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Here is the link:
http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/guides_and_advice/article.aspx?cp-documentid=51- 15239&dub-gallery-photo-number=&dub-gallery-page-number=2
I was suprised by the Azaera and Taurus because, although I was not expecting much, they were a suprise because of how good they were. I drove the Taurus AWD after the Avalon, and was most suprised that the Avalon was not the slam dunk I thought it was going to be. I was stunned at how quiet the Taurus was,and how the engine noise is virtually absent, and is well hushed at speed. I was also suprised the assembly quality and fit and finish was good in the Taurus and Azera, and the other products from Toyota no longer outclass others as they have in the past. The Azera looked and felt like a toyota product, and Ford's interior assembly look similar to VW (on the austere side).
I was also pleasantly suprised at the visibility and seating positions in the Taurus. I will admit the Taurus looks are more stark with the grill, but also a little more sedate - or boring - than the others since it is so boxy. I guess that is the ford edge style.
The Buick Lucerne stood out as a V8, but the visibility in the car is not great. The car interior is small compared to the exterior dimenesions, especially when compared to Taurus and Avalon. I am not sure how that happens.
I have not yet made up my mind, but everyone has an opinion. I have not had a ford or American car since the 1970's (car at 16 was a pinto), but this new Taurus refinement got my attention.
May I suggest that you also test drive the 2007 Kia Amanti? I know no one has really talked about it in this thread for a while, but I have owned one for a month and am extremely impressed and pleased with the car. I think you will find the quality of the interior very Toyota/Lexus-like, and it is quite spacious, especially the back seat area and trunk. Kia has taken care to make the inside of the car very quiet and squeak-free. Fit and finish is of very fine quality. I like its exterior looks, they grow on you, but some may find the design "unique"! The handling and engine power are very good, much better than the first generation of the Amanti. It uses the same 3.8 engine as the Azera. I had tried out the Azera, but found the ride on the Amanti more to my liking. I felt that the Azera rode a bit "twitchy" - but this is purely a subjective opinion. I find the Amanti a pleasure to drive, and my wife loves the car. You are wise to try out as many of these cars as you can before making a decision.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectEngine.jsp?year=2007&make=Hyundai- - &model=Azera
And, the Taurus is less expensive than the Azera.
Another plus is the availability of AWD, which has also been completely re-engineered from the old 500, although I never read anyone complaining about the 500's AWD system which was Haldex. The new AWD is lifted from the Edge.
The Taurus gets the highest score on all of the NHTSA crash ratings. The Azera does not.
I really don't know what more Ford can do, spec-wise. If the reliability of the car is halfway decent, and it still doesn't sell, maybe Ford is in bigger trouble than I thought.
The Taurus will not "save" Ford. Midsize sedans are where the volume is and although Ford is doing well with the Fusion/Milan it isn't up to the competition and until it is Ford will continue to lag behind in sedan sales.
BTW, the Taurus I saw on a lot a few weeks ago was 34K. Granted it was fully loaded, but, that # is easily Avalon/Lucerne territory. Take away the AWD and Nav and you are right at Azera pricing.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Right now, the biggest advantage that the Taurus offers is AWD, a larger trunk and a very cavernous cabin.
However, even if you use Edmunds as a guide, the starting MSRP price for the Taurus starts out higher than the Azera...that's without options.
Nice try though.
In England, I owned a couple of Jaguars (XK120 and 3.4 MkII), each with the magnificent XK engine. That was another engine with great low end torque even though it was a straight 6 and only about 200hp.
I'm not one to go screaming around, red lining the tacho - I leave that to the youngsters. I like 'long legged' cars like the SS that can cruise at 70 mph at less than 2000 rpm. As a bonus, the SS brings to the table a much more controlled ride than its lesser brethren - probably as a result of a thicker anti-roll bar and maybe several other factors. I rented a 3.9 LT once and it wallowed a lot - the SS does not do that.
So true. Most of these guys can't remember what they had for dinner last night. What lights their fire is conning the buyer to return the factory questionaire for them to fill out in order to get their "spiff".
Bad news for a foreign factory contemplating an upgraded sedan over Azera.
As for costs, it is hard to say. I have things on my Azera as standard that were options on Lexus. Owner satisfaction on the 500 was average, compared to much above average on the Azera.
Personally I don't care for the grill on the Taurus (reminds me of my razor). Also, the bright work around the fog lights looks like an attempt to cover a hole. Reminds of what they did in the 60's and 70's to "refresh cars by tacking parts on. But that's me.
Compare everything and decide what is right for you.
And will cruise at 70 MPH at less than 2000 RPM, running on 4 of the 8 cylinders.
"Grunt" takes displacement. That's what gets things movin'
Is this a superior 3.5 engine producing 272-300 HP or heated and cooled seats or a reliable vehicle , which has no need of long warranty to prove its reliability?
The Hyundai warranty trumps the Ford, but who knows about long term reliability.
It's nice to have a choice, isn't it?
The warranty difference should not be construed to make any implications about reliability (or quality). The Hyundai warranty after all is only on powertrain components and within the 7 year/100k term should largely be inconsequential for any car in this group. Bottom line, I think, is that Hyundai HAS to offer that warranty to sell their cars and Ford doesn't simply because it can't afford to. Wouldn't surprise me however to see Ford 'bite the bullet' however now that Chrysler has upped the ante along with GM already on the bandwagon.
OTH the Azera has been showing a very good record over the short term despite an all new engine/tranny. A truly 'clean sheet' new design and an impressive effort. Remember though that the Sonata started out life with a whole bunch of 'initial quality' awards and favorable reliability stats, but in time has been showing its 'roots'. Think that it is still a little earlier to declare the Azera a 'triumph' from a reliability persepctive.
The Ford 3.5 doesn't seem to be the truly 'new' engine it was purported to be (surprise, surprise), so therefore, be less likely to experience too many teething problems and most of the other components have been 'tested' already in the 500.
Only a guess, of course, and although I would likely favor the Azera personally because of a smoother and quieter powertrain, I would bet a marginal long term reliability edge to the Ford - if you don't include those AWD models.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
agreed, and an interesting statement given that the 3.5 was originally supposed to be in the Five Hundred - 3 years ago! However, had that happened I would bet that the Five Hundred would have sold much better (much like the Chrysler 300) and we wouldn't be talking about the 'Taurus' today. I guess we'll see if the marketing mavens are right about the name change and whether the extra HP needed to make it competitive in this class works.
Having recently driven an Edge, the 3.5 still seems a notch or two below what most of the competition is offering.
I'm pretty sure if the Taurus didn't have AWD, it MIGHT be less than the Azera, but...that could be the factor that takes it higher. I did say that AWD was one advantage that Taurus has over the Azera, along with bigger trunk space and a cavernous cabin. Downsides...bland styling (they tried hard though) and an almost clinical interior (not inviting at all). The new Taurus IS leaps and bounds better than any other Taurus that has been on the streets in the past. It actually looks like a car a family should be in.
The SS has a more controlled ride because it's a "sport" version. The LT is just a cruiser version so it's going to be softer. That being the case, you should have driven a Maxima or an Avalon Touring model...both of those have stiffer suspensions than most of the other entries.
Don't know about anything being lesser brethren to the Impala though...that's funny!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Something tells me that it won't. The Taurus name is "tainted" now with the stigma of "fleet" car. And not to mention that many dealers are having a fire sale on '06 Taurus program cars. Why wouldn't they just have marketed "the restyled 500 now with 260HP 3.5 V6" Nah, that would have made too much sense.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Totally agree. And for me, Powertrain warranty is pretty much meaningless. The REAL factor is the Bumper-To-Bumper warranty. Now THAT!, is standing behind your product...
But I have to admit, even the bumper to bumper warranty was probably 4th or 5th reason on my list when I bought, lower than Styling, Options, Price, Performance, etc.
Still loving my Charger SXT. NO ISSUES whatsoever in two years now...
To me - long warranties, if anything, are a 'red flag' of sorts - probably because I haven't owned a car in the last 15 years that ever required any kind of warranty service within 100k, total mileage of those 2 Chevys, 1 Ford, 4 Nissans, and 1 Toyota over a million miles.Therefore really don't care (Knock on wood) about a lousy 100k warranty - that kind of thing should be expected these days given any semblance of proper upkeep - don't you think?
Nobody ever accused the Koreans of being dummies!
The Koreans know that they have had reliability issues in the past and that the reason they're offering these long warrantee to buy back business.
I agree with the guy who's never had to do warrantee work on all of his cars foreign and domestic. I never have either and I've owned all GM and Honda.
I'd like to see the Hyundai cheer leaders to report back at 100,000 or 150,000 miles to see what they think of them at that point.
GM is offering 100K and Chrysler is offering unlimited mileage on certain models. Why? Because, no matter whether the warranty is worth anything or not its a good marketing ploy to help sell cars.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Actually...a longer warranty would seemingly make someone want to hold on to a car for a longer period of time, however...someone like me...I ran through 100k miles in 4 years, so...
I had a 96 Camry (4 cyl/ auto)and when the tranny went, AAMCO wanted $2300 to repair it...eventually, I found a shop to do it for $1800,but just imagine if it was one of the newer trannies!!!
I would certainly agree on GM's transmissions however, as Rolls-Royce formerly used Turbo-Hydramatics.
I also own an Impala SS and consider it the best car bar none among the vehicles being compared on this thread. I have had exactly no - zero - problems with it during my just over one year of ownership save for the power steering assembly recall that was addressed under warranty and I must say I never did have any problems with mine.
The car is the very best combination of power, styling, very competent handling, quality, quietness, value, excellent stereo, reasonable mileage, beautiful and serene interior along with a magnificent V-8 engine burble available on the market today. I find the leather seats to be of very high quality and I regard the Bose audio system with XM radio to be one of the best stock systems available in a car presently on the market. I also very much appreciate the fact that you can adjust the units on the speedometer along with external temperature, tire pressure, etc. to either Imperial or metric at the touch of a button; now who else offers that feature in their cars? The transmission is oh so smooth and shifts seamlessly. Who needs five, six or seven gears when four do such a superb job?! And the power of that small block V-8 is absolutely exhilarating. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it and that is what a car should do!
May I ask which vehicles you have driven on this thread? The Impala SS is a nice vehicle but in my opinion, GM's own Lucerne V8 trumps it in terms of Luxury and ride. Not to mention the Avalon or Azera that provide almost similar power and better FE out of a V-6, without the need for DOD or any other electronic gadgets. Lets hope these new DOD systems GM and Chrysler have don't prove to be problematic like the early ones Caddy had in the late 70s early 80s.
I guess if all you are looking at is 0 to 60 the SS wins and is a nice "sleeper" car. However, IMO, there are too many downsides to consider it a class leading vehicle.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
while it is certainly true that the 'American' trannies have been relatively trouble free (and cheaper to fix) I submit that this is more a function of how relatively simple and outdated they are. This is rapidly becoming a thing of the past now that even Ford/GM/Chrysler are putting these newer more complicated higher tech 'electronic' trannies in their products as well. The days of the $1500 tranny repair is about over!
For my part, I also put 25-30k on my car/year and regard 100-150k as the point at which I likely want to be looking for something new - if only because I can afford NOT to have to be inconvenienced by any sort of mechanical problems. Warranty plays little role in any car buying decision I make - I look under the hoods first, FE second, resale value (as it relates to COO) third, and mfgr. history fourth - which, I guess, is how I end up in an Avalon.
Sorry Azera lovers, but your car's only advantage is price and not Value that you get with Avalon.
an unfortunate perception that the Avalon has going back to the days (2004 and earlier) when they really were luxed out (and certainly very tame) Camrys. As an owner/former owner of 4 VQ engined Nissans, it was the G35, the Maxima, and the TL that topped my shopping list a coupla years back - if anybody would have told me that I would end up in an Avalon - now that would've really gave me a good laugh. Anyway, the G35 was easily the best driving car (for obvious reasons) but simply too small, the Acura (believe it or not) too rough riding and too much torque steer, the Maxima, substantially less expensive but didn't like the interior (SL) and, of course, the torque steer. Didn't even know about the new Toyota V6 at the time and what Toyota had done to the Avalon - drove one (the tightened up Touring model) and the rest is history. I really do believe though that the 05+ Avalon might just be the ultimate traffic light sleeper and likely leaves some streaks in the drawers of those traditional 'geezer' Avalon owners, but I too would have told you not too long ago that is 'not my age' as well
And yes, you do use the Imperial system of mileage in the US. Where the ablity to adjust the units to metric or Imperial comes in very handy is if you drive the car in both the US and Canada, which I and many others do, so that you can switch effortlessly between the two and this is a very great convenience. It represents yet another indication of GM's attendtion to detail.