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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    Well Mack all that looked good until you got to your all wheel drive argument. :P
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Well, dissuade my all wheel drive argument then. What did people do before we had 4wheel drive or front wheel drive?
    :shades:
    p.s. even without the all wheel drive the Avalon is a lot more car.
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    Well it is a nice car. The styling does nothing for me but I know it is a quality piece. Whats the deal with the back end though? :shades:
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    Well, I don't know if the Avalon is a "lot more car," but when I looked at a Limited about a month ago, it sure cost a lot more - way high 30s in the Gulf States Region.

    At least around here the resale on older Avalons is not all that great either.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    All for only $6000 more, wow what a deal :shades:
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    What did people do before we had 4wheel drive or front wheel drive?

    Your kidding right?? They wrecked or went in the ditch more.

    Like saying what did people do before they had AC and power steering? They sweated and made wider turns doing it.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,559
    ..."What did people do before we had 4 wheel drive or front wheel drive?..."

    They learned some driving skills instead of relying on car gizmos to bail them out. Every winter I watch as people flip their latest Tech mobile because they rely too much on the car and not enough on their skills.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    SPIN!

    Please do not compare the Avalon to the 500.
    There is a big difference between last years 500 and this year's Ford Taurus, especially the powertrain.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    yeah, not that many people remember the Caddy V8-6-4 in the 90s, a disastrous overapplication of technology that lead to several problems for GM. Although I would imagine tht this technology has improved over the last 10 years or so, it is still claimed even by its promoters to yield only an extra 10% in FE and only in 'laboratory' conditions that are really not representative of real world driving. VARIABLE DISPLACEMENT ENGINES ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A GIMMICK, not a whole different than those Caddy V8s of years ago, and much like GM and Ford's shamless promotion of E85 'green' vehicles that are in fact nothing more than an effort to meet some gpvernmental CAFE regs. The secret to FE has to start with a well engineered (and efficient) engines in the first place - and it can be done without the gimmicks, the 3 year old Avalon gets the same FE as the new Accord which does have a V6-4-3, the cars are close in size and weight, and yet the slightly larger Avalon is actually quicker (AT equipped). Go figure.
    Clean diesels would seem to offer about the only immediate viable alternative, V6s of maybe 220hp but 350-400 lb.ft torque could still yield 35-40 mpg hwy and overall FE easily in the higher 20s while still providing a decent (but different) driving experience.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Your kidding right?? They wrecked or went in the ditch more.

    Well seeing that these days after bad winter storms I see far more 4WD and AWD cars and trucks in the ditch than FWD or RWD I would think thats not the case.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Thats cause now days people don't know how to drive and they think they are invincible.

    My point was that using the "what did people do before" argument is not a very good one.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    The thing I hate most about September are the months to follow. Come November and December you all will be tired of hearing from me with all the down time I have in those two months.

    By the looks of things lately, it doesn't look like we'll have to wait nearly that long ! :P

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The thing I hate most about September are the months to follow. Come November and December you all will be tired of hearing from me with all the down time I have in those two months.

    ha that is when we are rocking busy.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    ha that is when we are rocking busy.

    Yes, you've said this before and thank you for educating us to this fact.

    So, if I (well, not me specifically since I'm not an SUV type of guy) were interested in getting the best deal possible on a Land Rover, when should an SUV guy buy at your store?

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yes, you've said this before and thank you for educating us to this fact.

    I just like rubbing it in Joel's face you can ignore those posts if you so choose.

    So, if I (well, not me specifically since I'm not an SUV type of guy) were interested in getting the best deal possible on a Land Rover, when should an SUV guy buy at your store?

    End of July early August is your best chance to get a good deal and still have some decent selection. If you aren't picky about colors or options then the window on a good deal might stretch into September.

    The only 07s I have left are LR3s now and I don't have many color choices left.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,849
    As usual Cap we agree. The V8/6/4's of the world are not the answer. They shut off at any speed over 70 - 75 and on many interstates the traffic moves quite a bit faster than that. Just try doing under 75 in the left lanes of the NJ turnpike.

    As for the diesels I guess that they could be an alternative, but I like my free revving engine and just wouldn't want a torque monster like that in my FWD sedan. I just imagine feeling too much like a truck. Only time will tell, but if I was a betting man, I would put my money on Hybrids over diesels.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Back end is money made in the F$I office. Extended warranties, service contracts, pro-packs or rust and dust, wheel and tire replacement plans, etc., etc,. Looks like that's where Joel is getting his plasma tv with.
    :)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Thank you.
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Ok, I won't. The 08 Avalon beats the 08 "Taurus" hands down.
    :)
    Mackabee
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    try doing under 75 in the left lanes of the NJ turnpike.

    Is the right lane too passe now? I very VERY rarely find myself in the left lane. 5 over the limit is plenty for me. Better mileage, and an easier drive. I'm a chronically early person, so I dont have to make up for lost time very often (knock on wood, I'll probably oversleep tomorrow for saying that).
  • alexstorealexstore Member Posts: 264
    Well if my choices were limited, out of these 2 I will still pick Avalon. In my opinion Taurus is VW Passat on steroids who was taking them in 500 form and only begun working out as Taurus. Avalon has far more superior engine with better FE.
    Taurus was designed for slightly younger crowd than Avalon.
    If my only choices were Azera, Taurus or 3.5l 300 that would have been a tough pick.
    Taurus in 3.5 form I would wait at least a year before getting a new car. There are possibly will be many issues with 1st year model.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    after bad winter storms I see far more 4WD and AWD cars and trucks in the ditch than FWD or RWD
    sure you do and I would wager that Allstate knows this too. Having the 4WD or AWD makes some drivers stupid and feel impervious to gross driving errors. They will drive too fast because systems like this can allow them to do this with a sense of greater security - so then they drive even faster when in fact all the drive wheels in the world won't help them on that black ice ahead. Maybe it would be better if these systems didn't 'help' in this manner and properly trained drivers could gauge reasonable and safe speeds by simply finding that point at which the car gets a little 'loose', the way it was in the old days. I think there is still a widely held perception that stability control systems improve handling, not the case - also can be responsible for the same sort of driver behaviors. I believe there is no doubt that those of us that grew up in snow country driving those nose heavy overrpowered RWD sedans of the 60s and 70s are generally 'better (more capable)' drivers than our children. There do seem to be some disadvantages to having computers doing some of the driving for us...
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    don't know that the DT 3.5 will necessarily suffer from those usual 1st year 'Detroit' problems simply because despite Ford's protestations IMO it is not a truly new engine neither certainly is the rest of the car. Don't know about this 'younger crowd' thing either,the Taurus is every bit as soft as any 'luxury' trim Avalon and not nearly as tightened up as the Avalon Touring and certainly much slower in any case. The Azera is pretty much the same way - very soft -a better Buick with a bit more spunk, if you will.
    Something of generally better appeal to the 20 and 30 somethings? try the Altima/Maxima SEs.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,849
    Hey.... I'm 29 and on Avalon #2. I guess I am the exception to the rule!

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • ronsmith38ronsmith38 Member Posts: 228
    Dale Jarrett Ford near Charlotte NC is advertising new 2008 Taurus's at $4000 off MSRP. They have over 70 in stock.
  • psorterpsorter Member Posts: 89
    What did people do before we had 4wheel drive or front wheel drive?

    Your kidding right?? They wrecked or went in the ditch more.


    How the heck does AWD prevent you from going into a ditch? AWD helps you move in snow, not stop. D stands for drive not brake, all cars have AWB (all wheel brakes)

    What did people do before AWD? They used snow tires, which is the most important safety feature on any car in snow.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    I didn't think there were rules when all it takes is a test drive and a little research to discover the truth. ;) As I have said before, the 05+ Avalon is such a different kind of ride that I believe Toyota may be selling even more of them (initially sales almost quadrupled) with a different name.
    For those of us that do know better, let the masses wallow in their ignorance! :D
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    and sandbags in the trunk and a tad more 'ability' in those kind of conditions.....
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    this is bad news for Taurus owners and Ford....
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    Negative. I've looked at both avalon and Taurus studiously and in my opinion the new Taurus, which really isn't a Taurus beats it by a long shot. Take it from someone who took a full year of test driving and researching all large sedans.

    I'm glad I waited for the 2008 Ford Taur500.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Dale Jarrett is still selling Fords? Isn't that his ride now is a Camry? I suppose he's going to start selling Toyotas soon huh?

    :P
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Hate to say this but...

    If money is a concern, go with the Taurus, probably the best bang for the buck in the large sedan category.

    If money is not too much of a concern then Avalon all the way. Higher power engine (can't beat the 2GR), better fit and finish inside are worth the premium IMO.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,849
    "I didn't think there were rules when all it takes is a test drive"

    The difference between the '00+ and '05+ is really night and day. The only thing (IMO) not improved on the car is the seats, which were better in the previous generation. I am seeing more and more Av's in my neck of the woods.. maybe the secret is out!

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,849
    "and in my opinion the new Taurus, which really isn't a Taurus beats it by a long shot"

    Tell us why. I seriously considered the 500 and aside from the engine (which was the biggest problem) and additional sound insulation the Taurus is very much a 500. The Avalon is quicker, gets equal or better FE, has a fantastic reliability record and resale. Not to mention it is available with almost all the "toys". "Bold" statement to make considering the competition here. I actually put the Taurus 4th in the group here: Av, Azera, Lucerne (V8 only) then the Taurus. Not saying its not the right car for you, just curious why you say beats it hands down. Having a bigger trunk, and AWD available doesn't make it a winner in my book.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well, all I've done is look at this car (Taurus) with my grandmother, and I must say, the high seating position and excellent room is really a plus (the interior is HUGE). The MPG for the Avalon is 19/28, Taurus is 18/28 so that's a wash. Horsepower and torque also seems a wash (268/248 vs. 263/249 for the Ford (torque peaks a little sooner in the Taurus)).

    Yes, the Avalon has a lot more toys, but it also costs a lot more coin. If you get past the toys that are available and just talk about the CAR, the Taurus is a viable competitior, especially at its bargain price.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I wouldn't call the 20HP difference a "wash".
  • derrelhgreenderrelhgreen Member Posts: 234
    What 20 horsepower? :confuse:

    I see only 5 horsepower difference, and that is a wash! :surprise:

    :)
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,849
    Never said the Taurus wasn't a viable competitor. I like the car, however IMO it is not top of this group. It's already being discounted heavily what is that telling you?

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    That is Fords history murdering Fords future.

    The customers are so accustomed to buying with rebates that they do not feel like buying till they see the rebate signs up!

    fyi...I own couple of retail stores and my sales folks face the same anguish everyday.
  • jaymagicjaymagic Member Posts: 309
    If you want Avalon power and features at a Taurus price, get the Azera, best of both worlds.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Me neither, but the Avalon has 268hp, the Taurus has 263hp. 5 horsepower. I would call THAT a wash, since you can't really feel a difference.

    The Taurus has 1 lb-ft more of torque available at 200RPM lower than the Toyota too; also a wash.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I would. I'm not the one in the market though, that would be my grandmother, and at 72 years old, she wouldn't dream of buying a Hyundai. She has driven Honda since '91, and before that, she had Fords; from a Fairlane to a Torino to a Granada, all the way to a 1984 LTD (the one based on the Fairmont). She always got good service out of her Fords (LOVED her LTD), and her Hondas too.

    She'll likely have it down to another Accord (2008) or a Taurus in the near future, but she wants to drive a Civic too (I know - RANDOM, but she loved her '91 Civic until it was totaled).
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    and IF it is $6K cheaper now it will likely be worth at least that much less when you likely want to drive something else - as with many other things you tend to get what you pay for - now and later!
    And your option comparison is a joke(as specific option comparisons often are), the Avalon (some Maximas are the same) doesn't split (or fold down) the rear seats because they recline (take your choice), keyless entry pad - how about an even more ridiculous way to get even wetter in a good rainstorm, adjustable pedals and DVD players - why so you can be doing something you shouldn't - just before you hit the bridge abutment. Ever driven a car with a good set of HID headlights? Now these would be useful!
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,849
    I just looked at Ford.com just for the heck of it and there is already $1500 worth of rebates (in my area). Unbelievable, its a new '08 model and we aren't even out of Sept yet! I predicted this in post #3170 but didn't expect it to be this soon.

    P.s. The keyless entry pad is great if you don't want to carry your keys. I had it on my Ford's and did like it.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Um, the cars with the keypad also have keyless entry...

    It's better to say that its a unique feature to prevent locking your keys in your car (or to allow you to do so). It has regular keyless entry as well; don't forget that fact as everyone else seems to...
  • cobrazeracobrazera Member Posts: 352
    Adjustable pedals allow a vertically challenged person, i.e., short females, to adjust their seat further away from the steering wheel so they don't get whacked so hard if the airbag deploys. IMO, an very useful option if you fall in that category.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    the thought of leaving my set of keys in the car never occurred to me and never did on a 92 Maxima( and an Aerostar) I owned. Maybe force of habit and a fear of getting them stolen? So as a result keypads were never used and tended to delay car entry at those very infrequent times I wanted in but didn't have my fob. Old tech however dating back into the 80s that I have always thought was only still appearing on Ford products because this is something they can do and they had left over inventory. kinda like the fad with digital dashes (the Aerostar and Probe I also owned faded over time and became invisible in daylight. One other thing I've noticed is that Ford seems reticient to give upon those ugly green leds especially on secondary controls, the backlighted white (and orange) dash gauges in Toyota/lexus ( and Nissan/Infiniti) products seem far superior to me egronomically - didn't like the red/white and blue in the TL though, while clear and legigble reminded me of a pinball machine and out of character for a car of that stature.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Avalon has better fuel economy than the new Taurus?? Most likely, but after driving a 2008 Taurus over 1,400 miles with a 75% highway and 25% city combination, I would say 28.8MPG average is not too shabby for the 3.5L DOHC V6. Before you slam the new Taurus, I would suggest some serious seat time in the car. This new engine has got some serious horsepower and torque, and the new GM/Ford-designed 6-speed automatic is seamless.
  • newcarformenewcarforme Member Posts: 35
    Completely agree. The new Taurus is NOTHING like the 500. It's sooooooo much improved.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The new Taurus is NOTHING like the 500.

    Except for the exterior. And the interior... :P

    Improved, yes, but it is still much the same car as the 500 (that's not a terrible thing).
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