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Comments
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
On the flip side...the Taurus does offer a viable option for those shopping and don't want to spend Avalon money. Also, it should keep FoMoCo types happy. I mean...it is the best Taurus that Ford has made yet (IMO).
"Also, it should keep FoMoCo types happy"
I have always liked Fords, the only thing that would truly make me happy is a redesigned Crown Vic/GM with 300+ HP driving the rear wheels in a decent looking package to compete with the 300/Charger. Probably won't happen, but would be nice.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
The closest you'll see the Crown Vic come to redesign and more power was the short lived Mercury Marauder!!! If anything, some FoMoCo exec. may start thinking back when the Taurus was offered as an SHO and try to re-do the same thing with the current Taurus. Now...that's not to say that it can't be done, but a lot of thought will need to go into it.
Personally, I can't knock Ford too hard, I did own a 92 Tempo GLS with the 3.0 V-6 and it was a very capable 6 for it's time.
I am hopeful for both of them to knock out the Euros and Japanese with quality luxo cars at a decent price and without the arrogant dealers.
I've been a GM man for 20 years and never thought I'd buy a Ford, but this one has won me over. I agree Ford's marketing campaign has been whacked for the last 5 years, but I think bringing back the Taurus name was a good idea as it offers a lot more instant name recognition. There was a time really not that long ago when the Taurus was the number 1 selling car in the country. Not sure if the current car will get there again, but it's a define step in the right direction.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
It's almost too late now for any of us here to get you to change.
Please don't wish later that we had been successful.
I don't expect you will find yourself wishing that anyone changed your mind.
I do like the way they shaped it and kept it clean with a Euro look to it. Still on the fence about the grille too. However, I was impressed with the goo-goo gobs of room inside (not to mention the trunk space). Didn't bother taking it for a test drive because it just didn't appeal to my senses enough to want to. What I'm trying to say, and this is my own thing here, is that the car lacked static excitement. That means, sitting there on the show room floor, it didn't evoke any type of emotion that made me want to get in it and see what it could do. That is just my take on this, so please folks...don't be offended for explanation as to why the 500/Taurus didn't make it's way into my garage.
I will, for one, be quick to say that Ford is coming along...finally!!!
not so sure about this one - the 'new' DT 3.5 not a whole lot more than a bored/stroked 3.0 with reportedly similar smoothness/refinement problems. The HP is better, of course but tests indicate mid 7 acceleration times in awd form - should be a coupla tenths below that fwd, lagging well behind the class leaders here. Always has been a well designed (and very 'soft') space ship thanks largely to its S80 ancestary. A more competitive entry, sure, but 'incredible' - leave that to the Avalon a few years back or the Azera a year later...
Has Ford ever got around to fixing their lack of control on their trannies? i e: 'Tiptronic' or something similar?
I would think that the only reason to get one of the Ford/Mercury
twins might be if a person simply had to have all-wheel drive.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
twins might be if a person simply had to have all-wheel drive"
No.. there is another reason. Once they catch up on production and they are backing up on the lots there will be the inevitable rebates that will make the car a nice value. I've said it all along the TaurHundred is a great car destroyed not by its capabilities but Ford's haste in getting the original to market (should have had the 3.5 all along). They are doing the same thing with Fusion/Milan those vehicles should have never been introduced with less than 250HP to compete with the CamCordTimas.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
of the vehicle in question.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I know my Azzy now downshifts much quicker than it did new.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
It seems that in the case of my Av that it seems to 'anticipate and learn' those behaviors which myself and likely most of us exhibit most often - slow and docile, so therefore it will 'want' to be in higher gears and doesn't adjust well when and if I tell it to suddenly leave a little rubber on the road which eventually it will do. IMPO, 'adaptive and learning' trannies are a joke because, in fact, it is the drivers that need to adapt and learn. As tjc notes, Toyota/Lexus have had this 'problem' for years now as it seems they take a more aggressive approach.
your comments on your 300C only support my contention - your hemi hardly designed for any semblance of FE and at least according to CR (14 mpg city) its FE is the most overrated of ALL cars. You must have a different idea of what 'city' driving really is if you claim 18-19 - heck I can think of 'city' conditions where even my Avalon might not be able to achieve 18 mpg, and it IS easily 5 or 6 mpg better than any 300C ever thought of being (overall FE) despite almost being able to keep up with you.
All that said, however, the 300C is a good example of what Detroit should do- big ole V8s on a decent German engineered chassis - the 300C is a hoot to drive!
PS - the ole GM 4 speed is a good example of what I'm talking about - much simpler, cheaper to repair, and more responsive (in a traditional sense) than these new 5 and 6 speed electronic 'wonders'. Soon to be a thing of the past though, as the carbuyers somehow think that more is better. Torque steer has long been a 'condition' of V6 Nissans largely because of those 'more responsive trannies ' (and HP/torque, while Toyotas/Lexus as well as Honda/Acura tend to exhibit less simply due to gear selection 'control'. The CVTs now in the Altima/Maxima of course use even more computer control, apparently eliminate the TS all at the expense of that rev up/shift driving experience that many of us appreciate...
"heck I can think of 'city' conditions where even my Avalon might not be able to achieve 18 mpg"
My Avalon gets an overall of 21 MPG. Very low compared to others here, however, my nightly ride home is almost all gridlock and the car sees very little open highway except for 8 miles in the morning. On my last tank with two 100 mile all highway round trips I am at 23.8. It was over 27 until I started back into my routine. So, the 18 all city is probably "real world" accurate. Still happy with these #'s because they beat my '03 Avalon by at least 2MPG with 70 more HP.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Nissan seems to be the only manufacturer that is able to combine high torque with a CVT - and I'll bet a lot of their potential customers will shop elsewhere just because of that CVT.
Horsepower for the 3.5 Nissan is 255 @6000 rpm; Torque is 252 ft/lb at 4000 rpm.
Could it be that Nissan knows how to built a better moosetrap?
Have you driven any of their products with that CVT tranny? :confuse:
The Limited seemed quieter than the SEL. Other than that they were similar. I had an MKZ rental earlier this year and was impressed with the responsiveness of the engine/transmission combination. I believe this is the same package in the Taurus and it was nicely responsive. The SEL only had 26 miles on it while the Limited had nearly 2600 so the later felt quicker. I was greatly disappointed that Ford has chosen to not offer any greater manual control over the transmission. I had heard there was an OD lock out button but I couldn't find one and the sales person was of no help either. He did say all you had to do to manually downshift was to pull the selector back into low and the transmission would downshift one gear. When I did it the transmission went all the way to LOW. The tach certainly works okay:)!
The sales person also said that when you turn off the stability control it basically sends equal torque to all four wheels. Is this true?
Any feedback on the navigation system? The two dealers that I visited didn't have any vehicles so equipped.
We have been driving a series of AWD vehicles to replace our 2000 Park Avenue. Lots of nice vehicles but the Taurus seems to be the best compromise for our requirements. It is comfortable, handles decently, appears to get decent mileage and has AWD. I am not a FORD person but am leaning that way right now.
The Ford/Volvo CVT TMK used chains much more like a 10 (or 15) speed bike, and therefore would logically handle the 250 lb./ft.+ better - don't know why it was discontinued - perhaps reliability concerns, although I have heard of no such problems. A reliable CVT offered in a std FWD Taurus would seemingly allow for an extra mpg or two in the FE wars, much like it is now doing in the Maxima....
doubt this very seriously - if anything turning traction control off might send a bit more aft (not 50%). SC has alot to do with selective brake application, dethrottling, and in some cases even tranny gear selections, but TMK nothing to do with power delivery - if anything ultimate stability would be improved with equal torque to all wheels, turning the system off to improve stability would be contradictory. Sounds like a typical salesperson to me?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
"The SEL only had 26 miles on it while the Limited had nearly 2600..."
Possibly the tires in the SEL were still overinflated? Dealers are notoriously negligent about reducing tire pressure from 50-60 lb set at factory for transport, to spec value. With two cars that I bought new the steering felt way too light, and it was because tire pressures had been left way too high when delivered.
Most had tremendous mechanical problems and were near worthless two years later. All eventually disappered.
They're baaaack.......
Great... why not combine it with a CVT and a have really sterile driving experience.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?styleid=100776116&styl- - eid=100726862&styleid=100776117&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=print
Edmund's said this about the Ford: "Weak and unrefined V6, six-speed automatic isn't especially smooth, can't get stability control, yard-sale-quality stereos."
Edmund's said this about the Toyota "High-quality cabin, soft and quiet ride, upscale amenities."
Crash test results: EVEN
Crash Test Results Avalon Five Hundred
Driver 5 stars 5 stars
Passenger 5 stars 5 stars
Side Impact Front 5 stars 5 stars
Side Impact Rear 5 stars 5 stars
Crash Offset Good Good
Bumper Bash Not Tested Good
Rollover Resistance 4 stars 4 stars
Edmund's also said: "Mediocre acceleration is the main drawback to the Five Hundred. Its standard 3.0-liter Duratec V6 is not as powerful or refined as most competitors' engines. Ford has developed a more potent 3.5-liter V6, but it likely won't make it to the Five Hundred lineup until the 2008 model year. For now, the Five Hundred's low pricing and top-notch crash test scores still make it a reasonable family car pick, but shoppers would be wise to try the competition as well."
Edmund's said about the Avalon: "In road tests and reviews, we've found the Toyota Avalon to be an excellent large sedan. Highway driving is luxurious. The V6 engine pulls well, is smooth and posts impressive fuel economy numbers. Although the Touring trim handles adequately, the Avalon should not be mistaken for a sport sedan. It is a full-size car with qualities that lean toward comfort over athletics. Downsides to the Avalon are few. Main complaints concern the rear seat (it doesn't fold down to expand luggage capacity) and a slightly dull persona that some buyers might find off-putting."
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:shades:
link title
But I will say it before the host does. Move this conversation to another topic
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Mack
The thing I hate most about September are the months to follow. Come November and December you all will be tired of hearing from me with all the down time I have in those two months.
Smart key entry system. Standard.
Acoustic noise reducing windshield. Standard
Rain sensing windshield wipers. Standard.
Tilt and telescoping steering wheel. Standard.
Heated and Cooled perforated leather driver and passenger power seats with driver's cushion extender, power lumbar, and memory settings for two driver's. Standard.
Puddle lamps with turn signal indicator heated outside mirrors with memory and auto dimming. Standard
6 Speed automatic transmission with sequential mode. Standard.
Full size spare tire with alloy wheel. Standard.
High intensity discharge lights. Standard
JBL Synthesis 6cd in dash changer with satellite radio capability, aux audio jack, MP3/WMA playback capability, hands free telephone via Bluetooth, 360 watts, 12 speakers with subwoofer. Standard
3.5L V6 with Dual Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence. Standard.
Power moonroof tilt/slide with shade. Standard.
And more.....
Options
Voice activated DVD navigation system.
Dynamic Laser cruise control.
Vehicle stability control with Traction control and brake assist. (Your folks would really love this one)
We had adjustable pedals on Camry a few years back. It was not important to our customers so we stopped offering them. AWD? It's a front wheel drive car. Plus with VSC and Trac who needs it. Keyless entry pad? What do you do if you forget the code? Locked out? :sick: DVD system? Only in Minivans and SUV's. Not near luxury sedans. Folding seats? Avalon demographics prefer the center pass through in case they want to ski. Oh what a feeling!
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Mackabee