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Mainstream Large Sedans Comparison

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Comments

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    You're right...there are intangibles that make a luxury car, a luxury car. However, from pictures I've seen and actually seeing the two in person at the car show. In comparison, the Genesis would be considered a luxury car compared to the G8. It's sorta like comparing the 300C to the Charger R/T.

    Personally, I feel both cars have a lot of potential for perspective buyers and it will boil down to what "type" of car fits a driver's personality. Those that like the Charger would more than likely look at the G8, those that prefer a 300...would look at the Genesis.
  • riker2riker2 Member Posts: 36
    I think to describe the Genesis as a "Blue Collar" car is inaccurate. The base model will start at just about $30,000 while a fully equipped model will sell for $40,000 plus.

    A base Chrysler 300 can be purchased for $22,000 after discounts. Now that's a blue collar price point.

    Those buying a loaded Genesis will in fact be white collar, and whether there will be enough of them to make the car successful is certainly an open question. But it's an important distinction that whatever one uses as a yardstick for perceived or real luxury, the criteria is met by the size, amenities and styling of the Genesis.

    When people discuss the apples and oranges comparisons between past Hyundai products to premium brands, everything from horsepower, styling, available options and the quality of materials told the tale. No, the XG350 wasn't a luxury car, let alone a Camry equal. No, the Vera Cruz is not in the same league as the Lexus.

    But once you start accumulating Navigation systems with 8 inch screens, 370 HP V8's, heated and ventilated seats, automatic rear sunshades, active front headlights and back up cameras, not to mention a 500 watt 17 speaker lexicon sound system, it becomes a little more difficult to apply a wannabe moniker to the car.

    The blandness of the design might matter if the Lexus 460, Acura RL or failed Infiniti Q weren't themselves anonymous designs. The sticking point is merely the name Hyundai, and, of course the way the car actually drives and performs when it's released.

    If the cabin feel, power, suspension and quality of the vehicle actually approaches that of prestige nameplates when it's actually tested and driven, won't the Genesis be classified as a luxury vehicle? And doesn't the mere designation as such in CR, Edmunds and all of the car magazines make it so?

    I think there's a bit of denial in dismissing what this car has to offer, and what its appeal will be to the car shopper who has money but no steadfast allegiance to brand.

    How many of us know people with great means who drive around in an Avalon, 300C or MDX. I do. And those people could all be driving 460's, S500's and Cayenne's without dipping into their trusts.

    I'm not saying that there are a limitless supply of these types of brand insensitive buyers. But if Hyundai only needs to sell 30,000 cars a year, don't be surprised if they succeed. And don't be surprised to see them pull up to the valet at the country club.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    So...you're trying to tell me that a blue-collar worker can't afford a vehicle costing in the mid-$30K's???

    Based on your example, that would explain why the 300 is called the ghetto Bentley in these parts!!! You're also saying that the Azera, Maxima, Avalon and other cars in this segment are only attainable (in fully loaded, top of the line mode) to white-collar types.

    A loaded top of the line Genesis is reportedly going to sell for less than $40K, why would you only see white-collar types in it? I'm far from white-collar and the other vehicle I own is a 2007 Outlook XR AWD.

    I agree with what you're saying in some of the things that make a luxury car, a luxury car and the Genesis seemingly would hit the nail on the head based on reported features listed for the car. The argument that some are making is that while it will be a luxury car, it won't be the luxury that MB, Infiniti, Lexus or BMW offers you, but...it'll be more luxury than most cars can offer at the price point that the Genesis occupies.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    what makes the GT-R an awesome car? Why is the S2000 the only good car that Honda makes
    - the answer is 'driving dynamics' which is an optimal combination of power/handling/braking together with things like balance and feel all tied together in a single car. BMWs almost always have such things (they are all 50-50 BTW), FWD cars in general and all the cars in this group, don't. Few people ever experience it to any degree and even fewer appreciate it. And those that truly do appreciate it - don't mind spending 60 large (or more) to get it.
    To compare a LS (a relatively 'soft' car) which does have at least some reasonable driving dynamics to an Azera, which doesn't, is therefore a joke. We are talking about a completely different level of automobile here and not necessarily that the Azera is bad - it just is what it is - just like the other cars in this group are what they are.
  • riker2riker2 Member Posts: 36
    I'm not saying that blue collar workers can't afford an expensive car. Real car enthusiasts will pay more for a quality automobile regardless of their income. But no, most blue collar workers are not going to spend in excess of 40 grand on a car, particularly in a multi-car household. I was on jury duty several weeks ago and while we were sitting around we talked about our cars. 10 of the 12 people drove cars that ranged in price from 15 to 22 thousand dollars. They were all blue collar workers.

    And I'm not saying that an Azera, Maxima, Avalon and other cars aren't affordable to that group. My point was that there are people who can easily affford a LOT more car who choose to drive mid-price vehicles.

    Also, a loaded Genesis will cost more than 40 grand.

    And whoever happens to be driving around in a new 300 SRT8 with custom wheels and interior mods has an income in excess of blue collar wages, unless they're living in it.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    it takes awhile - news and reviews of all these high mileage Azeras along with corresponding testimonials from loving owners is exactly how Honda and Toyota have gotten to where they are today. Remember the Toyotas of the late 60s? Junk. 20-25 years later a completely different story. Lexus succeeded, in large part, because Toyota was already thought to be building better cars before the first LS hit the streets. The fact that they met expectations didn't hurt either. I seriously doubt that anybody with an ounce of gray matter could believe Chevy's 'longest lasting' truck claims and put that kind of thing on the same level as trying to convince me that a silly Sonata is even 1/3 of the car that a 528/530/535 is.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Agreed, for the most part. Hyundai is on the same path as other automakers having had to endure the tough times.

    It takes time, it takes a lot of time. Just like how Toyota went from junk to the brand it projects today, Hyundai has been working on the same thing. I would say with confidence Hyundai's mass revamp and commitment to the turn around is nothing short of amazing. The products speak for themselves.

    Bottom line, Hyundai will have to continue the progress we see almost on a daily basis. The skepticism is still high, however, among the consumers, which is unfortunate. In that sense, no matter how great the product, how effective the marketing, it means nothing if there is no return, if consumers aren't even putting it on the shopping list in the first place. On the flip side, Toyota will sell boatloads of cars without any marketing, and that's where Hyundai should strive for.

    It will take time but Hyundai's in the right direction and moving up amazingly fast.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    A few things,

    According to a good source, a loaded Hyundai Genesis V8 will not reach more than $40K in the US. We'll see when pricing is annouced.

    RE: G8 vs. Genesis, while I like both, the G8 is hardly comparable to the Genesis in terms of luxury/premium features, in the sense G8 falls well short. Navigation, bluetooth, memery seats are just the start of the ommissions. Still, this is not dis on the G8, but rather how amazing of a value the Genesis is. Someone challenged others in another forum to find a car that would offer so much for so little (which similar arguments can be made on other Hyundai products), he's right, no you really can't produce such vehicle for comparison.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    On a lighter note, here is an article about some comments made by some Ford execs basically admitting that the Taurus needs some serious design help.

    D’oh! Ford execs compare Taurus, Homer Simpson ;)
  • riker2riker2 Member Posts: 36
    "I'm far from white-collar and the other vehicle I own is a 2007 Outlook XR AWD."

    And that makes perfect sense. If you were a white collar customer you would have purchased a loaded Enclave. And don't tell me you liked the lines of the Outlook better. GM knows how to tap the appropriate consumer. You purchased the sensible vehicle that was a near twin to what is considered the more upscale version for practically the same money.

    The Outlook felt comfortable and the Enclave seemed overdone. Those distinctions are what drive design, and segmenting to different classes of buyers.
  • cdmuilecdmuile Member Posts: 152
    Boy, that post says loads about our jury selection process. G** help us!
  • riker2riker2 Member Posts: 36
    "Boy, that post says loads about our jury selection process. G** help us! "

    Tell me about it! It was a criminal trial that lasted a WEEK! I almost lost my mind. My respect for the justice system was severely tested in ways that I never expected.

    I was depressed for days after it was over.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    A "blue collar" (quotes added for emphasis) worker at my home bemoaned the issues he was having with his $50K certified Porsche, no he was not living in it. You can't judge a book by it's cover.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Funny, but there is nobody on this forum (U.S. based) that has had the pleasure of driving a GT-R as it hasn't even hit show-rooms yet!!! I saw one at the car show and it wasn't even a U.S. spec model, it was a right-hand driver...which means they were showing the Japanese-spec model. At any rate, the Skyline (which the GT-R is supposed to be) is a remarkable car.

    Now...once again, NOBODY has compared the driving dynamics of the Azera to the LS. Where in the world are you getting this stuff from??? :confuse:
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...I don't know what your sources are, but there is NOTHING that has been printed to say the Genesis OR the G8 will cost over $40K fully loaded. At best...either car in V-8 form, fully loaded should come in no higher than $37K.

    A loaded Genesis will cost more than $40K AFTER financing.

    Actually...it's not the SRT-8's you see a lot of that are rimmed up and modded out, it's the 300C. The SRT-8, fully loaded...starts out over $40K MSRP, so you figure once you load it up...it'll be just northward of $40K after you make your best deal. THAT...my friend is a jump above what the Genesis and the G8 will be going for. The Genesis and G8 are direct comeptitors with the 300 Touring/Charger SXT up to the 300C/Charger R/T...NOT the SRT-8 variants. The SRT-8 variants are pumping out in excesss of 400 hp.

    As far as blue-collar types having a car such as a 300/Charger, Maxima, Avalon or Azera that has wheels and aftermarket mods...doesn't mean they have an income in excess of blue-collar wages, it just means they either work a 2nd job or have a side gig like myself. There are various levels of blue-collar workers from sanitation technicians all the way up to IT specialists. So when you say blue-collar workers that only owned cars that ranged from $15-22K...what line of work were they in? I have many blue-collar worker friends...one owns a 2003 Avalanche, 2007 Bug and a 2008 Jeep Wrangler. Another buddy owns a 2006 Ford Expedition and a 2005 Magnum R/T. Another one...owns a 2006 Impala LT and a 2005 Pacifica. Oh...and ALL are home owners as well.

    It's ridiculous for you to make a statement of what certain types should be able to afford when you really don't know. You made the statement that they won't pay in excess of $40K for a car, on that I agree...and every car we've talked about in this forum, including the Genesis and G8 (in V-8 form) are included. The only ones that are excluded are the SRT-8 variants of any Mopar product.
  • hjc1hjc1 Member Posts: 183
    Not too long ago I viewed a program on History channel. They featured Hyundai as a company that is very aggressive in all aspects of business. Hyundai builds ocean going vessels and took that market away from the rest of the world by building quality ships fast at a lower cost. Hyundai is into everything from electronics to ships...... when they want a market they get it. It will not surprise me if they make the Genesis a success in the U.S. market. When they make up their mind they go for it. Hyundai finished 2007 selling almost a half a million cars in the U.S. All this without having a major name brand. This company worry's Toyota and Honda
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Yeah...I saw that too, Hyundai has been in business for decades. Definitely successful in the industrial arena.

    It's already been stated by a Toyota insider that they are looking over their shoulder concerning Hyundai.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Hyundai builds ocean going vessels and took that market away from the rest of the world by building quality ships
    yep there is a extremely large coastal facility outside of Ulsan, Korea, that does everything from making pipe and other steel fabrications, car and ship manufacture etc. - employs many many people many of whom live in Co. built apartments on site. Been there - worked there.
    FYI and only because it may also have something to do with Hyundai's position in the automobile business - Hyundai DID NOT take away the shipbuiilding business from the rest of the world - they BOUGHT it. The South Korean government back in the 70s and 80s SUBSIDIZED that industry they wished to be 'competitive 'in - and may still . Using a particular example I'm familiar with they were low bidder on a $100 million dollar shipyard type project by ONLY $50 million! But, you see, they didn't care at the time how much money they might be losing - they were learning ">to build ships and the government was covering any losses. This type of thing, in a multitude of industries, has been going on for many many years - the point really being that 'low bidders' aren't really selling anything - they are 'buying it' and quality has little to do with any buying decisions. Since then though, many of those ships are not built in Korea anymore (but rather in Europe and the US) simply because the ship buyers soon understood that the $50 million 'saved' wasn't 'saved' at all. Think there are likely some parallels here with the auto industry.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    With the way Hyundai began in the auto industry, I would agree with that line of thinking. However, I think they've learned their lesson and are finally learning how to step up...only time will tell.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    when I was over there - the Car they produced was called a 'Pony' and was usually LPG powered which meant NO trunk. The car looked a lot like what became the Excel in this country - and was naturally a piece of junk (and a deathtrap) . And yes, things have sure changed - that was almost 25 years ago. The Koreans are - a remarkable people.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    When I first started reading your post, I remembered that the Pony over there was the Exel over here.

    I laugh because I had an '87 Excel (4 dr. sedan). I bought it off a friend and when I got it, it had over 150K miles. Okay, stop laughing...seriously...the car was still running...and running well I might add. I did have to replace the transmission (a manual one at that). I paid a total of $500 for the part and labor to get it done. When the car was finally totalled, it had just over 230K miles on it. I was mad, I wanted to ship it to Hyundai's Hall of Fame! LOL

    I actually bought that car out of necessity for something cheap to get me around at the time. The second time I bought Hyundai ('02 Sonata), it was out of need for a decent car for a good price. Having just totalled my '96 Camry...I was looking at the '02 Camry, but they wanted $23K for the one I wanted. A buddy of mine mentioned the Sonata, I hestitantly went to look at it...test drove it (had a similar feel to the Camry I just had). Sat at the table and the price for the Sonata, comparably equipped to the Camry I wanted...$16,800. It was kinda hard to walk away from that. I drove it with a skeptical attitude the 1st 6 months, but after that...it really made me forget all about the Camry I had grown to love. 4 years and 105K miles...I was left rather impressed with it. So when the Azera came out and I need a car with more room as my girls were now growing taller...the only skepticism I had was that it was a first model year car I was buying. I guess this is one case where buying the first year seemed to be the best move...so far. Maybe the '08 will see an upswing on it's reliablity ratings.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    OK can't stop laughing - an '87 Excel with 230k - a contradiction in terms. :)
    The Excel, perhaps unfortunately, had a 10 yr + run - is largely responsible for that Korean' car reputation that Hyundai/Kia fights every day. The Daewoos etc. didn't help that either. A very good 'white collar' friend of mine that views the automobile as an appliance and a 'necessary evil' has been driving an Elantra for a number of years now and although he doesn't accumulate many miles has not had any major problems with it TMK, only hardware falling off. The Elantra a vast improvement over those Excels. And yes, he could certainly afford to drive that 70k Lexus - if he wanted.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    luxury/premium features, in the sense G8 falls well short
    of course it will, FWIU MSRP for the V8 G8 is in the lower - mid 30's so therefore it should be substantially cheaper as well.. Imagine that, something 'cheaper' than a Hyundai - oops, I think you can buy a Taurus these days cheaper than an Azera. Maybe Hyundai is making some progress after all.
  • cdmuilecdmuile Member Posts: 152
    I recently read an article on the exploding demand from the worlds military procurement people for submarines, yes, submarines. And.....they aren't buying from Europe, South America, North America, but Asia. And not Japan. I guess Hyundai built subs aren't affected by 040,041 strut assembly problems.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    I know plenty of "blue collar" workers who make better money than their "white collar" counterparts, and have better benefits to boot. You are spot on, you can't judge a book by its cover. My neighbor is a union plumber, and even though I have a well-paying "white collar" executive job, I don't come close to making what he makes - plus, he's on target to retire at age 50. Here's another example of perception: I've personally witnessed farmers in their bib overhauls pay cash for Dodge Ram 3500 3/4 ton 4X4 pick-ups with the Cummins diesel option - typically, $45K to $55K, and not even blink an eye.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    I have a theory on Hyundai's poor reliability image in the early years, although it's certainly not a politically correct one. It would be very interesting to research the socio-economic demographics of Excel, and other early Hyundai model owners. Why? I'll bet you will uncover an overwhelming statistic: lack of preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance costs money, and the majority of those who purchased anything Hyundai in the early years basically had no money, or very little thereof. Hyundai was their only economic choice, other than buying a questionable used car. By-the-book preventive maintenance was most likely not followed.

    Any car which is not given proper preventive maintenance is bound to have problems and fail, regardless of manufacturer. You can't drive a Honda or Toyota for 200K without preventive maintenance. Conversely, an Excel could easily reach over 200K with proper maintenance.

    Don't laugh at the South Korean manufacturers - to do so would be a grave mistake. Remember, Detroit, and most American consumers, first laughed at anything Japanese through the '50 and the '60s. For those of you with an electronics interest, which companies are leading the way in microcircuit designs these days - not the Japanese, but LG Electronics (Lucky-Goldstar) and Samsung from South Korea. In manufacturing circles, both LG and Samsung provide many of the components used in the latest designs.

    It's my feeling the Genesis will change how auto consumers view Hyundai. It's just a gut feeling, but one honed on observing the domestic and import automobile market, and consumer's perceptions, since 1955.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,895
    I think one of the main things Hyundai needs is time. Continue to build good reliable vehicles and soldier on. As several others have said Toy/Hon/Nis wasn't built in a day and the domestics didn't get into the predicament they are in overnight either.

    IMO Hyundai needs to focus less on Azera and Genesis and much more on Sonata and Elantra. They are the volume models. Make people want the car, raise transaction prices (i.e. no rebates), then comes higher resale. At that point the Japan big 3 better look out.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    More like an oxymoron! LOL It was a rarity indeed!
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Fantastic!!

    #1:
    http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/Video_Clips/Super_Bowl_Ad_1/Video_2604.asp-

    #2:
    http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/Video_Clips/Super_Bowl_Ad_2/Video_2600.asp-
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Go ahead, Captain...talk about how Hyundai is comparing the Genesis to the BMW, MB and Lexus simply because they mentioned them in the ads.

    "Spacious as the Mercedes S-Class, yet priced like a C-Class."

    "...we're pretty sure that Mercedes, BMW and Lexus aren't gonna like it very much."

    "More spacious than a BMW 7-Series. Priced like a 3-Series."

    So I guess they're saying, the Genesis is expected to perform like any of the above mentioned vehicles, right?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Again, a good car with stupid commercials from Hyundai.

    What's new?
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    ROTFL
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Again, a good car with stupid commercials from Hyundai.

    What's new?

    Wouldn't expect anything less...

    Anyway, both ads are subtle, yet has the confident tone delivering the right message for the product. I especially like when Jeff Bridges says "right about now, you are probably expecting some big twists or something, well, here it is (cues the Hyundai logo). Get it? Get the twist?

    From a marketing standpoint (and of course product), the substance is there and those ads get the mark.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    and that wouldn't be an attempt by Hyundai to get their brand thought of by those same people that might consider those brands 'that won't like it'?
    This is exactly what I've been saying all along and is a ridiculous assumption on Hyundai's part. Those S and C class buyer, those 3 and 7 series buyers couldn't' give damn about something with a Hyundai badge - even if it is what Hyundai would like it to be. I've said before that it won't be able to sell this way, and Hyundai is seriously overestimating their public perceptions. It is still a 'Korean' car and that is not a good thing to be. I guess we'll see - those (2) 30 second ads likely set them back a few million - hope it sells enough cars to pay for it.
  • autokritikerautokritiker Member Posts: 65
    There will be people that laugh at the commercial and call it ridiculous. There will also be people that see it as a bold move, and they will actually think about it.

    It is still a 'Korean' car and that is not a good thing to be.

    Not everyone shares that opinion. How about all the Hyundai owners who took a chance and bought a Hyundai at some point over past 10 years? I don't regret it one bit, and I know I'm not alone.

    There's no need to constantly preach negativity about something, unless one wants that "something" to fail.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    There's no need to constantly preach negativity about something, unless one wants that "something" to fail.

    It's called reality check.
  • autokritikerautokritiker Member Posts: 65
    Thanks, but the "reality check" (or opinion) isn't necessary. Here's my reality: I have an '01 Hyundai with over 160K miles that has never given me any problems. I've thought about getting a new car for months, but my car still runs so well it's hard to justify spending the money.

    When I do get a new car, I'll save thousands of dollars, again, by getting another Hyundai that I'll keep another 8+ years. Thank you very much.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I understand the conversation from cap...it's my conversation also. (I thought this was an open forum, all opinions are welcome, even unfavorable ones :) ) It has nothing to do with the 'H' on the hood, it has to do with the distrust for the overall vehicle lineup and some of the issues people I know have had with these cars. If you read these forums, Hyundai is not the only manufacturer (read: other countries) with people distrusting the lineup.

    The fact you believe you save money when you get your next car is as valid an opinion as someone who doesn't get a Hyundai and their belief is the money is well spent and they got what they paid for.

    I have experience with high age, high mileage cars, and it's not pretty. I've driven in "like new" cars with a lot of mileage and was glad to escape with my life.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    those (2) 30 second ads likely set them back a few million

    I just saw a news article that a 30 second ad in the game goes for $2.7 million. :cry:

    I also read an article today that Fox is completely sold out of ads for the Superbowl and pre-game and that they are pulling in somewhere around $260 million! :surprise:
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 4836: Super Bowl videos

    Video # 2, showing the logo H on the truck...big mistake and the kiss of death.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    You might want to look again. The disclaimer on the ads says Korean model shown.

    "big mistake and the kiss of death" - right :sick:
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    why must a simple comment alluding to what is generally true - the autobuyer's distrust or attitude about Korean cars - in general - be taken so personally. Heck I don't believe that 'Korean cars are crap' myself - but I guarantee you if that if you poll (it is the season for that ;) ) any random sampling of automobile owners and ask them in a simple one word association test : Hyundai (if they've heard of it) = cheap and words like Toyota and Honda = good. Didn't say it was fair or that it even had any current factual basis either.
    Did say that Hyundai does have a checkered past, however, and don't believe that can really be argued. Therein is the problem - people have long memories. Any company that happens to have a Korean name should be having trouble selling $40k automobiles (isn't this the reason for the Azera's slow sales @$30k stickers?) and especially when they have the 'Chutzpah' to be comparing that car to cars that have long been the best you can buy and do happen to cost twice or three times as much. Tell the world that the Genesis is a 'better' car or a 'better' value than a G8 or a 300 or even a Nissan/Toyota and maybe people listen. Putting it on the level as what these ads attempt to do is laughable, is too big a step up IMO - even if it proves to have some foundation.
    And BTW as Hyundai, in this case, can start to accumulate more owners like you that have had good experiences then the faster this changes. In the immediate future, maybe those buyers of the 300 and G8s will 'discover' the Genesis and Hyundai will sell all they can make but there still won't be a whole lot of BMW/MB/Lexus/Infiniti owners (or shoppers) at Hyundai dealers.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Please, enlighten us with your vision for the Genesis's Super Bowl ads. We'd better be more impressed than Hyundai's tagline - introducing the 375hp Genesis

    Keep in mind, the general public is not as versed as we do in and about the automotive industry, so when they see the caliber of a car like the Genesis during the Super Bowl, they wouldn't expect it from Hyundai, and that's the "crazy big twist" referred to in the ad (which was very clever). It has to start somewhere, and for the Genesis, fittingly named also, is a new beginning to propel Hyundai in reach of new levels.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    it is after all, the 'unenlightened general public' that buys most of the cars - isn't it? In terms of what I think, which is certainly unimportant, I believe that Hyundai's best approach in any attempt to go 'upscale' (long term) would have been to establish another brand name and probably even a separate dealer network (if they intend on coming out with more Genesis type products) . If they simply would've called the Genesis something other than Hyundai but then followed the ad with a 'visit your local Hyundai dealer' - it might work a bit better but that is still not what has been proven to work in the past (Lexus/Infiniti) and may have been self-defeating because Hyundai dealers are not thought to be 'premium' dealers either.
    The car market is simply not ready to accept Hyundai as a 'premium' brand IMO and Hyundai does not have the same sort of market 'presence' as Toyota (or even Nissan) had back in the 80s which is why I believe that the Genesis will be a difficult 'sell'.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    Captain...once again, you just fail to get it.

    It is merely a reference used. Mercedes is one car company that is looked at as a top make in the industry and a lot of folks know about them. Almost everyone knows that the S-Class is the flagship and that they are sizable cars. They also know the C-Class is the entry level for Benz. So to say you can get a car with the size of an S-Class and only pay what you would for a C-Class...that's saying a lot.

    Same thing using the 7 & 3-Series Beemers. It's merely a reference. Nobody is saying that potential Benz and Beemer buyers would give a damn. You my friend are looking and digging too deep in all this...seriously.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I'm with cap on this. Maybe the commercials are off.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    OK, OK - these ads mean nothing and what they talk about is not what they are talking about :confuse:
    In any case, any successful effort that Hyundai might be able to make to improve its image is to the logical benefit of all Hyundai owners - if it works its called better resale values. Perhaps it should be you (somebody that invested in an Azera) that should be more interested in how these ads are perceived.
    Interestingly I went over to the 'Luxury Lounge' forum and did a search for anybody talking about the Genesis or Hyundai - 10000 posts and 0 matches. That, should tell you something.
  • dborthdborth Member Posts: 474
    Re 4848: You might want to look again. The disclaimer on the ads says Korean model shown.

    So what's your point, that the US version won't have the H on the trunk?
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Hyundai will have a challenge marketing the Genesis, even though I personally feel Hyundai's quality is far above that perceived by the average consumer. As one who's purchased European and Asian cars since 1968, and owned numerous new Hondas and Toyotas, I think I can judge quality when I see it.

    When I bought the first Honda 600 sedan sold east of the Mississippi, people thought I was absolutely and certifiably crazy. "Why would you buy such a piece of ****," they asked. My, how times have changed haven't they, where practically anything of Japanese manufacture is considered high quality. I knew that I had bought a decent vehicle at a great price, and could have cared less what people thought. The same was true a few years later I purchased a Civic CVCC. Great quality, and a low price.

    Circa 2008, it's deja vu "all over again." Those who can see beyond image and perception, and Japanese vehicles' historical reliability record know they're getting a quality product at a very reasonable price with Hyundai, just as Honda and Toyota previously. Forget about the Excel, those days are in the far distant past both literally and figuratively in terms of build quality.

    How many posters on this forum, or any Edmunds.com forum, consistently, and somewhat arrogantly, dismiss any and every Hyundai product as a sub-par product actually have owned one? And, more importantly from an objective comparative analysis point-of-view, how many negative Hyundai posters concurrently own a Hyundai, and any Japanese product? Our family owns a Honda, Hyundai, and a Toyota - all late models (Accord, Elantra, and Camry) respectively. The Hyundai has required fewer trips to the dealership for warranty issues than either the Honda or Toyota. And, moreover, the exterior seam and panel matching, and interior workmanship, is as good or better than either the Honda or Toyota.

    For those who buy a Hyundai today, they're getting an excellent product at a below market level price. If you keep a vehicle for 10 to 15 years, the depreciation argument become less of a factor. As Hyundai's marketing says "Think About It." For example, think about all of the Honda automatic transmission problems posted on Edmunds.com, and compare those numbers with automatic transmission problems in Hyundai's. Although many have experienced transmission problems with their Honda's, including my brother with his Ody at less than 50K miles, it's most interesting that Honda owner's don't seem to complain. On the other hand, if a Hyundai experiences a transmission problem at any mileage level, everyone's ready to say "I told you not to buy a Korean piece of ****!"

    I, for one, hope the mass market continues to view Hyundai as a sub-par product. It just means that I can continue to buy an excellent and high-quality product at far less than I would have to pay for a comparable Japanese brand.
  • allmet33allmet33 Member Posts: 3,557
    PREACH!!! Can I get an AMEN from the congregation!!!
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