Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
What's It Worth in Today's Market
Mr_Shiftright
Member Posts: 64,481
This is a topic for those of you who may now own
or may be shopping for a "classic" car, and would
like to know what the approximate "real money" Fair
Market Value might be.
If you're think of a particular car rather than
just general curiosity, you might want to refer to
the Guidelines for judging the condition of a
"classic" car, since the actual condition can
drastically affect value.
Guidelines for Judging Condition and Value: Topic
5
By "Fair Market Value", most appraisers, insurance
companies and legal/tax agencies mean this:
"The price paid by a willing and knowledgeable
buyer to a seller who is not under duress"
In other words, the Fair Market Value cannot be
either a distress sale or a price gained by
deception, etc. Also, the Fair Market Value cannot
be determined from asking prices in newspapers or
car magazines, but rather from actual sales.
or may be shopping for a "classic" car, and would
like to know what the approximate "real money" Fair
Market Value might be.
If you're think of a particular car rather than
just general curiosity, you might want to refer to
the Guidelines for judging the condition of a
"classic" car, since the actual condition can
drastically affect value.
Guidelines for Judging Condition and Value: Topic
5
By "Fair Market Value", most appraisers, insurance
companies and legal/tax agencies mean this:
"The price paid by a willing and knowledgeable
buyer to a seller who is not under duress"
In other words, the Fair Market Value cannot be
either a distress sale or a price gained by
deception, etc. Also, the Fair Market Value cannot
be determined from asking prices in newspapers or
car magazines, but rather from actual sales.
Tagged:
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I used to own a Morgan, 1957 +4....really fun, and great-looking, but a "crate" through and through...a very primitive car, like it was made in the 1920s. Only for diehards, like Nigel Shiftright. I'd like to drive a Plus 8 sometime, if anybody out there has one.
2. Are we talking about the same Morgan? Do you understand that the one I refer to has integrated fenders and looks like absolutely no other Morgan before or since? It looks more like an Italian design of the period. In fact, it might be. I guess I'll have to get off my lazy posterior and go loo it up. Jeez, all the other lazy dullards get all kinds of details. What do I get: "Oh, I'd guess around..."
3. Alright, you get another shot. Lancia B20. Current prices, availability, all market data. How many were made, what years, how many imported, etc.
I see your point about "not worth much". Isn't it true though that virtually anything that outlasts its expected life by a zillion years is destined to appreciate monetarily? I mean, look at Model T's. Never was there a less aesthetically interesting or less esoteric object, but surely a pretty clean, original one is worth a few times what it was 40 yrs ago, which is a few times what it was worth 40 yrs earlier.
I'm not arguing. I'm curious about the concept of value. Obviously an object is worth what someone's willing to pay for it. Another factor for me is that when an object is underappreciated, it actually interests me more. This could work in my favor financially, or it could work against me, though any of the cars I'd buy (if I could buy cars), I'd buy to keep, not to trade, so it might be a moot point.
So you did have the right Morgan in the first place. Beg pardon, Nige. Shoulda known. As far as how the thing looks, I'll have to go look it up and see if I really do think it's pretty. Maybe I was just amazed to see it, and in my memory that surprise turned to a memory of it as a beautiful car.
Now, to me, an Alfa GTV looks good from any angle, and even looks good stripped to bare metal in a wrecking yard, sans trim or tires or anything. The shape is just "right".
Oh, Model Ts...well, I think it works like this...if the car were something special when it was made, it increases in value and is treasured...if the car was just pedestrian or utilitarian, it will grow in value slowly as it ages, sort of keeping up with inflation. So a Model T goes up 15 times in value in 90 years but a Mercedes Benz Gullwing goes up 40 times in value in 40 years. And a Delorean is worth, at best, about what you paid for it, 17 years later...so with inflation, you've actually lost quite a bit on it. Some cars, like Ferrari Testarossas from the late 80s and 90s, haven't hit bottom yet, still dropping from their list prices.
Why the various results....I think because only one of those cars mentioned was all three of the follwing a) low production, b)exceptional in its day, either in engineering and stylng c)always revered and admired since the day it was built.
So, Model T is b only, sometimes c, sometimes not c.
Delorean is kind of a, a little touch of b for ten minutes.
Gullwing is a solid a, b and c.
So that's how I think it works, more or less, regarding the idea of "value"....beyond the hype and the prejudice of the mind, there is some demonstrable beauty or characteristic...another example, a beautiful and intricate wooden ship model, perhaps worth less today than the most collectible plastic Barbie doll, will be worth lots more someday.
They say that 23 of the 26 made are known to still exist, most of em in the states.
You're right, the Plus 4 Super Sport is very nice.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So how about a nice TVR Tuscan: Cost? Availability?
The 4 and 6 cyl versions were supposedly better balanced, but they weren't cheap and didn't really offer anything over a Triumph. A Lotus Elan would beat one like a gong for about the same money. Then again, the only reason the Lotus had mirrors was so you could watch parts fall off (not that I'd kick one out of my garage, mind you).
If it were extremely nice and totally original (no repaint or an extremely professional repaint in the same color) and if it were NOT a European model, asking would be about $25K and selling anywhere from $18-25K depending on where you live, time of year, color of car, etc.
Exceptional cost-no-object restorations can bring $30K...the average good driver, with a few door dings and minimal wear and tear bring $16K-18.
I hope that helps.
Mr. Shiftright
Let me try this again. Earlier this week I posted this inquiry and then the system forgot my password and I could not log on to see any responses. I recently inherited my father's pride and joy. A 1978 Cadillac Seville four door sedan, red with red leather interior, fully loaded including the A/M-F/M 8-TRACK/CB radio. The car has been pampered since new, has been garage kept and fussed over constantly. It has 17,000 original miles on it and still has most of the original tune-up parts in the engine. I just last month replaced the factory battery. The car looks, runs and drives like it rolled off the showroom floor this morning.
Any idea what it would be worth on today's market should I decide to sell?
This car really doesn't have any collector car value so I think the best approach would be to view it as an exceptionally nice used car that would probably bring a premium over high "book". If we presume a book value of around $3,500,it is possible you might get 10-20% over that from that very special buyer.
The problem with extremely low mileage cars is that if the person pays an extra premium for the low miles, then he/she can't drive it or the miles will build up and their investment goes down. And if it isn't a collector car, they won't find many opporunities or invitations to display it. So the only real alternative is to drive it, and then of course why pay extra for the low mileage? So you see the problem.
A further difficulty is that often such low miles are not a mechanical asset, since seals dry out and internal mechanical parts deteriorate from lack of use.
So if someone offered anywhere from $3,500 to 5,000 for it, I'd take it...there's really no more money than that in the car, and it's not likely to increase in value.
I hope this answers your question, and sorry about the difficulty you had last week logging on!
Mr. Shiftright
I have a '66 Mustang fastback 2+2, 4 speed on the floor, in very good condition (maybe a low #2). Several years ago I had it appraised by a Mustang specialist. Before I tell you the amount he appraised it for, I'd be interested in knowing if there is a range for this car.
Just wondering,
Kate
Thanks for the info on the 70 Benz. I am curious, is it more valuable to have a European version of this car or the American? I believe it is an American version, and it has been repainted - but it has a great paint job. At least from the laymans point of view.
Thanks.
A repaint could also devalue the car, depending on how it was done. A color change would be a major decrease in value, unless perhaps the car were a ground-up restoration.
Generally, the top prices for most German roadsters go only to the very best cars...there's a big gap between #2 and #3 cars.
Also tell us more about Alfa 164s and Milanos. Here's a chance to boost the value of your investment.
PS
Why doesn't Edmunds' print version list Alfa, Lancia, Peugeot, Bertone (X1/9), Fiat, Renault, and other cars that were sold here in the years that the book covers?
However, I like the older 504....good sturdy car of proven technology...I had a diesel 504 that could not be killed.... STILL running 8 years after I sold it to someone, although it has acquired a series of bulletholes in the hood, I've noticed.
Alfa 164s and Milano sedans...not for the weak and timid...you'd better know how to use every tool in your toolbox (to give you an idea, my stackable toolbox is literally 4 inches taller than I am, and I am 6' 2").
Aside from the obvious value of pre-war Alfas and certain rare postwar speciality cars, most Alfas from the 60s & 70s are still undervalued, I feel. Compared to most collectible cars of the 60s and 70s, Alfas are a kick to drive, and much better a car than the public believes. Problem is that they never got the proper care from knowledgable service people and owners, but if you buy one right and treat it right, the 60s-70s Alfa can be very reliable, for less than the price of a beater Miata.
From Mr. Tomasetti of Sports Car Market:
Austin Healey BN7, US price........$22,000
inland shipping to US port..........$350
container shipping (stuffing).......$2,750
inland trans from Euro port..........$350
10% import tax (negotiable).........$3,086
38% VAT over two liters (negot.)....$11,728
Euro country licensing and regist.....$600
Total ............................. $40,764
Price of same car in UK............ $30,213 USD
Italy ..........$34,969 USD
Germany $32,950
Anyway, even taking into account regional differences and all sorts of good luck with customs, you can see that there are many hidden expenses in the business of shipping cars overseas.
Thanks for your numbers...i've never shipped to UK, so can't say, but to Switzerland I did find the above numbers pretty accurate except i never found out the cost to register and license a TR8 in Geneva.....
Mr Shiftright
Anyway, it looks to me like it isn't worth it to ship such a car to the UK, or barely worth it, unless you picked a car that was worth way more in the UK than it is here.
There are lots of folks who really like these cars.
They were a nice size and weren't a barge like a Sedan De Ville.
I would advertise it in Hemmings along with a photo. I'll bet it'll bring 6-7000 dollars ?
I think I interpreted the poster's request as 'what price will this vehicle sell at" more than "what's the highest price I'm likely to get"...those can be two different prices, depending on whether you want to sell in a month or a year. Of course, isell, I'm preaching to the choir here, you know all this!
Lancia Thema -
Mid-80's sedan, Ferrari V8. Waddya think?
Apparently Lancia loved the Bertone concept car and decided to homologate it so that the car could officially rallye. About 500 were made, but of course the works rallye cars were more powerful than the homologated cars needed to meet the street production rules.
The Stratos works cars won the World Rally Championship in 1975 & 76.
The standard production cars had 190hp engine, and the car's stats are 143 mph and 0-60 in 6.8 seconds.
In today's market, if you could find one, you'd be paying $45K-65K, depending on condition. I've never driven one or even sat in one, but did see one in Europe and it looked great but seemed really cramped inside.
As for weaknesses, I can't say, probably no better or worse than a Fiat Dino Coupe...the saying is that "Lancia never made a bad car", but i don't know who said it, so.......
The GP is not the big-buck Pontiac for that year, that would be the Bonneville Convert...but it still has value, although probably not enough to warrant restoration (unless you just love the car and don't care if you don't recover your investment). Probably in the condition you describe about $4,000 is top dollar.
Dar Angus3--I presume this is a hardtop with the single barrel carb on the 6 cylinder OHC engine.
As you know, the V-8 is worth more, the bigger the better, so given the condition you describe about $5,000 would be a fair price, IMO.
the car is in good to very good condition. Could
anyone assist me with a value on this car.
If it were really quite decent, $2,500-$4,000 is probably where it will sell. If it were like new, $5K might be tops...if a bit shabby, start at $2,500 and go down until someone bites.
They are JUNK! Like a Fiat ( Fix it Again, Tony)
only much worse!
This addiction is not without its good points. For one thing, I've found a lot of interesting memorabilia on the side of the road while working underneath cars, and also, I have acquired a chicken cacciatore recipe that'll make the best sashimi in Little Tokyo taste like cat food.
PS
At least I haven't gone over to The Dark Side - English cars.
I guess my limited exposure to Lancias has been TOTALLY different than yours.
I usually agree with you but not this time!
BTW, do you like Le Cars too?
Dear Isell....Le Cars...no, I don't like them,although the concept was good. But it would be most unfair to lump Lancias in with them. Lancias are sporting and touring machines, a Le Car is just a cheap car for the masses. Big diff.
Just to give you an idea of Lancia's strength in the collectible car market, the 60s & 70s Flaminias and Fulvias are pulling $10 to $20K now, so far outstripping BMW 2002s and right up there with Mercedes SLs....you've probably been exposed to Betas and Scorpions, which aren't worth much....again, you have to know and pick the right ones, just like anything else one collects or restores.
v-8 with stearing-post shift. It's sitting in his
pole barn with a spray-can paint job peeling off.
It was running pretty good and used daily until
replaced by a newer model about 3 yrs ago. Any
particular value?
how do I find out what it is worth I have checked everywhere? Help........