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Jeep Liberty CRD Diesel Real World MPG
How's your gas... er, diesel mileage? Please include tidbits about your driving style, additives, odometer reading, etc.
If you stumbled in here but own a gas Liberty, please post your mpg over in that discussion.
Jeep Liberty: MPG - Real World Numbers
Thanks!
Steve, Host
If you stumbled in here but own a gas Liberty, please post your mpg over in that discussion.
Jeep Liberty: MPG - Real World Numbers
Thanks!
Steve, Host
0
Comments
So far I have not quite 11K miles on my 2005 CRD Limited.
If I do 75% city and 25% highway, then I average about 18.9 MPG.
If I do a 50/50 blend, then it climbs to 21.6 MPG.
If I do a long highway trip and keep the speed around 63 mph, then 30.5 to 31.2 MPG is not uncommon.
Driving style is mostly laid back. I let the world go by and kill itself. I like to push it a little on country roads but the Liberty not being a "tossable" vehicle kind of limits that. I usually stay around or just a touch over the speed limit around town, but will not exceed 65 mph on the highway.
25-27 mpg all of the time, mostly highway with some bumper to bumper. A/C on all of the time. When not in bumper to bumper on I78 average 70 mph.
Overall mileage since new is 24.59 mpg. Data indicates that mileage may have improved .5 to 1 mpg since new. Best fill-up was 32.8 mpg (tail wind) and worst was 17.9 (all town). Mix of driving is maybe 52% highway. It's difficult to sort that out because some of the town mileage is 45 mph with no stop lights and some is bumper-to-bumper.
I have been experimenting with Cetane number improver on the last 4 or 5 tanks and cannot sort out any difference in mileage, performance or sound of engine. Unfortunately, my egr valve stuck closed on the 3rd tank with the additive.
I drive 5 mph over the speed limit in town and 65 mph on the highway which may be 5 under or 5 over depending on posted speed limit.
IT'S A SUCKING LEMON. DON'T BUY ONE.
Most problems that the CRD have, are related to Tec's not knowing what procedures to follow in reparing things. For instance when the EGR goes bad the PCM must be replaced as well. Very few Tec's knew this and just replaced the EGR, sometimes as many as 4 times! This sort of thing makes buyers lose faith and become convinced what they bought was poor quality, which the CRD is not. If considering a CRD be smart be wise buy a Chrysler Extended Service Contract. Diesels are long lasting, but parts are heavy duty just as the engine is, thus the cost is a lot. A diesel pump is $2007. + labor. Those who use Bio Diesel above B-5 are asking for real trouble, even though they think it runs fine. Some people just won't listen, and when the CRD fails because they did their own thing, then it is all Jeep's fault. Sorry I do not agree. I would say buy one but follow the Owners Manual. Very simple, and easy.
Farout
Tried different additives, found them all to be a waste of money(unless it's real cold and you NEED it) with no gain or loss.
EGR replaced at 22K, no big deal, dealer did a great job. 15 ppm ULSD should help come October.
Love this little Jeep!!! Can't wait to get a Grand Cherokee with the new Benz diesel!
Tailgate
Farout
Farout
On mine, a 2006 CRD, if my odometer shows 100 miles, the GPS shows 106.6 miles. The second vehicle showed 100 miles w/ GPS at 105.2 miles and the third showed 100 miles w/ GPS at 104.7 miles. (on all 3 the OvHC show the same as the odometer did).
After adjusting the mileage to GPS mileage I am getting on the average highway trip (Savannah GA to Knoxville TN) 30.6 MPG at 65 MPH, no AC and using Cruise Control. (65 on the GPS which equals 69 on my speedometer). I am using regular dino fuel. (Enmark, Hess and Flying-J)
The best trip was 33.1 MPG, the worst was 27.6 using A/C.
In town, I usually get about 23-25 MPG on average with A/C, and in a city with heavy stop and go traffic about 19 - 21 MPG with A/C.
A recent trip to Grand Canyon AZ from Savannah GA averaged 29.8 MPG at 60 - 70 MPH (a 4360 mile trip, 65 most of the way, some head - side wind and a lot of rain).
My CRD has 10,564 miles on it, every thing is stock. Best mileage seems to be at 37-38 PSI in tires, 60-65 MPH. A/C seems to pull 1.5 - 2.0 MPG, 1 window down and no A/C looses about 1 MPG and sunroof part way slid open looses about .5 MPG with 1 window cracked about 3 inches (like for smoking).
I consistently get 8 - 13 MPG better than my 1996 Grand Cherokee Limited did, with a 318 CID and a K&N filter.
I tried a K&N filter on the CRD for 400 miles, and lost about 2-3 MPG, plus I began to see oil & dust in the intake, so I would not recommend a K&N oil style filter for the CRD, (but do recommend them for the gas engines). Oil and/or dust in a diesel intake is a big no-no! I switched back to stock filters!
Also have noted only a .5 - 1.0 MPG loss using full time 4 wheel drive, which is a lot less reduction than I expected. My testing on this vehicle has been extensive, all hand calculated using GPS as stated above. If anyone is getting poor MPG figures, I would first suggest checking your actual mileage using GPS before accepting the low numbers.
As far as qualifications on my tests, I was a mileage tester for the IVAP unit testing Hydrogen Fuel Cells in the 70-80's as well as a fuel cell developer.
I have talked to several factory service reps and they have admitted the odometer is usually reporting on the low side, if it is off any. They have no fix for the three I tested as the encoding software show correctly for the tire size.
Something that really helps MPG on diesels is to coast rather than hard breaking and to let off some on the accelerator as the torque increases. Follow the torque curve. Example, as the speed increases from a stop to about 30 mph, start letting off slightly as the engine gains RPM (speed). Above 2,000 RPM is beginning to waste fuel. Keep letting off a little more until your desired speed is reached. It takes a little practice at first, but soon it will feel natural and a very fluid motion with the torque curve will become second nature. This can then be applied to your particular driving style, with positive results.
I hope this helps some having low figures, as well as people considering the CRD, as the CRD does have several big advantages over the gas versions.
I am amazed with the off road capabilities the Liberty displays. A fantastic go anywhere vehicle!
However, I have personally experienced that the speedometer can be corrected. I put on 245 70 16 tires, that were off by a small amount. I called the 1800 992 1997 number and asked about adjusting the tired with the speedometer, I was referred to the dealer. They measured the outside circumfrance, and them made the correction required. The cost was $30. and took about 1/2 hour. The speed is accurate according to the State Trooper which used the radar to check it for me. I have a 2005 CRD if that makes any difference.
Farout
Maybe I was not clear, sorry.. I never meant to say the speedometer could not be changed for different tire sizes, I meant to say the tire size on the vehicle matches the software encoded, so no further fix is available. Yes, when changing sizes, they can re program for speedo adjustments, but in the cases I posted, these are the stock tires, the speedo re programed with the same results. Chrysler did re-program mine also, with nothing changing. I'm still am off as I mentioned in the post. All I am saying is to use a GPS to check your accuracy on the odometer if you are having low mileage readings first, just in case your CRD has the same issue as the ones I have checked. Not all the CRD odometers are off, but in low MPG readings, some may find my situation to really be the cause, and MPG may not be as bad as these folks feared.
When I played with the dealers system, (yes, I am a retired diesel cert. master mech as well) I did notice the only adjustment calibrations I could change was based on tire size, not tire measurements. Perhaps your dealer has a different system I am not aware of. If that is the case, I would love to know, as I could insist mine and the others tested and be re programed using it instead.
Until then, on my CRD, I just have to add 6.9 miles per 100, and the MPG will come out accurate, or base it on the GPS with the same results.
Even with this small problem, I still love this vehicle.
Farout
The VM Motori engine has been used in the CRD (Europe)for over 5 years with few problems. It basically is a very strong engine with a solid reputation. The weakest link is it uses a timing belt instead of a chain,
And of course, the biggest service mistake, running too long between oil changes. Using 0 - 40 Mobile-1 or equivalent, I would do a full change at least every 5000 - 6,500 miles, not at 12,000 as many do. (at 4,000 miles if used in severe duty, like pulling 4,500 lbs or more for extended times, or for extreme off road use). Don't skimp on this or on oil quality! I do not run nor believe in any oil additives. Changing oil regularly is enough.
The sulfer reduction from 500 ppm to 15 ppm does indeed reduce the lubrication qualities, but fuel manufactures do add a lubricant additive to ULSD to help replace that loss.
The big problem is in the USA fuel itself and with low volume dealers. There are currently no set in stone standards, as with octane in gasoline. So there is a lot of quality differences in "blends" as well as ratings. US diesel in most parts of the country is very "dirty". (mold, water contamination, bacteria, etc., particularly with low volume dealers)
For this reason, I would run a fuel additive, such as Power Service (cetane boost - grey bottle) or better yet, use what I use, which is "Stanadyne". (harder to find and more expensive, but better than PS in my mindset). I use 4-8 oz per 18 - 20 gals. Both will increase or insure a cetane rating of 45 - 50, which is considered ideal. Both add more lubricates and help to protect the injectors and pump system from fuel damage caused by contaminates like mold and trace amounts of water. I, like some, do get a little better MPG, at least enough to cover the cost.
Another high lubricant fuel is B-5, but water, lack of quality standards and bacteria can adversely affect it too.
Other suggestions, always fuel from dealers who sell a lot of diesel, as they will usually have less mold / bacteria and if possible, use B-5, as it lubricates very well, better than sulfer did.
Also replace the water separator / filter as per RSI, not just waiting until the light comes on.
Hope this helps and answered your questions.
I bought a 275 gallon tank and now have B99 biodiesel delivered to my home in Washington State. A couple of weeks ago we drove our 2005 Liberty from Sequim, Washington to the southern Oregon border on I-5 and got 29.5 mpg. That was filled with B99 and driving at 70.
Last week my son and I went to California's eastern High Sierra Mountains and took a rugged dirt and rock road 25 miles into the back country, to an altitude of 10,000 feet. The Liberty took the pounding without a complaint and 14.5 miles to the gallon seemed pretty good, given that we could only go about 5 mph most of the way.
A few months ago, we loaded the Jeep with family goods, hitched a 16' car hauler on the back, loaded the trailer with an Alfa Romeo GTV (also filled with family goods) and headed up to Washington State. We were close to the Jeep's 5000 lb max load. The trip was 950 miles long and crossed two major mountain ranges. We got an even 20 mpg.
I'm glad we now have a local source for biodiesel. It appears to me that low-sulfur diesel knocks about 2 mpg off my normal mileage.
Some of the Jeep's ergonomic features could use work, like getting the driver's seat low enough that a 6-footer doesn't look at the sun visor instead of traffic signals, and providing better foot space for passengers. But, all in all, we're happy with the Jeep.
Farout
My last oil change I used Shell Rotella 5-40w Syn. For me finding Mobile 1 0-4w was next to finding a hens tooth. The tec. information looked better than Mobile 1.
I have been on a 7,500 mile schedule for oil changes. Is this about right or too long? I don't tow but only a 1,500 10 box trailer twice a year for maybe 200 miles total.
I have read that anything higher than B-5 is not good to use, because lack of consistency and the injestors and pump will not tolerate long term use due to wax build up and plugging lines and other issues. See post #7715 in the Liberty Diesel Forum for very serious warnings from many parts dealers that make parts for the VM CRD.
I have planed on changing the water/sep filter at 25,000 miles, and I have had the Tec check to see if any water was in the filter twice so far, and there was no water yet.
What, with good maintanence, would be reasonable to expect this engine to archive as far as total miles. I have a 1996 Dodge Neon with the original engine with 191,000 miles, so I do take good care of my vehicles.
I tried PS, both kinds, and it did nothing compared to the way it ran before I put these in the fuel tank. Should we expect to notice any change?
I appreciate your response and input.
Farout
If you want to keep the CRD for a long period of time, I would NOT use anything higher than B-10. Most all Biodiesel has problems with lack of consistency, as does Dino. Remember there are no sets of standards governing Biodiesel or Dino at this time. I know many use B-25 - B-100 with no problems yet, and many may never have any, but if problems do develop, they will be very expensive. A fuel rail system replacement can run 2,000.00 - 5,000.00 dollars (depending on items being replaced). DCX will not replace anything fuel related under warranty using higher than B-5. B-5 flow properties are close to that of Dino. Higher ratios will be thicker and will cause higher demands on the injectors and H/P systems. Next generation rail systems will be modified to handle higher ratios of Bio. Your call on that one.
Good to hear no water yet, keep using your fuel dealer. 25,000 miles on W/S sounds about right.
With precise service, and reasonable driving, no over-revs, or extremely adverse driving (long term) the 2.8 should out live the suspension by 2 or more times. In other terms, I would expect upwards of 350,000 - 450,000 on the engine or more. Many in the Europe area have reported 400,000 or more.
As far as the fuel additive, I do not use for better running engine or for the fuel mileage improvement, but rather to lubricate the fuel system and to help with the other problems of US diesel fuel. Some people do notice slight quieting of the engine when cold and a smoother engine when warm, but some notice no change. Most do report a slight increase in mileage, say about .5 - 2.5 MPG. Thats enough to almost pay for the additive. B-5 or B-10 will also smooth the engine, although most report a slight decrease in MPG, as Bio does not have as much thermal energy.
I think some may begin to get mad at our off the subject forum, as this forum is for real numbers, not general questions. I hope I have not offended anyone. If so, buy a Toyota, cause Jeep people can take anything! (it's a joke people).
I have only used Bio fuel 1 time that I am sure of, and that was because I was nearly out of fuel (faulty fuel gage) just dropped to "E" and the light went on and I sure did not want to learn how to prime this dude. So I put in B-20, oh how I wish I did not have to do that. I felt it ran not too well. The power drop was noticeable to me, anyway.
I drive pretty normal for an "old as dirt grampa" as my grand kids say. I very seldom go over 70 mph and at the speed limit on two lane roads.
This Liberty has been so good and reliable, we bought a gas Liberty Sport for our daughter. With the rebate and all the huge discounts we got 25% off the msrp. I think that's the best I have ever got before.
Thanks again for your information.
JEEP PEOPLE CAN TAKE ANYTHING! AND THAT'S NO JOKE!
Farout
I just purchased a BRAND new 2006 CRD. I have 170miles. I filled it with abt 80 miles on it, so I'm into my 1st tank by arnd 90miles. My guage is at the 1st mark below the F. I'm so glad to see "real world" figures. My wifes been reading other reviews by searching and she was not impressed. She just got a VW Jetta TDI and we see 43-48 MGP consistently. We traded in a Pacifica due to it's feeding habit of 89 of which she gave us only 19MPG. Last trip 21.1mpg. However, this is abt the new guy, my CRD. I'll let u know what I get on the first tank. I'm using Lucas Diesel add w/Amsoil Cetane Boost. I've also read where some have report like 15mpg-20mpg with highway driving. Can't for the life of me figure that one out. Must be all UPHILL. Gary
You may well get 18 to 22mpg for the first 10,000 miles. I have an 05 Sport with 21,400 miles on it. our mpg went up at about 16,000 miles. We got about 20 mpg, and slowly got better. We have not gone on a trip but on a 1 and 1/2 hour jaunt we get 26.4mpg. Driving around the lake we get 22 to 24mpg.
You really should not need to use any additives. The owners manual does not suggest it. I have tried both the Cetane booster and the anti gel and it made only one difference. My wallet had less money in it.
May I suggest a few things. Do not use Bio fuel above B-5. There are no consistent Bio fuels above B-5, the fuel waxes up your injectors, and fuel pump. Also, do not go above 10-40w synthetic oil. I use Shell Rotella 5-40w, it's hard to find Mobile 0-40w and 5-40w in our area. Rotella is a higher rated oil than Mobile 0-40 or 5-40. The best thing you can do is follow the owners manual.
The Liberty CRD;s stopped production in May 06. There were a total of 11,000 Liberty CRD's made. 8,333 were made in 05, the rest were made as 06 CRD's. We like our CRD a lot. However everyone who bought a CRD was really a part of a "test market" DCX knew that the CRD would not be made after 2006 because the emission standards were to expensive to achieve and make the Liberty CRD affordable.
The GoodYear ST tires are the poorest tire you can have on your CRD. We have 2 Liberty's. an05 CRD and an 06 3.7 gas. I got ride of the tires as fast as it took my ordered tires to come in. I put on 245 70 15 T GoodYear Silent Armor tires on. Excellent tires in all conditions, and very stable, quiet anf smooth. I gave my GoodYear dealer my ST tires and $380. The tires are $189. ea. list. wholesale price is $155.ea Any tire is better than the ST tire.
I hope something in my post is helpful.
Farout
These values were taken when refueling using the trip mileage counter and are already averaged per type of driving condition:
- 4WD at 7500ft altitude 18L%KM ~~13 USmpg (this one is less accurate)
- heavy rain/snow 12.5L%KM ==19 USmpg
- local city traffic 11.3L%KM ==21 USmpg
- interstate 80mph 10.23L%KM ==23 USmpg
- mixed / commuting 10L%KM ==23.5 USmpg
- interstate 70mph 9.46L%KM ==25 USmpg
My "global" average mileage is now 22.5 USmpg after 3 years and 52,000 miles. This comes to almost 12,500 USD worth of diesel fuel over here.
Jettas are fantastic for mileage. Much, MUCH better for mileage than any Jeep will ever be, even if hydrogen powered. BUT, remember, a Jetta can NOT go where the Jeep can go and when you want to get away from everything around you, the Jeep can really make it all happen.
So with that in mind, your mileage (make sure your odometer is correct) should improve as it ages, starting at about 18-23 rural town driving and 25-28 hi-way with cruise control (level) at about 55-65. After about 10,000 miles you should notice about 30 on the hi-way at the same speed on level roads. City never seems to improve more than 1 or 2 MPGs, even with age. Diesels are not running at their best in the city. Most gas powered Libby's are averaging about 13-15 town and 19 - 23 hi-way. The CRD should do about 6-8 MPG better across the board, so figure about 120 - 200 more miles per tank.
Driving habits are what kills many people's mileage thoughts. Many drive a diesel like a gas vehicle. They are different animals, diesels responding best when you re-learn how to drive using the power / torque curve. If you learn to keep your RPMs in the 1700 - 2000 range most of the time,you will get the best mileage. But again, if all you want is mileage, then best to get another TDI. I am sure once you see what the Libby can do in the great outdoors, even 5-8 mpg over the gas versions is a big difference. Plus the low end torque is amazing when off roading, will help you from getting stuck in the slimy stuff, where gasers will often sit. (idling diesels in gear will often get you out, gas jeeps will often just spin the tires. I have been stuck many times with my Grand Cherokee and my friends gas Libby, where the diesel will consistently idle out of the same mess).
I strongly agree with Farout about the tires. The Silent Armor will reduce the MPG slightly ( .2 - 1.0 % on average), but is well worth it for the stability and traction they provide. They are an excellent tire for the Libby.
Additives will help the rail system. The CRD rail system is well designed and works well, but the fuel in many areas is very fouled or "dirty" with contaminates. This is why I endorse using a good additive such as Stanadyne, as I have personally seen the difference mechanicaly during tear downs. Trucks using Stanadyne I have found were some of the cleanest tear downs I have ever done. Using it really does help reduce wear and tear. Power Service also helps some, but many additives do not. If you get a mileage increase, that's great, if not it is still good P/M.
The owners manual does not endorse, because the rail system itself does not need additives, but the poor fuel quality in the US makes some additives very worthwhile.
BUT in your case.. I would not run an additive for about 3500-5000 miles, as your rail system needs to break in. It needs some wear to do this. So I would recommend not using any more until break in. Also, do not use any oil additives until well over 25,000 miles. B-5 is great, even B-10 would probably be OK, but nothing at this time over that. I am hearing about some future conversions that may enable higher Bio levels, but won't happen in the near future.
Also, during the break in period, don't try to get the best MPG. Diesel break in periods do best when constantly changing driving speeds and patterns. You want the rings and cylinders to properly "seat". Constant speeds will not seat properly. Best to fluctuate speeds from 40 - 70 as well as loads. Also do occasional wide open runs from near stop to about 50 mph between about 3,500 and 5000 miles. This is also a perfect time to re-learn using the curves. Drive normally after about 6,500 miles or the first oil change. Won't give the best MPG, but will break in better, and thus will be faster in getting good MPGs latter.
I hope you enjoy your new go anywhere CRD, and you get great MPG to boot. But remember, it is a jeep first. I hope this helps some and answers some of your future questions you may have. YES, I need to learn to write less! Oh well, I love Jeeps, the places they can go and the people who are attracted to Jeeps!
Thanks for all the info. I currently pay abt 2.55/gal here in CT for diesel.
Happy Jeeping
You life is worth more than radio equipment. Dump the St tries before they dump you.
Enjoy your Jeep.
Farout
An earlier message on this forum directed us to a position paper signed by auto manufacturers and hardware suppliers. They say not to use anything over B5.
My personal feeling is that the manufacturers are doing what large bureaucracies do best. They are protecting themselves by being overly conservative. That's probably not a bad idea now, while biodiesel is being offered by producers who employ varying quality standards.
Because I'm confident in Seattle biodiesel, I'll continue to run on B99. The Jeep loves it and so do I.
On a trip down I-5 last week -- more than 700 miles from northern Washington into California -- I averaged 31.8 miles per gallon. Most of the time I ran between 70 and 75 mph without air conditioning. For about an hour I used the air, and for about 50 miles I slowed to 60 mph, just to improve an already spectacular mileage figure. That's better than normal.
The first part of the trip was on B99. The balance on B25.
Normal mileage on biodiesel and dino is about the same, which is a surprise to me. I expected biodiesel to cost me mileage, but that hasn't been the case. Perhaps its because Seattle Biodiesel is doing a good job.
We have nearly 20,000 miles on the 2005 CRD and have averaged about 22 in town and 26 on the highway. We also have a Jetta TDI that runs B99 and seem to love it as well as the Jeep does.
One fact that can't ignored is a fuel pump is about $2500. If it goes out because of Bio fuel, then down goes the savings. I doubt any Bio maker would help pay for your any danage that Bio fuel would cause.
I have 22,300 miles on our CRD and we have yet to take it on a trip, but we have gotten as high as 28 mpg and local driving is 22mpg. So it sounds like both CRD's are doing about the same.
One question I do have is Bio fuel does gel up at 20 F. How are you dealing with that in Seattle?
Farout
Are your Silent Armor Tires Forteras or Wranglers? The Fortera appears to be a highway tire, and the Wrangler has a more aggressive tread pattern. Would there be an appreciable fuel economy difference between the two designs?
We have 20,000 miles on the Wranglers and 400 miles on the Fortera tires.
These are the only Good Year tires I have ever bought, usually I dump the OE tires right away. I never saw a Good Year tire worth buying before these came out. I have most generally bought Cooper Discover tires, but they would be shot in 18,000 miles, but did very well on our road.
I hope this helps, because the ST tires are so flimsy, they are a flat just looking to run over a garden snail to blow it apart.
Farout
tidester, host
Farout
It is a great vehicle. It just takes time for the engine to fully break in and reach its maximum mpg.
My theory was that the driving was all down hill after the first 8,000 mi. :shades:
tidester, host
I have charted my MPG since new and my cumulative mileage is now 24.53 MPG @ 28k miles. Oil consumption went down dramatically at around 16k miles. Except for 3 or 4 tanks I use no additives. I have picked up a little less than 1 MPG since new. There are stretches on my chart that look a little like your stretch of increased mileage that in my case was related to a much higher proportion of highway driving. My driving tends to be either-or rather than mixed.
The diesel pedal on the CRD is short travel relative to all other vehicles I have owned requiring more precise control and discipline to get really good mileage.
Two tanks of ULSD and no significant fuel economy, same noise, seems like less smoke, more driveline shimmy while shifting between overdrive gears after hard acceleration. I tried to post a log and chart but don't have a url to first ul the photos to.
Gary
Turblediesel
PS Gosh... when the meaningless warrenty ends I can pay big money for them to screw up my car even more.
Farout
farout, "Jeep Liberty Diesel" #7293, 8 Aug 2006 1:53 pm
My CRD now has 6,000 miles on it. Finally figured out that there was a 5th gear and if you can travel in it you will get good mileage. If I travel in fourth gear (50 to 55 mph) I never get better than 22 MPG. I do a lot of highway driving and I now get into 5th gear as quick as I can and stay there.