profit! :shades:
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    Comparing the TSX to a Mazda 6? Weak engine? If I had the time i'd write a book on this one. The Mazda 6 is hardly comparable to the TSX. In fact, the mazda 6 inside looks like an orange and black plastic party. I'd rather suffer a little less power than look at that horrific dash everyday. The navigation on the mazda looks like a carcinoma sticking out of the dash. I've taken many runs in the last month with v-6 mazda 6's on the road. If there is a power difference..it's interesting that the V6 can't pull away from 40km - 160km. So much for a buying a v-6. Guess it's obvious I think mazda's are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    we bought the 06 tsx 6speed w/nav in Nov. 06. That was the car of my choice. My husband gets the next new car-the end of this year. He is leaning towards either the Mazdaspeed 3 or 6. He loves the mazda-as we had a 1991 mazda MX-6 GT. When we sold it last year it had 250,000 miles on it-with the original turbo, clutch, transmission and engine. It ran excellant and still could beat other cars-it was fast. We got $5,000 for it. The new owners painted it and put new seats and a new radio. It looks fabulous.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    My husband gets the next new car-the end of this year. He is leaning towards either the Mazdaspeed 3 or 6.

    Both are a ton of fun. I prefer the Mazdaspeed6 over the Mazdaspeed3 b/c of the AWD and interior fit and finish.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    My husband is leaning towards the 6 at this present time but that could change by the end of the year. The mazda dealers do not have any 3's so they want him to put down a deposit and wait. We do not buy until we can try it out and definitely will not pay over sticker price like they want.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    There are some screaming incentives on the MS6 right now.

    2006 models have $4750 customer cash, 2007's have $1000 customer cash. Mazda is also advertising a 299/mo 27 month lease with $2299 down (includes 1st months payment).

    Invoice on an '07 Sport is $26,500. $500 over invoice minus $1000 rebate equals $26,000. That's a lot of car for the money. If you can find a left over '06, you're looking at closer to $23,000!
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    leasing is definately out for us and we put on alot of miles on our cars (25,000-30,000 a year) two months ago we made an offer for one of the 3 06 white mazdaspeed 6's the local dealer had on their lot. they refused saying they wanted $24,700.00 for them. They are still sitting in their lot. We are in no rush. we told them when they lower the price give us a call. would you believe they still have a brand new 05 mazda on their lot
  • leftfrankleftfrank Member Posts: 6
    That $4750 cash back on the 2006's: is this applied to MSRP, or to whatever final price you've negotiated with the dealer (let's say around invoice, for example)?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Incentives come from the factory, independent of the price you negotiate with the dealership. Don't pay the dealer more money because you're getting a rebate - $500 over invoice is plenty of dealer profit on this car.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Just a question, and don't get defensive but, who are you to say what you think a dealer should and should not make?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "who are you to say what you think..."

    Well, I could say what I don't think, but then I'd be lying. ;)

    Seriously though, with one exception, I've NEVER paid more than 2% over invoice for a new car. Why start now?
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    $500 over invoice is plenty of dealer profit on this car

    $500 over doesnt = $500 profit. That only applies if there are zero expenses. In a real world dealership $500 in net profit actually requires apx $1800 in gross profit.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    That's what MACO, holdback, etc. are for.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Holdback is to pay off the interest a dealer has to pay on the car before a customer takes delivery. 99% of dealers do not own their inventory outright. Basically, the holdback is already spent.

    If you can negotiate a 2% over invoice deal, more power to ya.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Depends on how long the car sits on their lot.
  • maximafanmaximafan Member Posts: 592
    The Mazda3 has always reminded me of the BMW 3 series. I've often said this to people who were looking at cars in this class and this type of gas mileage but can't afford a BMW.
    I usually tell them about the Mazda3 and why I think it's a great buy and such and such, and I usually end it with, "it kind of looks like a
    BMW." Or who knows? Maybe it's because of the
    red dash instrumentation.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/2007/200706/070612.html

    Mazda Awarded First Place in Auto Bild Magazine’s “Quality Report” for the Third Year Running

    HIROSHIMA, Japan— Auto Bild, Germany’s largest car magazine, has ranked Mazda in first place in its highly respected “Quality Report” for 2007, which was published on June 8. This was the third straight year that Mazda has been awarded first place in this annual report.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The Mazda6 sold in Germany is made in Japan and the Mazda6 sold in USA is made in Michigan. There may be major differences in quality between assembly plants.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    Nope!

    The build quality is identical. I can attest to it since I owned both a made-in-japan Mazda Protege and Michigan built MAzda6, both over 4 years / 65000 miles.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The build quality is absolutely not identical.

    I can attest to this as I own a Hiroshima built Protege and a Flat Rock built Mazda6. :surprise:

    While they are both silver, the resemblance ends there. The Protege has better build quality.

    We do not share the same anecdotal experience chikoo.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I own a Flat Rock built 2005 Mazda6 (4cyl w/ leather, moon, Bose), and my brother and best friend own a Japanese built Mazdaspeed6. Same build quality. Actually, most of the parts for the U.S. built Mazda6 come from Japan. I believe the body molds come from Japan, and the metal is stamped here. Interior materials come from Japan as well. Engine is from the Mazda plant in Mexico, and tranny comes from Japan.
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    So, I guess the VW built in germany is the same as the VW built in mexico? God I hope not, sounds so much better to say my car was built in Germany - rolls of the tongue better. Sorry, had to change the subject from mazada. The 'zoom zoom' was enough for me to stay clear.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Actually, most of the parts for the U.S. built Mazda6 come from Japan. :sick:

    It is absolutely false to state that most of the parts for the U.S. built Mazda6 come from Japan.
    The Mazda6 built in US has greater than 75% domestic content. It qualifies as a domestic due to it's high content of US parts.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    No, it is not greater then 75%, it is MAX 65%, as stated on the window sticker. It does not say what parts come from U.S./Canada. Also, percentage means total of overall parts, and is not specific. As I said, the body is stamped and built here. The interior materials are IDENTICAL to the Japanese built Mazdaspeed6, with the cloth seats, and carbon like dash trim from the Speed being the exception.

    Would you count the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord or Subaru Legacy as domestic since they are all built here?
  • contraljcontralj Member Posts: 2
    Stumbled across this thread while researching my own 6 vs TSX dilemma. Now that we know the pros and cons, let's throw price into the mix.

    I found a 2007 Mazda6 S sport (automatic, leather, heated seats, sunroof, no spoiler and no fancy headlights) with 250 miles (yes 2-5-0; pre owned) for $20,400.

    The other option in the same price range is a 2004 TSX with 43k miles, manual tran, no navi, for $18900. I love manual transmissions.

    I know the TSX is a "nicer" car but then again I'd have to drive the Mazda for 3 years until I reached that same mileage number. Plus I get a new car warranty left on the 6.

    Guys help me out, I need a car! Thanks fellas.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    as a lover of manual transmission cars I would end up being unhappy with the mazda-not the car itself the fact it is automatic. If if were MT the choice would be a easy one.If you look you probably can get an 04 MT tsx/w nav for that amount or maybe less.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Have you been able to find a 6 with a manual?
  • contraljcontralj Member Posts: 2
    Well, I thought that maybe I'd be ok with the autostick on the Mazda as a compromise? It's funny, the first car I test drove on this journey was a 4-cyl Mazda 6 and since it was manual I thought it was fun as all get-out to drive. So that's a factor, but not a deciding one.

    Anyway, let's just forget about the transmissions for a while; all other things being equal which would you go with?

    I drive the TSX later tonight; only drove one thus far vs. about 4 or 5 flavors of the Mazda6. Maybe one more spin in the TSX will help me decide either way.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    the o4 tsx is the first production year on that model so it has some problems. go to the tsx club forum to read what owners have to say. I own an 06 tsx which has more goodies on it- memory seats, power seats for both driver and passenger and more. I do love the car but we also had luck with the mazda- a 1991 mx-6 gt. sold it last year with 250,000 miles with the original turbo, clutch, engine and it ran excellant. our choices when deciding on our car purchase were a mazdaspeed 6 or the tsx. the dealer had one ms 6-no sunroof, no nav and it was silver. I wanted red,sunroof and nav so I bought the tsx. good luck with your decision-both are great cars
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Anyway, let's just forget about the transmissions for a while; all other things being equal which would you go with?

    Well, I can't give you an answer to that without being unbiased, since I'm a VERY happy owner of a '04 Mazda6S with a V6 and manual. With over 54K miles, the only issue has been a faulty gas cap that tripped a Check Engine Light, replaced under warranty. I still smile when I walk out to my car every morning, and I plan to well after the car hits 100K miles.

    I did test-drive the TSX a few times, and it was a very nice car, especially with the 6-speed. I couldn't swallow the $26.5K price for a 4-cylinder though, compared to a V6 that I got for $4K+ less than that.

    My opinion? Don't settle for the automatic if a manual is essential for you (as it was for me). BTW, a 4-cylinder Mazda6i can be had with a manual for the same price as the used 6 (or even less), brand new...
  • waygrabowwaygrabow Member Posts: 214
    They are both good cars. When we shopped for my wife, the finalists were the TSX, Mazda6, and Audi 4. We eliminated the TSX (2004 model) because the front passenger seat wasn't right (I think it was kinda low) and the dealership had an attitude ("if you are lucky we will sell you one at list plus price"). We eliminated the Mazda6 (2004 also) because the interior looked cheap. When I shopped for a new car for myself, I went to the MazdaSpeed6; less expensive than the TSX with as many goodies as the Audi. But again, they are all good cars; any particular feature may be critical for you. That 6 speed on the TSX was about the smoothest I have ever shifted.
  • dynatsx1dynatsx1 Member Posts: 10
    I test drove both a V6 Mazda6 with manual before deciding on purchasing my TSX with manual. I thought the Mazda6 was a good car, but if you are a manual transmission lover, there really is no comparison in the shift action of the two cars. The TSX has a great shifter (as I'm sure you've read and experienced), but the mazda6 shifter was closer to a truck I used to drive for work than the TSX - really notchy and a lot of play in the clutch. On the other hand, if you could live with an automatic, I'd go with the 6 - the auto on the TSX significantly diminshes the power and "fun ratio" of the car.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    i agree with you 100%-i was not impressed with the way the mazdaspeed 6 shifted. the tsx is smooth and easy. I thought I could live with an automatic 4 years ago-WRONG- went back to manual.
  • cnybrocnybro Member Posts: 29
    I was in the same position back in late 2004. I loved the TSX with the stick, but it was like $28K. Went over to Mazda and really liked the 6s Sportwagon and settled with the autostick tranny. What pushed me to the Mazda was a $6,500 rebate paying $21.5K total. I couldn't justitfy the price difference for the TSX. As others said, if you can get that price lowered on the used TSX by another $1K then I would go for it. It's a higher quality vehicle and you won't regret it. To this day I walk by TSX's sometimes wishing I had bought it.
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