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Comments
Your insurance company expects you to operate under the same principle. If your car is damaged in an accident, you can't sit at home, lose your job, then expect the insurance company to make you whole again. You are obligated to mitigate your damages by finding another way to work.
Here's what I did. The problem was diagnosed at a local shop not a dealership. I was given a cost of $2000 for the repair.
I came home and researched the problem on the Internet and found out how common this problem is. I called the dealership where I bought my car and asked to talked to the service manager. I told him I was the latest victim of the CR-V air conditioner compressor problem and asked him how they are handling it. He said they'd have to look the car over before they could decide how to proceed. I let him know I was aware this was a common problem (which he denied) and I knew about this website and carsurvey.com where there are over 65 pages of comments about the problem. I told him I expected the repair to be done at no cost to me. He said that would depend on mileage and if I've kept to the maintenance schedule, but usually Honda will pay for either parts or labor if they pay at all. My mileage is low for the age of the car and I have the regular maintenance done according to the owner's manual.
I was shocked when after looking at the car, they came back and said Honda would pay for it.
I think the leverage you have in getting Honda to pay is making them aware that you know your problem isn't unique and that there are many other CR-V owners who have had this problem. Its cheaper to pay off a few who make a big fuss than to have to do a recall or be hit with a class action lawsuit.
I have a 2000 CRV, and my AC compressor literally blew up in my driveway (over a year ago), with a piece just missing my husband who was trying to find the source of an awful noise. Since the car was out of warranty, I had a friend replace it (a call to a local dealer gave me a cost I couldn't afford) and he charged me his cost for the parts, so it was a good deal. But after seeing this forum I contacted American Honda and asked for a refund. They're thinking about it, and haven't said no - just asked for more documentation (I still have the bad one, so I sent them a photo of it). I'm hopeful I'll get some money back and want to thank everyone who has posted their stories in this forum - I used you all as references in my letter.
I called American Honda on 10/1/2007 and got a case number. They told me to take the CRV to any Honda dealer for an evaluation. My local dealer's assistant service manager was great. He told me this was a common problem in the CRV model. I dropped the CRV off at 6:30 PM that same day (10/1/2007). I called American Honda from the dealer and told them who I was dealing with. I gave the assistant service manager the case number and he said he will let me know the findings. To my surprise he called my at 1:00 PM on 10/2/2007 to tell me the repair was done and American Honda covered the whole thing. ZERO cost to me!
That is the response I expect from Honda.
The coverage depends on:
1) Loyalty - How many Hondas you have purchased new or used before this one.
2) How nice you are
3) How nice the CSR is.
1) Loyalty - How many Hondas you have purchased new or used before this one.
2) How nice you are
3) How nice the CSR is.
That is what is so maddening about this whole thing. I think they should treat all customers the same way.
Oh, they know they have a problem. But, they are not legally obligated to do anything. It is not a safety issue, but a pure comfort issue. Cars before 1980's rarely had A/C, and only luxury cars had them.
Just the fact that they are covering partially or fully speaks volumes of their dedication to their customer. They don't have to spend a dime on these problems, but they care enough to do. Like they say: "Beggars can't be choosers" Most companies would just laugh at these phone calls complaining about vehicles way out of warranty.
I called Honda America. They said that they could not open a ticket for this; but that I needed to take it to the dealership and ask them for assistance in the repair costs. So they'll get it tomorrow. I normally take it the dealership for everything; but the tires are just so much cheaper elsewhere. I'll let you know what happens, the quote from the tire place (they do all types of repairs) was just under 2K.
Just the fact that they are covering partially or fully speaks volumes of their dedication to their customer. They don't have to spend a dime on these problems, but they care enough to do. Like they say: "Beggars can't be choosers" Most companies would just laugh at these phone calls complaining about vehicles way out of warranty."
That is actually not true. Toyota, as one example that I can speak to from personal experience, will conduct repairs in good faith on their vehicles that are out of warranty. They are not always legally obligated to do so, but they see the sense in maintaining good customer relations. Lets face it, they, as well as Honda, are in business to make money. Anyone in business knows that a good reputation is vital to continuing to maintain a competitive presence.
Most successful businesses actually do want to make their customers happy, while of course maintaining a healthy profit. They do not view their customers as "beggars", by the way.
Loyalty keeps coming up in these situations.
Honda Customer Relations
I'll be looking for a new car in the spring, and the Pilot is high on my list, so I hope they come through..... I will state here that I haven't bought a Ford in 20 years because they wouldn't even discuss a problem that the dealer couldn't fix - Honda has always been much more customer-focued (IMO) which is why I've kept returning.
Repost:
Had the same problem as all the others with a 2002 CRV. Honda paid for the parts but not the labor. Escalated to Bernardi Honda dealership owner, dealership service manager and as we have seen in other cases the buck ends up at Honda America rep - in this case Matt.
Matt can't "do anything further" for me and I asked how what appears to be an endemic problem with CRVs (and the only significant problem being discussed in the forums I have seen) can be escalated within Honda. He said that if "a lot of people" call American Honda about their problem then it might get enough attention for them to consider addressing it more broadly.
So, call 1-800-999-1009 and ask that this problem be escalated within Honda corporate. Also suggest telling every Honda CRV owner you encounter about this issue.
I told the various service managers that there were approx 100 new posts a month on this site about this problem and that was just the people who took the time/effort to post. Wonder what the real incidence level is of this problem? I also told them that this was THE problem being reported for CRV's - not a lot of noise on any other problems which made it even more amazing that it wasn't being addressed at the corporate level.
Take a few minutes and call Honda America (1-800-999-1009)and make sure they know of your problem - if there is enough noise made then perhaps they will do the right thing someday. Those of us who have already had it might benefit and it would help those who will have it in the future.
My CR-V is my 3rd Honda, and I've got over 100k miles on it now. We just did the brakes (1st time), the timing belt, and I'm getting a rattle from the heat shield but this car has had far fewer problems than my son's much newer Ford. I'm starting to check out new cars now - will be buying in the spring - and the Pilot is high on my list. Honda's loyalty to me will certainly be a factor in my decision.
The Gen 2 has a timing chain, is that what you meant, or are you speaking of the Gen 1 timing belt?
Has anyone else heard of this ????
My question is what parts of the USA are these compressors going bad, and is there any credibility to what this person told me. I asked him if there was a recall and he assured me there was not any recall on my vehicle with the A.C. compressor.
Maybe more people who have not had this happen to them call Honda and inquire as i did . If they know they have an issue and CRV owners are aware of it possibly some action may be taken by Honda in a form of a recall and we can all feel better !
Has anyone else heard of this ????
My question is what parts of the USA are these compressors going bad, and is there any credibility to what this person told me. I asked him if there was a recall and he assured me there was not any recall on my vehicle with the A.C. compressor.
Maybe more people who have not had this happen to them call Honda and inquire as i did . If they know they have an issue and CRV owners are aware of it possibly some action may be taken by Honda in a form of a recall and we can all feel better !
I think we have dwetermined a while back that all of the A/C compressor failures were in Japan made CR-V's. UK made CR-V's were spared.
Look at your VIN number, and if the first letter is J, then it was made in Japan. If the first letter is S, then it was made in UK.
AH called me back and told me that they could not locate my VIN# in their system. Repeated attempts proved unsuccessful. I told them my car was from Canada, and then they told me that since my car was Canadian, then that's why the car was not in their system and that I should call Honda of Canada and try my luck there. So I did. H of C was able to locate my cars VIN# in their system. They asked if I bought the car in the US and if the majority of the driving was done in the US, to which I said yes to both questions. They said that since the car was purchased in the US, it voided any warranty, except for safety and recall items.
So, Honda could not help me. I was on my own.
I had made an appointment with my local dealer before I knew I would not be covered. This dealer had given me bad advice when my AC first went out. It was making a grinding noise, but no oil had leaked. They told me that they had a car into their service center the week prior, and that they took the car for a drive and the noise just "went away". They advised I do the same and see if the noise just "went away". BAD ADVICE! I trusted them and took the car for a spin with the AC on, and that's when the compressor let go. What if the compressor was fine and it had just been the clutch that was bad? May have saved me some money. Anyway, since Honda wasn't going to help and since they had given me bad advice, I decided to try my luck elsewhere.
I had heard about a local independent shop a few years ago that had a very good reputation for fixing Hondas. I googled them - http://www.mainstreetautoworks.com/. I read some testimonials, not on their site but other places on the web, and decided to give them a shot. I was given a quote of $1100 within 5 minutes of explaining my situation. I soon scheduled an appointment, brought the car in and had it back the next day. They replaced my compressor, clutch, and some other misc parts, flushed, vacuumed and recharged the system, and did it for slightly less than the verbally quoted amount. If anyone reading this lives within 50 miles of Monroe, WA, I highly recommend you check out Main Street Autoworks in Monroe to get your Honda or Acura fixed. They are great!
Sidenotes - Mine was the first CR-V they had seen the AC compressor fail on. I guess AC failure is not too common around here.
They gave me back my old compressor. It had a hole in the bottom big enough to stick my finger into, with tears in the metal surrounding the hole with they metal bent outward. I'm glad the shrapnel didn't hit anything critical under the hood or worse, a person!
All parts used for the repair were genuine Honda parts, and are covered by the 12 month / 12000 mile warranty.
My car has about 89000 miles on it.
If anyone wants a detailed list of what I had done and what it cost, post it here and I will try to respond.
James
___________
CR-V and Lexus usually are not cross-shopped. I would think Acura and Lexus are comparable.
It was a belt, and as I recall the documentation said it needed to be replaced between 95K and 105K miles. A chain sounds like a better design. There were other belts that were replaced at the same time.
BTW, Honda sent me a check for my out-of-pocket expense on my AC compressor. This took several phone discussions and faxes to document the problem and the fix over about 5 weeks(I didn't have it fixed at Honda because I hadn't seen this forum then), but I stuck with it and they came through. Someone posted that the AH rep said he hadn't heard of a problem - that's BS, so don't give up. I ate the cost of my repair labor, but that's because a friend did the work and I didn't have a receipt....I think in the end Honda may have negotiated a partial, but I'm very happy with what I got.
Sorry, I have to disagree there based on my personal experience. I have owned three Camrys, and all of them gave me problems. Then I went to the CR-V and it had no problems at all.
I know their reputation, but I won't buy one from them...
That's when I've started looking online if others had that same problem and found this thread. Then I've called Honda. The rep (I must admit very professionally) avoided any far reaching questions on the matter. She only told me that there is no recall, and if I want to be considered for Honda "assistance" I must go to a Honda dealer, get an estimate, and then Honda will decide if they would pay any part of that.
At the dealership they did not rush to tell me that they are dealing with this issue on a regular basis. But when asked did not deny it either. They confirmed that Honda will probably pay some part of the bill, but they have to contact district manger who makes the decision. After taking the system apart they found metal shavings everywhere and quoted very close to $3000 ($2080 parts, $680 labor, $240 taxes) for the replacement of the entire A/C system.
After speaking to that district manager they said that Honda would pay 75% of that so my price would be $750 all in.
I've figured out that by getting parts online, taking the car to an independent shop, and asking them to reuse whatever may be reused I could cut the total bill to maybe $1800. But then Honda would probably refuse to cover 75%, and I would end up wasting time and not saving any money. So I decided to give them OK to start the job.
I just hope this new compressor was not made by the same supplier. And I was so fond that my CR-V was Japanese made, not British made! Oh well...
Today I left my CRV to get the fan motor replaced. This afternoon I received a call from the service department telling me they replaced the motor, but the fan still doesn't work. They asked me to leave it until tomorrow and they will have a diagnostician look at the problem. They did tell me I would not be charged for the diag.
I mostly drive within my very small town and only occasionally do I get out of town with it. I get great gas mileage, smooth ride, comfortable seats, etc. etc. I am really concerned after reading of other customers' air conditioner problems. Do you have any suggestions as to what I might need to do before a final decision needs to be made? I did not purchase an extended warranty as I felt Honda had an excellent reputation and two of my children have the same CRV and have had no problems. It seems that the fan should have been covered for at least 5 years!
Thanks for any suggestions you might have!
JS
My dealer called and told me the fan motor was replaced, but still did not work. The diagnostician looked at the fan and determined it was a transistor problem. That was replaced and my car is back to being perfect! I was told the reason for no charge was due to a "one time goodwill replacement". However, it was covered under my warranty. I don't have an extended warranty.
I feel Honda was fair with me and I will certainly continue to drive Honda!!
Thanks to all of you who tried to give me advise!
I, of course, turned it off. I tried it several times after that and each time got the same sickening smell. I took the car to our local Honda dealer to have them look at it. They couldn't find the cause, so they sprayed Frigifresh(sounds like a deodorant)through HVAC Assembly. This did help some, but you can still smell the same smell, only not so strong. Has anyone else had or heard of this problem in the CRVs'??
I, of course, turned it off. I tried it several times after that and each time got the same sickening smell. I took the car to our local Honda dealer to have them look at it. They couldn't find the cause, so they sprayed Frigifresh(sounds like a deodorant)through HVAC Assembly. This did help some, but you can still smell the same smell, only not so strong. Has anyone else had or heard of this problem in the CRVs'??
When you say you "flipped the A/C on" do you mean just pressing on the A/C button, or sliding the selector to "A/C" or "Max A/C" position?
So, you press on the A/C button, without changing the air flow selector, correct?
Whatever may be lurking inside the fan housing or the ducts should have smelled without you having to press the A/C button.
I would suspect that the A/C core in the fan housing has a leak and what you smell is the ester oil and the refrigerant.
Any ideas, illuminations, etc.
1) Call Honda America Corporate and get a case #. State your case simply and diplomatically. Your tone can make or break the deal.
2) Write a letter, stating the situation, but start off with how much you value being a Honda customer. If you have bought Hondas before, tell them so. Tell them how you are grooming your kids to be Honda customers. If you get your car serviced at a Honda dealership, say so. (By the way, your "history" with Honda - former purchases, service record, etc will factor into their decision). But after you butter them up, tell them how disappointed you are that this would happen to a Honda vehicle, but that you are confident that they will maintain their reputation by helping you with this. Diplomatically point out that you have reviewed Edmunds.com, and that you were suprised to see so many posts of people with similar problems, so you are "assuming that this a defect in the manufacturing". State again how you hope to continue to be a Hoda customer....
3) Send the letter to the VP of Services at your dealership (can be found on their web-site), and another copy to your case manager at Corporate, who will have been appointed to you by this time.
4) Hope for the best. The results I have read on this problem have been varied: full payment, partial payment, no payment at all. But if you follow those steps, I think your chances will be increased.
FYI, Honda paid mine in full..
Good luck.
Thanks!
I also checked out the dealer's web page and there is no information available on who the "VP of Service" (or any other staff) might be? the only numbers listed are the sales numbers (big surprise).
I'm at a loss how to proceed w/ your advice?
Thanks, K
The first call will be uneventful. You state what happened and you get a case number. dont expect them to seem empathetic or to even ask many questions. The goal of the first call is to get a case number and a case manager assigned to you. He/she will then call you in a couple days. They will recommend that you bring the car into a dealership for analysis if you hadnt done it already..
I decided to check this site because I had luck get a reimbursement from Honda Customer Care (Corporate) when our rear differntial started groaning and moaning for the second time. It had been "repaired" by another Honda dealer in late September. Becayse of the info I found here, I was able to convince Corporate (but not our local dealer) to reimburse us for the cost of the repair.
Back to the a/c. Once again, I'm armed with info about a part/service repair failure with the original a/c servicing. I noticed on our previous repair invoice that the condenser and hoses had not been replaced (only after reading this site and rereading my repair invoice). So the new system was probably contaminated by whatever (metal shavings??) were floating around inside.
Our Honda service manager was going to check to see if there was a service bulletin on the a/c repair...after I got assertive with her about yet another a/c repair. I told her I wanted her/her manager to "go to bat" for us. We shouldn't have to be calling Honda Corporate to have Honda do the right thing.
It's midafternoon and I'm still waiting to hear from her. Meanwhile, I've printed out the comments you folks have sent in to this site to use for "ammunition" if I need it. By the way, I also had an oxygen sensor replaced in late September at the time of the first rear differential repair. Someone else mentioned in their post that they also had a o2 sensor replaced prior to a/c failure.
FYI,my VIN begins SHSR.
Will keep you posted as to my success.
This is my first Honda...and it maybe my last...
Kissey Poo
I became very assertive, :mad: quoted from posts on this site and let it be known that I was expecting Honda to make things right. The mgr. asked why I hadn't purchased an extended warranty as opposed to dealing directly with the fact that other dealers had "gone to bat" for their customers, even those with cars out of warranty, and had gotten Honda to pick up the entire tab for the repair. The end of our conversation was that he (the Mgr. of the Service Dept.) could do nothing for us.
By the time we went to pick up the car, 15 minutes later, he had supposedly called the District Level back and got agreement to provide the parts free, but we would have to foot the bill, again, for the labor. While this was some relief, we were not satisfied and let him know it to no avail. We assured him we would contact Honda Customer Care and let them know of our dissatisfaction with his efforts, with our Vero Beach, FL Honda dealer, and if we didn't get further relief, from Honda in general.
When we looked at today's invoice for the repairs, once again, the condenser and hoses had not been replaced. When I questioned the Service Dept. Mgr., quoting from this forum about the need to change the condenser and hoses, he said that changing the "drier" took care of catching the metal particles. (If that was try, why did the compressor fail again yesterday?) So I ended up with the same repair as in 2/06 and had to pay $532 in labor. Quite likely, I will end up with the same a/c problem down the road. :mad:
We haven't given up the quest for satisfaction. We will communicate with the Vero Beach Honda dealer owner letting him know that we are dissatisfied and giving him a chance to win back our business, both for servicing and buying future Hondas. Simultaneously, we will be in touch with Honda Customer Care.
As I said previously, we bought our first Honda when we purchased the '03 CR-V and it's likely to be our last. We will also convey our situation to our son who also owns a Honda (bought based on our earlier recommendation) and suggest he consider replacing his Honda before he's subject less than satisfactory customer care and failing, defective parts.
Will post any further results after the holidays. :mad:
I contacted the local Service Director, first. I was very careful to be pleasant and supportive of Honda and to present a "I Love Honda's" persona. Which is not a lie - I do love Honda's. I've had 3, my daughter had two, my sister-in-laws each bought one after I had such good luck with them, etc.
I mentioned what I'd seen on Edmond.com about the "issue with A/C's in CR-V's". Once I was able to get the American Honda corporate number I called them and got a case number. I had to explain to them what happened, how old the car was, how many miles, etc, etc. etc. But I was very pleased with the outcome.
the person I spoke to @ corporate was very pleasant, asked essentially the same questions that the Service Director asked. I gave the same answers (obviously). Within one day I heard from the "case manager" about what they had talked about with the local Honda dealer and what the local Honda dealer was willing to "do" for me.
I now have a new A/C system with a 12 month, 12, 000 mile warranty.
I'm pleased and continue to be a satisfied Honda consumer.
Good luck, K
K, glad you're satisfied. Guess I've been bitten twice now and I'm not happy!
I have had my entire A/C system replaced, every nut, bolt, tube, etc. If I have problems in the future I'll deal w/ it at that time. Till then I'm driving my Honda w/ the A/C running and I'm a happy camper.
As with all situations in life, sometimes your the cherry and sometimes your the pit. This time I was lucky.
Good luck, K