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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Ummm a Hemi killing a Northstar, I think not !!!! It's pretty damn sad when a Lucerne will keep up if not out run a Dodge Hemi, which speaking of is ancient. The damn thing gets what 9 mpg. city and 16 hwy ? Chrysler's engine line-up is a absolute joke. The 3.5, yeah that's real powerful :confuse: The Lucerne's suspension blows the LX platform away because of Magneride, something you can't get on your Whimpi V8 Charger. :P The LaCrosse Super has been recalibrated as well. What's this mouse fur interior you speak of ? :confuse: The interior quality of these Buick's blows away anything in Chrysler's history. Night and day in comparison. Even the beloved 300C has a spartan interior and that is Chrysler's flagship sedan. The Lacrosse Super runs the same 0-60 times as the Charger (5.7) and it suffers a 45 hp defecit. :D Tell me which one is a joke, now ? Give me the LaCrosse/Lucerne Super, as they are indeed "Super" compared top anything Ford or Chrysler makes right now. Those are just plain facts. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Also, the Buick has a horrible soft suspension (struts)versus the double-wishbone LX cars which are way better for handling. Buick is a much cheaper car to build.

    You better go do some research and get back to me. There will be nothing soft about either one of these sedans. They upgraded all the weakness's. The LaCrosse, sure had a soft suspension as that what normal customer's of Buick's expect. The hardware on the LaCrosse has been upgraded torwards handling and performance. This is just the tip of the iceberg of things to come from buick. ;) The Lucerne, gets a recalibrated tuned version of Delphi Magneride suspension which will make the car handle as well a lot of RWD cars. Magneride is used on Cadillac's, Corvette's, the Lucerne CSX, Holden Commodore HSV, a Ferrari, and I think a Audi. It's proven. The only one better is the ultra expensive Bose. ;)

    The LX, is a decent platform. No doubt. I'd rather own a car that handles as well will handle better in 2011 once it goes RWD, and I'd rather drive in Bank Vault quiet comfort, than listen to the squeaks and rattles that come standard on every Chrysler product. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well those mouse fur interiors of old are better made than the plasticky chrysler cars made today. Good god the Mercedes C-Class that's about to come out shows signs of cost cutting on the interior. I laughed and said to some of my friends that the G8, has a much better looking interior than the new Mercedes C-Class. :D

    Rocky
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    in order of finish at these 'imaginery' 0-60 drags we stage ;)
    1) Chrysler 300c/Charger R/T
    2) Impala SS
    3) Avalon
    4) Maxima
    5) Azera
    6) Lucerne Northstar
    and after that we get into some really underpowered vehicles, that don't belong at the races. FE OTH should look like this:
    1) Avalon
    2) Maxima
    3) Azera
    4) Lucerne Northstar
    5) Impala SS
    6) 300C/Charger
    The Avalon, BTW, just received Edmund's lowest cost to own award of all vehicles in this class - despite being one of the most expensive to drive off the lot - oh my oh my how could this be?
  • batistabatista Posts: 159
    a Lucerne will keep up if not out run a Dodge Hemi, which speaking of is ancient

    Who are you kidding? The Lucerne 4.6L was tested by Car and Driver to reach 60mph in 6.9 seconds. It's basically a slug for a V8. The "Hemi" name is ancient but the engine is relatively new (2003) even though it is a pushrod design.

    The damn thing gets what 9 mpg. city and 16 hwy ? Chrysler's engine line-up is a absolute joke. The 3.5, yeah that's real powerful

    Even with the newer and stricter fuel economy ratings it achieved 15mpg city and 23mpg highway. Check it
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=23610-
    Which is identical to the slow poke Buick Lucerne
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=23282-

    The 3.5, yeah that's real powerful The Lucerne's suspension blows the LX platform away because of Magneride, something you can't get on your Whimpi V8 Charger. The LaCrosse Super has been recalibrated as well. What's this mouse fur interior you speak of ?

    I would say 250HP is quite good out of 3.5L. Not the best but way better than a 3.8L that can't even achieve 200HP.
    What wimpy about 350HP and 390 ft/lbs?
    Where is this super sport? It's not even out yet and Dodge is going to come out with a Challenger 6.4L engine. Not to mention the 6.1L that puts out 425HP.

    What's this mouse fur interior you speak of ?

    The interior ceiling of the car!

    The Lacrosse Super runs the same 0-60 times as the Charger (5.7) and it suffers a 45 hp defecit. Tell me which one is a joke, now ?

    So what if it reaches 60 in 5.7 seconds when its nearly impossible to steer? FWD V8's are a joke.
    When is GM going to understand this?
    I don't think many people are going to understand your facts!
  • batistabatista Posts: 159
    Not sure what FE OTH is?
    Yeah, captain I know the Avalon is the most fuel efficient
    at 20 and 28 Hwy.

    What is up with Rockylee?
    Hardcore GM guy to the point where he can't understand anything?
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Who are you kidding? The Lucerne 4.6L was tested by Car and Driver to reach 60mph in 6.9 seconds. It's basically a slug for a V8. The "Hemi" name is ancient but the engine is relatively new (2003) even though it is a pushrod design.

    I meant LaCrosse "Super" with the 5.3 LS-4 300 hp V8 ;)

    The Lucerne "Super" gets the 292 hp version of the Northstar which should knock off a couple of tenths of the 0-60 times.

    Even with the newer and stricter fuel economy ratings it achieved 15mpg city and 23mpg highway. Check it
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=23610- - - -
    Which is identical to the slow poke Buick Lucerne
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=23282- - - -


    I was talking about real world numbers not some fictious number made up by the EPA, as I know of no Chrysler product that meets let alone beats it's EPA numbers. I have friends that own the Hemi Charger, Hemi 300C, and they aren't happy about their fuel economy numbers. Dodge Trucks it only get's worse. The 9 mpg city and 12 hwy is accurate for one of my co-workers. ;)

    I would say 250HP is quite good out of 3.5L. Not the best but way better than a 3.8L that can't even achieve 200HP.

    The 3800 is a great engine. Was voted one of the best engines of the 20th century.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_3800_engine

    I'd rather have the proven 3800 than the unproven 3.5. If we did race you'd have tow a roller underneath to catch your typical chrysler transmission. :P

    What wimpy about 350HP and 390 ft/lbs?
    Where is this super sport? It's not even out yet and Dodge is going to come out with a Challenger 6.4L engine. Not to mention the 6.1L that puts out 425HP.


    This is a joke, right ? Comparing Chrysler to GM, is indeed a joke. GM, outpowers Chrysler on about every level. The G8 makes quick work of the Hemi. The Vette Makes quick work of the Viper, The CTS-V makes quick work of the SRT-8 Charger, 300C. Oh okay you guys win two with the SRT-8 Cherokee and SRT-10 Dodge Ram, well for maybe a year or two longer. When your not winning 0-60 times you still have to live with a car or truck that is cheaply put togeather not because of the workers but because of the engineering. That's something I'd prefer not have to deal with. :P

    The interior ceiling of the car!

    http://www.buick.com/lucerne/gallery_360view_int.jsp

    I see no mouse fur unless I'm blinde ? :shades:

    So what if it reaches 60 in 5.7 seconds when its nearly impossible to steer? FWD V8's are a joke.

    Well FWD, does have it's advantages at it is lighter, offers more interior room, and you can drive the vehicle year around if you get snow. Magneride, helps eliminate some flaws of FWD. ;)

    When is GM going to understand this?

    Problems are being addressed. It's called ZETA. Zeta, will spring a RWD Impala, in 2009 buh bye Charger, 300C. :D
    It will also give to us this fall the Pontiac G8, 2011 Lucerne/DTS both which will be RWD, will give us a RWD Buick Velite Sedan, and perhaps a Convertible. Oh yeah it also gives you a Challenger [non-permissible content removed] kicking Chevy Camaro, which should run laps around that beast called
    Challenger.-grin :blush: :P

    I don't think many people are going to understand your facts!

    Well last time I checked GM was still #1 here in North America and in the world. So I think the majority does agree with my thinking :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    What is up with Rockylee?
    Hardcore GM guy to the point where he can't understand anything?


    I'm sorry but the Honyota Kool-Aid is a bit to spiked for me. ;) I needed a different brand. :blush:

    Rocky
  • batistabatista Posts: 159
    I was talking about real world numbers not some fictious number made up by the EPA, as I know of no Chrysler product that meets let alone beats it's EPA numbers. I have friends that own the Hemi Charger, Hemi 300C, and they aren't happy about their fuel economy numbers. Dodge Trucks it only get's worse. The 9 mpg city and 12 hwy is accurate for one of my co-workers.

    EPA recently revised methods for estimating vehicle fuel economy to better represent current driving styles and conditions. The new methods—which apply to model year 2008 and later vehicles—include the city and highway tests used for previous models along with additional tests to represent:

    Faster Speeds and Acceleration
    Air Conditioner Use
    Colder Outside Temperatures
    MPG estimates will also be adjusted downward to account for factors that are difficult to replicate in a laboratory, such as wind and road surface resistance.

    The 3800 is a great engine. Was voted one of the best engines of the 20th century.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_3800_engine

    I'd rather have the proven 3800 than the unproven 3.5. If we did race you'd have tow a roller underneath to catch your typical chrysler transmission.


    The 3800 is a horrible engine. I had it in my 01 Impala and its a leaker. The intake manifold leaks coolant after a few years.
    Not to mention it sounds horrible when driven hard. Very unrefined engine. I bought a GM car with the 3.8L because I read about it being this so called "great" engine by people like you and the Ward's top engines of the century.

    Also, the GM 4 speed 4T65E is unreliable. Had to have it fixed at 40K miles. First the pressure control solenoid went south then the planetary gear was broken.
    Cost was $3000 at the GM dealership and the PCS fix was $600. So much for that theory.
    The DC 5 speed is a MB design so it should be better than your typical chrysler 4 speed slushbox.

    GM is in much trouble as Chrysler. It relies on fleet sales to get that #1 position. It's just a matter of time before it goes bankrupt.
  • batistabatista Posts: 159
    One more thing:

    I am not the only one who has had premature transmission failures.
    The Lemon Aid book mentions that 2000-2003 GM 4T65 which are used in Impalas, Centurys, Regals, LeSabres, Park Avenue and Bonnevilles suffer from premature transmission failures.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    GM, will never go bankrupt. Chrysler or Ford, maybe. I really feel politians will save the Big 3 from such a disaster. If certain politicians get elected their will be changes implemented in trade laws. The Big 3 employees and unions still represent a big voter base and yes they will have a say. I've read story's on MB's transmissions and they are decent. I know of no one who's had the leaking problem like you describe. Well I guess now I know one. I own a 04' Impala, that I just recently baught and it has the 3800 and I like the heck out of it. Great fuel economy and has more than adequate power for a family car. ;)

    I will keep my fingers crossed and hope I don't have your experience. My 92 Bonneville SSEi was a damn fine car. I drove the hell out of that car and it gave me only one problem which was the computer took a poop on me. Luckily it was covered under my extended warranty. :)

    My Grandma, had a 95' Buick Riveria, and it was trouble free. My unles, aunts have all owned 3800's and have all had no problems. So yeah I have a high opinion of one of the 20th century's greatest engine. :)

    Rocky

    P.S. I've never had any problems with GM transmissions either. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Hmmmmmmm.....Interesting. I have not heard that. :surprise:

    I have heard many transmission problems with Accords and Camry's on this site. So I guess most cars have some sort of a problem. So it seems. Just be thankful you don't own a camry with the engine sludge issue. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • batistabatista Posts: 159
    You should be okay since you have a 04 Impala.
    Just keep an eye on the coolant level in the reservoir.
    Mine kept going down an inch a week. The 3.8L had a recall where GM instructed the dealers to insert crushed walnut shells to block small leaks. Knowing GM I doubt the design changed at all until they switched to 3800 series III.
    The series III has an aluminum intake manifold instead of the plastic one used in series II.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Yeah miata1 aka Loren, told me to watch the intake manifold also. *gulp

    I hope my good luck doesn't run out with this one. :)

    Rocky
  • batistabatista Posts: 159
    Miata1 aka Loren is a regular contributer to this forum who I believe has upgraded to a Honda Accord V6 from a PT Cruiser.
    Didn't know that she owned a GM W body.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    No HE, doesn't but has owned several GM cars in the past and is pretty knowledgable about cars in general. ;)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,705
    Wrong.

    More of that negative GM stuff that people just won't let go.

    This message has been approved.

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I meant LaCrosse "Super" with the 5.3 LS-4 300 hp V8
    frankly didn't know that GM had screwed up the LaCrosse as well by putting that V8 in it - can you say 'torque steer', a problem at the gas pumps, and even more weight imbalance. A real shame because the engine of choice in that car really should be the new 3.6. Leave it to GM to put V8s where they don't belong, just as the Lucerne ought to have the same engine, in lieu of the Northstar. V8s don't belong in FWD cars.
    The 3.8 may indeed one of 'the' best' engines of the last century, if only because they made so many of them, and they don't blow up as you use it as your cocktail shaker ;)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I don't know why some subject lines get gummed up, but please try to be alert and clear out the excess user names. The only one that should be there is the person whose message you were reading when you clicked Reply.

    Thanks! :)
  • allmet33allmet33 Posts: 3,557
    Dborth...don't feel bad, one of the local dealers here hadn't heard of the Veracruz, 3 months before it dropped!!! The Gensis is now being shown on the Hyundai USA website.
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