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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    If you're scared, just say you're scared...nobody will laugh at you or think any less of you either. :blush:
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    allmet33, that's very mature of you and from now on I know how seriously should I take your post...

    Again, I have no problem with people testing out their cars to the limit on say an abandoned runway. Because if anything happened, they die alone. However, driving 140+ mph on a highway with other people is just simply stupid. If you want to risk your life that's fine but don't drag other innocent folks with you.

    Have I done 130+ mph? Heck yeah. But again that was on an abandoned construction site...
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    There isn't any reason to accuse people of being "scared" because they do not choose to put themselves and others at unnecessary and foolish risk seeing how fast they can go. Let's back off the personal comments, please.

    It is time to drop this whole line of conversation; we've beaten it into the ground. Let's move on.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Just because half of you are getting ready to be over the hill (if not there already), doesn't mean that there aren't some of us that aren't. There are those of us that can and will do the very things you all did when you were younger and adventurous.

    Now that you've insulted many of the readers...

    Actually driving 130+ mph on public roads isn't proper no matter how young you are. If you have an accident and cause no harm to anyone other than yourself, the police have to becalled, the paramedics services have to be invoked, the hospitals have to be used and bill probably paid by others who do pay their bills for covering the several injuries and months of recuperation, the nursing home costs-same thing. It does involve the public even if only you are there and hurt.

    Perhaps the silliness in TN last weekend with a drag racer burning out at high speeds with the public lining both sides of a public street can serve as an example. I heard the drag racer's father blaming the people in the crowd... Huh? Actually I feel the city and police have a high culpability here. We'll see if attorneys pick up on that.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I'm sure you replied before you saw my post above yours, but we're going to change the subject now. :)
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    My 141 was in rural Kansas, with 5 miles plus vision of straight, no traffic road ahead and no crossroads, very light/no wind, recently re paved. It was a one time thing, as I agree that it would be stupid to try and do that regularly even on good interstates. I doubt anyone posting here is advocating that kind of speed. However, if you live out in the West (Colo, Idaho, Nev, Wyo, Mont), speed limits are 75 and it is not unusual to be doing 90, at least occasionally.

    I only point out that the Azera is capable of those types of speeds. The tires are V rated and it did feel very stable to me. I have no idea of what its real top end is, or how well designed it is to do those kinds of speeds. It may be that it can well handle 150+ plus speeds, but I am not out to prove it to myself or anyone else. I would be curious for one of the car mag's to actually run it all out and see how it does at even higher speeds. I am guessing that with most cars having limiters, that it is one of very few sedans that could even hit 150 these days (not counting the German makes).
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    Just noted the Host wanting to change subjects. It does seem to me that a few years back, it was pretty common for car reviews to test the top speed of all cars they reviewed and to list them. So, it seems to me that in a forum comparing mainstream large sedans, knowing their top speed and 0-60 times, is of some significance. How a car is engineered and equipped to handle high speeds or rapid acceleration are indications of how much emphasis the manufacturer puts on the performance capability of the car. It also lets the consumer know how much "reserve" there is in the car above the normal use of the car. For example, if the car is only capable of 100mph, whether through tires, aerodynamic design, suspension, engine power, etc. It would tell many that drive long distances where speeds (legal or not) are often in excess of 80 (only 5 mph over the speed limit), that driving at 80 is nearing the car's limit and may influence the decision of what car to purchase.

    So, I believe that top speed (stock) is instructive for consumers, but not necessarily a goal to achieve for drivers.
  • vic10vic10 Member Posts: 188
    Seems like for the past DECADE, this forum has been about Hyundai. There ARE other mainstream large sedans out there.... (And there is probably a separate forum for all those Hyundai lovers out there.) As for me, I still have a hard time accepting Toyota so you an imagine how I would rate a Hyundai.... How about some variety here?
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Pat...seriously, if someone is going to take me saying they're scared to heart, they need to take a look at themselves. I don't know that person and I don't know what he/she has done in their lifetime. That being said, why take that statement seriously in any sense? If you notice, the whole sentence was followed by an Emotorcon...it was not said with seriousness!!! SHEESH!!!

    Without knowing the circumstances of my doings, they are simply assuming that I put others at risk with my forays into the 100+ mph range. Just to clarify, this was done on a very long stretch of road (very well known to myself), with very limited access from side streets, no traffic lights, calm weather and most of all...NO OTHER CARS!!!

    Times that I have attempted to reach 130+ mph, if I saw a car ahead...I aborted until another time. So I don't need anyone to preach to me about how morally unacceptable it is to drive MY car at any speed above 100 mph. There is NOBODY that posts in any of these forums that is 100% morally perfect.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Okay...since all posts must be serious in nature.

    Tell me, louiswei, why is the discussion about how fast the Azera can go or how quickly it goes from 0-60 is just so stupid? 0-60 times have been spoken about before in THIS forum...it's one of the things folks look at when buying a car becuase it is something that is put out there.

    The only reason the top speed issue came about for me is because I mentioned that I prefer to find out what any vehicle I own is capable of so that I know how it acts in any given situation. Knowing your vehicle completely and how it would responde to any given variable is one of the BEST ways to drive defensively because you have the confidence of knowing what your car can and can't do.

    Everyone has taken my posts to think that run out here and do this type of stuff in the middle of rush hour traffic, or on a road with a bunch of stop lights, or in the city around a bunch of pedestrians. I can understand if I said I was on I-95 at 3:00 p.m. doing this type of thing...yeah, that should raise some eyebrows and have folks ripping me a new one. I am 36, not 16...I do know the importance of safety of others as well as my own safety. If I didn't think I was capable or my vehicle was capable and the place where I was accomodating...I wouldn't do it.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Hey Vic10...we've also talked about the Avalon, Maximan, Charger/300, 500/Taurus, Impala, Lucerne and a few others as well. Which cars would YOU like to discuss?
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    "Seems like for the past DECADE, this forum has been about Hyundai"

    Huh... I think that we touch on most of the cars in the discussion. The Azera owners definitely are passionate about their cars so they tend to speak up when someone mentions them. That's a good thing!

    Do you read this forum often? We have had lengthy discussions that didn't even involve the Azera.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Allmet33, please move on.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    heard a report that the new 500 (aka Taurus) has finally started arriving at some dealers - anybody out there had a chance to actually drive one, comments on the 'new' engine or general impressions?
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    why is the discussion about how fast the Azera can go or how quickly it goes from 0-60 is just so stupid? 0-60 times have been spoken about before in THIS forum

    entirely different things - acceleration times whether they be 0-60 or 5-60 and even 40 or 50-70 do have some real life and real driving situation applications. Spending a whole lot of time arguing about even a few tenths of a second one way or the other also means very very little except on a dragstrip. I assure you that buyers of sedans in this class have little interest in 'pink slip' racing. Go to a Mustang GT forum for that kind of stuff...
    The differences in drivability, however, among the cars in this forum between say an Avalon, Azera, or a Maxima vs. something like a Lucerne 3.8 , the 300 2.7, the 200hp Optima, and/or the old 500 is significant and IMO should mean something to most buyers in this group.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    sorry, I meant the older 3.5 liter Amanti (not Optima), and forgot to include the 3.5 Impalas in the 'challenged' group.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    And I have contributed to these discussions as well. However, what you may feel as irrelevant someone else may find some relevance in it. Even if it's just one other person.

    Personally, if you don't like a particular conversation, don't contribute to it. There have been several in this forum that I have stayed out of simply because I didn't care for that conversation or feel I had anything to contribute to it. Simply put, if I don't like it...I leave it alone and either start a conversation for wait until one comes up that I feel I can contribute to.

    If you don't like rap music, are you going to complain about it or play what you like and just not listen to it?
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    "'challenged' group"

    I like your wording there... what's funny is that there are many people that will disagree with you, saying that those vehicles have plenty of power.

    Recently on a Fusion test drive with my Stepdad he thought the V6 was fine and considering he is driving a 4cyl Camry it felt strong. Now when I told him that the same engine was in the 500 he realized why I always said the resaon I didn't buy one was it was underpowered.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    yep it is all a question of personal perspective and expectations, isn't it? From my own perspective, the differences in these engines is what makes or breaks the cars built around them, in terms of not only HP but also in how refined they are. As I think I metioned before, I was relatively impressed with the 500 until I turned the key - but it really wasn't a fair comparison I had just got done test driving the Avalon I ended up buying - I guess we have something in common, you and I?
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    Drove the 500 right when they came out because I was at the dealer with a friend who was picking up his new truck. While we were waiting I asked how they drove and they handed me the keys to a demo. I still had 8 months or so left on my '03 Avalon lease so I wasn't ready to buy yet. I liked the way the car drove, buy noticed it wasn't as responsive as my Avalon (which was no rocket) Anyway, I drove it (500) again before the '06 Avalon and the rest is history. Curious to see how the new model does with the increased power.... will demand pick up? On a side note I was certainly surprised to see a $1500 rebate on the Fusion, I thought they were selling?

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Member Posts: 234
    Amen. :D

    And when they are all done producing that new updated Maxima, I will bet it still won't measure up to the current Azera!

    :)
  • alexstorealexstore Member Posts: 264
    one magazine recently talking about new Hyundai SUV said the following "The build quality seems to fit the low price". Even though I am a little disappointed with 07 Maxima redesign, there is no reason even to measure it up to Azera. If you drive SE version, you will love and you will enjoy every moment doing it. Unlike Azera, whose ride is similar to Buicks of the late 1990's, 3.8 L engine with wavy design reminds me of 1999 Buick Regal.
    If hyundai were producing a superior vehicle, to vehicles in this forum , then their 3.8 should produce 330+ hp like nissan does in 3.7.
  • sergio19sergio19 Member Posts: 90
    I could only imagine the anticipation you had in posting this message...Just like a kid waiting to open his gift!
    The only difference in your part is that you couldn't wait to rub it in to all Azera owners!

    Your remark proves it!

    It boggles my mind what some peoples agenda are!
    How truly sad! :confuse:

    FYI.
    My buddy has a Maxima and I have an Azera.
    You see we truly BOTH enjoy our cars and truly both respect each others decision in our purchases.
    No-one rubs anyones face in.

    Regards,
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Curious to see how the new model does with the increased power
    Really? Had not read anything about this, what are the specs if you know, wonder if they are going to use the direct injected FSE variant and my big question WHY? The car is already the quickest (and most economical) in its category! IMO, if they do use the FSE at something like the 300hp+ they get in the IS, it may be too much for a FWD layout. One of the things that I appreciate most about my current Avalon is that it doesn't display any of that torque steer common to many higher HP FWD sedans
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I think he meant the 500 Taurus.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    rereading the post, you are probably right.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Alexstore...come on now! Just because an engine displaces 3.8 L, doesn't mean it should be producing 330+ hp. It also has nothing to do with superiority.

    What magazine were you reading that said the Veracruz build quality matched it's low price??? Every article I've read on the Veracruz has given it very good marks in build quality. I know because it was on our list when we looked for a CUV to buy. We ended up getting the Saturn Outlook...anyway. The Veracruz costs close to $40K fully loaded, that makes it the most expensive Hyundai to date and price-wise...runs with most of the other cross-over vehicles out there. I'm beginning to believe that you're just a Hyundai hater.

    MSN Veracruz Article
    Autobytel Verazruz blurb
    Car & Driver Veracruz Article
    Motor Trend Veracruz Article

    You would only like driving a Maxima if you like the hard sport tuned suspension it has to offer. For the younger crowd that likes to zoom and zip along, it's perfect. For the sedate, mature crowd...a nice highway cruiser fits the bill...and the Azera accomplishes that goal competently.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    If hyundai were producing a superior vehicle, to vehicles in this forum , then their 3.8 should produce 330+ hp like nissan does in 3.7.

    Hyundai Lambda eninges can be tuned upwards of 300hp+ - FYI. The emphasis was more on fuel economy than horsepowers. Also, the 3.7 on the G37 is not moving over to Nissan Maxima anytime soon, at least not to my knowledge.
  • alexstorealexstore Member Posts: 264
    My response was not addressed at you. I meant it for derrelhgreen .
    The article I am referring to is about Santa fe comparison with murano and highlander.
    Now allmet. Mature people are buying BMWs exactly for it. To enjoy their ride.
    I have 1994 Buick as my second car But its not as much fun to drive as Maxima. Plus since I drive over 100 miles daily I needed reliable car and maxima proved to be one. So far with over 40k miles not a single glitch.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    The article I am referring to is about Santa fe comparison with murano and highlander.

    Care to link us the article?

    AFAIK, almost every review/comparison has given high overall grade to the Santa Fe vs. the competition.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    Hey Cap, you know I love the Avalons second best -- great car ($ for $). just wondering, can you turn the vehicle skid control/traction control completely off in the Avalons?? I got tar on my tires last night and then was on some small gravel -- sounded like I was being sandblasted from below (and I was). Anyway, I stopped turned off the ESC (on Hyundai that's what they call it) and basically did a burnout to get the damn stuff off the tires. I found out you can smoke the front tires without too much trouble, didn't realize that until the ESC was off. Just curious about the Avalon (or OTHER MAINSTREAM LARGE SEDANS lol)?
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Well...you did say new Hyundai SUV and the only new one they have is the Veracruz. The Santa Fe is just redesigned (thank goodness).

    People who by BMW's want performance and that's exactly what BMW offers. It has nothing to do with being mature because if you recall your poll of the average age of Azera owners...there were a lot of mature folks buying Azeras.

    Glad to hear your Max is proving to be the reliable daily driver you need it to be. With about 37K miles on my Azera, it has proven be very reliable as well.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    the straight answer to your questions are yes and no. Yes my Av will 'burn some rubber' in the unlikely event that anybody would have any cause to, and my particular Avalon is thankfully not equipped with VSC/ESC/Trac. The Avalon's system for those that paid for it(as well as other Toyota/Lexus) products can be disabled but only thru the most convoluted sequence of brake and parking brake applications known to mankind. In effect then it is NOT user switchable, a function that I guess is good to have on the Hyundai products but honestly of negligible value (if you think about it) simply because it automatically rearms itself every time you start the car.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    I did mean the Taurus. I was rambling a bit...

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    The TRAC/VSC system in the Avalon is not that invasive. It will allow a little wheel spin. This is so much better than previous Toyotas. My '00 Solara would kick in at the slightest spin and cut power to the engine, if you needed to make a fast turn you would have to switch it off. But, at least it had a switch.

    "can be disabled but only thru the most convoluted sequence of brake and parking brake applications known to mankind"

    Couldn't have said that better myself, I actually keep a copy of the instructions, in the unlikely event that I have to shut it off if I get stuck in the snow.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    What Motor Trend had to say about the Santa Fe....

    "Another leap for Hyundai in quality and design--does just about everything well."

    Motor Trend Santa Fe Article
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Glad to hear the the Av system is not that invasive which to me is a little strange given the age demographic of the Avalon driver in general. But this is good as it is damn near impossible to find any new Av without VSC/Trac anyway and I'm guessing that it will become standard in 08. Helps me with what now ought to be a easy decision when I look to replace the one I have :D
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The Santa Fe is considered a mainstream sedan these days? Well, that's what all this crossover stuff'll do for ya, I reckon..;)
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    I would think that if my Solara with the 200HP 3.0 easily made the TC kick in, someone at Yota must have figured it would have been way too sensitive for something with 70 more HP. My '03 Avalon didn't have it, funny thing I never missed it.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Toyota/Lexus have always seemed to take a more aggressive approach to protecting us from ourselves as well as paying the most heed to their own liability lawyers. It is a shame that it has to come to all of this and even worse that our silly government gets involved. Put me on snow covered roads and I'd rather be driving your 03 with no interference than either your current Av or certainly that Solara.
  • vic10vic10 Member Posts: 188
    Yes, the Taurus. Having just rented a 500 for a business trip, I can say it succeeds in a lot of categories but one of them is not speed. Not sure a bigger engine will help that much if they don't fix the transmission. On that car when you kicked it down, you could go out for coffee before it decided to downshift...and then all you heard was noise, not much acceleration. And on a 600 mile trip I only averaged 28.5 mpg. Did the same trip last Oct in my 300C and averaged 26 mpg.
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    Luckily there's a new 6 speed transmission to go along with that great new 3.5 engine. I test drove the new Taurus, drives like a dream.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    was aware that Ford had discontinued the CVT on the new Taurus but never read anything that said they were changing the 6 speed tranny. I did read somewhere that Ford and GM had pooled resources (or the lack of them) into a 'joint'effort at a 6 speed. Maybe what you experienced on your test drive was the same 6 speed used with the GM 3.6 for some time now? Does anybody know? Would be interested on your comments on how refined (smoothness, quietness, eagerness to rev) you found the 3.5?
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    I'm on the run right now, but for a brief description on one of my many test drives so far, go here - LINK
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    From what I have read the 6 speed is the one you are referring to, its being used in the Edge, MKX, and Taurus/Sable on the GM side it is being used in the Acadia triplets and the 3.6 Aura.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Having just rented a 500 for a business trip, I can say it succeeds in a lot of categories but one of them is not speed. Not sure a bigger engine will help that much if they don't fix the transmission. On that car when you kicked it down, you could go out for coffee before it decided to downshift

    Shoulda rented one with the AWD (which means it would've had the CVT) . . then you wouldn't have experienced that problem. :P
  • alexstorealexstore Member Posts: 264
    well there is always a time and place to improve and currently there are 2 cars in 08 I am looking forward to.
    I know that Hyundai lovers will be talking about Genesis, but this not the car I am looking forward to currently.
    2008 CTS AWD with new 3.6
    2008 G8 with v8 - which falls into large category with length of 196". The competition between Hemi and GM 6.0 V8 is heating up. In Holden it does 0-60 in 5.7. US version with all extra weight will be probably 5.8-5.9. Can you handle Hopefully price will be 25-35K.

    BTW in reference to 3.7 in Maxima, look at history of nissan and infinity and you can see that once new engine is introduced for Infinity usually next year Nissan vehicles get same engine. 370Z is obviously first, followed by Maxima and Altima. One thing I cannot find info about anywhere is whether it will be in a current form or will be in the next generation Maxima. Looking into Maxima's history -3 yr and redesign, then 2 yrs. So we can say that 09 maxima will come in at the end of 08.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    And yet the Santa Fe finishes 2nd to the Nissan Murano! I've been in a Santa Fe and they are right, the woodgrain leaves a lot to be desired. They hit the nail on the head by saying it looks like the graining was drawn on with a Sharpie pen. But pointing out that small negative point belies the overall view of the vehicle and obviously doesn't stop it from being an all around good mid-size SUV.

    Funny how folks read an entire article and will pull one negative thing out and automatically...it's a bad vehicle! LOL

    Oh yeah, Alexstore...I've been paying attention to the Maximas I've been seeing here in the DC Metro area since our discussions started. One thing I've noticed...a vast majority of them are being driven by women now. Seems the guys are abandoning them and jumping into the new Altimas with a bit more power. Why not, almost the same room, more engine and fully loaded comes in around what a Maxima would run anyway. Yeah...I'd go for the Altima too.
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