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Comments
Second, where did I say that the Azera is a luxury car? I said it is a near luxury car which is different. A luxury car like you said is a BMW, MB, Lexus and etc (I don't consider Chrysler and Lincoln as luxury cars so I guess I have higher standard than you), OTOH a near luxury car is cars in this segment like Lucerne, Avalon, Azera, Maxima and 300. The Dodge Charger, which is a budget RWD sports sedan, is not part of that group. Like I said, the only similarity between Charger and Azera is size.
The Azera and Charger are pretty dead even in trade in value as has been proven previously.
The Azera is not a full out luxury car, it is an entry level luxury car...that is what was stated. Compared to what else is out there in it's price range it's more luxury than anything...except for maybe the Lucerne. The Charger may have a Mercedes platform and suspension underpinnings, but it sure doesn't ride or handle like a Benz...AT ALL.
One usually compares cars before they buy them not after.
Your buddy Azera owners been bragging that they have a luxury car
One could also brag a Honda Accord is a luxury car, but doesn't make it so.
When did you become an administrator here xtec? Last I checked we could particpate in any discussion we wanted to as long as it didn't get personal, and it was on the subject of the thread.
4 doors or not,the Charger is a lot better looking then what Hyundai came up with.
That's your opinion, but you state it as fact. It's not. Styling is subjective.
what we don't need here is another micro-manager.
Yes.
If we are allowed to go on any board we want would create kaos like this board is.
Our hosts do an excellent job of preventing chaos, this board is proof of that (that's why the host asked that you quit bringing things like this up).
We compared these two cars to death.I think its not polite to hog this board
Well, you don't have a problem posting, so I'll stop when you do. How's that? :P
And yes in my OPINION you can't comment on a car if you don't own it.How can you tell how it rides
Have you never driven, ridden in, or looked at ANY cars other than the ones you have a title for? You'd be a minority if your answer is yes.
You people crack me up,everyday something new,yet you lose everytime.
"You lose?" What's to lose?
I'm not sure why some of you who I know know better are encouraging and contributing to this mess, but personally I would very much appreciate it if you would stop.
Anyone who wants to continue to participate in this discussion needs to drop all personal comments and stick to the cars. The personal challenges going on in here need to stop.
Thanks.
Should I replace it with G8 then? Or something else?
It should be the G8.
I do like the looks of the 300, but in my opinion, the only good looking vehicle that Dodge markets is the Viper.
One thing i like about charger is that it is RWD. Useless in the winter but fun in the summer. Although Chrysler group started 3.5 L revolution, 3.5 L that is in MB is much better and of a new type. This engine is not performance oriented in MB.
Hyundai's 3.8 was either licensed, co-developed or stolen from Mitsubishi as it shares similar characteristics. Compared to Avalon or Maxima it is slightly inferior. It is modern but if Toyota had 3.8 in Avalon, it would have been about 290 HP and about 270 torque.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
In your example, with 3.8L both Toyota and Nissan will have about 330+ in their high output versions. But now compare FE of GS vs Avalon and M35 vs Maxima.
m35 rwd - 18/25 Maxima- 21/28
Avalon is hard to compare as it is longer then either GS or ES though I say LS is a luxury Avalon, but price wise I believe GS is closer choice.
now if we talk about engines on this forum, I believe GM's 3.6, Nissan's VQ and Toyota's 2gre are the best here and the most flexible.
What are you talking about? Licensed, co-developed, stolen? Keep dreaming. The 3.8 Lambda is developed/built in house.
FYI, and as suspected, the 3.8 Lambda is capable of higher hp and increased fuel economy. And, as the second generation Lambda (both 3.3 and 3.8) debuts, it will make use of both categories. For the record, the upcoming RWD BK from Hyundai with the 3.8 house under the hood WILL have more than 300hp. The BH luxury RWD sedan will also use the 3.8 as its base engine (4.6L V8), and we'll hear more info soon.
PS, some more engine knowledge for you, the "world engine" was developed by Hyundai, and my understanding Hyundai is getting loyalty payments.
That setting him straight joe97. :surprise:
I wonder if we will be able to simply upgrade our older 3.8 Lambdas
to bring them up to being equal to the newer applications? :confuse:
I can dream can't I?
In a family sedan, though, IMO, FWD is the way to go. The Charger fun in summer? With 4200 pounds in the hemi version, that's no sports sedan - it's a very big and heavy 4 passenger car. The center rear position being nearly useless for an adult because of the driveshaft tunnel.
BTW if 3.8 was an in house, why is it that it has similar characteristics as in mitsubishi?
Hope You Understand Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive
Even though we have so many members on this forum driving Azera, I see more on the road Ford Tauruses, 07+ Maximas, Avalons and Chargers.
Hope You Understand Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive
The difference between what you posted and what I posted: you are assuming just because the Mitsu 3.8 has the same displacement as one of Hyundai's two Lambda engines. By the way, the Mitsu 3.8 (6G75 is a replacement of the 6G74, which is a 3.5L).
I am not telling you something as opinions, I am telling you as fact the 3.3 and 3.8 Lambda engine family is built in-house, period. There is no such thing as "if". Oh yeah, would you like to explain to me why there isn't a Mitsu 3.3 if you are so much as convinced this is somehow related to Hyundai engines. Stop arguing with the truth.
Let's drag another fact in, the Sonata's design froze long before the Accord facelift (w/ the taillight in question) came out. If it makes you feel good they "appear" alike, then suit yourself.
By the way, "azera in its prior appearance as sonata" - that makes no sense whatsoever...
I agree that size wise the Avalon is most 'competitive' to an LS, but drivetrain wise it really is closer to a slightly larger ES at similar price points. The ES's 272hp is simply the Avalon's 268hp rated engine using premium gas, a marketing decision on Toyota's part because Avalon buyers seem to be more likely to want to save the extra money on gas. Given that the similarily sized LS can fetch up to maybe $75k these days (or $35k+ more than the Av), and is a dynamically superior vehicle to the Avalon (with more 'brand prestige'), it is hard to believe that it would be cross-shopped.
Agree with the torque spec comment, luxury cruisers like those in this class are supposed to offer supreme driveability - which generally means a plentiful helping of torque which must also be available in a wide (relatively low) rpm range. This is one of the benefits (the other being FE) of these new high tech continuously variable valve timing engines (intake and exhaust) as in Toyota's 2GR - an engine undoubtedly a cut above the other engines in the cars of this group - at least from an efficiency point of view. Nissan's latest rendition of the VQ (3.7 liter) in the new G is similarily equipped. It is important to note that there is a whole lot more to the way CVVTi systems work than the simpler VVT systems work in the other cars in this class.
One thing I found interesting is that there are 17 different models for Toyotas, not including Lexus and Scion. Maybe they went to this many too fast?
Both the 3.3 and the 3.8 engines in the Azera are CVVT, whether it's on intake and exhaust, I don't know - maybe someone out there knows. They also incorporate a variably tuned cold air intake, and a 10.4:1 compression ratio which runs on 87 octane gas.
from what I've read the the Lambda 3.8 designed and built - in Alabama by Hyundai!. Just because HP or torque is similar does not make it the same engine - you surely don't think that Toyota 'stole' the 2GR from MB E350, do you? The specs. are also very close to identical. There is more than a passing relationship between Hyundai/Chrysler/Mitsubishi, however - and has been for years..
Anyone heard about such problem with Toyota's engine?
Today is Monday and looks like Toyota rep did not show up, but been told that they found crack in the engine block. :lemon:
Today is Monday and looks like Toyota rep did not show up, but been told that they found crack in the engine block."
Sorry to hear of your misfortune, but I am sure Toyota will make it as good as new. Being an Azera owner, I have not heard of any such problems with Hyundai engines.
Good luck.
Sorry to hear about your problems. Once you get it fixed, hopefully the matter will turn from frustration back to your original love of the car.
Toyota should make good on it. If I were them, I would be wondering how this got past quality control.
That is my second Avalon. My first one is '96 and still drivers as a champ for almost 12 years with 122,000 on it and I had no problem with that car at all, just regular stuff: tires, brakes. My teen daughter is driving that Avalon to school/work/around - nice car!
a statement without substantiation, unless of course, you know something that nobody else does. What Toyota DID have is a few 6 speed trannies (made in Japan :confuse: of all places) that got out of the factory with a badly installed snap ring which led to tranny failure in what was apparently a few hundred out of several hundred thousand built - and nothing to do with the engine at all. Additionally they have been fielding drivability complaints on both the 5 and 6 speed trannies relative to hesitation/slipping in actual operation, for which some software fix TSBs have been issued, but not a mechanical problem per se or a recall. What I believe
to be true: that consumer complaints on the operation of the new 6 speed auto is what led CR for example to remove its 'recommendation' and not engine problems (or physical tranny problems) of any sort, from the V6 Camry models specifically . If you know something more than this please enlighten us because the current model of the Avalon (which continues to improve its better than average rating) has also been 'improved' with the 6 speed- please - before I go out and buy another one.
Scbob does in fact know about this.
Do a search for sludge problems and you will find that his statement is true.
More than 1/2 of one percent (0.5) of total production of both the V6 and the 4 cylinder engines had this problem, and in some cases, the customers got stuck with the total costs of a complete engine replacement.
Combine that engine problem fact along with the transmission problems and you might understand why the Toyotas has been down rated.
That statement is not correct.
The issues were for cars produced from December 05, 2005 through 26, 2007.
A period of over fourteen months is not what anyone would call "only a few 06/07 Azeras."
That is unless you consider several thousand Azeras a "a few?"
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Remember Avalon used to have much better than average reliability. So improving on (or to?) better than average is less than what it used to be.
Jan. 2008 CR shows 83% Azera owner satisfaction vs. 80% for Avalon.
If I find a model from BMW, Lexus, MB which has an owner satisfaction less than 83% does that make it a less car than Azera.
I know why Azera generally has higher owner satisfaction but I am not going to go there...