Chevrolet Malibu vs. Toyota Camry vs. Honda Accord

thegraduate · December 2009

Fair enough; back then, the Accord and Altima were in leagues of their own with 240 horse engines. Most in this field were at or below 200 horses, where the 2.4L Accord offered a very flexible (thanks to i-Vtec and a snappy transmission) 160. Time has moved on, weights have increased, and unfortunately for Accord, torque has not.

bvdj84 · December 2009

The Accord had something really going for it before they put the weight on it for the 08 model year. They should have kept a similar size and changed its design. Then, it would have gotten better mileage than the "GM" car. "Technically". It did hurt Honda when they did this. A little bit. Then again, everything else has gained weight too.

vanman1 · December 2009

Accord is about the size of an Impala and apparently it's classified as full size now.

Camry, Malibu, Fusion and Altima are all about the same size.

thegraduate · December 2009

The Accord is on the borderline, to the point that the low-end models without a moonroof are "large cars" by the EPA, those with a moonroof are "midsize."

Impalas are small/cramped inside but big outside; not nearly as space efficient as the Accord. The Accord is large, but not dramtically larger than its competitors.

bvdj84 · December 2009

See, I just don't understand why we are getting so big. Is it because people want away from big SUV's? Probably so. The Camry, especially the 2010 with its very odd grill now, its just an odd looking car. Seems to me the Camry and Accord are going so casual and odd looking. If Accord to the coupe model look, it would be ahead in the segment. The Malibu, looks nice, the rear looks odd and unfinished, smashed flat.

So all 3 cars have odd looking parts to them.

gtgtcobra · December 2009

I liked the Honda Accord up until they changed the styling in 2009. The 2009 and the 2010 Accord look ugly compared to the 2010 Camry. I think that the new 2010 Camry looks much nicer. I ended up getting the Camry because of the better styling and also because it was priced cheaper than the ugly Accord.
You are right though about the Accord and the Camry looking very casual. They are both very good utilitarian point A to point B cars. If I wanted a formal vehicle that wasn't causal I would buy a 2010 Dodge Charger R/T or a 2010 Ford Mustang. Now those are "real" cars that are very sharp looking compared to the Accord and the Camry.

dmathews3 · December 2009

and they are most likely cheaper too.

gtgtcobra · December 2009

The Dodge Charger R/T and the Mustang GT are NOT cheaper looking vehicles than the Accord and Camry. They are MUCH BETTER than the Camry. I happen to own BOTH vehicles and I also own the Camry LE and the Charger R/T and Mustang GT are much better vehicles than the Camry in performance and styling. The Camry and the Accord are just utilitarian point A to point B cars just like I mentioned in my post above. But the Accord and Camry are NOT fun cars to drive. On the other hand, the Dodge Charger R/T and the Mustang GT are most definitely very fun to drive.

dmathews3 · December 2009

Sorry for the confusion, I met cheaper to buy as you can deal on them where as Toyota thinks they don't stink and refuse to deal most of the time.

vanman1 · December 2009

Impala is a 4-5 year old model. Frond seat is fine, trunk is huge but the back seat is not very roomy. My Malibu has way more back seat room. The only Impala I looked at was an SS and it was purely for the V8.

gtgtcobra · December 2009

"Sorry for the confusion, I met cheaper to buy as you can deal on them where as Toyota thinks they don't stink and refuse to deal most of the time."

Oh Okay. Yes, you are absolutely right. It's probably much easier to get a bigger rebate on a Dodge Charger R/T or on a Mustang than it is on a Toyota. I think that there is a much bigger demand for Toyota automobiles than there are for Dodge Charger R/T's and Mustangs.

dmathews3 · December 2009

Well Americans are back to the old way of thinking as a while back CNN published the sales for the first 9 months and the number one seller was the Chevy/GMC full size truck, followed by Ford and maybe Camry, but Toyota sales are way down this year according to CNN.

avucarguy · December 2009

Those that buy Accords ans Camrys look for reliability in the long run.The Accord does have a sportier ride than the Camry. These two are 4 door family sedans that does not compete directly against the Charger and Mustang. The Charger and Mustang are better looking than Accord/Camry, but will not carry a family of 5 like mine. The Accord and Camry competes directly against the Malibu. I like the larger size of the new Accord, there is a definite size difference to the 05 Accord I used to own. But the new Accord does not appears to have as nice materials inside as the 05 Accord(too bad for Honda). Accords and Camry have never been great looking cars, but very reliable however.
I have had American cars in the past and had bad experiences with them in terms of reliability. I would pay a little more for a Japanese car now and recoup the price difference when I go to sell or trade it in 3-5 yrs down the road for another new car. I like the look of the new Malibu since it came out for 09, the 2010 Malibu with the 6sp auto with the 4cyl is a plus(rather than GM's antiquated 4sp auto). Also GM's 5yr/100K warranty is encouraging. GM vehicles reliability is still sporadic depending on which model.

dmathews3 · December 2009

You pay more for the Japanese car now over the Malibu but do you really. The Malibu is going to be a whole lot cheaper than the J car new due to dealers willing to dicker and I went through this with my friend last year with his Accord. What he paid compared to what a comparible Malibu and we took 3 year old cars and used Edmunds, Kelly and Nada guides and in the end it was a wash for the most part and in one book the Malibu would have come out ahead. I have driven both American and Foreign and have found as far as G.M. cars go I had better luck on warranty repairs with American than I did Japanese as they think nothing can ever go wrong with their car so you have to almost jump through hoops to get them to fix it. There is a guy on Camry site who has new Camry with leather seats and a thread has came loose on it and Toyota refuses to fix it under warranty. Come on a $25 repair and they are saying no. All it did was unraval a little and a good shop should be able to fix it in 5 min. Customer satifaction would have brought him back for another Camry, now he is going to sue.

imidazol97 · December 2009

>rather than GM's antiquated 4sp auto).

I don't know where you get the "antiquated" as an adjective. I suspect there's not much background on automatic transmissions, or the Honda would not be described as reliable and the Camry has had problems with shift lag in their transmissions. Check Odyssey transmission problems thread for troubles and high "repair" costs. In the past a few critiqued the 4-speed dependable GM transmission with smooth shifts and correct gearing for my 3800 motors while Honda had a 5-speed--and said GM needed more speeds (don't know why, but they seemed to subscribe to "more is better"). Now GM has 6-speed transmissions in Malibu, so Honda is antiquated with their 5-speed automatic...

:P

dmathews3 · December 2009

You can also get a 4sp tranny rebuilt of less than 1/2 of what it takes to buy a 5 or 6 sp rebuilt. And what do you really get for all this, 2 more gears that may or may not get you more miles per gal. as the overdrive in most 4 sp. are about the same as a 6 speed. What you gain for the most part in a 4 sp. is it don't downshift everytime you touch the pedal.

elroy5 · December 2009

I think the number of speeds, a transmission has, has less to do with it's drivability., than how well it's gearing and shift control match up with the engine's power curve. Many car reviews have mentioned that the Accord 5 speed always seems to be in the right gear, where as the Malibu transmission seems quick to upshift (in an effort to save gas), and while the Malibu's tranny was quick to downshift one gear (a small gust of head wind could do it), it was reluctant to downshift two gears (where the power comes in), unless you hit the floor with the accelerator pedal. The number of gears, is apparently not the be-all end-all of transmission design.

imidazol97 · December 2009

>The number of gears, is apparently not the be-all end-all of transmission design.

It was when the GM products had 4 and the Accord had 5. :mad:

dmathews3 · December 2009

I have driven a number of 6 speed cars and all of them seem to want to downshift to 5th at the least slightes hill, headwind or just a tiny push on the go pedal.

imidazol97 · December 2009

>to want to downshift to 5th at the least slightest hill, headwind or just a tiny push on the go pedal.

That's what I would expect from _any_ 6 speed because of the extremely long gearing for 5 and 6th gears.

dmathews3 · December 2009

Thats why I almost rather have a 4 speed, that and most anyplace can fix them cheaper than the others.

blue_boy · December 2009

Say 2008.

bvdj84 · December 2009

Well, the 4cyl GM engine with the 4spd transmission is nothing to get excited about at all. Jolts and shifts all wrong too.

cooterbfd · December 2009

from top to bottom???

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/24/toyota-cutting-supplier-expenses-by-30-probab- ly-means-using-ch/

mcdawgg · December 2009

"However, this 30% cut from supplier expenses is OLD news, and the reporting in this article is full of it, something that can be blamed from ripping analysis from a site like The Truth about Cars.

This supplier cost cutting started back in 2005, and its 30% reduction over an 8-year period ending in 2013. Its originally part of the CC21 initiative, Construction of Cost Competitiveness for the 21st Century, and its was recently side-tracked because of the global financial meltdown. Recently, they've restarted the initiative which is why its back in the news.

Basically it has to do with the "China Price", if suppliers are going to stay in business they need to match the price of the Chinese mfg. It not about 'cheaper parts' its about using parts more efficiently, the cost-cutting methodologies have been outlined and openly discussed for a long time, its about making cars so more parts can be shared, economies of scale, better use of materials, better design." This is also from the article - don't forget to read ALL of it.

vanman1 · December 2009

The GM 4-speed in the base cars works just fine, it's not jerky and it's proven technology, it's been around for a while. Only down side is the mileage is a little lower. The 6-speed is silky smooth in my V6 Malibu, I can not believe how smooth it is. I have not tried 6-speed / 4 so I can't say how well that combo works.

bvdj84 · December 2009

Based on your experience, you have not had jolting but I have. I came from an 06 Accord 4cyl. There is a major difference between the 4cyl GM engine and a Honda 4cyl engine. My Accord engine was smooth and powerful and had confidence! My GM engine is unpredictable, sluggish, peppy only when it wants to be, horribly programmed. Jolts and querky all the time. Apparently I am not the only one stating this, because I have been to the dealer when others were going to my same salesman, stating similar issues.

I am glad you were able to have good experiences with GM though. Just consider yourself lucky. It is certainly not the norm, otherwise GM wouldn't be in the position their in, right?...lol. But, that is separate forum.

mazda6dude · December 2009

I have a friend who has a 2008 Accord lx automatic with almost 55k. He is thinking about selling it and buying a 2010 camry LE automatic. Just wanted to get everyone's feedback on whether its a good idea or not. Thanks.

dmathews3 · December 2009

It doesn't really matter if it is a good idea or not, your friend seems to think so and that is all that counts. If it isn't a good idea, what are you going to do, nag him about it? Which will make him mad and then they may not be your friend for long. Just let it lie and tell them what a great car they got.

vanman1 · January 2010

"I am glad you were able to have good experiences with GM though. Just consider yourself lucky. It is certainly not the norm, otherwise GM wouldn't be in the position their in, right?...lol. But, that is separate forum".
------------

GM problems did not stem from todays cars, they stemmed from legacy costs, poor products in the past and poor management decisions.

Quality at GM has been on the rise for years and Buick ranks #1 in quality (JD Power). Malibu has very good quality numbers and every magazine including Consumer Reports recommend it and the car's satisfation numbers are high. I don't think I am "lucky", Malibu is a good car. The fact don't lie.

bvdj84 · January 2010

I am glad you are having a good experience with your Malibu.

malibu08 · January 2010

I am wondering if the malibu's catalytic converter problem is rare or more?
This car is less that 2 years old about 25k miles and must replace the catalytic converter - plus there are no parts. Special item order to have a part made out of the country and shipped. Warranty item thank goodness but without the car for 2 weeks, seems ridiculous. Any other malibu's with bad catalytic converter ?

berri · January 2010

Your dealer should give you a loaner. A few years ago I had a Taurus that was several years old, but still under warranty. Different problem, but It had to wait for parts and the Ford dealer gave me a loaner until they came in and the car was fixed. It is totally unreasonable to be without a car that is still under factory warranty for two weeks because GM can't deliver the part. I thought there was a "new" GM promised after the government bailed them out?

smarty666 · January 2010

this is exactly the reason I stopped buying GM vehicles after doing so for almost 40 years! my very last GM, a 2004 Malibu had major engine components fail, such as catalytic converter, power steering pump, alternator, and several other things when the car was just passed out of factory warranty and was only about 3.5-4 years old

that malibu was the final straw with me and GM; that was about the 4th or 5th GM product in a row that I was putting between 2-4k dollars in when the car was about 3-5 years old to replace things that broke or wore out under the hood

your situation has just reassured me that I made the right decision in not buying GM anymore; at the age of your malibu and the age my malibu was, you should not be having these kind of problems with a car that is still relatively young; these types of problems should not occur until the car is maybe 7-8 years old, at the earliest

I switched to Japanese vehicles and couldn't be happier and have had no problems like I did with the pontiacs, buicks, and chevys I had over the years

being that your car is an 08 and having this problems just proves to me that GM is still in the crapper and all they have done thus far is put a new face on their product but still continue with the same old crap problems under the hood

best of luck with getting your malibu fixed! in all the years I had my GM vehicles in the dealerships for service, three separate dealers in fact, I never once got a loaner car! only a shuttle service, even when it was still under warranty!

vanman1 · January 2010

smarty:

While I am sorry about the problems with your 2004 GM vehicle, the 2008+ Malibu is a very reliable car and the catalytic converter is not a common issue.

Making broad statements that Japanese vehicles have no problems is complete and utter nonsense and untrue.

bvdj84 · January 2010

I own an 08 Pontiac G6 and I also had to have my catylic converter replaced. The engine was acting very weird and sluggish. Took dealer a long time to figure it out. The part also had to be special ordered. I chose not to drive the car while having this issue and waiting for the part. I was given a loaner. The Malibu and G6 share the same engine and parts. Also, it seems as though other GM cars have had this issue. I did describe my story in the G6 forum.

At this time, it is better, but now have the issue with the transmission being jerky and slipping in 1 gear. At this time, I have chosen to be quiet about the issue, its already been brought up, but if I state it again. It could hurt my trade in value with my dealer in which sells other NON GM cars. Not my problem. I now have 26,000 miles on it. I will trade in the Spring.

believe my car is about 60% lemon, according to the issues had thus far.

smarty666 · January 2010

your absolutely right, I did tend to make a broad statement about Japanese cars, but the data still shows that the Japanese cars have best reliability and hold their value the best of all the car manufactures

I never once said in my post that Japanese vehicles do not have any problems; I said that the ones I have had since switching away from GM have not given me any troubles like the GM vehicles I had over the years; you need to start listening and reading more carefully to what people said; I'm not saying that there aren't problems with Japanese cars, even the more efficient and reliable automakers have at least 1 or 2 cars per 100 they produce that are easier put together wrong or have problems

I only commented because the guy with the 08 malibu having problems with the catalytic converter just brought back many memories to me of the stuff I went through for over 20 years with the GM cars I had; you might be one of the lucky ones that has a malibu that has had no problems, consider yourself lucky and enjoy your car!

smarty666 · January 2010

I will say this, their has been some improvement in GM since I stopped getting GM vehicles but I have been really impressed with direction, progress, and quality that FORD is heading in; I would say right now that Ford is about 5-8 years ahead of GM

You can understand that after having GM vehicles for almost 30 years, each one having major problems that costs me a fortune to maintain and keep up, it is going to take me awhile to ever even consider going back to GM or Ford

I am going to give Ford and GM another 10 years before I would even consider looking at getting a vehicle from anyone of them because I think it is going to take that long to really see if things have changed for the better! I am optimistic, at least with Ford, that they will make a comeback!!

dmathews3 · January 2010

I have a question for you. Wife had a 07 Caddy STS with Nav. In the 39 months that she drove it outside of a recall on a rear seal that was prone to leak (hers didn't) she only had 2 issues with the car. Both were with the Nav Unit. First one was the display was very dim when it was in the 20's or colder, the other was the Nav. couldn't find the sats which gave a red circle with the dia. line through it as in NO SMOKING signs have. Now do I blame G.M. for this or do I chalk it up to the German Company who made the Nav Unit and its 1/2 partner Toyota? I guess I just have to wonder who made the cad. Converters on the car you are refering to. :confuse:

elroy5 · January 2010

Now do I blame G.M. for this or do I chalk it up to the German Company who made the Nav Unit and its 1/2 partner Toyota?

I'm sure that German company is not the only company that makes Nav units. GM had choices. Cars are made mostly of parts bought from suppliers, so they have to choose wisely. If my Delphi alternator goes out, do I blame Delphi, or the car company who bought the inferior part, and installed it in my car? If my headlight is poorly designed, and lets water enter it, do I blame Stanley (the maker of the headlight), or the car company, for buying the inferior part? GM is responsible for the entire car, not just the parts they manufactured themselves (which are very few). :confuse:

dmathews3 · January 2010

You just said that Toyota is a inferior company. So I sure hope you didn't buy a Toyota SUV.

bvdj84 · January 2010

I think your statement nailed the point exactly!! A company has the right to pick and choose the best parts for its products. The issue with GM, is that it seems to be picked sub par parts that do not last as long.

Then again, the New Accord seems to be having brake wear issues and VCM issues. Perfect? No! Not at all! The Camry has cheap interior parts? Good choice for Toyota? No!

GM to start picking better, quality part, than you could perhaps see a much better product that lasts longer. Holds better value!

imidazol97 · January 2010

I disagree that GM picked subpar parts. I doubt that Honda says to a supplier that they want the subpar parts for their brakes on Accord. I doubt that Toyo says they want subpar parts for the electronic drive-by-wire system on their Camry and others that give them unintended acceleration.

Catalytic converters may have a failure rate that is low and occasionally one fails early, much like automatic transmissions. But as most auto mechanics taking calls on radio auto repair shows here say, "Catalytic converters don't commit suicide, they usually are murdered."

dmathews3 · January 2010

I think the bottom line is EVERY car dealer I have ever drove by has a fairly large garage with a bunch of stalls and I bet they aren't all just doing oil changes. So no matter what car you buy there is always that chance that something will go wrong or there wouldn't be garages. G.M. can't be to bad as they have out sold Toyota and Honda every year but one.

elroy5 · January 2010

There are many factors that go into the decision to buy this or that part. Failure rate, cost, and the company behind the part. Sometimes, a company will knowingly use an inferior part, because of it's association with that company (Delphi), or because of lower costs. If you want to sell your car for less, you have to get the parts for less.

smarty666 · January 2010

thats a bunch of BS that GM didn't use substandard parts; why the heck to you think that both GM and Chrysler had to declare bankruptcy and Ford did not; thats one of the many reasons why GM was in the crap hole that they are in, because they used cheap parts, etc to build their cars; its because GM and Chrysler lived in stupidity and denial for years that there was a problem with the quality, reliability, and resale value of their vehicles

thats why every GM car I had that I had to take in and get major mechanical and engine parts replaced at 3-4 years old, the service people and advisers acted as if it was normal wear and tear on a car and IT'S NOT- it was utter denial of a problem

Ford saw many years before GM and Chrysler did that their products were of poor quality and reliability and started making plans and objectives to turn their company around ahead of time, unlike GM and Chrysler, and thus they didn't need a bailout through bankruptcy

Hopefully, though with GM they eventually will be able to make a turn around by shrinking their product lines and getting the message to build better quality and more reliable cars - only problem is it is going to take another 5-10 yrs to see if GM really is on the right track because they only just recently restructured in the last 2 years so its going to be a wait and see game if their products remain reliable and hold their value in 4-5 years from now! hopefully, they will! if the new Buick lacrosse and Cadillac products are an indication of their change then GM is heading in the right direction for sure!

dmathews3 · January 2010

and your expertise in this matter is? For a company that is so bad as you think and thinking is cheap and so is talk when you can't back it up, anyway then why is G.M. still selling more cars than Toyota. Toyota had a fluke and out did them just barely one year but even in bankruptcy they still out sold Toyota. I also find it funny their poorly made cars still keep showing up in the J.D. Powers and even CP has shockingly made good comments on some of their vehicles. You can talk the talk but you still can't back any of it up like why does G.M. out sell Toyota who is supposedly one of the best even though they have what recalled now over 6 million vehicles with frames rusting out on their trucks in which this is the 2nd time plus gas pedal problems. I'd think they would have learned their lessons the first time on frame rust but I'd take a bad convertor on a G.M. car anyday before I'd want a rusted out frame. At least I can still safely drive it. But no one will convince you otherwise because of some bad experiences with G.M. which I'm sure was all their fault and you did nothing to help cause any of those problems. :sick:

vanman1 · January 2010

"thats a bunch of BS that GM didn't use substandard parts; why the heck to you think that both GM and Chrysler had to declare bankruptcy and Ford did not; thats one of the many reasons why GM was in the crap hole that they are in, because they used cheap parts, etc to build their cars; its because GM and Chrysler lived in stupidity and denial for years that there was a problem with the quality, reliability, and resale value of their vehicles"
---------------------------------------------------

"Substandard Parts" have virtually zero to do with GM/Chrysler bankruptcy. To say so is pure ignorance. Every company has part failures and design flaws, look at Toyota recalling millions and million of cars right now to replace gas pedals and many people think there is also a problem with the computer that controls the acceleration.

berri · January 2010

Substandard may be too harsh a word, but many D3 cars seemed inferior a few years ago. The interiors just felt cheap and it seemed like you had more problems in the 50-60K mileage range than on some of the better imports. I think D3 had too much focus on cost cutting in both engineering and purchasing. I think some of the new models are getting much more comparable though, although it will take a few years to know for sure I guess. Chrysler/GM BK had a lot of factors, but undesirable and unreliable cars were part of the equation in my opinion.

cooterbfd · January 2010

"......"Substandard Parts" have virtually zero to do with GM/Chrysler bankruptcy. "

AND, the lack of substandard parts have even LESS to do with Ford not declaring bankruptcy. Smarty, did you realize that Ford is living on a $39 Billion LINE OF CREDIT???

Chevrolet Malibu vs. Toyota Camry vs. Honda Accord

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