Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

allmet33 · August 2007

Pat, I don't have a problem with starting a topic out in a manner that would suggest that it belongs in a given category, but some conversations actually start out as being completely relevant to this forum, but it also evolves a little bit into something else. However, it's not THAT far off track.

If I'm not mistaken, the Azera IS a vehicle that is included in this strand and we were talking about the shifting of the transmission in the Azera. Once again, it's a situation where nobody else is contributing in anyway with anything to maybe involve the other vehicles that are included above. Alexstore quipped in briefly about his Maxima, but that was really it. I know there are some Avalon owners on here as well as a couple of 300/Charger owners as well. Don't know about the rest of them, but all could have contributed with their experiences of the transmission shifting tendencies in their cars.

Which...would make this a relevant conversation because then owners (or potential owners) of other makes and models on this strand could see what things other owners are saying about the cars in comparison to the others.

Just so you know, I did post the info in the Azera forum as well.

thegraduate · August 2007

I'd still love any and all driving impressions from ANY member in the forums, there is very little information floating around on these.

It might also help kickstart this forum back into comparison mode.

vic10 · August 2007

Oh my, the Washington Post. Had I known you were so well read.... May I assume you also read the article (which appeared in several other news journals)that said multi tasking is a sham as practitioners typically perform several tasks in a mediocre fashion and not a single one extremely well?

Be that as it may, the next time I attend a concert and see someone in the audience working an EXCEL spreadsheet on a laptop during the performance, I'll consider your argument.

The point I made originally, which obviously was missed, was NOT that aftermarket audio is equal to factory equipment, but that it's not worth the extra expense IN MY OPINION, and I'll accept that my opinion may not be everyones'. After all, there are numerous cars driving around with fart can mufflers whose owners think that they sounds just swell. But relative to audio, the perceived benefit of an aftermarket system is inversely proportional to the speed you are driving. They may be worth the expense at 30 mph, but at 60 mph, they will sound better but not to the same degree. I think the money would be better spent on something else. A course on e-mail etiquette perhaps.

By the way, at some point in time, after you outgrow your need for Clearasil and braces, you may learn that it's possible to carry on a discussion and express disagreement without resorting to juvenile snide comments.

allmet33 · August 2007

Actually, I'm not well read at all...I prefer the comic section. Pictures are much better to look at. I came across the aforementioned article by accident. :P

Yes...muti-tasking such as applying make up, eating, reading mags/books/newspapers, text messaging, shaving, changing clothes...I think if you read that article again, you'll see that. If listening to music truly gets in the way of someone's ability to drive...they don't need to be on the road to begin with. Obviously, the government doesn't think so or there would be regulation prohibiting the use of audio devices in cars while driving. You know...sorta how they deal with in-dash video monitors (when installed correctly and legally, will not allow a user to watch a video while the car is in any gear other than park).

I never said that you claimed equality between aftermarket and factory. I don't have a problem with you thinking it's not worth the money spent (you're entitled to your opinion), but in most cases now...the upgraded sound system comes on the upper trim models of most vehicles. Actually, with today's aftermarket sound systems, your point is quite invalid. Most basic sound systems are good for about 30-40 mph with the windows down, however...hitting the open road at speeeds of 55+ mph, your musical enjoyment will be lacking. Now with most upgraded sound systems such as JBL, Bose, Infinity, Boston Acoustics, etc...they are very capable of entertaining you very nicely at highway speeds with the windows down. The part that actually becomes lacking in most every case...is low end frequency performance.

Bass notes require more power to reproduce them at sound levels that are needed to overcome such things as engine noise, road noise and such. Thus...an aftermarket system created that uses about 200 watts or more, will definitely accomodate that for those that desire it. Just a lil FYI, buddy.

You and I both agree with the "fart can" thing. I can't stand those things as they interfere with my musical enjoyment!

Clearasil and braces, huh? LMAO More like Rogaine and Aspercreme. Juvenile, snide comments like, "Oh my, the Washington Post. Had I know you were so well read..." There was nothing juvenile or snide about pointing out your inability to enjoy music while driving a vehicle. I simply equated that to not being able to walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. For that to be juvenile, you must be in your 70's or 80's because that's the only way I can be a juvenile to you. As for snide, there was nothing snide about it...it was blatant and in your face. No hidden meaning at all. I said what I said and it obviously holds merit as your feathers got a bit ruffled over it.

Driving a car doesn't require you to listen to a conversation, but rather listen OUT for various things that would alert you to take some sort of action (or none at all). Unless your music is just so atrociously loud, it will not get in the way of your driving. Well, for most of us normal able bodied AND minded folks that is.

There's no shame in not being able to handle some tunes while driving, that is YOUR problem...not mine. I have always, still do and always will continue to enjoy driving my car and enjoying my music as I do so.

chilliwack · August 2007

Get over yourselves guys. And Allmet, perhaps all that aftermarket tinkering had something to do with your blown 40 amp fuse?? I personally think the stock sound system is good. Not to say that it cannot be improved upon. Lose the bitter tones and get back to good posts. :shades:

BTW...some funny stuff in there...

alexstore · August 2007

In Maxima I have smart transmission and if I want to drive aggressively (resulting in worse FE), it will shift momentarily. If I want to cruise, it will hold gears so I can achieve up to 35 mpg.

allmet33 · August 2007

Actually, no...the aftermarket system has nothing to do with the blown fuse at all. In the world of electronics...things like that are expected to happen. Just glad I was able to figure it out and take care of it on my own.

Indeed, the stock system is a good one. I was rather impressed with it, especially the fact that it was in a Hyundai!!!

allmet33 · August 2007

The Azera has a "smart" transmission as well...called adaptive. However, since it's not a sports sedan, it has to "learn" how to hold gears by the owner driving aggressively. Then under normal circumstances...the transmission should hold gears.

tjc78 · August 2007

"it will hold gears so I can achieve up to 35 mpg."

35 MPG in a Max? Check your calculation. Sorry, Alex, just can't believe that one!

tjc78 · August 2007

"In the world of electronics...things like that are expected to happen"

Its funny you say that, just the other day my CD changer in my Av acted up (wouldn't eject the last disc or let me insert another one) Not wanting a dealer trip (still 1000 miles from next service) I pulled the fuse for the radio for a few minutes after I replaced it all was fine. It seems like the "reboot" rule doesn't just work on computers.

thegraduate · August 2007

If I can get 40.92 MPG in my Accord when I take care and conditions permit (70 MPH, no A/C, I'd believe 35 MPG in a Maxima.

And yes, I've done 40MPG on more than one occasion (2.4L Accord Automatic).

allmet33 · August 2007

The only gear that matters in achieving high gas mileage is the last one when you're cruising on the highway.

35 mpg in a Maxima...you must've been cruising at 55 mph, down hill with a tail wind, no A/C, windows rolled up (for aerodynamics) and no other passengers or cargo. :P

allmet33 · August 2007

You're comparing the possible fuel economy of a 4 cylinder Accord to a 6 cylinder Maxima.

35 mpg cruising at 70 mph is quite hard to believe my friend. In my 96 Camry (4 cyl), I would average about 30 mpg while cruising at my usual 70 mph. You too must've been on a highway going downhill with a tail wind to get 40 mpg in your Accord.

allmet33 · August 2007

Indeed! Glad to hear you were able to take care of the issue yourself.

alexstore · August 2007

60 mph, cruise control on, early morning commute in opposite direction of most other commuters( no traffic), window slightly open and most important light on gas pedal if i need to pass a slower moving vehicle. btw in that direction I am on a slight incline.
I do maintenance as recommended by Nissan @ my local shop( not dealer). I check Tire pressure at least once a month and keep it 1 PSI overinflated when cold.

allmet33 · August 2007

You must live on some pretty flat terrain and avoid a lot of downshifts when the cruise control is on.

I was clowning about the downhill/tail wind comment. What are you doing, waiting until you're at your cruising speed and then resetting the fuel economy calculator so that it picks up just the highway mileage?

thegraduate · August 2007

35 mpg cruising at 70 mph is quite hard to believe my friend. In my 96 Camry (4 cyl), I would average about 30 mpg while cruising at my usual 70 mph. You too must've been on a highway going downhill with a tail wind to get 40 mpg in your Accord.

Nope, in my 1996 Accord I can rarely crack 33 MPG at 70 MPH, but my 2006 has a much taller highway gear than the old 4-speed Accords. At 70 MPH, it is about 500 RPM less, which makes a HUGE difference in economy (heck, the EPA notices a 5 MPG difference from VTEC Accords in 1996 to 2006. Check out the Accord MPG forum for others getting this type of MPG. No tailwind, just a routine trip from Birmingham, AL to Gulf Shores, AL. Hilly, but not real noticeable change in elevation.

allmet33 · August 2007

The other key is the fact you don't deal with much of an elevation change. Here in the DC area, elevations vary depending on where you travel.

Like going down to Florida, with the cruise control set at 80, A/C, 5 passengers and a completely loaded trunk...my highway fuel economy was about 28 mpg in my '06 Azera. However, going north where there is more mountainous terrain, the mileage is a bit lower.

thegraduate · August 2007

Right. While the elevation may change 200-300 ft per hill, there is no major climb or descent involved. In fact, most hills are met without a downshift, or even the torque converter unlocking. And that's with a 4-cyl.

Sorry if I got a little off topic.

allmet33 · August 2007

Oooops...we did get a bit off, didn't we?

*And now back to our regularly scheduled program*

thegraduate · August 2007

Yeah, well, at least we were still tied back to a Maxima! :shades:

allmet33 · August 2007

What about the Maxima?

thegraduate · August 2007

The MPG discussion started with some posters' doubts of someone achieving 35 MPG in their Maxima.

alexstore · August 2007

In my previous post I indicated what I did to achieve 35 mpg. I am wondering now about Avalon owners who drive conservatively. You probably achieve over 35 mpg.
I am sorry Allmet that you are jealous that you cannot achieve good FE in your Azera and no I do not reset FE meter upon achieving cruising speed. I reset it at a gas station some distance away from highway and I use manual calculations to determine actual FE. Just go to Fueleconomy.gov and read what you need to do improve gas mileage of your car such as driving less than 70 mph.

alexstore · August 2007

I would like to welcome 2008 Honda Accord owners to this forum as sedan without moon roof is 120 cu ft and is rated as a large Sedan

allmet33 · August 2007

Oh...that, yeah, I still do doubt it too!

allmet33 · August 2007

Jealous??? I think not. Obviously...you didn't pay attention to my post about my trip to Florida from MD. Cruising at 80 mph, A/C 5 passengers, fully loaded trunk...I was able to pull off 27-28 mpg.

There is no possible way a Maxima will achieve 35 mpg with moderately mixed driving. If it was possible, then Nissan would be stating as such. As it stands now, the Altima pulls off MPG in the low 30's...that's the 4 cylinder model, not the 6.

I know all the tricks of improving gas mileage, but I'm cool with what I get now.

alexstore · August 2007

if I was driving 4 cyl Altima, my mpg will average in upper 30s, occasionally reaching 40.
Now since you were driving 80 mph, how many times did you get pulled over?
I was able to achieve on average 30 mpg in Toyota 2006 rav4 4x4 with a passenger.

scbob · August 2007

For the best, most objective reports on true gas mileage, look at Consumer Reports new car reviews.
Also, most V6's will get within 1-2 MPG of a 4 cylinder in today's autos because of all the technology improvements. This isn't your father's Oldsmobile.
I have gotten as good as 32 MPG on the interstate at 70 MPH with A/C on and two passengers in my '07 Azera. Got 28 MPG on most recent trip.
If MPG is that important, get a Prius.

derrelhgreen · August 2007

"120 cu ft?" :sick:

No way! Where did you come up with that figure?

The Accord is no where near that big.

alexstore · August 2007

look at edmunds home page on inside line on 2008 accord sedan

brucelinc · August 2007

The EPA counts trunk space in with passenger space for its classifications. "Full-size" begins at 120 cu ft. The new Accord makes the grade. For comparision, a Taurus is 129.2 cu ft.

jaymagic · August 2007

LOL, I am willing to accept his figure, of course I once got 27 mpg out of my 2001 Explorer XLT going about 75mph over about 150 miles. Of course, there was a very strong 30+ mph wind due East wind pushing me. If I could have raised a sail, I think I could have made 50mpg. I considered just opening the front doors to see what would happen.

Now coming back the other direction about an hour later, I was thrilled with 12mpg at 65 mph.

alexstore · August 2007

As you can see allmet other Azera owners are beating MPG # so it means you should try it too.

pat · August 2007

Allmet has already made it clear he doesn't care. That is his prerogative. Not sure why you won't just drop this, but I will now directly ask you to do so.

alexstore · August 2007

Pat

please add on 9/22/7 Honda Accord to this forum

dborth · August 2007

I disagree. Accord, Camry & Sonata are obviously "mainstream" mid-size. Avalon & Azera are part of the "mainstream" full size. Last time I checked, Honda didn't have a sedan larger than Accord.

bhmr59 · August 2007

Since the Sonata has 1.9 more cu ft than the new Accord, do you think the Sonata should be included in the discussion?

pat · August 2007

The Accord is being discussed in Midsize Sedans and is typically compared with the other cars there. There is no need to include it here.

pat · August 2007

I assume you are being facetious, but no, it does not belong here.

Let's not waste bandwidth by getting into a "what belongs here and what doesn't" argument. There are discussions for every vehicle anyone can imagine and if anybody needs help finding an appropriate one, I'll be glad to do the honors.

Meanwhile, let's talk about the cars at the top of page in this discussion.

mike91326 · August 2007

If you were able to get 35 mpg in the current Maxima, I can't wait to see what the 09 diesel Maxima will get.

allmet33 · August 2007

Exactly my point, and you want me to believe you can pull 35 on a Maxima with a V-6???

Going down to Florida, cruising at 80 is pretty much moving with the flow of traffic in most cases as there are some stretches where the speed limit is 70. However, to answer your question directly...I didn't pulled over once going down or coming back.

30 mpg in a RAV 4 is far from unthinkable. Afterall, you're talking about a Toyota.

allmet33 · August 2007

Again, you are not paying attention to my posts...I AM beating the mileage #'s. If I'm getting close to 30 mpg while cruising at 80 is giving me the FE that Hyundai states the car is capable of when they test it at 55 or 60 mph. What part are you not paying attention to?

thegraduate · August 2007

For those unaware...

The EPA dumbs down their test results to take into account real-world driving experiences (speeding up just to be caught by a red light, extra A/C use, heavier loads in the vehicle, etc..)

So, a HWY estimate of 30 MPG may have been 34 MPG before the EPA backed off on the numbers to appease the lead-footed public who couldn't achieve the numbers.

Personally, I typically match the EPA numbers in my 175k mile 12 year old Accord, and beat them in my 2006 Accord. I pay attention to things like traffic light timing and often coast the better part of a stop if it doesn't impede traffic. I'm turning 20 Friday, but I don't drive like it.

jaymagic · August 2007

I know this info is posting in the real world mileage forum also, but I am consistently seeing about 24 mpg in my everyday driving with easy 29-30 mpg cruising the interstate in my Azera. I would hope that virtually all the cars discussed in this forum these days, should be capable of getting similar mileage in normal driving -- not sitting in traffic for hours, with A/C at full blast -- but normal go the store, meet friends, and go to and from work in rush hour traffic (NOT CALIFORNIA RUSH HOUR).

thegraduate · August 2007

not sitting in traffic for hours, with A/C at full blast

Is it just me, or does it seem to others that it wouldn't matter if the A/C was set on low speed or high, that it would give the same mileage?

The compressor is working nonstop either way.

Sorry if I'm splitting hairs here, but it seems like that would be the case, true?

pat · August 2007

Would you and alexstore give it a rest, already?

popsavalon · August 2007

Yea, Pat, this thread was getting about as interesting as folks arguing about politics or religion!

tjc78 · August 2007

Its just one more aspect to compare the vehicles in the discussion. With today's gas prices MPG should be high on the car buyer's list. Fortunately we are given some nice powerful choices that still are decent on gas. Lets face it, if you are driving anything in this segment FE is not your first concern. If it was you would be looking at a Civic/Yaris manual or a Hybrid.

P.S. Looking back at the posts I guess that I shouldn't have questioned Alex's MPG #'s, stirred up the pot a bit.

tgkoenigsegg · August 2007

Isn't MPG for cars going down these days because people want more power now. 10 Years ago, a large sedan had 200 hp and i don't know MPG but now, they have around 250 hp or even more.

Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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