Toyota Echo Real World MPG

kneisl1 · September 2008

I fill up 99% of the time at the same Sunoco station. But recently I filled up at a Gulf station about 20 miles from my house. Not driving much differently I got 44 mpg on that tank! I normally get 40-42. I wonder did Gulf help any?

nippononly · September 2008

Could be - you wouldn't be the first one I have ever seen on these boards that swears that changing from their usual gas station netted them an mpg increase.

Me, I always use Chevron gas just because it is the most convenient in terms of location. We don't have Sunoco or Gulf in my neck of the woods, but years ago when I would switch between ARCO and Chevron, I always measured an mpg increase with the Chevron gas.

nippononly · October 2008

a 44 reading yesterday - 8.3 gallons, 369 miles. Who wants to bet the pump cut off a little early? ;-)

The next tank will tell that story....

kneisl1 · October 2008

Thats why you keep a running average so it all evens out. Waiting for the dreaded winter blend of gas to hit the pumps and bring with it 35 mpg down from 40 mpg. This summer didnt have to use AC much at all. I think my average for the summer this year was more like 42 mpg than 40 mpg. Gas here in NJ is $3.09 if you pay cash and its clearly headed south of $3.

nippononly · October 2008

Yeah, my running average is a hair below 42. Most of the year I can count on 42 or a little more from the pump, but for a couple of months in the winter my tank-to-tank readings drop into the 40-42 range.

The gas I just bought cost $3.61/gallon. Since I was there it has dropped to $3.59. There is no way we will see gas under $3 in California, but I am hoping it gets down close to there. That will be not much above last winter's price trough.

nippononly · October 2008

Well, the verdict is in. 351 miles, 8.4 gallons, 41.5 mpg. So the pump cut off a little early last time. Still, between the two that's almost 43 mpg over more than 700 miles.....not TOO bad... :-P

kfho · November 2008

Easy answer: You live downhill from the GULF station and the wind was behind you after you filled up. It was also a cool day and a high pressure weather pattern, [you know, a (H)] was centered over your area. Environmental factors influence performance. All these factors boost performance.

Well, it could happen. Think about it.

kneisl1 · November 2008

Well I also did get to drive 20 miles from the Gulf station home @45 mph non stop in fifth gear.
Im experimenting with limiting top speed to 35 mph down from 45 mpg. So far (two tanks) mileage is no better. BUT its possible the winter blend of fuel had occured which results in a loss of 4-5 mpg. If it has happened then Im getting 4-5 mpg BETTER than @45 mph. Note that I drive 13.7 miles each day and only about 6 miles of that is spent in 5th gear non stop. So 7 miles of driving hasnt changed at all.
Saw gas for sale at $1.99 gallon today. Not sure thats a good thing...

dephinusorca · November 2008

I spent a couple of weeks at Yellowstone this summer, where 45mph was max speed. I cruised 35 in fourth, 45 in fifth, but made frequent stops for sightseeing, and had three consecutive tanks of 50mpg or better, with a best of 53+. At 65mph on freeway I normally get around 47. So my experiences are similar to a 5mpg improvement dropping from 65 to 45.

As far as cheap gas, I just hope that the change in administration will help speed our automakers' conversion to more fuel efficient vehicles, no matter what the cost of gas. I know that Obama plans to reverse the Bush policy blocking the states from setting their own emissions standards. Maybe now the EPA will be allowed to do what it is supposed to do.

kneisl1 · November 2008

Yeah the Dems have a whole agenda in store to undo everything Bush did. They better think about it real good because Bush had some good reasons for some of the things he did.
One thing he didnt do was mandate an energy policy. Like no cars that dont get at least 35 mpg. No cars like the Prius that just take the money you would have given Exxon and give it to Toyota either. Techno frauds!

dephinusorca · November 2008

Well, setting aside bush's reasoning, which I'm all too glad to put behind me, I disagree on the issue of the prius.

In my view, and in the view of the prius owners I know, the prius is not about saving money at the gas pump. Maybe a few people think that is true, but none of the people I know think that they will spend 25000 on that car and end up spending less on transportation than my $4600 echo that averages 46mpg.

What it is about is emissions, and the environment. They can get a nice comfortable family car that gets great mileage and produces drastically fewer pollutants than any other sedan on the market, including the much smaller echo. I can't afford one, and dont need one, but if I had a couple of kids and the money I'd be very happy to buy it.

On another note, I've posted no mpg posts lately because I have moved and am walking to work! Haven't bought a tank of gas since August. The car has been turned over to my wife and she doesnt seem to care about tracking mileage.

nippononly · November 2008

Hey there! I was wondering what happened to you! Cool deal, to be able to walk to work.

As for me, my mileage is running 43-44 mpg right now as it always does in fall and spring. I know I will pay for this in a couple months' time, with lots of tanks around 40 as those cold winter months begin.....

The car is at 108K miles now, still has never needed a repair, the next tuneup is due at 115K. It may need a battery before then - I wonder if having a weak battery (as mine is beginning to have now) impacts gas mileage at all......

kneisl1 · November 2008

Yeah when you sit down and do a bottom line analysis of the Prius you gotta come up with some reason to justify the money you spent. Hence the "Im driving it for the environment" line. Well the gas engine in the Prius is the same one as in the ECHO with a different valve actuation mechinism. It also has more advanced emissions control devices. Which could very easily be in any gas car. For a lot less money. I believe the Ford Focus has (or had) an engine option for zero emissions just like the Prius. The Prius needs to be outed for the engineering fraud that it is. Its incredible that so many people have been taken in by it.

dephinusorca · November 2008

108k with no work sounds great. I think mine just hit 90k with no work, although I do think I should probably get the 90k service, since I'm not sure it had one at 60k, before I bought it. Should those 30/60/90k deals be done as a matter of routine, or can you check the belts, fluids, etc and see if it is really necessary?

kneisl1 · November 2008

Most of the "service" @ 30/60/90k is an inspection of the car. If you read the owners manual you can see what they check. Things like: ball joint seals, CV joint boots, evap hoses and canisters, brake linings, shocks, belts, check for oil leaks etc. As the car gets older those things become more important, but it isnt hard to do the checking yourself. The "real work at the 30/60/90 service is changing the engine oil and filter, changing the sparkplugs (if you dont have platinum plugs that is) changing the air filter, changing the coolant. All that you should be able to do yourself very easily. The thing thats a little worrysome is the valve adjustment at 60k miles. The ECHO has a first for Toyota shim under bucket (as opposed to hydralic or screw and nut adjusters) valve system like on a high performance motorcycle. Frankly I dont know Toyota mechanics are up to that job, given the small number of Toyota cars with this feature and the complexity of doing the work. But definately that is something youd want done. Its VERY easy to just NOT DO the check/adjustment and this frequently is what happens on motorcycles. The dealer just tells you "Yeah the valves are fine" without checking it. They get away with this because usually no adjustment is needed. I would mark the valve cover somehow so you can determine whether or not it has been removed if you do have Toyota perform this job for you.

dephinusorca · November 2008

Oh yeah, shoot. I forgot about the valve adjustment--I don't know if the previous owner did that--I got the car around 65k. Well I wonder where to go to get that done. I just moved and can't go to my trusted mechanic. I'll have to ask around.

kneisl1 · November 2008

You could CHECK the valve clearances if you are at all handy yourself. You just remove the black plastic valve cover and the sparkplugs. (so you can easily turn the engine) Then you get a set of feeler gauges, turn the engine so the lobes of the camshaft point upwrds and check those valves. Keep checking and recording the values until you have done all the valves.
Its easy to CHECK the clearances and not often necessary to perform an ADJUSTMENT. If no adjustment is needed you are merrily off on your way to 120k miles worry free. Its possible to do the adjustment yourself but you better have mechanical knowledge. If you find tight exhaust valves then its got to be done or you will burn the exhaust valves and need a valve job. Better to know!

nippononly · November 2008

to mention that this week I had my first fill-up under $20 in the Echo in several years. That's right, $19.85 did the trick. WOW, have those gas prices ever dropped a lot! :-)

kneisl1 · November 2008

Usually I fill up every 2/3 weeks and buy like 6 gallons of gas. But since the price of gas has been falling so hard I waited as long as possible. Just bought 7.3 gallons of gas for $14. Thats $1.89 a gallon! Gas must be well under what it was a year ago? Anyone know? I think my last fillup gas was $2.19.

kneisl1 · November 2008

Im almost ready to declare my speed limit of 35 mph as a means of increasing my mpg a success. Three fillups at this speed have yielded mpgs of 39, 40, and 38. We must be well into the "winter blend" by now. Previously I could count on 33-36 mpg on that stuff. Im really digging the low speed feeling besides the mpg increase. Much safer and easier to deal with traffic crazies!
$1.65 a gallon today!

nippononly · November 2008

Dude, I am AVID in my pursuit of increased mpg, but there is NO WAY I could hold my speed to 35 max! So you never take the freeway anywhere?

My last fill-up was 44 mpg, but now the weather is starting to get colder and I expect those 40 mpg tanks to ensue any day now....don't know how I will handle it being that low, but hey at least the gas is cheap!

kneisl1 · November 2008

No never. Well, maybe a year or two ago. Not only that but 90% of my driving is going 5.8 miles to work and back. Yeah you cant go 35 mph on the freeway! Too dangerous! I can get away with it because the only major artery I go on the Admiral Wilson Boulevard has a 45 mpg speed limit. Not that anyone except me goes anything like 45 mph. More like 55-60.
Yeah keep the pressure on the oil barons and drive that ECHO!

rockman3 · December 2008

Anyone know why my last few fillups have shown a significant MPG decrease in my 2002 Toyota Echo? I used to get a consistent 36-38 mpg, but the last few times it has gone down to 32-33 mpg. I drive mostly highway, live on the moderate temperature west coast of California, am a light driver on the gas pedal......... I'm using platinum plugs, that I just replaced 5k miles ago.

What should I check next?

dephinusorca · December 2008

With the season I would guess cold weather and/or winter fuel mix. Even in CA I suspect its gotten chilly in the mornings, which will make a difference. If that's not it, could be something as simple as an underinflated tire.

kneisl1 · December 2008

I agree with delphinusorca.

mnman · December 2008

I've owned myb '01 Echo for 5 years now, I use a ScanGauge in it, it seems pretty accurate as far as I can tell... the car is a 5 speed w 107K on it. I drive it to the cabin in Wisconsin often, 360 milles rt. I often get better than 50 mpg on those trips in the summer, with some at 55 mpg believe it or not- at 60 mph. In the winter it can be as low as 37 mpg with a head wind and bitter cold temps.

I just went to Fort Worth TX from here, St. Paul Minnesota with the Echo, I put 2500 miles on in a 5 day period, I got 42 mpg with various conditions, strong headwinds (35) in Oklahoma, cold temps, snow, and freeway speeds of 73 mph.
I installed a electronic Rostra cruise control on the car, it sure works well and makes the trips much more pleasant to take. I highly recomend them.

nippononly · December 2008

which is also a 5 speed, I am also very pleased with the Rostra cruise. It helps on longer trips in boosting mpg, among other things.

I have also noticed a decrease in mpg the last few tankfuls, and I am also in California. I know there is a winter mix for the fuel in this state, which is what I think we are buying now, and with winter fuel you will notice a decrease in mileage. I always do. Between that and the morning temps, which are now close to freezing as opposed to the 40s and 50s we have the rest of the year, my tank-by-tank mpg is running about 3-4 points lower (for me, that means single tank readings of 39-40 mpg) than it was prior to December 1.

mnman · December 2008

I am getting gas here (Minnesota) with a coupon which is always available for $1.42, I filled up for $12! I saw gas for $1.29 recently in Texas, but it was all gone!! It was going for more at other stations though...

I will need to check into the valve clearance issue, I do have a factory manual that is quite comprehensive....I remember seeing something about it in the book. My goal is to get 300K miles out of my ECHO. I need to do more cross-country trips soon. It's hard to do when I am so close to work, only 3 miles one way. I got it for the long weekend trips.

kneisl1 · December 2008

Its relatively easy to CHECK the valve clearances yourself. Just remove the valve cover, get a feeler gauge and learn the clearances of the intake and exhaust valves, turn the engine so the lobes of the cams point UP, and check them. Mark off the ones you di and turn the cams again so the lobes point up until youve done them all. Most likely they will not need adjusting. If you check them and they are OK you are good to go and can sleep at night soundly. If they need adjusting, especially if the clearances are TIGHT, probably you have to take them to the shop.

kneisl1 · January 2009

Im approaching the first fillup of my recently purchased 2004 ECHO with AT. The gauge needle is hovering just shy of the half full mark and I have traveled 170 miles since fillup. The operation of the gauge appears to be very like that of my 2001. If I filled it right now I bet it would take 5.2 gallons. So 170/ 5.2 = about 32 mpg. Driving it exactly as I drove my 2001 with MT which averaged around 40 mpg same route.

kneisl1 · January 2009

Actual numbers: 173 miles /5.6 gallons = (almost) 31 mpg. A little disappointing. I was going no more than 35 mph. I wonder is the auto transmission in high gear at 35?

rockman3 · January 2009

My mechanic told me that on many Toyotas and Hondas, including my 2002 Echo, the air conditioner turns on when the defrost is activated. This being winter, I use the defrost more often, so I suppose I have been inadvertently using the AC. My MPG has been a disappointing 32-34. So I've been trying to minimize my use of the defrost and I'll post soon when I'm able to convey my hopefully new improved fuel economy.

mcdawgg · January 2009

True, but the compressor does not run much at all, especially below 45 degrees, so I bet you won't notice much, if any, difference.

nippononly · January 2009

I wonder is the auto transmission in high gear at 35?

It may be, but I bet the TC is not locked at that speed - the larger heavier Matrix I had wouldn't lock up the TC until 37 mph, so I bet the Echo wouldn't lock up until at least 40 mph or more, with its smaller engine. And if it's slipping, your gas mileage will be less than optimal.....

kneisl1 · January 2009

I got a tip to try pushing the OD on/OD off button to OD OFF which will make only 3 of the 4 speeds useable. So if you push the button and the engine revs up, then it must have been in 4th.
But I think Ill try driving 40-45 until the next fillup and see if that helps...

kneisl1 · January 2009

Had my second fillup on the new 2004 ECHO and again got 31 mpg, maybe a fraction over. Increased cruising speed to 45 mph from 35 mph and saw no improvement...
The wife has been driving my old 2001 5 speed to work. My daughters car in in the shop and shes driving the wifes car. The ODO has 190 miles since the last fillup and the gas gauge is well below the half way mark. Probably way less than 35 mpg. I routinely get 35-38 mpg winter driving to work with this car...

nippononly · February 2009

so I thought I would list yesterday's fill-up, 334 miles, 8.3 gallons, computes to a touch over 40 mpg, about standard for wintertime. The running average, now covering 3 years and about 54K miles, remains a shade below 42.

Even the brand new Insight, set to release in a couple of months, will only average 41 combined, and that's a hybrid! There's still nothing out there that's gas-only and will beat the fuel economy of the stick shift Echo. :-)

kneisl1 · February 2009

Why people spend $25000 on a Prius when they could have an ECHO (err...Yaris) for $14000 is hard to understand. The Prius will only "save" them $2000 in gas over its lifetime vs Yaris. Now theyre out another $9000! Nuts!

dephinusorca · February 2009

Well I won't bash the Prius and we've been through that debate before, but I'm definitely pro-echo. Based upon my very casual and unscientific observation, the price of used echos has come down with the gas prices. Back when gas was $4 a gallon, I saw lots of echos selling for 8-10k, and they weren't necessarily low miles or late models. But they seem to have dropped back since then, and I'd say now's the time to buy for anyone looking, before the gas goes back up, which I'm certain it will do in a year or so.

kneisl1 · February 2009

I think you are probably right: look for the price of gas to go up again. Especially this spring/summer. But I have read "expert" opinion in the NY Times that says the price of $40 a barrel of oil currently is unsupportable. The economy is too bad for it to ever go up very much. Its possible the price will collapse. In any case I now own 3 ECHOs so I guess I gotta root for an INCREASE!

moparblue2 · February 2009

this is 2004 Echo 5 speed we get 40 mpg all the time. we have got in the 50-57 mpg. with good tail wind. this is our 2nd Echo we had 2000 Echo we bought new. it was a 5 speed to we got about the same mpg with that car to. i think 5 speed helps on mpg.

nippononly · February 2009

Oh for sure, the 5 speed always helps a lot for mpg, but ESPECIALLY in the Echo, where the fuel economy spread between stick shift and automatic is particularly large.

kneisl1 · February 2009

Thats my experience too. My manual ECHO gets like 40 mpg and the automatic ones get like 31. Thats short distance driving.

nippononly · March 2009

446 miles, 10.2 gallons, that's almost 44 mpg, 43.7 according to my calculator. :-)

As we put winter behind us here, I note with interest that this year I did not have a single individual fill-up under 40 mpg, as far as I can remember. In years past I have always had a sprinkling of 1-tank 39s and even a 38 or two, but not this year. Go Echo go! :shades:

kneisl1 · March 2009

my new 04 auto ECHO just returned 35 mpg this weeks fillup. Its been 31. Wonder if the summer blend gas is kicking in?

nippononly · March 2009

Well I am planning to post my next fill-up as well in case it was an early pump shutoff, although in my case I am confident it was not, based on how long after the fuel light started blinking I filled up.

You can post the next fill-up too, and we can balance the two - in your case I know it could be a very long time before we hear from you!

kneisl1 · March 2009

Not only that but as of today Im on disability from work with a bad back. Wont be driving much at all now.

nippononly · March 2009

Oh goodness, well be sure to rest up and good luck with your recovery!

kneisl1 · March 2009

Thanks. See the doctor Tuesday.

nippononly · March 2009

Wow, tonight's fill-up was even better than the last: 389 miles, 8.75 gallons, that's 44.5 mpg! That's 44 mpg average over the last 835 miles, which I call darn good! :-)

Bet I couldn't do better in the new Insight.....

;-)

Toyota Echo Real World MPG

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