Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
It ultimately comes down to personal preferences and priorities. If a large trunk and/or AWD for example outweigh other things then the Taurus could quite easily be a 'right' choice, if the power and feel of a Detroit V8 is paramount, then why not a Charger/300C,G8,Impala SS. Etc., etc, etc. Styling issues are usually quite subjective, but also can be THE deciding factor in some decisions. We could go on and on. The point is that each of these cars usually has something different to offer and how each of us values these distinctions (or lack of them) that makes for a decision that can't be 'wrong'.
Drive a Lucerne CXS. Same engine and transmission combination, IIRC. That 4 speed works beautifully when you have a giant V8 throwing gobs of torque its way.
At a Chicagoland Hyundai dealership, I received a quote 2 weeks ago for a 2008 Azera Limited with the Ultimate Package, MSRP $30.495 for $24,250 which included all applicable rebates, dealer incentives, the dealership discounting, and a $500 discount coupon I received directly from Hyundai. This figure does not include Tax, Title, and License of course, but a 2008 Azera Limited for less than $25K is a lot of car for that amount of money.
And, that was not some bait-and-switch verbal quote that would change when I showed up at the dealer, rather a written and firm quote from a salesperson I've dealt with before. Compare that to what you'd have to pay for an Avalon for the same level of amenities, and one is still ahead of the game, especially if the car is kept for a reasonable period of time.
After spending a week in a 2008 Azera Hertz rental, and comparing it to my uncle's Avalon in which I've had a lot of seat time, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Azera. I averaged 28MPG on a 1,600 mile trip, combined city and highway driving over a period of a week. Its exterior and interior fit and finish were equal to my uncle's Avalon, and overall was simply a very nice car. For anything near $25K, an Azera Limited Ultimate is simply a steal. With the 3.8L Lambda engine, I don't think it will take a back seat to any car in terms of long-term reliability either. Once Hyundai overcomes perceptions of those less well-informed consumers, all manufacturers need to worry, including well-respected Honda and Toyota.
That's where the rub is, I have a certain trepidation toward the product. Everyone has their own bias. You can't call the call buying public less informed, well you can but, you can call anyone anyname I suppose. People buy what they buy for their own reason.
That it may - but it is NOT because the engine is a V8, or FTM that it is any different than most of these V6s (except in gas consumption) - the Northstar, while it may be a fine engine, is similar to the better V6s in this group in that its torque/hp delivery characteristics are really not substantially different (same higher engine speeds). Bottom line if you are going to presume that the Nissan/Hyundai/Toyota V6s would have some sort of problem with an old fashioned 4 speed AT then so would the Northstar.
Consider the Northstar more of like one of these V6s with a cylinder added to each bank - but it certainly isn't throwing 'gobs of torque' anywhere and certainly not relative to the other V8s in this group.
the 07 Azera was downgraded by CR to 'merely' average reliabilties in their latest 08 Auto issue - both the Avalon, the the Lucerne V8 are rated higher (and improving) - this after the 06 Azera rated quite well. A disturbing trend IMO - truly 'new' cars like the Azera ought to improve with age not the other way around. The Sonata is doing very well but Hyundai's other products are unremarkable at best. All something that would indicate to me that the 'jury is still out' and perhaps just a bit early to declare folks that don't know about Hyundais current crop of products ' less well informed'.
Agreed, although I will have to resign myself to keeping the car a while longer than usual. $6500 off a $30k car while it sounds great, does nothing for those of us that tend to drive something different every 3 or 4 years and hurts those who did pay a little more 'reasonable' $26k for the car even more.
You and many others... this is the reason why the Azera struggles to sell and the reason the other "expensive" Hyundai soon to arrive could be in trouble. Perceptions are tough to change, not much different than many people having a tough time going back to the domesics.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
My guess would be an extremely small sample size. IIRC weren't Azeras few and far between in their first year?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
With the added benefit of more fuel consumption, more noise, same HP and a little extra torque.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
the intent really to inject a little realism where we don't see much.
CR gets over a million survey responses every year - it would seem to me that they might have been able to get a good 'handle' on the 06 Azera despite it being a realtively low volume automobile compared to some of the other cars in this group.
This is one of the very few times it seems buying the first model year was the better move to make!
Not sure what some folks list as reliabilty issues either. I can say I've had some minor issues, but nothing worth complaining about and it was more about quality than reliability. Stuff like the faux wood trim chipping on the steering wheel, hood release lever cable snapping and a defective seat-belt sensor causing my air bag light to come on. Oh...and the dash clock where only the top half of the numbers were illuminated. However...none of these things were issues that took my car off the road or required me to leave my car at the dealer overnight. In my opinion...very minor issues that I can actually live with. Especially since the dealer took care of them with no question or hassle.
I mentioned the Avalon oil leak which as I said was a poorly designed camshaft cover/oil transfer tube on the top of the engine - something I believe 'bite' several 05 Avalon buyers, but is accurately reflected in CRs 05 MY 'engine minor' category with a big ole black circle - as it should. The rest of the car though has been rock solid enough that the overall reliability stay high - something I can testify to. I do not know obviously if the reason for CRs rating change on the Azera is anything specific though or simply an accumulation of some less frequent problems.
For you, the problems you have had strike you as minor, as you correctly stated that none of them had left you stranded.
However, if you look at it from a different angle...
Steering wheel chipped...trip to the dealer for repair
Hood release cable...trip to the dealer
Seat-belt sensor...trip to the dealer
Clock malfunctions...trip to the dealer
If you can reasonably assume that each trip consumed a day, and someone had to arrange substitute transportation each time, then you can see how some might feel a bit different about reliability issues.
Don't get me wrong...I'm not suggesting anything here, other than things like this are like "beauty"...its all in the eye of the beholder.
No subsitute transportation was needed. If anything, I would take a couple hours off from my job, get to the dealership first thing in the morning and be one of the first ones seen. I'm usually at work before breakfast hours are over.
Then again, I can see the issue when the dealership isn't merely a few minutes away. In my case...I can drive 20 mins. to the dealer and then it's only a 10 min. drive to my office.
I also don't mind a break in my schedule to have an excuse to come in a little late.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Neither do I.... Unless my contributions to these forums are considered productive!
I think you see my point though, right?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Honestly...I don't see your point, if it needs to get done, make the time and get it done.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Now THAT would be a dangerous thing to do - to your check book!
It is how I ended up in my Azera though. Took the Sonata in to get the spark plugs done, alignment and transmission flush and fill. Saw the Azera on the showroom floor and that's all she wrote! :shades:
They bought it that day. My aunt did the same with her '97 CR-V EX to her '00 Odyssey EX. I was with her at the time, and showed her the cool "new" power doors on the Odyssey. She bought her gold EX Odyssey that day.
Would guess that a dealer salesperson assigned just to follow folks around that happen to be at the service dept. would do quite well for him/herself. Aaah, the allure of things that are shiny!
I have read in "stories from the sales frontlines" that some the sales people do in fact walk the service lane to see if any of their customers are there. It makes perfect sense, you don't always think of a new car when yours is running perfect and not costing you money.
even excluding the influence of the shorter time frames involved in leasing
I absolutely love leasing. I know many people disagree with it, but the fact that I can get into a new vehicle every three years is great. I never put brakes, tires, tranny flushes etc, or have to worry about selling or trading in a car. Considering I only put 10K a year on it just works for me.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
With the mileage I put on a car , leasing would never be an option for me.
Its hard to believe I am in the last year with my Avalon. If I had to pick my next one now I would say its a toss up between the new Max and Genesis. Both will be readily available by the time I am ready to lease my next one. However, if neither impresses me I don't know what to do. Decisions, decisions... I guess I could always get another Avalon, but then thats six years with basically the same car, unacceptable!
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
As it stands, the longest I've been in one car is 4 years. My desire is to stay in my Azera for longer than that. We'll see.
sure does keep your monthly out-of-pocket to a minimum. As you drive 10k/year it obviously can work for you - I drive closer to 25k - and although I can get a lease written for that - it quickly becomes too expensive. Have always thought that these 'program cars' coming off leases should be a good deal as well, low mileage and usually very well maintained simply because of the constraints within the lease itself.
Interestingly TCO numbers on a purchase and lease costs tend to run together - cars that happen to have high resale values (and lower TCOs) also tend to be less expensive to lease.
We actually have a place up here in Jersey called "Auto Lenders" that only sells off lease vehicles it buys from the banks. I don't know if they are in other parts of the country or not.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Believe me I do! Whatever I look at must have similar power and FE. There is no going back!
P.S. better stay away from the dealer when the Genesis arrives... you know you want one
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Oh...I DEFINITELY plan on taking one for a test spin. I do want one, but right now the voice of reason and logic is heavy in my ear. Now...should I get an early promotion at the job...that could very well change!
I think it's fair to say that except for a few high-end Euros like the 335, XF, and E Class the Northstar in the DTS has "gobs" more torque than most import V6 sedans.
It may not compete with the V8s, but it handles the sixes just fine.
As far as V8s go it does not produce 'gobs of torque' simply because it is of the same DOHC design as those V6s. Not to diss the Northstar because it is likely one of the best V8s that 'Detroit' has ever produced - but if it is stump pulling torque you want then let's make the engine even bigger, add some pushrods, increase that 'stroke'. etc. and that will then get you that max torque down where you want it - all at the expense of FE which is where the even the Northstar doesn't handle the sixes 'just fine'.
If GM can ever get around to replacing that tired old 3.8 in the Lucerne with their more contemporary and efficient HF3.6 there will be no reason for the Northstar anymore - especially in these days of $4 gas.
Since the Northstar in the DTS does not have CVVT, like the V6s do, the torque spread is not as wide either.
A railroad locomotive has " gobs " of torque, too, but lacks the ability to change speeds quickly.
Roland