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Lincoln Navigator

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Comments

  • firstnavfirstnav Posts: 21
    Just waiting to hear from the salesman. Then I'll have to check my options (no pun intended).
  • jb7227jb7227 Posts: 86
    A heads up - just prepare to wait a while for a special-order Nav. I ordered mine 1/7 - was told by Lincoln it came off assembly line 2/21 - still at "released from plant" status, awaiting shipping by rail to Boston. It was supposed to be at dealer 2/28. A week and a half late not so bad, but dealer said he asked his zone manager to look into it since he had another sold order Nav and a Mark LT pickup promised same day - and received same answer - "released from plant awaiting shipping". Too bad I didnt live closer to Michigan - maybe I could have driven it home!!
  • gteach26gteach26 Posts: 576
    I just read the latest Consumer reports car issue and they report that the Navigator was tied with the Nissan Quest as having the WORST reliability rating of any car or truck with 49 problems reported per 100 vehicles. (Page 17 of the April 2005 Issue).

    Having owned 2 Navigators (2000 and 2003 model years) I did have my share of issues with the vehicles but I didn't think they would rate THAT poorly.

    I'm beginning to wonder if these reliability reports are accurate. I find it hard to believe that according to Consumer Reports, Ford makes the MOST reliable vehicle out there (2004 Mustang with 5 problems per 100) and the LEAST reliable vehicle as well (the Navi).

    It just doesn't make sense......
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    Part of the problem is having dealers that don't fix the problem the first time causing multiple visits. They also don't count unique problems so one problem that affects all vehicles counts more than a problem that only affects a small percentage.

    Take it with a grain of salt.
  • I too have had two Navigators, 2000 and 2003, and as much as I love them I would have to admit that Consumer Reports is correct. If it were not for a great dealer I would probable be real upset. I'm sure a number of the problems have resulted from their desire to add features that most vehicles don't have. Tilting mirrors for backup come to mind.
  • firstnavfirstnav Posts: 21
    Hey nvbanker. You won't believe what happened today. My dealer called and asked if I would take a black instead of a white. Since black was my choice (mom wanted white), I said that would be fine. A black was transferred from another dealer today and I'll pick it up tomorrow. I got everything I wanted plus a couple of extras at no extra cost. Talking about your highs and lows. I feel like I've been on a roller coaster this past week. But all's well, etc.
  • firstnavfirstnav Posts: 21
    I just checked Consumer Reports online and tried to find info on the '05 Nav. I couldn't find any empirical data on any tests run. The only info I found was 'projected' reliability. Let's see: 'I project that a Lexus rx470 will be returned for a problem this year.' Wow, does anyone want to subscribe to my newsletter. Only $25/yr. Seriously though, I've used CR's reports to purchase numerous items, and some were great and some were a waste of money. I don't rely on there ratings all that much anymore. JMHO
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I think of it this way, on vehicles that do not sell in mass quantities, if only 5 people turn in a survey, and 3 had problems, obviously it'll give data showing that it has astrocious reliability. Which is why I prefer JDPower methods moreover.

    I've seen numerous issues with past information that CR has published, and some of the biasness are downright obvious.

    I say it's just one example of what's out there, of the many other research data people can access. A wise decision takes thorough research.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Well, I three have had 2 Navigators, and I have to say CR (as usual) is full of Barbra Streisand. My 99 Navigator had exactly 1 problem per 1 car in 5 years. My 03 Navigator has not done nearly as well, but 49 problems? Not in 100 cars, no way. It's the first year out for a totally redesigned model, and the important stuff, the moving parts have been perfect. The gizmos, some of them, have given me some issues. Would I buy a third one? Very likely will when the lease is up. Drove an LX-470 this week for comparison. Like it a lot. But the 3rd seat is a joke, and it's missing a lot of features still, one of which is an engine with some grunt. The Navigator is still the king IMHO.
  • njbaran99njbaran99 Posts: 69
    Well, this past weekend I bought an 05' Navi Ultimate loaded with everything. But I got the 2nd Row 40/20/40 as we have 3 little ones and did not want to be forced to put one of the boys in the back seat for every trip, so no deployable Running Boards.

    With ~300 Miles, MPG as calculated by the On Board Computer is 9.8 MPG. Pretty scary with the forecast for High Gas Prices.

    Had anyone experience lower MPG at first and then have it increase over time as the engine breaks in. as I heard from someone else, what kinda of MPG do you expect from a 6,000 SUV Shaped Like a brick.

    I have loaded the car up with Aftermarkets, so I better plan to keep it. Protection Pkg, Remote Start, Extended Warranty, Extended Maintenance, Door Ding Warranty Policy, Daytime Running Lamps (I have HID so this will be on the High Beams) Clear Bra, All-Weather Floor Mats, Cargo Tray, Cargo Organizer, Mud Flaps and Plan to get Rear View Camera with DVD to display (w. Camera on the front Nav Unit. This aftermarket exceed $6K Wow!

    I got Black with Dove Gray, looks nice, but gonna be heck to keep clean.

    Some idiot through a Huge Snowball Spit-Ball at my 3-day old Navi and pitted the paint on the front quarter by the like maybe 2" diameter. Oh well, so much for a Perfect Car.

    If anyone has any questions, send them along. FYI, got the $64K MSRP NAVI for ~$52K with all Incentives and I was eligible for X-Plan Pricing.

    Interested in getting more experience on the Navi, as this board is a little slow.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Your mileage should level out to at least 13 mpg after it gets enough data tabulated to make an average calculation, but of course, your mileage may vary depending upon 1000 variables. If you get it out of the city, it'll do better than that. Absolutely love mine, despite the gas prices today, and will likely buy another one when this lease is up. Nobody is making anything yet that I even consider comparable yet in the SUV world. Oh, sorry about the snowball. My first Navigator (99) was black. That's why this one is White.......
  • njbaran99njbaran99 Posts: 69
    Had the Blimish looked at today and it turned out to be a Egg not my previous thought of a snowball.

    Can you believe, the Navi was 2 friggin' days old and some idiot kid throws an egg at it.

    Had it estimated, $295 to respray the right fender which I passed on. Way too new. As the dealer had to fix a small scratch on the rear lift gate, the guy attempted to repair the Egg Hit and it came out somewhat. Oh well!

    I got the Daytime Running Lamps working today. Think it helps with seeing the beast during the day. I get the Rear View Camera and DVD Play on the Front Nav on Monday. Will report it's operation.
  • njbaran99njbaran99 Posts: 69
    I chatted with a buddy of mine at work today as he bought a used 5K Miles Eddie Bauer Expedition. I suspect he paid somewhat in the high 30's. Made me stop and think if a Navi is worth an extra $10K, assuming a loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition would go for the Low $40's. Did anyone else consider an Expedition and what was your deciding factor to go with the Navi?

    I ran a KBB Used Car Trade on a 2003 Navi w/ 24K Miles and a comparable 2003 Eddie Bauer Expedition 24K Miles and the difference on trade is $7450, so maybe there is a market different, at least I hope.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    Depends on your priorities. The Nav has a much nicer interior, better suspension, better tranny, etc.

    Look at and drive both - if you still like the Expy then go for it and save the money. But don't be surprised if you prefer the Nav even with the price premium.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The bottom line is, you can get an EB that will do almost everything the Nav will do except the power running boards, I think - but the Navigator interior is unique. If you are like me, the interior is important because it's where I live. How the car drives and how it looks and feels inside are #1 & 2, and that make the Nav worth the extra bucks for me. If those priorities are lower for you, the EB will do the job, and save some money.
  • njbaran99njbaran99 Posts: 69
    Should have mentioned this, but I bought the Navi and we were comparing after the fact.

    As I have 3 little ones, I went for the 2nd Row Bench, as my little guys (all boys, 1 is on they way) do not need a Center Console and with 3, would have required me to put one in the back all the time. For me, I wanted the passenger seating.

    Since we only have 2 boys now, I put the center 2nd row seat down, which makes a nice carpented table for their toys (they are 2 1/2 and 6 yrs old).

    I gave up the deployable running boards, as you can't have those with the 2nd Row 40/20/40, but in all honesty, when I test drove one with the Deployable running boards, for me (i'm 6') not needing them, the actually got in my way as they are much bigger to step over.

    I drove the Expedition a month or so back and it felt too trucky to me where the Navi does.

    Now, since I bought, I hope I can afford to drive with the forecast on gas prices. Yikers.
  • I have a 2001 Navigator with Power Seats but not Heated. I have acquired Heated/AC seats from the same model year. Does anyone know if these are compatible? I called the local Ford dealer and they said I need a module for the dash and need to run tubes from the Heat and A/C and the wiring goes on to the tail lights, etc and it could be upwards of $1500 to install. From my research, these are self contained units and most likely only need electrical hookups, but I'm not sure if I need a new harness or not. If you know anything about these types of seats and if they can be interchanged at a reasonable cost, let me know.
  • HI! I just want to thank you for your many recent posts! We are undecided between an Escalade and a Navigator. Your input has helped me... especially sharing your pricing info. Did you consider the Escalade when you were looking?
  • clk55clk55 Posts: 1
    I am interested in a 05 Navi... How did you get such a great deal?? Is the gas mileage getting any better?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Yes, I considered an Escalade when I traded my 99 Navigator for my 03 Navigator - but Cadillac was still so far behind on the features, there was no comparison. All Cadillac has to offer as an advantage is the more powerful engine. If that's priority #1, get the Escalade. But the Lincoln has plenty of power for my needs, I've never needed more than it gives me, even when towing. The power folding 3rd seats are a main priority for me. Even today, I was shopping for routine stuff, and came across a large TV on sale. Picked one up while I was there on impulse. Since I have the Navigator, I just folded down the 3rd row seats with 2 power buttons, and the big box went right in. Had I bought the Escalade, I would have had to either go home, get rid of the back seats, and return to the store for the TV, or leave the seats at the store, and take the TV home and come back for the seats. That convenience alone is worth everything else put together to make the decision to get the Navigator for me. Other features also add to the list though, including the Air Conditioned front seats, the power running boards, the independent rear suspension, the 3 Valve OHC Engine, the Power Liftgate. The Navigator has a ton of features the Escalade just hasn't come up to date with yet - other than that 6L engine.

    I just got back from a 3 day trip to Death Valley, traveling 750 miles on roads that Navigator really should ever be taken on probably. I shook the doors off that truck on the worst washboard roads I've ever been on for hundreds of miles, seeing every inch of that national park for 2 days like a mule would. When we were done, and back on the highway to come home, the truck settled right back on the highway, as solid, quiet and perfect as ever, without a rattle, squeak or malfunction, like all that shaking, jarring and bouncing ever happened.

    I'm telling you, this truck is built Ford Tough. I highly recommend it.
  • I two have had two Navigators. If you are going to have any problems with a car it should be a Navigator. The service department is the nicest I have ever seen. I have only been in for services and one ride height sensor but they always act like I own the place.
    Also Toyota has Consumer Reports in their back pocket. Noone ever mentioned the HUGE sludge problem that Toyota had with every v6 they made in the late 90s or the fact that EVERYONE who uses a tundra for hard work tears up the transmission. YOU WILL NEVER HEAR ABOUT THESE THINGS.

    I LOVE MY NAVIGATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will buy an 07 with the next body style change.
  • njbaran99njbaran99 Posts: 69
    As I think I mentioned above, my 05' Navi MSRP'ed at $64K Ultimate, with Monoton Pkg, Two Prep, HID, Rear Entertainment and 2nd Row Bench, so no Deployable Running Boards, as they are fixed. My negotiated price was $52K. I think it started out as $52,500, but found out that I qualified for X-Plan Pricing thru Ford Partners and with re-work of the deal saved another $500. The Deal is essentially Invoice Less Rebates, and maybe a few more bucks off. Go deal, I hope so, but with Gas heading the $3 a gallon, I suspect incentives may improve.

    MPG, seems to be getting better, 2nd tank was about 11.4 MPG in the CIty and I do mean City, not much open road at all, so yes, it seems to be improving.

    Finished all the aftermarket adds, so I better plan to keep this one.

    Ford ESP Premium-Care Extended Warranty 6 yr /100 K Miles $50 Deduct
    Ford Regular Maintenenace: 6 yr / 100K
    Dent Armor Policy: 5 Yr / 72K Miles (All Door Dings Repaired for $0 Add'l Cost)
    Protector Plan for 5 Yrs (Paint, Leather, Carpet, Undercoat); I think this helped with the Egg Hit mentioned above
    Alarm with Remote Start (upgrade previous Remote Start to get a Full 2-Way Alarm)
    Daytime Running Lamps
    Rear View Camera; Tied into Nav Screen, also can play Rear DVD on Front Screen
    Clear Bra: Front Leading Edge of car and Lower Rocker Panels Around
    Acccessories: All-Weather Mats, Cargo Tray, and Mud Flaps

    Now if I can only afford to drive it.
  • jb7227jb7227 Posts: 86
    Well, finally this week I should be picking up my '05 Ultimate - special ordered on January 7th!! Question for njbaran99 - how much $$ for the 6yr/100K extended warranty? I never really considered one before but since I am buying the Nav and not leasing, I may actually keep this one past 50K miles. Also, is the Nav system in the Ultimate DVD based now, or still CD based? I was curious if you have the ability to play DVD's on the Nav screen with the car in Park? Anyone out there equip their Nav with Sirius? If so, and the experience has been positive, I may tell the dealer to put it in before I pick it up. Good move getting the autobond for the front end, I have it with my Aviator and because the front end is upright it catches every rock kicked up from the road! Without the clear bra, one could go broke buying touch up paint.
  • njbaran99njbaran99 Posts: 69
    I bought the 6 yr/100K $50 Deductible Per Visit for $1865. I compared to Aftermarkets WarrantyByNet and WarrantyDirect and it seemed to be a good deal, since it's Ford Backed.

    I also opted for the Full Maintenance for 6 Yr/100K for $1550, as the Navi has a 5K Oil Change Recommendation and 30K Trans Service, plus it covered Belts, Hoses, Brake Pads, Shocks etc.

    Navigation is DVD-based with Full Country Coverage, which asked you to select Regions. The Voice Activated Audio/Navigation is pretty cool.

    The Navigation Door is on the Right Lower Side of the Console. I did not even think of playing a DVD in it, but I tried it and it does not work. It just asked for the DVD Map.

    I did add an aftermarket rear view camera with a NavTV Module that allows both the rear view camera and rear DVD Player to be played on the Nav Screen. I have 2 toggle switches to turn the Aux source as an input and then toggle between Rear Camera and Rear DVD.

    I got the Clear Bra on the Leading Edge and most of the Lower Racker Panels and on the Running Boards, as I did get the monotone Appearance Pkg. Also got the upper part of the Rear Bumper and 4" Up the Rear Hatch. Kit Also included the Side View Mirrors. I opted for the 40 Mil Xpel Headlamp and Fog Light Covers. I have a black Navi, so protecting the paint is a key.

    If you need any pics of the install, send me an e-mail: njbaran2@comcast.net
  • jb7227jb7227 Posts: 86
    Thanks for the info!! I called my dealer and told him to install the Autobond (clear bra) on the front end and front lower rocker panels (they charged $500). Did you "crunch" the numbers on the 6/100 full maintenance plan? I was trying myself to estimate - since the 1st year of recommended maintenance is free, it would be roughly 15 to 17 oil changes (at $40 per), plus the tranny service ($ ?) (assuming 15,000 miles per year). Is the 15K interval services included as well (tire rotation, lube, etc.)?? I guess if just one of the air shocks go it's worth it!!

    Good luck with the ride - it sounds great!! Cant wait ... two more days!!
  • ksspyderksspyder Posts: 2
    nj - Tell me about the Daytime Running Lamps? I would like to add them also
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Man, u did it up right.

    I like th idea of the rear view camera. Are u saying that not only can u see the camera scene on the Nav screen, but u can see the DVD playing on the rear entertainment center as well? (not at the same time of course:>)

    Can u point me to a source for the camera and the NavTV module? Thanks
  • njbaran99njbaran99 Posts: 69
    The DayTime Running Lamps are an aftermarket adds, as Ford makes a module for the DRLs, but it operates the High Beams, which on the Navi are HID (well, on most). So the Aftermarket Module Runs the High Beams at 75% Intensity, when the Lights aren't on (Auto or By the Switch). One problem is if you keep the Auto Setting with Fogs On (that is how I do it as I like using the Fogs at Night for appearance and ease of seeing the road), the Fog Lights come on when the DRLs are on. I can push the Light Switch In (turn off the Fogs), but then I have to remember to turn them on when it gets dark. Not sure who the manufacture is, but I can try to find out. I live in Chicago and had an aftermarket shop install them.

    On the Camera and DVD playing on the Nav Screen, I have 2 Toggle Switches on the lower Console. Toggle 1: Switched Factory Signal (Audio/Navigation) to Aux Inputs (Camera/Rear DVD). Toggle 2: Switches between Rear Camera and Rear DVD. Unlike most Factory Installed Camera, this work all the time, if you prefer, so you can be driving down the road with the Rear-view Camera on. Same for the DVD. I think the front Navigation Screen looks better then the Rear DVD. The NavTV module (has 2 Inputs) is mounted somewhere in the console. All it really is, is a RGB-Sync Switch where the aftermarket shop spliced the NavTV into the signal going to the Nav Screeen . You can still Fast FWD the DVD, if you remember where the TouchScreen Location is, pretty cool. You can only see one source at a time, but the toggles are easy to reach, even for my wife.

    I better plan to keep this Navi for a while, as I am sure these add-ons wont' fetch didly when I go to Sell. I have 2 little ones, with a Third on the way, which while the BackUp Sensor sound tones, seeing behind is nice. I have the Camera mounted pretty high inside the Rear Glass, so I pick-up part of the rear Wiper-Blade, but can't see the bumper, maybe 6" from it.

    If you want any pics of the above, send me an e-mail at njbaran2@comcast.net.
  • njbaran99njbaran99 Posts: 69
    I just turned 1100 Miles on the my 2005 Navi Ultimate and per the On-Board Computer, I am getting ~11.4 MPG (mostly city). Is this what others are getting? I am running Mid-grade 89 Octane, given the current gas prices. May run a test with Premium next tank-full.

    I am surprises how accurate the On-Board MPG Computer is, it's almost Dead-on. My prior car, a BMW X5 was off by at least 1.0 - 1.5 MPG, stating a higher MPG than actually acheived.

    Also, anyone pulling a Camper with the Navi and if so, how much weight and at what Height. I was how much the MPG Suffers while towing.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    First of all, shame on you for running 89 octane in your Nav.... You buy the premium SUV, but are too cheap to pony up for the quality gas for that thoroughbred engine? Makes no sense to me. Maybe you should have got the Expedition. Anyway, I get 13 MPG in town with Premium Shell 91 octane. Incidently, my engineer friends tell me that you'll get your savings back in performance by putting the right grade gas in the engine. I've not tested it in this car, I trust the guys with the engineering degrees, and for the $2 it saves me per week to be cheap, I can handle it.
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